[Cephalon Joke-a-Thon Contest [Winners Announced]]

Ordis wonders. If the Stalker had a pet, would it be ... the Creeper?

[Dual Zundi and/or Kitgun Zundi Please.]

I strongly agree with this. There aren't many 1 handed pistols that I like. But there are SO MANY dual pistols I would love to use it with.

This being said I would LOVE a dual Zundi pistol skin. I do understand that the reload animation might need to be reworked somehow, and that the magazines themselves might need to be changed somehow if the artists feel like it may be an issue. But overall I think there are many more unspoken people that would also love a dual Zundi pistol skin.

[Zundi Pistol skin magazine out of place]

I don't know what causes it but sometimes either on reload, or just equipping the skin I notice that the center of the 3 ... prong magazines? The middle one is moved higher and forward closer to the barrel. I didn't see anyone mention this so. So it clips into the gun. The clipping issues aside if you polish the design somehow it might not look half bad ...

[Extensive thoughts. A need for Exilus slots on weapons? Helpful but unused utility mods?]

On 2019-06-07 at 12:38 AM, Krion112 said:

I disagree, on the premise that the Exilus concept is a bandaid to an overarching problem: certain game mechanics are way more rewarding across more content than others, so therefore we always build our equipment to amplify those game mechanics. Saying we need more mod slots to make up for the imbalance of mechanical reward completely fails to address the issue, and is borderline power creep, which is already bad enough in Warframe.

Instead of adding Exilus Slots, I think DE should add more content and rework existing content to reward those mechanics over the ones that are currently always used. IE, Adding endless stealth mission types, where being undetected is apart of the reward and difficulty structure, improving the rewards and challenge of mission types that are easier to accomplish because of these mechanics, implementing combat system reworks that make underused mechanics more feasible and/or necessary/efficient, with some buffs and nerfs to both sides, etc.

In summary, I think it's a more proper solution for DE to make these mechanics necessary and wanted than it would be to just tack on Exilus slots. But, that would just be my opinion and solution by comparison.

I agree with your assessment that it is essentially a band aid. However unfortunately anything much larger is seriously outside my capabilities to offer feedback, and would just leave the utility mods left forgotten as is and unused. A large rework would have a very large amount of related issues, complications, and scenarios that is far outside what I can offer any real helpful feedback on without something to first base off of. So I just offered something that could work hopefully work well to some degree with what we have to work with. Even this seemingly smaller addition has wide reaching complex issues that crop up in many different areas. I recommend reading my responses to the other quotes below for some of them.

 

Your idea of an endless stealth mission is interesting, personally I dislike stealth missions but I am sure some may find it fun, however I feel Warframe would need a better enemy alert and stealth system. I can't offer a good system but as an example consider the gap in good stealth game between what we currently have in Warframe, and what Metal Gear Solid offers. Not saying it should be like metal gear solid, but that it has things thought out, work, even designed around it. If you think you can come up with a good way of fitting that in I recommend making a feedback post to try to make it happen, it is likely a large undertaking of a project, but even a small step toward something great, is a form of progress.

On 2019-06-07 at 5:14 AM, ShortCat said:

• Modding in general is all about making sacrifices, you are not supposed to equip every single mod
• Denial of the above mentioned point, led us to massive power creep we have right now
• Exilus did not inspire new builds, it introduced more power creep and created a separate mod pool with "best to use"/"not to use" mods. Exilus actually failed to achieve it stated goal, namely make utility mods more relevant. The issue is not the number of slots, but mods themselves or how necessary they are for the game. (Arcanes are actually second tier mods and suffer the same fate)
• Especially for weapons, which sole purpose is to make damage, will lead to more power. Do we need this additional power in the first place?
• In worst case scenario. How would you acquire this new slot?
• In worst case scenario. How will you mange additional drain?

Firm "no" to Exilus.

What I had in mind for Exilus mods on weapons was to try to use something to help a weapon somewhat with a shortcoming or offer a unique feature. An example being many how energy weapon's projectile speed make them less usable than a hitscan based weapon beyond a medium range (ex. Tetra or Dera vs Karak), and heavy recoil weapons with a dramatic screen shake to be more manageable on a person's senses. I can't think of the long list of weapons we have available that may have such an issue off the top of my head. But what I do remember is that the Pyrana prime settles back to a normal aim pretty quickly, so subtracting recoil for a less dramatic screen shake and easier on a person using it which in itself wouldn't affect  gun performance that much in terms of its accuracy and damage output anyways. I do however recognize how such a difference in recoil could for example make an Aklex prime more spammable. I also did not properly consider launcher based weapons, as they are so little used by me or around me at any time playing that they fell out of consideration. Basically I forgot about them.

