Ruriko
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Posts posted by Ruriko
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I think that they are saying is that these items, which are indeed core parts of this game, will not become available until possibly the end of mercury (assuming they're going to continue the view that mercury is a starting player playground to learn the game and its various mission types). To be honest, this is going to have no effect on the new player base as they tend to A. Not the credits available to just do fusion, B. Don't have the resources necessary to make things in the foundary until AT LEAST Venus, and C. Not grasp the mod system at all until they get to Vor.
I'm actually in favor of this. Keep the emphasis on learning the core mechanics and add the extra goodies as their understanding of the game grows.
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Shameless Bump to my own thread. This update brought some minor changes to each section as to reflect Melee 2.0 and the removal of the Stat Helms. I also went back and changed some of the sections by adding new loadout pictures and by adjusting existing weapon loadouts. I had planned to include Loki, Valkyr, and Ash sections in this update, but after three crashes, I've lost the mood for the day. Stay Tuned for them to appear in a future update.
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Most people overlook this but this is actually in game. Rhino has a mastery rank requirement of 4 before he can be built or purchased (Or at least he did back in U7). All the OP is saying is apply that to other frames as well. In truth, I happen to actually agree with this.
You could tier the frames on a fairly simple series.
No requirement: Loki, Mag, Excalibur, Ash, Ember, Volt
Rank 2 Requirement: Frost, Oberon, Hydroid, Banshee, Saryn
Rank 4 Requirement: Rhino, Valkyr, Nyx, Zephyr
Rank 6 Requirement: Trinity, Nova, Nekros, Vauban
Note that the most abused frames (Sans Rhino, since there is a precedent for it already) have the highest rank requirement. This prevents people from raising the argument that there aren't enough frames to level up easily.
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I understand where you are coming from. Frost was the first frame I dedicated myself to trying to master, but I have to say I disagree with your feelings on this subject. I've followed the forums and livestreams closely, and the Devs have openly discussed ideas that they've had to improve Frost such that he is seen for more than Snow Globe.
Freeze does need some work and is easily the worst ability in the game by a vast margin. I make no effort to deny this, but I do not think that improving the speed or making it an AoE will deal with this issue at all. The very design of Freeze, as an ability, works against the very game dynamics that exist. There is literally no point in using a skill that is immediately ended by damage. The only fair thing that DE could do is drop Freeze entirely and replace it with a new skill.
As for Snow Globe, I believe you may be under the same false impression that I was: That Frost's armor is multiplied and then that value becomes the armor value of the Snow Globe. This is not how it works. Instead, Frost's Armor directly increases the health of your Snow Globe by a value equal to 5x that of your armor. Currently, no one is sure if this value is added before Power Strength or after, but my hunch is most definitely the latter. If it was added before, the Armor value that transfers over would be beyond the potential of a maxed Blind Rage.
As for Avalanche, contrary to your experiences, they did make this ability faster and more powerful. The animation time is roughly half what it used to and it deals about 20-30% more damage per casting. What you're experiencing is the limited use of Ice in terms of an element. Virtually everything in this game takes reduced damage from Cold (With the notable exceptions being Shields and Ancient Healers). What you are experiencing is the aftermath of Damage 2.0. This is not an issue with the ability, but with the element of Ice/Cold.
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.... Ugh, major facepalm incoming.
So yeah, I was using WFBuilder to fiddle with the energy efficiency to make a 25 energy snowglobe. Unfortunately, WFBuilder incorrectly shows SG as having a 75 energy cost, and I raaaan with that without double checking. My bad.
After this discussion, I've revised my high level def builds.
I think I'm gonna start using http://goo.gl/3TnLH6 for the strongest possible globe @ 25 energy (this time for real!) or http://goo.gl/61C6nv for better survivability.
I'll keep the 40 second globe for lower level stuff tho, cast+roam is more fun/beneficial/possible then.
While in general more efficiency is better than more damage, this holds true only for abilities that cannot be spammed. SG falls under both categories, both in that it can be refreshed once destroyed and yet can't be (*shouldn't be) stacked for higher damage reduction with multiple casts.
