[Unwritten Rules of Conclave]

I think I'm just going to rank up, y'all are just making me feel bad at this point. I think I am toxic.

[Unwritten Rules of Conclave]

5 hours ago, -Dice- said:

I try playing with people better than me often, being in Oriental Asteri i am among best players in Asia so in skill term i am like RC player to them even if i can go in pub match and wipe the floor, but in our matches i never see them even try to go for Oro. If it floats to us than ok but if not then no one cares because kills matter more.

It is, i come from UT4 and no one will kill afk player as @Heckzu say there is no merit in it, also it is rude since there is sense of sportsmanship to a certain extent in every PvP game.

Spam of any kind is annoying especially when the spam is op and takes little to no effort. I can understand if its the only way unskilled player can manage to get kill among good player, i say nothing if that is case but it is not what i expect from people with aim. I only get upset if good players abuse ability(not like i say anything even then but i just target them more) but for other normal players all i say is "You will hold yourself back if you spam the 4 key and not use your aim", that is all.

You wonder why unskilled player stays unskilled? They use ability as it give easy kill here and now, but they don't think in long term so they are same as they were in day one, no improvement and the fault is on experienced players?

You're one of them, I find it funny how you say you are not good enough player so you stay inside RC but still get stomped sometimes and still have a k/d that is over 2.0, even i only have 1.6 k/d, because of players like you exploiting things k/d means nothing in term of skill, farm newpayers for high k/d. I get stomped, i get barely 1/1 k/d when i fight some in my clan, i rarely get positive k/d when fighting against CNC members in my clan.

You have a 2.0+ k/d and you play in RC among the new players, you can't claim to get stomped and even if you do then you clearly don't get stomped as often as you make it seem.

If you are good enough to leave RC/have enough kills to leave RC then you're not new. Same way how you are not new, but as mentioned there is difference between killing people in newbie zone and people in normal zone. You will not face people playing their first match in normal zone. Playing against most in RC is like shooting afk players, because they mess around try things to see what does what and how things work, to get a sense of how things work, and you are going around killing those people among others who rather not face opponents who are equal to them or better so instead stay in newbie zone to feel mighty.

What exactly is being farmed, if player is around long enough to get good in Conclave then they have all rewards so clearly they do not care about rewards, similarly you are not ranking up to stay in mode meant for new players so you do not care about rewards either. It is deathmatch, you are against all so get most kills, it's wrong to try and do well? are we at fault here for performing as best as we can?

If you do not have the aim to counter good players then DE offers many imbalanced abilities in game with lot of energy for people to kill these good players with no effort, i remember getting kill from other side of wall along with 3 more people by frost 4, 4 people dead, full hp/shield to 0 with press of 1 button from other side of wall. So you can not say players are fully helpless. Many more frame out their that can do it, Nezha 4 can do it too but faster than frost.

I do not know if they get account ban but i know they get reputation ban, i reported farmers before and i know DE took action because i get friend request from one of them with a note with very unkind words. You try defending the PvE players who farm but i have seen many PvE players be toxic and unkind to me than any PvP players since i started to play this game.

My experience so far is, PvE player say i hack or farm them or just acts blatantly rude(so i don't play public match much anymore) but PvP player help me understand how game works and even give me mods for PvP as well as a clan to belong in. So it is very difficult for me to understand why you are trying to defend toxic players who do not want to play but farm for rep.

Warframe is kind to such players if anything, in any other PvP game you get account ban no question asked for "farming", it is not uncommon in other game for people to "farm" which is called statistics padding and it is not uncommon for these players to lose their accounts. It is no different than fixing a match but only here you do not get paid.

You don't seem to have much to add other than your distaste for my actions in this game. Which I find sad considering it's only a casual game. And just a game at that.

The point of this post is to question why people (like you) feel the need to tell others how to play a video game. Just like the discussion with .Zel turned into on my last topic. Only difference is we stopped and we added each other in game and have no hard feelings. It's just a game, it's whatever. I don't understand why people care so passionately about something that's just supposed to be a fun past time. You're not getting paid you're just playing for fun yet people care so much about something they'll get nothing out of other than fun. I just don't play to be a top tier sweaty player. Trying hard in video games isn't what's fun to me. Just playing is fun to me. Something you don't seem to understand so you bash. Sorry I don't care about ranking up to get stupid skins and that sydana everyone worships, I guess.

[Unwritten Rules of Conclave]

6 hours ago, Heckzu said:

Conclave isn't very competitive for the most part. There is no player ranking system and personal K:D ratio is meaningless.

I don't think most Conclave regulars even care about Oro stealing.

"Just use VOIP". Ha. This is possibly the first time I've ever seen someone say that in Warframe.

There's no merit to killing an AFK player. You're not getting any better by hitting an AFK player, and in most cases that 1 Oro won't make a difference between winning and losing.

Many abilities are brain dead easy to use which makes them crutches. No one likes people who rely on crutches.

Uhhhh...does it look like we have a competitive ranked mode? Out-of-RC is still "casual", it's just that some players have toned their skills so well that they require little to no effort to do the same things it takes less skilled players to pull off.

Regardless of what game it is, you can still get clubbed in 'Casual Mode'. Same applies to Conclave. But there's a huge difference between 'clubbing in casual' and 'clubbing in the newbie area'.

There's no server browsing or anything like that, so how does someone explicitly take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC? They may fight Dragons of Teshin more often than newbies.