 

Regular Exilus mods has inspired some new builds yes, I am surprised you think otherwise. An example of which I could think of is how in profit taker 3rd phase can be an absurd amount of staggering and knockdown. Staggering and knockdown that can come from units that leap at you over a distance, or melee you repeatedly, or the giant shield walls that fly at you from profit taker, a combination of which can that almost stunlock you even with one of the two between Handspring and Pain Threshold. Of course there is Resolute Focus which gives +100% resistance to both, but is only available on an archgun which unfortunately you wouldn't have access to in your first run of phase 3 as it must be completed before obtaining an Archgun deployer. Things often quickly spiral out of hand and essentially your best option is to run away as much as possible and shoot at the profit taker in this mission, fighting head on is even substantially more difficult than most arbitrations! Essentially what I am trying to say though, is that fighting head on in this mission is probably one of the most difficult things to do, especially when the large raknoids start showing up on top of what feels like an Elite Sanctuary Onslaught amount of higher level enemies and a boss shooting at you, there are builds to try to do so, but each has their weaknesses and shortcomings, and simply escaping is probably one of the best options in general.

Meanwhile for regular use of Exilus mods. For me at least I use a wide variety for many different situations, which even then I switch based on preferences at the time. An example being max speed volt for capture missions? Might use Rush, but maybe I get knocked down occasionally like say from a fire eximus enemy or hooked from enemies that drag you to them so I might swap Rush for Handspring. A Saryn in Elite Sanctuary Onslaught might use Cunning Drift to capitalize on range, or handspring to prevent being knocked down for long, which can be risky if you also use a build that tries to capitalize on hunter adrenaline or rage. Almost certainly not Primed Sure footed since it costs way more capacity and uses a significantly less used polarity. I even know of a small niche thing gaining some interest and traction using the Synth set mods starting with synth reflex and others you might want to fit in to not have to reload as well as offering an interesting way to play. I am even considering trying that to spice things up with something unique. Its true people have preferences on what they would usually use or not use in Exilus, there is always an old reliable to each thing, kind of like Vitality, even on the lowest HP frames you might want that over a Primed Vigor, even if just to be a bit more resilient to things that bypass shields. Overall I think the difference there is people just using what they find to be old reliable and leaving it as is, even though there are other things that add more benefits over time yet unseen, or an interesting new build that works but is not explored.

 

As for acquiring the new slot and the additional drain. Assuming it would follow Exilus slots and Exlius mods, the regular Exilus adapater. Its not a good answer given how many weapons a person may use on top of all the different war frames on top of what it takes to obtain one adapter. But they could probably see more use than just the roughly 40 warframes. Some Exilus mods definitely need adjustment like Primed Sure Footed, up to 16 drain with a  D polarity that not much uses, and polarizing the Exilus slot would add some options while removing others.

Making an Exilus weapon mod slot to be like an aura and adding polarity would be excessive, but might offer more diverse builds from not limiting the overall capacity requiring as much polarities. This is just an idea that came to mind when thinking how one might be able fit everything in or to expand what might be able to add more flexibility to overall weapon builds, at least where mod capacity is concerned.

On 2019-06-07 at 6:12 AM, Lone_Dude said:

When is DPS increase "too large?". People above stated why adding exilus slots to weapons is a bad idea in the first place. This comment of mine should clarify why it's a bad idea even if it's not discarded outright.

• Less recoil = easier to land shots = higher DPS. Slap -recoil on Pandero and it's alt-fire will suddenly be super easy to use and allow you to land 8 shots easily.
• Same applies to Punch Through. You can hit more enemies with it per shot, so it effectively doubles or tripples the damage you deal in general, since Warframe is not about fighting 1 enemy in an open field. It's about fighting 10 dudes at the same time, sometimes in an open field, but more often in some corridor.
• Projectile Velocity can be a great increase in damage for weapons like Zarr and Plasmor - projectiles travel further, can hit more enemies on a longer distance.
• Status duration can increase duration of Slash and Viral procs, these are already meta damage types/status procs. Why would you want to buff weapons that can utilize them even further?
• As for silencers - Ivara exists. Other invi frames will benefit from it greatly, when it comes to their survivability. It would replace one of Lokis augments for example.
• Target acquired is +60% headshot multiplier. Exilus mod? Whot. Maybe we should make Serration an exilus mod as well, lmao?