So with the argument that a stronger globe is more important than an efficient one, because the pod/teammates are vulnerable when its down, Blind Rage isnt a bad option. However when looking for maximum energy efficiency, BR rank 2 is ideal
+72% PS (30 Intensify +27 BR +15 Squall) +75% Efficiency (+60%FE+30%Str-15% BR) and +110% armor from SF gives 8015 absorption for 12.5 energy, or 641.2 damage/energy.
A lower cost on SG, irrelevant of the power strength gain/loss, will also give higher damage absorbed / energy due to a higher % uptime of the absorbing/invuln period...
If I didn't use Carrier I would definitely go for 75% efficiency using only BR Rank 2. Because I do, I'll be aiming for 50% efficiency.
+117% Power Strength, +30% Duration, +50% Efficiency, and +110% Armor.
3500 x 1.17 = 4095
399 x 5 = 1995
Final Strength: 3500 + 4095 + 1995 = 9590 Health for 25 Energy.
Strength-To-Cost Ratio: 384 to 1
I find this build to be extremely respectable. It is an excellent middle ground between our builds, combining a high health pool with low energy consumption. I honestly feel that by focusing in on the 25 Energy cost, you have actually found a very flexible build that is useful at all level ranges. Your other proposed idea would be fun to play around with for low level defense missions, but aside from independent survival, I don't really see how it could outdo the former concept. Generally, anything that isn't a danger to your snow globe isn't going to be a danger to Frost. This build also provides more health than a maxed blind rage, by a minor amount without nearly the penalty (+100HP at 15 fewer energy)
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Size is an issue of opinion. While I agree that too large or too small is an issue, I think either base size or -21% range works equally well for most purposes... while a larger globe works for better absorption during the 4 seconds and a larger area to play with, a smaller globe works better when you're precasting, as it takes less damage from undirected fire. In addition, moas in particular will run just inside a regular size globe, while remaining outside the -21% range globe. The slow field is unaffected by range, and I do like that the snare starts right before the globe.
That's an excellent point and something else that I failed to consider. That is a tactical advantage in a Snow Globe of slightly smaller-than-normal size that I had not really considered. As for the Slow Field, I still think that the fact that the field doesn't shrink with the globe is an unintended bug. Otherwise, it is a very brilliant use of Snow Globe in a way I had not considered.
And yet the build you posted uses just SG and Avalanche? And the use of SF literally only boosts a single ability?Much like how Size is more based in opinion than not, Armor also falls into this category. I openly admitted this is my take on the traditional and overly common "Snow Globe Only" build. Avalanche is my safeguard against the enemies that dare to enter my globe. Avalanche's footprint is roughly the same as Snow Globe's at regular size, allowing me to deal with the vast number of enemies that trespass within its protective walls. Given that Ice damage is basically the worst of the elements against anything that isn't a shield, alloy plate, or sinew flesh, this only provides a limited means of combat. The brief freeze time that follows, however, is usually enough to deal with them.
After my next Forma, it is my intention of adding Ice Wave as it is actually my favorite Frost ability and my attack of choice from his skill set. I do have a vacant Scratch Slot in my build that needs something and it sure won't be Freeze.
Is your 630 more health worth costing 2x as much energy? IMO I would go right to full BR with the same orb cost and ~2.2k more health.Actually, your Snow Globes cost 15 energy, not 25. +60% (Fleeting Expertise, Rank 5), +30% (Streamline, Rank 5) make +90%. You are losing 20% from Rank 3 Blind Rage, giving you a total of 70% Efficiency. Snow Globe costs 50 Energy, which at a 70% reduction brings the cost to 15 energy per casting.
My build costs 20 Energy. +60% from Fleeting Expertise, +30% from Streamline, and -30% from Blind Rage Rank 5 gives me a total of 60% Efficiency, resulting in cost being 20 Energy per casting.