Actual AFK standing farming is a bannable offense which is enforced by DE.

Well, Conclave isn't meant to be competitive, it's an imbalanced mode with more casual aspects. However, many players who stick with it til they're good enough to play out of RC take it seriously and play competitively. The discord even holds tournaments. You can't tell me it's not an overly sweaty experience when PvE players are so put off by ranking up in Conclave because of the sweaty players that farm them (I was referring to PvE or more casual players when I said farming occurs outside of RC, there's MR10+ PvE players with PvP skills on par with MR2's - MR really means nothing in terms of skill)

I wouldn't have guessed that regulars don't care about oro/kill stealing. I constantly see players complaining about it in FFA.

I completely believe that I'm the first you've seen to suggest using VOIP in this game, lol.

As far as reasons to not kill an AFK player go, that's a decent enough one, I guess it's just not a common view in most other PvP games.

I've got no problem with people using crutches in a game that's meant to be casual. If it's a casual game who cares how people play it? But as I said, many players don't treat it as casually as I do. Most abilities are predictable and avoidable anyway ... If an excal is charging you, chances are he's going to try to impair you, if you even see a frost that's a dead giveaway that guy is going to camp and spam his bubble, if a rhino is becoming more aggressive he's probably got iron skin ready, etc. It's really only a crutch if you allow it to be. But that's just my take on it.

I never said we have a competitive playlist, and yeah non-RC is still casual itself, but most of the small playerbase is not.

some players have toned their skills so well that they require little to no effort to do the same things it takes less skilled players to pull off

Truthfully, that just sounds like a more dismissive way of saying they're sweaty.

I agree, you can get destroyed in casual mode in any game, but RC isn't exactly exclusively a noob area. Though meant to be. There's players of all skill levels in it. It's essentially non-RC with a wider skill gap. You'll see 2.0 K/D players as often as 0.50 K/D players, along with sprinkles of 2.5+ K/D players. And you'll see MR2-4's with PvP skills you'd expect from MR10's. Just because they're lower MR doesn't mean they're bad players. Some players are more naturally skilled than others or have more PvP experience prior to playing Warframe's PvP.

Players can easily take advantage of low skilled players outside of RC. You don't have an equal chance playing the dragons over noobs because noobs outnumber the dragons tenfold. You're always matched with players far above you in skill, far below, and anywhere in between, as I said before. Matches are usually filled with 1-2 dominant players, 1-2 decent players, and the rest being below decent.

So scoreboards tend to look something like this for example:

1st: 28-5

2nd: 24-7

3rd: 14-11

4th: 12-16

5th: 8-14

6th: 5-12

7th: 4-9

8th: 2-6

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a player banned for that. I rarely see DE ban players from PvP unless someone's blatantly hacking. They'd have to ban a decent chunk of the already small community if that rule was strictly enforced. But I suppose bans are more of the community's responsibility, because I don't expect DE to ban players unless they're being reported by others. I really don't see much of a problem with farming, though, because the way I see it near all of us get farmed at the start until we improve and can better defend ourselves, the game has a high skill gap it is what it is. As long as nobody is blatantly cheating nothing much bothers me in casual games. Cheating is just unacceptable in any PvP game.

[Unwritten Rules of Conclave]

[WARNING]

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - RELAX, DON'T GET UPSET, WE'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS.

 

I know this is going to be a sensitive subject for players, and I'll probably get some negative comments because I have unpopular opinions about this game and it's community. I welcome different opinions, but much of Warframe's community do not share the same appreciation for different views (unsurprisingly - not many people do). That said, lets get into the topic. Why is the community expected to follow these unwritten rules or they're considered toxic? How did these rules come to be? Some phony sense of honor vets have put in place to make themselves feel better about stomping casual and PvE players trying to climb through the ranks? Near everything they're against is widely accepted across many other PvP games. Kill stealing, AFK kills, abilities, casual play, farming, etc.

Some examples:

No stealing oro in FFA - Why? It's FFA. They're your opponents. It also adds more depth and challenge to the gameplay. But for whatever reason those who steal oro or kills are considered toxic.

No killing AFK or typing players - Why? That's the consequence of leaving your keyboard (or controller) during an ongoing match, or choosing to stop and type rather than play. Just use VOIP if you want to communicate and not get killed, the game does have it, despite it being neglected.

No using abilities excessively - This one isn't necessarily a rule that players follow, but something I see a lot of players complain about as if it's wrong to utilize your frames abilities when you can. Abilities are a huge part of the game in both PvE and PvP, and that's not changing anytime soon. I'm assuming people are against ability spam because they see abilities as a crutch and think PvP should be more focused on gunplay and movement. But abilities can be countered and everyone has there own abilities to utilize as well. I know impair and knockdown spam is annoying but it's fair play and easily avoidable.

No playing RC after 1K kills (I know, I'm going to get a lot of hate for this one) - If a player wants a more casual approach to PvP, so be it. Playing outside of RC is an undeniably competitive and sweaty experience and not every player that enjoys PvP is looking for that. This is why many games have separate casual and competitive playlists. Not everyone is looking at maxing out their potential skill in a game, some just enjoy playing. As long as we don't have a dedicated casual playlist, RC is as close as public matches will get for casual players. Yes, farming is a problem in RC and looked down upon, but there's farmers outside of RC as well that take advantage of low skilled players fresh out of RC. It's just how it works with the matchmaking system we have in this game with a huge skill gap. You'll always be matched with players far above you, far below you, and anywhere in between.