All of that stuff affects DPS, some of it directly.

It is good you offer explanations on what and why. To be honest there are so many weapons in Warframe it would take nothing short of one crazy flow chart to figure out every repercussion to each one, let alone remember how every single one of them and used and how they behave.

I do not use a Pandero and have not for a very long time. It is likely just one of the weapons I used but didn't like much.

From the weapons with higher recoil I remembered however the recoil was on the steeper side but reset back to its initial position pretty quickly. Such as the Pyrana Prime, Lex Prime, Aklex Prime. Granted the Aklex needs its shots paced out about a second and required more time between shots to retain its accuracy. However it was relatively easy to just aim further down to just retain most of that accuracy, a fairly simple action to manage its recoil. One of my main thoughts on proposing less recoil is to lessen the strain on players such as myself who have issues with a regular more dramatic screen shaking which prevents the use of some good guns. I would have to rebuild a Pandero to see what you mean about how minus recoil would affect it. My next best suggestion on the previously mentioned issue being along the lines to just lower recoil in general but increase the amount of time for the gun to recover from recoil, however  that could be boiled down to the same effect by different but probably better means leaving the player to learn and manage the recoil under constant firing. Each option has its own complex repercussions in ways we can miss out on, or never think of, and its tough trying to find something good enough for everyone.

 

Projectile velocity. To be frank I had about completely forgotten about launcher weapons. I never use them, now that I think back on it though, I didn't like how most of them felt, kind of like how I don't like having to manually detonate each Penta round. I think the tonkor required a direct hit to reliably explode on enemies too. I never really see anyone using any kind of launcher weapon either

As for the Plasmor as a shotgun I would imagine damage falloff would take care of maximum range effectiveness issues and under that scenario projectile velocity wouldn't do much for it to begin with given its short range shotgun effectiveness. The main thing I had in mind was how about any energy based weapon like the Dera, Supra, Tetra, etc. Its been a long time but from what I remember the dual Cestra was pretty inaccurate so a faster projectile speed wouldn't really do much for it. Meanwhile its counterparts such as the Karak, Gorgon, dual vipers etc are that much easier to use even at the least due to difference between projectile velocity and hitscan weapons.

 

Status duration I agree could be a big issue lasting longer if you think only about viral and slash, however even using between those two, far more often than not the enemy would die before the status effects fade. Corrosive being a permanent thing upon proc and especially after stripping all armor off. Meanwhile other status effects such as puncture, impact, radiation, maybe gas? among others would be welcome to having more pronounced or longer lasting effects. So I can agree currently that longer lasting status as they are now wouldn't be all that good a change, but certainly better or longer lasting effects for other less desired status effects would be welcome. As to which ones, how long, and to what extent is likely something to cover another time as that is a few pages of itself on the changes that would be involved.

 

Silencers. With Ivara I actually use silent battery on a hard hitting shotgun so it can actually get rid of obstacles like enemies in the way hopefully with minimal alerts being raised or in destroying those electric mines the Grineer have. the newly released Fulmin makes for a decent substitute but doesn't quire compare with say a Corinth, Tigris or a Hek. I suppose when doing a stealth mission most often one would take one of the roughly 3 suitable stealth based frames. My thoughts were in allowing more ability for those frames and other frames to attempt stealth based approaches, but not specifically only stealth missions. As for the Loki augment being rendered redundant from it, that does sound a like a problem I can't offer much helpful feedback on.

 

Target acquired. Yea that one was a mistake that slipped through, that one is an obvious huge damage boost for anything with a head. I had wrote down a list of mods that covered all the major effects listed in the points, which quickly got redundant so I had to try to simplify it. As well as whatever unique mods offered unique effects to weapons. I started generalizing into types and just a list of mods with unique affects. I also now noticed I missed the one that gives launchers bigger explosion radius. I had intended along the lines of things like Sharpshooter which gives energy on headshot kill, and Harkonar scope to increase combo multiplier duration. Guardian derision which essentially taunts enemies is another unique one.

[Extensive thoughts. A need for Exilus slots on weapons? Helpful but unused utility mods?]