Revisiting the Health for a moment, if you look at my earlier post where I compared Your Build, My Build, and Friedricetheman's Build Post Max Blind Rage, you'll see that the difference in the health of our Snow Globes is actually more than 630. It is 1390. For 5 additional energy, I would argue that it is actually worthwhile to invest in Steel Fiber, Max Rank or Not. If my Steel Fiber was max Rank, assuming everything else remaining the same, It would provide an additional 285 Health. This would result in a Strength-To-Cost ratio of 448 to 1.
There is no way you could possibly maintain a 25 energy cost if you were to upgrade to a max rank Blind Rage. Frost simply does not have the capability of offsetting a -55% Efficiency through mods that are only capable of reaching +90%. At best, you'd be resigning yourself to 35% Energy Efficiency in exchange for that extra strength, which means 32.5 -> 33 Energy per casting. While you are gaining 2205 extra health, you're also dropping your Strength-To-Cost ratio to 292 to 1, a massive drop from your current 486 to 1.
You have given me quite a bit to reflect on. Thank you for correcting my misunderstandings. Also, I haven't figure out how to really make the Multi-quote work. My apologies for the fact that these quotes do not name you directly, Darzk.
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Hi guys,
Thanks for all your input. So, from what I have gathered so far, Blind Rage is better than Steel Fiber as it adds more to snow globe's health?
Should I go R5 Blind Rage or Maxed Blind Rage? Will maxed blind rage makes snow globe a bit too much to cast? Should I forma the aura to - for energy siphon if I go blind rage?
I would strongly recommend using a Forma to change your Aura Polarity to Bar and use Energy Siphon if only because of how Frost is designed. He is effectively a Heavy Caster/Mage Tank. It is ultimately up to you to decide if you really want the extra 45% Power Strength. You will offset almost all the benefit of a max rank Fleeting Expertise to gain that power, coming up with 35% Power Efficiency if you are also using a Max Streamline. Assuming you are using both of these mods at rank 4, You'll only have 20% Power Efficiency.
3500 x 1.44 = 5040. This is the bonus provided by your Power Strength if you go this route.
190 x 5 = 950. This is the bonus provided by Frost's armor.
Final Strength: 3500 + 5040 + 950 = 9490 Health for 40 Energy.
Ratio of Power to Energy Cost: 237 to 1
Assuming you have 35% Efficiency from a max rank Streamline and Fleeting Expertise with a Max rank Blind Rage, your Ratio of Power to Energy Cost becomes 292 to 1.
Using the build provided by Darzk:
3500 x .81 = 2835.
190 x 5 = 950
Final Strength: 3500 + 2835 + 950 = 7285 health for 15 energy
Ratio of Power to Energy Cost: 486 to 1
Using the build I provided:
3500 x .99 = 3465
342 x 5 = 1710
Final Strength: 3500 + 3465 + 1710 = 8675 health for 20 Energy
Ratio of Power to Energy Cost: 434 to 1.
Based on these equations, I would argue that going with a maximum rank Blind Rage is actually a very bad idea. Even though I disagree with his design, I must admit that Darzk's build is the strongest one proposed thus far based on the power of his Snow Globe vs the Energy necessary to use the ability. With that said, the choice is ultimately yours, but I strongly advise against taking Blind Rage any higher than Rank 5.
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Then I stand corrected in that regard. I am mistaken about how Armor affects health.
With that clarification, My build has 8675 Health base before absorption is taken into account.
Your correction of my incorrect assumption has given me room for pause, as now I am curious if Armor or Power Strength is taken into account first. If Armor is considered first, then even this number is flawed. Working with the stats from my build: 3500 Base + 1710 from armor = 5210 Health. 5210 x .99 = 5157.9 which would be rounded to 5158 in game. 5210 + 5158 = 10368. The 8675 would only be true if Power Strength is applied first. Unfortunately, I do not have the means to test this in game.
Thank you for the food for thought.