No farming - As stated above, players of all skill levels are put in the same match because of PvP's low playerbase and because we have no skill based matchmaking system. So it makes little sense to be against farming. There is always players better than you, worse than you, and more or less somewhere near your skill level in every match you'll play publicly. Unless you're top of the food chain, you'll potentially be stat fodder for someone far better than you. We all start out getting farmed by players who've invested more time into PvP than us, until we put in the time and gain enough skill to better defend ourselves, then we farm players under us until they put the time in to gain more skill better defend themselves, and so on. This is how it works. We have games where we destroy and other players are getting farmed, we have games where we get farmed and destroyed, and we have more less balanced matches every once in awhile. For the most part public matchmaking is a gamble. It just depends on the match.

 

Let me know your thoughts.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

@.Zel  @-Dice-

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRkS17Gbs4u1h_W2W7_Z-ZA

My YouTube channel. So you can see for yourselves what I meant about me making the videos to showcase the game's fun PvP not my skill or the kills I'm getting in them. No, I didn't say I go for "cool kills" I said I go for "cool clips" meaning clips that I deem interesting, unique, action packed, etc.

I'd love to know your thoughts so if you do check out the videos, feel free to leave feedback. Didn't like them? Dislike and tell me why. Liked them? Tell me why. I'm all for constructive criticism.

I have videos of me playing in RC and videos of me playing outside of it. The videos under my playlist "Warframe PvP" are outside of RC. The videos under the playlist "Mash-Up/Montage Videos" are inside of RC. Give or take a few. I just checked and some of the earlier full length matches under Warframe PvP look to be in RC.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

15 hours ago, -Dice- said:

That was only problematic in the first 1 or 2 match, all that was done by them was spamming ability but had no general aim, they behaved very rudely once i started to counter them and they were not able to kill me anymore. Such player staying in mode made for new people is sad, it is what is called as seal clubbing in other PvP game i used to play.

I only tell you about that as i felt it was unfair for those who couldn't defend themselves.

I checked both of your profiles, he has 21k deaths, i'm sure it was just mistake and you mistook 1 for 7.

 

I start playing over a month or 2 ago i think, i go in, i know not how to bj but just walk and sprint.........i still got scores like 15-0 in RC, when i learn how to move and shoot like good players of Conclave. I get 35-0 or more, i started playing outside of RC when i find out it was possible because in RC, PvP was no different than PvE, i saw little to no skill in RC. The ones who abuse RC and farm new players also just spam ability for kills, no aim. Most i saw were Mr1-10.

It is true i only got barely 120/130 kill in RC and rest 1k outside of RC against worthy players so i cannot know if that is what it is all RC was like, but i feel bad and it felt unfair for me to play in RC due to caliber of player there and if i do not fight those better than me then i cannot improve.

But seeing your argument, and i have read all that is posted......you are just giving sad excuse, you say you cannot go against regulars, this is because you restrain your potential by playing against those who are not better than you. If you truly do mean you get stomped regularly and play out of RC when you play solo then that must mean you do not play out of RC much, because someone who get stomped can't have 1k death with 6k kill, that is not what is called getting stomped.

I still have RC option as i not have enough credit to offer to teshin to rank up but just to be able to see for myself i still would not go in there, as i said, RC players seemed no different than me than PvE bots, simply because they are learning and i do not want to be a big wall in their learning experience, that is what people like you are.

 

Sounds like you were an above average player from the start. I've been playing PvP in this game for a little over a year and I'm still not good enough to go 15/35-0 in RC or out of it, granted I don't play that often, maybe once a week for 1-2 matches. So that's pretty impressive, to be honest. I've never seen RC as no different than PvE, I've never been that good, as I've stated lol. Maybe if I played every day for hours I'd be that good, but it means very little to me to be good at this game (or games in general), as I've implied in previous posts. As I've said time and time again, I really just like playing for fun and making videos from time to time (to show off how cool the game is, not my skill or the kills I get in the videos). I wish I had found the words to better explain that in previous posts, that would've probably cleared up the confusion much quicker. I regret arguing back and forth with @.Zel over this because it was a waste of both of our time.

I get what you're saying about the ability spam, but that's a problem in both RC and out of it. Anything that causes impair or knockdown in PvP is kind of BS in my opinion, considering the game is focused around movement. The only frame I use is Volt so my abilities aren't that good for getting kills, the shock can pick off people at really low health at times but his speed boost and shield are what I like about him. He's also just the only frame I have besides Excal, Nidus, and Equinox but I never really got into the others.

I don't feel bad for playing in RC because my skill was never like yours in this game nor did I ever care for it to be. I'm not a regular by any means. I just play casually (for fun) and have met countless players that could best me even in RC. Not necessarily stomp me, but they could get more kills on me than I could get on them and they could win the overall match over me. For example maybe they go 25-7 and I go 15-9 or they go 22-10 and I go 16-8. There's been times where I've been stomped too, though. I think my worst game was something along the lines of 2-14 but that was one of the first games I played outside of RC. My worst in RC was more something around 4-12. FtSwag has a 4-5 K/D, Tanvir01 a 3 K/D I think, and ---Legacy--- a 2 something K/D, etc. those guys and sometimes Bandzman were who would stomp me in RC when we'd play. Also some randoms every once in awhile, I actually have a video on my YT channel of me getting stomped by random players I found farming awhile back.