Preface

This gets long as feedback, but I feel is worth everyone's attention due to the extent of important changes I feel this could make. Warframes have the option for Exilus mods which can offer small buffs, abilities, or resistances. They can offer some small unique benefits like Mesa's Waltz or Hysterical Assault. Utility uses like Thief's wit, Enemy Sense, Patagium +aim glide and wall latch, even Rush for more sprint speed. These are all mods that are nice to use but not something you would typically want to sacrifice the limited regular mod slots we have. One wouldn't want to exchange an all too necessary Intensify, stretch, streamline, or continuity for a Handspring or Heavy Impact. They all offer their varying degree of somewhat niche usefulness.

 

To use these utility mods over regular damage related mods on weapons requires sacrificing too much performance.

There are many mods that I think would be perfectly suited to being in a theoretical Exilus slot for weapons. The limited mod slots available simply do not allow for these mostly utilitarian niche mods to ever really see use. Especially since it would have significant reduction to damage if it replaced a regular mod. However there are many mods that I believe many would like to use, but can never sacrifice a normal mod to do so. Any regular mod being swapped out would have huge impacts on damage output (ex. Serration, elemental damage and/or status, multi shot, critical chance, and critical damage, etc.)

 

I would like to offer examples of unused mods that could see great usage if offered a specialized utility slot. like maybe an Exilus slot for weapons. There is a long list of specific mods for each weapon type so I will try to cover some more prominent examples.

 

Some key points that could make these great as Exilus mods.

Ammo economy such as Critical Delay  which could offer a small critical chance increase to offset its lower fire speed impact on dps, Maybe alternatives like Vile Precision offers up to -60% weapon recoil and -36% fire rate, which can be used to really reduce screen shake for those averse to it, while also offering more ammo economy. As what could be an Exilus mod for rifles It could offer a small performance change or increase to something that would fit more to a player's preferences, while trying to not gain or sacrifice large amounts of damage. Balancing damage and fire speed for ammo economy is a key for this.

Recoil reducing mods such as Stabilizer or Steady Hands would be amazing on a few weapons like the Pyrana prime which although a great weapon. I personally don't like to use due to how it can just cause dizziness pretty quickly for those averse to such a constant screen shake. Probably shouldn't be allowed to use more than 1 non riven based recoil mod since it might offer up to -120% weapon recoil.

Projectile velocity based mods like Terminal Velocity which would increase rifle projectile velocity up to +60% which could be very helpful for things like a Battacor. A small change that doesn't really increase its damage output outright, but offers making the projectile based guns significantly easier to use in terms of leading targets, especially over a longer distance like in the open world areas.

Mods that offer only punch through like Metal Augur, this one could definitely be a stronger contender in popularity like what handspring is to Warframes, but I feel it would still be reasonable since it just increases a weapon's capability of dealing with groups of enemies in a line, but in my opinion it's not really a mod a person would sacrifice a more regularly used mod for.

Ammo mutation! There are a good number of weapons that could use this. It is a niche role for things with large magazines, reserves, and fire rate such as the Soma Prime, the Supra, Twin Grakatas, or other weapons that can face similar ammo issues with their small magazines and ammo reserves (ex. Prisma Angstrum) But it is something that could be a definite benefit if one might not want to be tied down to the carrier seeming like such an absolute requirement when dealing with such ammo intensive weapons. Ammo maximum (reserve ammo) such as Ammo Drum could also be a candidate for a small quality of life weapon Exilus mod.

Mods that increase or decrease zoom such as Overview, Eagle Eye, Aero Periphery. There are some niche occasions when a person would like less zoom, or more zoom while aiming or aim gliding. The only way to reasonably fit that in is from a riven, but even then such utility does not offer much else. Definitely a strong candidate for a weapon Exilus mod given its niche. Also note Agile Aim in being related to a small movement benefit while aiming.

Status Duration mods such as Continuous Misery, which offers up to +100% status duration. Can be helpful for longer radiation based confusion, puncture based enemy damage reduction, stagger etc. It can however offer some increased damage due to slash procs lasting longer, but overall a niche mod to increase benefits the effects of status infliction on enemies over time.

 

Before moving on to the most unique of mods. I would like to mention silencer mods such as Hush, Suppress, and Silent Battery. Although it could be argued that these would make too sizable an impact in performance if any weapon could be 100% silenced without directly affecting damage output. I feel it does not, since if anyone is not using a silenced weapon, or if you or a companion are successfully spotted and the enemy fire a single shot, or otherwise alert any nearby enemies the stealth of a silenced weapon is already broken, and it would quickly devolve to a brawl anyways. It would just be handier for more easily getting the initial drop on enemies, or possibly offering a wider variety of stealth based weapons and options. Silenced weapons from Exilus slots might be a strong contender for a top Exilus mod so discussion will likely be needed.