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Darzk,
I am constantly jumping between various frames and the like and only apply forma as necessary to certain frames. I don't feel Frost merits a second Forma yet, as it seems somewhat wasted to aim for additional duration when his snow globe has a certain level of health that causes the effect to end prematurely. The basic 30 seconds is more than sufficient and anything over that is wasted potential against higher level enemies.
Additionally, I find that builds are more fun when they are less hyper-focused on achieving a single goal. This gives me the flexibility to do things outside of being a One Trick Pony, as many players often do with various Frames (Such as Loki, Frost, and Nova). I strongly believe in being flexible with your builds so that you can adapt to various situations instead of relying on a single tactic for a frame. This may seem moot, as I am openly proposing an otherwise OTP build for Frost's Snow Globe. Rather than saying "Here's a build that is all about X with Snow Globe", I'm offering up an extremely balanced option that is more viable than someone who focuses on Duration or Power or Armor alone.
Looking over the build you have offered, I find myself concerned that you are making the push for extra duration. As I have already stated, 30 seconds (or therebouts) is more than enough time on its own. Anything more than that, and you're losing the edge against higher level enemies. Anything less and you run into the gambit of needing to cast it more often which can result in energy issues. Moreover, the loss of size on your Snow Globe is not a benefit. In many ways, it is actually hurting you. A larger snow globe means more protected area for yourself and your allies. It also means that it has a much larger area to be hit by enemies, making it much easier to maximize your Absorption Time. That being said, too much size is equally as bad as too little. The regular size has worked well for me. I may not be able to maximize the absorption phase, but I also don't run the risk of Rapid Burnout due to the massive size either (Or worse, enemies entering the globe en mass, thus virtually negating the benefit of absorbing and blocking damage). The only benefit I see to your build is the Slow Field. By choosing the larger area, along with more Active Defense (Redirection) and the inclusion of Ice Wave, the build you suggested strikes me as a Close-Quarters Frost, with an emphasis on Snow Globe as a last resort.
If your main complaint is that I have not maxed Steel Fiber, then I have little to take away from your suggestion. Given that our builds serve different purposes, I do not feel it is necessary to compare them on a Usable basis. However, I take issue with the claim that your build provides a stronger snow globe, as the following bit of math will prove.
This is my Frost, using the build I mentioned in my original reply. This Screenshot is only to showcase his Stats, as well as my choice of weapon load out to best compliment such a focused style of play.
Let's begin with Snow Globe's Health. At max rank, it has a base health value of 3500. Squall Helm + Intensify (Rank 5) + Blind Rage (Rank 5) = +99% Power Strength. 3500 + (3500 x .99) = 3500 + 3465 = 6965 Health. This is with the build I use. Using the build you linked, you have only +81% Power Strength due to your Rank 3 Blind Rage. 3500 + (3500 x .81) = 3500 + 2835 = 6335 Health. In this regard, my build has more base Health for Snow Globe by 630.
As for Armor, I trust you realize that Snow Globe's armor is equal to 5 times that of Frost's armor. With the build I suggested , Frost has a base armor of 342. 5 x 342 = 1710 armor. Working with the more-or-less proven Mitigation Formula from U11, we can calculate the exact damage reduction. 1 / (1 + (Armor / 300)) -> 1 / (1 + (1710 / 300)) = 1 / (1 + 5.7) = 1 / 6.7 = .1493 or 14.93%. This means for every point of damage that Snow Globe takes, it only takes .1493 damage. To put this into perspective, let's assume a Grineer Bombard's rocket deals 300 damage. 300 x .1493 = 44.79 which is rounded to 45 damage. Due to the revision of Armor in the aftermath of U11, Armor effectively lacks the diminishing returns that it used to and has become a viable stat to consider. At the maximum health that my build can achieve at this time, Snow Globe could handle 154 Rockets against this theoretical Bombard assuming it absorbed 0 damage during its 4 seconds Absorption Phase.
If you have formulas to disprove my math, I welcome it as it will help me to grow as a Frost User. That being said, utilizing only a single forma, I have suggested a far more viable build for Snow Globe. I do not believe such a build would work for every player, as their style of play is their own. It does, however, work for me and my friends in game with no issue and I encourage all players to find and develop builds that suit their style of play the best.