I never said I couldn't play against regulars. I've played against PythaDragon, FullMetal, squidd, Sky_, etc. before. They pretty much destroy me but I manage to get kills on them. I play against better players than me every time I play WF PvP. I'm really not that good of a player and never said that I was. In every post I've said that I play for fun or for videos for the most part but will tryhard at times like when I play against farmers or play outside of RC solo. You're right I don't play solo that often though. Like I said I'll play maybe 1-2 matches whenever I get on, usually the first will be casual match in RC with friends that prefer it, second will be a more sweaty match with friends that play outside RC. I didn't say I always get stomped, though, I just said that I do get stomped sometimes. I don't have 1k deaths though, I haven't been on in awhile because I guess you and .Zel both play far more often than me because you've both been studying my account and my clanmates accounts (kind of weird that it meant that much to you, but I'm not judging), but I know my K/D in this game is around a 2.3 so I couldn't have 1k deaths with 6k kills. And yeah, call me what you want but I don't see myself as this huge barrier in the way of people playing the game, I'm not anywhere near racking up 35-0 games. I'd consider you more of a threat in the time you spent in RC than I've ever been. But either way, those players you were stomping had the option to leave, they chose to stay and get stomped, so it's not on you and you have no real reason to feel bad. That's just my take on it.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

7 hours ago, .Zel said:

You're from the same clan as b**d*man(censored name cause i don't want to name and shame) who is a well known RC farmer, left RC after he got 28k+ kills on new players in RC and has not touched PvP ever since he has left RC. Of course myself and any other players will question your intentions.

Because we see people who do play in RC complain about people like you, way too experienced for RC but still in RC. Last complain i've seen of such sort was from the player @-Dice- when he first started playing Conclave. I may not be in RC now but i was there when i started and so ik what type of players populate RC mostly, i still know people who play in RC as they are new so ik nothing much has changed, majority are new players and some people like you who think they can justify their presence in RC.

And new players in RC don't want to play because of players like you camping in RC stomping them.

In Conclave moving is bullet jumping around, not walking or sprinting, I see people outside of RC who can't even move fast and aim at the same time and ik from my experience in RC that it was no different.

Ik other players like your fellow clanmate who farms RC, i got farmed by them too back then when i started. Now i am out of RC and can actually stand against them but alas, they're still in RC, still farming new players.

You in particular are from the same clan as an RC farmer, this calls for a lot of doubt. You got 6k kills and you can say "maybe that's not a lot" but your clan mate has 28k+ from RC. can you justify that? More importantly, Should you even bother try justifying such a thing.

There's more players outside of RC, most who make it past RC tend to stick around, whereas those who don't make it past RC just forget about Conclave in general.

 

"Pros play outside of RC so i will stay inside of RC forever", you're the one staying in RC just to feel you're almighty among the new players, your clanmate sure stayed in it to turn his negative K/D into a positive one.

You can't justify staying in RC, you're just throwing oil on fire, even those who don't PvP can understand the reason why.

Bandzman doesn't play Warframe at all anymore, not just PvP. He's been inactive for 100+ days. He also wasn't a farmer. He wouldn't even know what that is, he wasn't an avid gamer. He was just a regular guy who got stoned and played after work sometimes because he thought Warframe PvP in specific was fun. You clearly never spoke to him, just assumed. Just like you continue to assume my intentions when playing RC despite me giving you my reasons over and over. He didn't play outside RC to farm, he did so because he liked to play casually and just have fun with the game and not get stomped by the regulars. It wasn't fun to him to join a match and not get any kills because the regulars that play all day stomp everyone into the ground. It was never about the K/D he just liked playing. Why is it such a foreign concept to you that some people just play it for fun and aren't worried about showcasing their skill or stats? The dude had 28k kills but also 27k deaths, something you neglected to mention to make your argument seem more valid. He really wasn't a threat to new players anyway, they obviously got their fair share of kills on him. Again, they're not just mindless bots that can't figure out how to get kills. If you were getting farmed by Bandz, you must've just been really bad. Speaking as someone who played with him, he met players that could outplay him all the time. So speak for yourself.

I'm not going over my presence in RC with you YET AGAIN. Refer to my earlier posts where I have already explained why I still play in RC (AT TIMES) if you need to do so. The majority of the time I'm not playing in it, but as I've said, I play with certain people like clanmates looking for a more casual approach to PvP. When I play solo I play outside of it. I'm not going to rank up and limit myself from playing with friends and clanmates to justify myself to you and the regulars. I don't care about your opinions on the subject. Let me play the game how I want to play and with whom I want to play it with. Also, I know you want to speak on behalf of all the regulars, but who's to say they'd all agree with all of your points? Or did you just assume that as well?

Your entire argument is based solely on assumption and exaggeration because it's weak and not much of an argument at all. There's no need to continue this pointless circle I'm going in with you. Not to mention the fact that this little fued has stretched far from the original topic of this thread, so it doesn't need to continue. I think we can both agree on that. Anyway, think what you want about me, I don't need to justify my actions to you as if you're some God Emperor of Warframe PvP, as if that'd be much of a title anyway. I'm still going to play in RC when I play with my friends that prefer to do so, or when I want to play casually and mess around maybe to get clips or just for the heII of it, and still going to play outside of it when I want to play with my friends that prefer that or when I play solo more seriously and tryhard. I've got no hard feelings towards you or how you choose to play, I'm not going to try to tell you how you should play like you want to do for me, I'm just happy people still play and have an interest in keeping it alive and progressing. Anyway, at the end of the day it's a game and we're both going to play how we want to. See you in Conclave I guess.