 

There is a long list of mods that offer unique effects in a wide range. So I will simply have to list some of the mods and have discussion over them as I do not use many of these to begin with and cannot offer proper feedback on their performance of feasibility as a would be Exilus mod.

 

Bow: Thunderbolt 30%  chance to explode

Sniper: Target Acquired, Sharpshooter, Harkonar Scope

Melee: Healing return, Guardian Derision, Energy Channel, FInishing Touch, Gladiator Rush, Quick Return

 

What probably shouldn't be an option for a weapon Exilus mod.

There are a few things such as mods that directly affect reload speed and magazine capacity like Primed Quickdraw offering up to +88% reload speed and Primed Slip Magazine offering up to +55% magazine size that should not get the option to be an Exilus mod. They would have too large of an impact directly on sustained DPS, if anyone feels otherwise for these or similar mods do mention them and explain why you feel they should be a potential weapon Exilus Mod.

 

If you have any thoughts, interest, feedback, or discussion on this topic please leave your comments below.

[Railjack Screenshake]

I agree! The screen shake is really out of hand for some things and needs to be resolved somehow. It is one thing for a screen shake, maybe even a heavy one once in a while from say mortars landing, makes it feel more awesome and give a sense of magnitude, if only happens rarely its not a problem. But then we have a pretty heavy and frequent screen shake from firing some particular weapons, its a huge problem. After a simple usage of roughly 1 hour of Pyrana Prime to rank it up to 30 by the end when I was getting up I was quite dizzy. That is not good! Pretty bad in fact (is that motion sickness?), it caused that in such a short amount of time can you imagine extended usage? I don't know how some are okay with that, and haven't pointed this out (maybe some have and I missed it). Tiberon prime has a similar but not as bad issue with its auto fire mode in that regard. There are probably others I don't know about but players who know should bring those up.

Things like the Soma can get a bit unweildly and unpredictable but at least its not violent, bobbing up and down, and all over the place. So it isn't really a problem. But you get things like Pyrana bouncing up and down and the Tiberon prime set to auto, then you start getting these problems. I have no real good solutions, I can only voice my complaint and say, this is a big issue not to be underestimated! 

I sincerely want a developer to get a Pyrana prime, shoot at things in activities such as Hierarchon (excavation) on Pluto to onslaught for 1 to 2 hours using it as your primary weapon. You will see, this is not good, and the constant heavy shaking has some bad effects on people. Especially when you have the completely necessary mod Lethal Torrent (+60% fire speed +60% multishot)

One idea I had was for either a fixed camera on the Warframe excluding weapon recoil, You could still see your Warframe recoiling with the gun, but the camera will not shake with it. Basically meaning the gun and frame will be like normal, but the camera will not follow it, there is a problem with how to address the aiming reticle with the camera change though, as well as the impact it would have on the satisfactory feeling of recoil on a gun.

Another was a more loose camera on the Warframe that will NOT follow the gun's recoil as rigidly, you could probably have a reticle bloom to show a predicted field for a gun to shoot. Although I can't think of perfect way to implement this while satisfying a beefy recoil for a satisfactory effect and having a good aiming sight, it is probably the one of the best compromises between recoil and screen shake, but would of course require some work into putting in the new reticle bloom system and such.

[Auto cycling burst fire in gameplay options]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

This can't be an option. Either semi-auto weapons get locked to a max fire rate and will fire as essentially a slow full-auto weapon and need to be balanced around this new fact or nothing changes.

If this were added, why would you use semi-auto weapons over full-auto?

An argument from hardware use is not a great angle.
Playing any games that increase the workload of the video card means the life of it is shortened. Should Warframe now become a 2D browser game?
Moving your frame requires use of keys on your keyboard or using the stick on your controller. Should Warframe now be on rails to minimize damage?

I even mentioned I am referring to burst fire weapons and how adding it to semi-auto defeats the purpose of its single shot mechanic ... That being said conversely speaking, why use semi-auto or burst fire weapons when there is full auto?

I also never mean anything like putting "Warframe on rails to minimize damage" which is something you would have to explain. But simply, an option that some would find more convenient and easy to use, and what i feel would make a better experience, like how there is one to simply toggle crouch per press instead of holding it, toggle sprint, or to aim would be a toggle instead of a hold. These are examples of such options that work better for some than others, which some may not like at all. Such differences are FAR more prevalent to console users as they could have any number of different control schemes, especially for FPS games. the button X could go from jumping to reloading to switching weapons depending on what of the many presets they would have available. It gets even weirder, or at least to me, when the trigger gets turned into the grenade toss and the bumper becomes the shoot button.

I may not have clarified or phrased something properly to cause you to misunderstand. But what I am referring to is the ability of burst fire weapons to fire another round of bursts as we hold down the mouse. I am not saying for it to necessarily fire at full speed like an automatic weapon, but to fire more rounds automatically while we hold down the fire button, after reasonably a small amount of time to be able to become more feasible against groups of enemies, while not too slow where you question if its worth using at all (ex. you find yourself with a target locked on and awkwardly staring at it while aiming,impatiently waiting for it to fire another burst salvo)

We almost always find ourselves battling groups, which may be comparable to an endless zombie hoard, but some of which have guns. Should your burst fire weapon be able to refire sooner than the reasonably small amount of time, you could just rapidly click to maximize the fire rate as per normal. A good example to imagine the difference and handiness of it all being the Burston Prime, you should be able to see the difference with simply adding Gilded Truth with up to +80% fire rate +1 truth, as it is a good mod for a few reasons. It fires its bursts practically with the speed like a Quartakk does (speed between bullets in its burst). You don't necessarily want it to fire all these bursts rapidly, but to be able to fire them repeatedly at a steady pace while putting less strain on players and in-tandem their mice over an extended period of time, it would be a fantastic addition for those interested such as myself. While I do have concerns for my mouse's longevity, due to events that transpired sometime back, the most prominent reason for me raising this issue is what I as the player have to do input wise to make shooting these things happen.

 

Your example of Warframe to a 2D browser game is not only exaggerated but also inapplicable to this scenario. This isn't so much of necessarily just the amount of workload on the hardware, but more of something that is done to both the hardware and the players. Your fingers and hands get tired from doing all the activity to perform such actions as well, the numbers just really show how much both go through over time. You can't really give a number of times you click a mouse without saying how many times the mouse was clicked after all. Would you really want to repeatedly use a weapon that would have you pushing buttons like rapidly channel flicking over extended periods of time? I sure don't, even if I do like the weapon for many reason's otherwise.

57 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

Ever heard of the Arca Plasmor?

Yes, however I wouldn't want to be constrained to only a single weapon of what would be one player's choosing. Just as you like that weapon for your reasons, I like other weapons for other reasons, even though they may not live up to what I would hope they would for any number of large or small reasons.

[Auto cycling burst fire in gameplay options]

• What do you like? I like weapons that would be able to take down an enemy or a group of enemies without having to click repeatedly for each enemy, and each shot. I also like ammo efficiency, like a nice burst fire weapon,  Thankfully the new weapon revamp made many of them viable weapons now, as well as many others of course. I liked things like the SCAR from Left 4 Dead 2, or the XR-2 from Call of Duty Black ops 3 which auto cycles its bursts as you hold down the trigger. This is actually something that I really liked and really raises a good quality of life concept that I feel would be really important for several reasons.

 

• What do you dislike/What is the issue? As many of us know, in Warframe you will often find yourself fighting groups of enemies, some of which could take several bursts or many rounds to take down an enemy with what could be called an overshield of the arctic eximus and corpus nullifier fields. This being said it can get pretty undesirable to have to click or otherwise press your fire button more than once per enemy, all the more given there are often upwards of 100 per mission. I get that normally a burst fire or semi-auto weapon is one shot per pull of the trigger be it for precision, ammo efficiency, or fire rate. This is actually a big quality of life issue due to the life expectancy of mice, as in a single mission if using a burst or semi-auto weapon you will find yourself clicking many hundreds of times, even to upwards to that of a thousand per mission. Meanwhile automatic weapons can complete said mission with a fraction of the amount of mouse clicks. A group of 5 to 10 enemies could be taken down with simply holding the mouse button and firing, meanwhile a burst or semi-auto weapon would take between roughly 1 and 5 clicks on average (depending on eximus, overshield, missing shots etc.) These are very important things to consider given that in a PvE perspective, its basically often hoards, especially when considering extended play sessions.