(this will be my last reply, if that wasn't already clear enough. Respond if you have more to say, I'll read your response but don't expect further replies from me)

[Add a "Capture the Uplink" game mode to Warframe Conclave! (Probably a Battle-Royal game mode too?)]

7 hours ago, NNKanell said:

I do not like the game modes Lawbreakers.
I want to see, team elimination.
 

I like that idea. I'd like FFA elimination too.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

9 hours ago, .Zel said:

i merely implied i know most but you're right, no player knows every single person who plays.

That's because you got people like @ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD going around killing new players in RC mode for "cool clips". There was a thread for Forced Graduation i.e RC being disabled for anyone who gets more than 1k kills.

As i've stated before this is nothing new for fast paced games, this is why they're not popular and i doubt they ever will be even in the next decade. The fast paced games are what most don't prefer and on top of it the skill ceiling puts off many people. This is why such games have small communities with dedicated players. 

That's only if you want to be on top of the score board in pub games, I play almost regularly i.e i play exclusively for Conclave but even I don't go to pub matches all the time. Sometimes i just go in invite only with a friend or two to play. Not playing for the rewards, not playing to make myself known, just playing for fun and that is what the purpose of Conclave is supposed to be. A fun little break from the usual PvE, the rewards are just a minor bonus.

So you're saying you don't kill RC players unless you want a cool clip of you killing RC players?

You are a player with almost 6k kills playing in a mode where players start off with 0 kills. It takes 100-150 games to even get 1k kills and by that time a player is more than experienced enough to be too good for RC, RC is a mode where people who barely even know how to bullet jump with fresh accounts or players who never even tried Conclave plays in and there you are with non-experienced players. Anyone with 1k kills or more is too good for RC, maybe not good enough to go against the regulars outside of RC but certainly better than those in RC who can't even move and shoot at the same time.

This doesn't justify you being in RC at all, nothing does, it's basically "Player A is toxic so i'm just being toxic too, So that must mean being toxic is ok". They deserve no respect because they farm new players for relic packs or to boost their own k/d, you're falling into the same category as them since you just claimed you kill RC players for "cool clips".

Say whatever you want but you can't justify your decision, You want to be able to play with your RC and NonRC friends? Cool, go in Invite only mode. You want to be able to play with your RC and NonRC friends in public? Cool, tell your RC buddies to turn off RC, simple fix.

I'm flattered you think I'm as good as the pros or "Jimi Hendrixes" as we're calling them, but I'm no where near it. As I said, I get destroyed in RC, or do well in it, it just depends. Same goes without the filter, sometimes I get destroyed, sometimes I do well. It is what it is.

So you're saying you don't kill RC players unless you want a cool clip of you killing RC players?

More or less, yeah. I don't tryhard, as I said. Meaning I don't utilize my full potential in RC. I don't get clips from pub stomping new players I get cool clips from screwing around and trying new things I'm usually trash at like sniping and getting lucky for example (they get plenty of kills on me when I'm messing around going for clips, trust me). In fact near all my clips in my videos are based on luck. I record only 1-2 matches and edit the same day, it's not about showcasing my skill man, if it was I'd put more time in to get better clips against actually good players. It's about the editing and making cool videos of a cool game with a lot of potential for cool videos and clips. When I said I only tryhard in RC when I run into players pub stomping new players, I obviously meant I only tryhard to kill those specific players. Meaning I don't go full tryhard and join in the farming, I try to kill the players farming. I don't want to call you stupid, but you knew that's what I meant, I made it clear enough. It doesn't make me toxic for trying to stop players from pub stomping.

I don't know why this thread means so much to you that you took it upon yourself to search me up in game, but so be it I guess, lol. Since you looked me up that means you would also know I have 2k+ deaths alongside the 6k kills, as I said, players in RC get plenty of kills on me all the time (granted many of those kills and deaths are from outside RC as well). I don't tryhard and pub stomp, I screw around in RC. Players rack up more kills than me, surpass me on the scoreboard, kill me, all the time. They get their fair share of kills on me, it's far from one sided. I don't just take advantage of new players like you want to make me out to. Also, I'm trying to figure out why you think the only people in RC are fresh accounts that can't bullet jump. When was the last time you were in RC? What makes you think it's just me and a few other players farming fresh accounts? Why do you think you can speak on behalf of RC players when you clearly don't even play in it? You're really underestimating the players in RC. They're not fu(ck)ing bots or braindead they can move and shoot at the same time, and do far more than you think, many of them. You're just exaggerating to try to make your weak argument stronger. Don't assume your argument is strong because your popular in the PvP community so you get blind upvotes.

The people I play with in RC are in RC for a reason, they refuse to play outside of it out of fear we'll just match with pros and get destroyed. It's not unknown that the pros ruin the experience for a lot of players by pub stomping people fresh out of RC. But that's somehow justified because they have the filter turned off. So basically what the pros or regulars want people to believe is it's ok for them to pub stomp low skill players because they're not in RC. But people who play in RC past 1k kills (even if they don't tryhard and pub stomp) are toxic. I suppose the root of the problem would be the regulars. Regulars pub stomp outside of RC, which causes players to not want to play outside of RC, then those players play in RC (some noob farming, some just trying to play for fun without getting destroyed by regulars), which then causes the regulars to have less players to pub stomp, so the regulars cry that the players trying to avoid them are all toxic. Me personally, I've always seen RC as a sort of casual mode (a more laid back, less sweaty version of PvP), while as turning it off would be competitive. Even if I am toxic as you claim, you're no better. Get off your high horse man.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

7 minutes ago, .Zel said:

It makes the thread unnecessarily long when you use 1 post to reply to a single person instead of using multi quotes, even more when you re-quote a big wall of text just to add a single line of reply to it. It makes it easier for others who might start reading now to go through the discussion if you use the proper formatting.

If you're skill is beyond RC then you should rank up, anyone with more than 1k kill is not suitable for RC. RC is for the new players who are just getting into conclave, a mode which assumes that a player won't even have more than 4-5 weapons in total at their arsenal. This is the "ruining new players experience" people talk about and i feel like you might be one of them. There are those who farm RC matches just to be able to buy relics packs from Teshin, you might not be one of them but others might report you thinking otherwise when they see the high kill count but still in RC.

You can play with anyone regardless of rank in Inv only mode. You made a thread stating why people are against conclave and here is where you realize you might be a small part of it.

We're here to discuss Conclave not how people post replies.

Dude, you don't have to tryhard and put forth all your effort in every match. I don't farm new players, when I'm playing with friends in RC we're just messing around playing for fun or trying to get cool clips for videos. not pub stomping new players. If I see players running around as a default excal I ignore them, unless I'm trying to make a YT video or something, because I'll try to get cool clips in that case (I don't make videos to showcase my skill in this game, I just think it's a cool game and like making little edits or montages of it). But you'd be surprised how many high skilled vets actually play in RC, the only time I tryhard in RC is when I run into them pub stomping and farming new players or players just trying to do challenges to get the PvP rewards. Sometimes I get destroyed even in RC by guys like that.

Never really thought of inv only mode but I do play in clan only mode sometimes if a good portion of us our online. But my clan is kind of dead, truthfully. Even still I feel ranking up really limits you in the community.

[Add a "Capture the Uplink" game mode to Warframe Conclave! (Probably a Battle-Royal game mode too?)]

On 10/10/2017 at 5:09 PM, Matoro1992 said:

Ok to be honest,  with Lawbreakers not doing too hot (on PC), the next best thing when it comes to a fast-paced shooter with a decent player count is Warframe's Conclave (from my experience).

I'm aware that most people enjoy Warframe mainly for its PvE, however, I'm one of the few who enjoy Warframe mainly for it's PvP. As it has a unique set of movement mechanics. But I'd have to admit it is under-cooked when it comes to its current game modes. They're too generic and doesn't fit well with the fast paced nature of the game. 

I was wondering if Warframe Conclave can take some inspiration from Lawbreakers and create a new team-objective based gamemodes such as, Capture the Uplink. Unlike CTF, I think Capture the Uplink game mode would offer more focus action and teamwork. Personally, I like this game mode in Lawbreakers as it discourages camping and gives a chance for the enemy team to steal the uplink before it registers as a "capture" within 20 seconds after 100% charge. Since our characters fly 100mph anyway, I think it is best to reduce the capture time to 10 or 15 seconds.  

Since Warframe abilities plays as "Supers" in a way, I would think it would be best to take out the blue orbs from maps and have our character's power regenerate over time instead, to give some "tactical-flavor" when and where to activate the "Super" abilities. For example, we don't want Frost to put up a snow globe around the capture point all the time.

---

You can also do something experimentally interesting by adding a Battle Royal game mode into Warframe with its Plains of Eidolon expansion coming out soon. It would literally be the first ever fast-paced Battle Royal game ever created. 

---

To those who play PvP, what do you think? Does these game modes sound ridiculous enough that it'll peak your interest to try out them out?

Interesting ideas, but I don't see it happening. If you want a faster paced BR though, Fortnite would be good. I've been enjoying it.

If they do implement new modes, I think a king of the hill type mode would be fun. Where there's a zone that randomly appears around the map and you fight to capture it until it's captured and moves to another spot. It would be easy to implement on the maps we already have as well.

Also, never picked up Lawbreakers, but if it's doing as bad as you say and you want a new game to try, DooM 2016's MP is really fast paced and fun. Pretty decent playerbase with around 3-4,000 still playing at any given time, according to Steam.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 minute ago, .Zel said:

basically on discord or in game or in steam, anyone who plays daily usually have some pvp players added. simply because it's easier to join a match from your friendslist rather than changing region and trying every mode available............and why are you posting multiple times instead of including it all in one post. Also, hidden function makes the wall smaller.

We're here to discuss Conclave not how people post replies. But yeah, I can agree with that, I don't much care for the discord community but I have players added on Steam and in game, never had that much trouble finding a match though to the point where I'd have to try every mode and region. I just keep my rank at Whirlwind (don't really care about the skins and sydana) and switch in and out of RC to find a match. I never liked the idea of ranking up because then I can't play with anyone in the community I want to. I have friends that will only play in RC, friends that will only play out of it, and friends that are down for either.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, Axton said:

Well Conclave already isn't liked, I was only suggesting a game mode for Conclave.

If anything, Conclave is fine where it is, nobody really pays much attention to it, it's not really in the way either.

EDIT: Adding preset loadouts might attract a new audience and bring life back to Conclave... for a short time. Or not, you never know.