Understanding the problem from a hardware perspective:

You may wonder what I mean about life expectancy of mice, well to give you an example of hardware expectancy, you could get a simple keyboard for $10~20 USD and it would last a few years to come (good job keyboard manufacturers!) they will even often tell you how many millions of keystrokes their expected lifespan is However computer mice do not last as long, in fact you'll find many even gloss over how long they last! I have had a simple mouse last only a few months to half a year before clicking starts acting funny, such as double clicking when I only click once, sometimes not reacting to me clicking at all, and even stop reading me holding the mouse down. No this isn't in a game, it is even from normal desktop usage, it got pretty noticeable. Meanwhile other fancier "gaming" mice can last years, though once again, many don't really make promises on their reliability, I have had issues with other Logitech hardware, and heard stories of how Razer cuts corners in manufacturing in a longevity/reliability sense to cut manufacturing costs, I haven't owned a Razer gaming mouse before but I have my reservations about them, all the more given any mouse of theirs I look up, I can't seem to find an expected clicks durability rating. All this being said, it should be simple enough to see that less clicking means more lifetime of a mouse, which is really nice as they are often more expensive ($20~100+), if not substantially more expensive than keyboards, depending on what fancy seemingly overpriced model your getting.

Understanding the problem from a statistical perspective:

I decided to google how much the average user may click per day, I assume this is from a non-gaming standard as it was almost 8000 per day, that is almost 3 million clicks per year. Now, what if we added FPS gaming into that mix? Untested estimates based on number of enemies in an extermination mission(s) and a burst fire or semi-auto weapon have me at roughly 1000 or more per 10 to 30 minutes (about 500 clicks per round) I can only begin to imagine what a survival or the like would cause. . I would appreciate the community making efforts to track how much their burst fire or semi-auto weapons would be clicked and posting them here. From there we can calculate how many clicks Warframe alone would have us doing. This isn't just about how many times the mouse is being clicked, its about how much our fingers have to do the clicking too! Hand cramps and joint pains anyone?

Understanding the problem from a player's perspective:

As a player with a fondness of burst fire weapons, and even semi-auto in most cases. This is a game where you will almost always find yourself fighting small or even large groups of enemies at a time, this is especially true when fighting the infested who have a wide range of enemies from the infested tanky ancient healers, numerous charges and other infested units, a variety of eximus units, especially the Grineer heavy gunners. Much of the time you'll find yourself attacking and being attacked by several units at once. This is especially true for survival, defense, and possibly even defection.

Any mission will have players fighting upwards of 100 enemies most of the time, only in extermination do you only sometimes have a requirement of killing less than 100 enemies. For any number of reasons I'll have to click to shoot my burst fire weapon which could be a Burston prime, a Tiberon, Hema, Syabris Prime, etc. Maybe even something like one of the variants of a Latron. Any of these weapons can often take more than 1 burst fire to take an enemy around level 30 or 40 down (with exception to Sybaris Prime, as its more damage per shot than others on that list). This is of course before deciding to go the whole mile to add the Orokin catalyst and forma to completely build them to their potential, but by which point is for sortie enemies at twice the level or more. This being said, it can quickly get exhausting to have to click like a madman, especially when under siege of numerous enemies that can really lay on the hurt, such as the scorch, the glass cannon infested ospreys with their toxin clouds, an Oxium Osprey before it decides to crash into you and cost you that oxium, those tanky enemies from the Plains of Eidolon with rockets on their backs, or maybe even the relatively uncommon Nox. It is basically far more effective and simpler to use a fully automatic weapon to keep unleashing the hurt with a simple holding down of a click, letting go only when necessary to aim at the next target, Being able to more conveniently and satisfyingly have mowed down a small troop of enemy soldiers. Knowing and experiencing that, how can one really want to have to go to doing all that absurd amounts of clicks to even have a remotely comparable damage output, sustainability and versatility? Because I can assure you, your fingers would quickly get tired of extended periods of all that clicking.