I can get on board with a new game mode with specific classes. As long as the movement is the same I'd definitely try it out.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, FierceRadiance said:

WF is a....okay, it used to be a co-op game--but it was never intended to have a PvP element. In early Devstreams DE actually said as much. As years passed they changed their mind, and bolted Conclave on. But it's audience is extremely limited - less than 2% of players play it according to DE's most recent numbers.

I've also spoken to a handful of Tenno who have tried it, and they all report getting wrecked by other Tenno who either have vastly better skills, or were using hax. Either way, getting your a$$ shot off -repeatedly- doesn't sound like fun.

Conclave players are very vocal, and very protective of their corner of Warframe, but there just aren't very many other Tenno that want to share their little world with them.

Near everyone gets destroyed at the start of the game. You have to put the time in to get better, and that goes with anything. Do you expect to just pick up a guitar and play better than Jimi Hendrix the next day?

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

4 minutes ago, .Zel said:

it won't die, it's the same story with Quake/UT/LawBreakers or any other fast paced game. These game have a steep learning curve and majority prefer games with boots on the ground i.e CS:GO/Arma/Battlefield. Fast paced games like these are left to be dominated by the ones who put in the effort to get better at it, so there's a big gap.

As for why don't most people even try, rewards aren't good enough so they don't need to as they can play any PvE mission and get a lot more out of them. For those who do play, don't really play much for rewards but simply because it's fun to them.

They are kind of class via ehp, light/mid/tanks.

 

mods are nice to have but they're not so good that someone with no mods stand 0 chance. Seen many pro's from other fast paced games come in with just Excal/Mk1Braton/Lato and dominate lobbies without having a single mod on anything. Experience plays a big role in how well a person performs in any PvP game. It's balanced just fine aside from energy regen and 4's

And you need to do mission via other Syndicates for their stuff, I didn't get my Telos Syandana from doing just any mission i like, i had to do Hexis missions or missions by their ally for Syndicate standing. Playing PvP for getting rewards offered by a PvP Syndicate is perfectly reasonable.

Simply correcting the false accusations regarding "hacks/aimbots" or "highly imbalanced weapons". Players who do well in conclave are able to do well because they play a lot, it's not that hard, it takes a year to just learn the basics of a game like Dota2 but people still do it, they put in the time and effort and as such they are rewarded later on. Same thing with Conclave players, put in the time and effort and anyone will do well.

 

It's significantly less in Conclave because of the small player base, a conclave regular knows others who play on a first name basis and we usually have a recorder running. So if there is a cheater then the footage can be reviewed and sent to DE if it is obvious that the player is cheating. Takes barely a day or two for DE to ban actual aimbots.

I wouldn't say significantly less, I've played PvP in this game for a little over a year and have definitely seen cheaters in both recruit conditioning and out of it. No I don't just mean players that are good, anyone who plays a lot of games can distinguish the difference, people just call others cheats out of frustration and inflated ego. But they do seem to go pretty quick. And I doubt every dedicated PvPer in this game knows each other by name man. Not everybody who enjoys the game enjoys the cancerous community (PvP and PvE both).

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

59 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

because the people who play conclave and the rest of warframe's playerbase can likely never come to a consensus on how to "fix"it. people who PLAY conclave think it's perfect, and any time a non-pvper comes by with a suggestion, it's often shot down with a vengeance.

Popular complaints are:

Conclave is based too much on high-speed frantic combat: countered with "this is what makes conclave unique, don't kill our gamemode"

cheese tactics: countered with "git gud"

the time it takes to take a warframe from full health to none is too low: also countered with "git gud"

in short: the PvP playerbase (who, admittedly, probably deserves more say in conclave matters than us) doesn't take kindly to the mere mention of improving the system, to the point that they'll even fight tooth and nail to keep the greatest conclave reward(the syandana) an endless grind just to upkeep, much less obtain (let's face it, the grind to get it should be enough grind to get it as it is displayed in the preview window; and doing so would likely raise the popularity of conclave, which you'd think should be good, but...)

The largest plague going against conclave improvement is population. If matches were sorted so you were playing against people who had a similar skill level as you, it would be much better. However, the moment you leave the recruit conditioning mode (which you sometimes have to do anyways to find matches, even when below rank 2 with teshin) you are placed in matches mostly containing typhoons, and experienced ones at that--because that's the vast majority of the conclave population. Even then, there's rarely more than a few different public matches going on at any one time(on my servers/during my playtime anyways), so there wouldn't be a large enough pool of players to even make use of intelligent matchmaking. Worst part is, conclave has remained mostly dead for so long that I doubt there's anything DE can do to fix it.

 

On a positive note, I will say that the Tactical Alert Gamemodes that DE makes (especially the hearts & arrows event) were alot more fun to me. First of all, you've got more people of more skill levels competing, for snappy matchmaking times and a better experience for scrubs like me who can't play conclave as well as the usual people I'm up against. You've also got a set loadout: you can take whatever warframe you want into the match, but you won't have abilities and will always have the same amount of health, so your chosen warframe is just a cosmetic, and you're handed your weapons at the start of the match. Since everyone has the same weapons, and everyone has the same stats, everyone's on an even playing field. It's more about who actually has more skill and less about who has a cheesy tactic you're poor at countering.

Unfortunately, PvP tactical alerts get a lot of flak from the playerbase, so I'm not sure DE will continue releasing them except once in a blue moon.

Honestly this is the perfect answer to the question. You summed everything up really well and I agree with you on most everything you put. Well said man.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 minute ago, Heckzu said:

PvP is not a genre, it's a schema. Saying things along the line of, "if you want PvP, go play this FPS/MOBA game" makes no sense. What if I don't like FPS games or MOBA games?