Thinking of players whose hands don't work as well as others:

As much as I would like something with ammo efficiency and what should be the versatility of burst fire (between power and accuracy), it is certainly not versatile in these situations. Though I only rarely have had to deal with the ensued cramps and joint pains on a rare occasion. Thinking down this line, I can imagine it being much worse for those who might have some of the more physical related jobs or those with certain conditions or live in certain areas. Such as if its in a cold region (been there), your finger's joints will hurt. If you had a long day doing something physical related like carrying furniture from big TV's, Stereos, chairs/dining sets or other heavy things (I know a friend that likes Warframe, but had gotten blisters in places that shouldn't be getting blisters from all that ...), hauling things to and fro, construction, etc. You could have cramps and/or joint pains, or other conditions. But what if we all just want to unwind on a nice shooter? It can put some tough or uncomfortable spot. So not only is it for a smoother experience, its also for accessibility for those it might be applicable for!

• How would you fix/improve it? The simplest way I can think of fixing it is adding an option in the game play options menu to toggle on auto-burst cycling as we hold down the fire button, So that those who may want it would have it available. This probably shouldn't affect conclave for complex pvp interactions and relations. I do not play conclave so I cannot offer feedback in that field, but I understand it can be touchy. I won't touch on semi-auto as introducing an auto mechanic to that is somewhat contradictory to the very core of the single shot semi-auto mechanic, even if it might help in a quality of life stance.

There are a few small details that would leave things in an oversight, such as how Gilded Truth is a great mod for Burston Prime builds, its +80% fire rate may make auto-cycling a bit complicated since it would fire like a fully automatic weapon that would vaporize its magazine like Twin Grakatas if it went full throttle. So for the auto cycling should probably be a fixed half second (0.5) or roughly three quarters a second ( between 0.6 or 0.75). Burst fire weapons are pretty stable, and have a pretty quick refire from my experience, so it should work wonders. On the off chance semi-auto come into the picture, keep in mind there are high recoil, high power weapons like the Lex prime and Aklex prime which would need to be fired approximately every 0.75 seconds to hit reliably, as although it can shoot roughly every half second, the recoil would be exceptionally high.

 

Afterword:

I hope there are other players that are with me on this quality of life issue, after all, not only would it make for what I feel would be smoother game play, it would also help hardware longevity. With this being said I hope others can help contribute to this feedback and also offer their support. Who knows, it might even make it into the game! Though I understand the developers have many things on their plates, I still hope this manages to make it into the game sometime soon.

[Tennobaum gifting center]

Tennobaum wishlist ... I just recently found out how super helpful Zenurik can be, it also happens to be the one focus tree I can't seem to get a lens for ... that being said. Anyone generous enough to fulfill a wishlist? I'm also looking forward to the Galatine Solstice skin and the big reveal for the final Tennobaum gift from DE this year.

*Redone with new jokes I was thinking about.

 

Humble Tennobaum wishlist with jokes in honor of the famous red text.

Greater Zenurik Lens - Look classy with latest glasses brought to you by Zenurik!

Titania Noble animation set - Flaunt it with style, then defy gravity and twirl!

Orokin color pallet - Latest fashion mags say your previous color pallet was totally two seconds ago!

Orokin Reactor - You know an Orokin was wondering where they put that thing to recharge stuff.

Orokin Catalyst - Not the kind you put in a science experiment.

Stasis slot - Not to be used to keep food fresh.

 

Not so humble Tennobaum Wishlist (One can dream right?)

Hunhow's Gift - Stalker, why not share with the whole class?

Nekros Ikralla Collection - You know he needed a makeover, Nekros had the fashion sense that expired ages ago.

 

[Tennobaum gifting center]

Its Tennobaum ... and Merry Christmas! May there be a delicious feast! I know I love me a grandly glazed ham!

 

If anyone is feeling generous enough for fulfilling a wishlist: (with small jokes in parenthesis)

---------------------------------------------------------

Hunhow's gift - Because between trying to get the War and the unique nifty armor, that's pretty awesome. (If I get one! I'll wear it better!)

Nekros Ikralla collection - Because everything about that set looks awesome (Either became part night light, or lord of the night.)

Operator suit collection - It would be nice to customize the operator more. (Fashion!)

Titania Noble animation set - You have to admit that looks great on almost anything (Tinkerbell wishes she had that gracefulness.)

Orokin color pallet - It has the best golds (What do you think a zombie leprachaun eats? Gold, need Gooooold!)

Orokin Reactor - Never have enough of these things! (might be part sweet potato) @quadbit Thanks! You didn't say it came with marshmallows!

Orokin Catalyst - Just like Reactor's, could always use more! (could be a baked potato)

Stasis slots - Why not have a cute baby kavat or kubrow as a pet? ... and of course just having enough for each type of both. (So cute and cuddly enemies die from adorableness overload)