What if I want to play a fast paced slash-and-shoot TPS game? Let me try to list my available options:

• GunZ The Duel (officially shut down in 2013)
• GunZ The Duel 2 (game flopped due to too many issues at launch, just like No Man's Sky)
• S4 League (released in 2007, this game is over a decade old now with outdated graphics)

If you know of any others, then please by all means tell me, because there isn't much of a selection to chose from.

This.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, tarfeef101 said:

For me it is very simple: warframe is a PVE game for me. If I want PVP, I play battlefront, CSGO, or CoD. That's not why I play warframe. It's not the kind of PVP experience I enjoy.

Meh those games can't really compare to Warframe's PvP. It's an entirely different experience. That's the point, it's so different from other PvP games, with a much larger skill gap. If there were other PvP focused games that had Warframe's advanced movement I'd pick them up in a heartbeat.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, Jakorak said:

As a player of middling skill that spent the time to max out conclave's syndicate and grab almost everything Teshin has to offer,

As well as a player that has witnessed many PVE games try to grab a slice of that sweet E-sports PVP pie,

Conclave has made monumental changes and improvements to itself over its lifetime, but I find it really hard to shake the notion that PVP being stapled onto a PVE - centric game is a fundamentally flawed pursuit.

You're not wrong, unfortunately. I've never seen PvP implemented really well into PvE games.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, Emolition said:

My hate is from pvp in any game and that is the risk of cheaters and that ruin any fun.  The last few years only pvp I did was world of tanks but before that I really haven't played much pvp sence medal of honor allied assault. Ones I started with mmorpg and got away for cheaters it got so much more fun to play.   

Yeah cheaters are a problem even in PvP games with such small playerbases like Warframe's PvP.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

1 hour ago, Axton said:

To answer this question,

Conclave exclusive mods ruin it for me. There isn't any balance either. You can go in as a new player without any mods and be demolished by someone who nolifes conclave. (*I don't see anyone doing that, but who knows*)

Yeah recruit conditioning does a really poor job of keeping tryhards from farming new players. All it really does in my opinion is divide the community, and with the PvP playerbase already being so small that's not doing it any good. I keep my rank at whirlwind just so I can ensure I can find a match when I want to play. If I can't find one with the filter off, I can turn it on and still find a match, on top of that I can play with anyone in the community I want instead of being restricted after ranking up too far.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

57 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

In all the games I've played in my 40 years of gaming (yes, started with Pong), I have never seen a game that does both PvE and PvP correctly at the same time. It's either/or.

While the Warframe PvP is not as bad as most PvE games, it still lacks a good bit of balance. Given that the majority of players are here for Co-Op PvE, I highly doubt that PvP will evolve much, or slowly if it does. To make PvP viable, DE would have to take the diversity away from the game. ie, make everyone equal on Frame/Weapon/Mods. Then it is a contest of player skill (which is what PvP is). To do that, takes away what Warframe is.

Most have come to the conclusion that the true test of a player's skill is not beating another player, but rather, being able to work with any and all players to overcome any and all goals/missions through the Co-Op play.

This is my favorite post in this thread, you did a really good job of answering my question, thank you. But there is one thing, PvP is already evolving, just at a very slow rate. The devs do make small changes to it with near every update, they're just so small you'd have to read the patch notes to even realize they're there, really. Other than that I understand what you're saying and can agree with it for sure.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

47 minutes ago, MisterUltimate said:

Both sides tend to have an either/or mentality on PvP. The truth is that whether or not PvP is fun is completely subjective, so try to keep these two points in mind.

• PvP fans liking the game mode does not make it good.
• PvP detractors not liking the game mode does not make it bad.

You are free to enjoy it. However, no amount of debate will make players that don't enjoy it change their mind. Even if you accuse those players of just not being good at it.

That said, I hope that those that enjoy it either don't give up on it, or return to it. There is nothing wrong with a game mode having a niche fanbase.

I agree, debate won't change people's minds on the subject. However, the purpose of this thread wasn't simply to debate whether or not PvP is good in the game. It was to question why it's so hated by the majority of the community. When the vets spread hate of the mode, it gives it a bad reputation and steers new players away from it. Considering the PvP playerbase is already so small, that's kind of a problem. But there's also other reasons new players steer away from it, like tryhards farming them.

I think if PvP was more talked about (positively) DE would put more attention towards it and make much needed changes to make it a far better experience, not just for the current PvP playerbase but for new players or vets trying it out as well. Truth is the mode is very flawed and not in a very good state at the moment, even the players that enjoy it (like myself) recognize that.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

47 minutes ago, Spartan336 said:

I think it's because it feels so different form other PvP games. 

True, I've heard that from a lot of players. Not saying people have to play it, just don't see why people need to hate on it and the players that enjoy it. The PvP community is small as is, it doesn't help when vets spread negativity about it to new players.

[Universal hatred of all things Conclave]

44 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

Conclave lacks actual balance. 

With so many weapons and warframes it is just a tangled mess.

==

If DE wants to improve conclave they will remove everything from it. 

Make all  warframes purely cosmetic - and give each team preset abilities. 
Where you get points to earn items like cosmetics or resources or relic packs. 

I agree wholeheartedly, PvP would be significantly better without abilities (especially those that cause stunlock). It would be a better experience and a more skill based experience if it was focused purely on the movement and gunplay.