I offered my build as a guide to help a fellow Frost user grow as a player, not to validate my experience. The best advice I can offer all Frost users is not to ignore all your potential benefits. Also, be careful not to Overstack on Power Efficiency. A lot of players don't see the benefit in keeping a Rank 2 Streamline around for their Efficiency builds, but saving yourself the extra mod points really makes a difference. It is not always worthwhile to maximize this potential either, as even 60% is potent enough to sustain you in the long run. If you need more information, you're welcome to check out my WIP Project regarding the various frames along with their benefits, weaknesses, and overall balance in the all aspects of the game. You can find the link here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/205347-discussion-wip-frame-balance-and-build-suggestions/#entry2398828
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Welcome to the world of Frost, Friedricetheman.
This is my Frost build. I have the benefit of having a regular sized snow globe with the regular 30 second duration. However, it does have roughly 7000 HP before damage absorption is taken into account and a whopping 1710 Armor. It works very well for me.
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I have to agree with Tatersail on this one. Radial Blind is actually a remarkable ability, but you don't want to have any penalty to Range or Duration in order to really benefit from it. Play around with your equipped mods and try your best to minimize these penalties if you really want Radial Blind to shine.
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Caution: This post is a long WIP. It will be updated regularly. I will update this post as I finish each section.
Current Update: The 13.2.4 Update
Notice: I realize that some of the URL tags are still lingering around some of the pictures. I have decided to leave these alone as every time I remove them, the formatting for this post goes haywire. Sorry for the inconvenience.
I apologize to every in advance. This post is going to be massive and ask that you please bear with it. I have applied spoiler tags for each frame to help make this appear more presentable.
There has been a ton of feedback concerning certain frames, either crying foul over things they believe to be are considered Overpowered or Underpowered. I understand where you are coming from, but very few of you provide any real data to justify your frustration. This thread is meant to give credence to certain points of view while remaining objective as to give fair, honest feedback.
Allow me to begin with a brief explanation of where I am coming from with this. I have been around since Update 7. I've seen how much the current game has matured but know nothing of where it began. I am not an elitist player, chasing the glory of the ultimate build or to be the best there is with a given frame. I don't like using the Supreme Weapons just for the sake of damage. Everything I do is done with purpose and honest reflection to pursue the most viable, sustainable build for each frame that maximizes its potential without stealing the fun away from other people trying to do the exact same thing. A build that is too overpowered strips the fun, the challenge, and the creativity from this game. It is for this reason that I intentionally build frames that have vulnerabilities in one form or another, or do little to overcome their natural weaknesses.
It is worth mentioning that I only recently finished unlocking all the basic frames and am still struggling to complete a few primes. I do not own every weapon either. Although I will give the weapons I do not know honorable mention in builds where they would be suited, I cannot offer advice for builds to adjust them to a specific frame design.
One more thing: If you'd like to laugh at my choices for appearances, feel free. I am an avid fan of the Touhou game series and have painted most of my frames to reflect a Touhou character of similar style and theme.
For this examination, I will show you the build(s) I use for a given frame, explain the reasons why I chose to do it that way, discuss my choice of weapon load outs to support the frame's abilities, and finally rate the frame on four criteria: Power, Survivability, Flexibility, and Balance. I welcome any and all feedback regarding each frame.
Excalibur/Excalibur Prime
Touhou Theme: Youmu Konpaku
When I began the game, I picked Mag as my first frame. However, even though I chose Mag to start things out, it wasn't until I decided to become a Grand Master that I really started to enjoy the game. Excalibur Prime was the first frame I played that met my basic criteria for a frame: Fluid, Fast, and Fun. There was something magical about using Slash Dash as both a swift-evade and a really potent attack. I stopped using Excalibur as time went on, but I went back and rebuild my Excalibur Prime recently to fit the vision I had when I first started.
The Build
After returning to Excalibur after he spent so long collecting dust, I asked myself a simple question: What is Excalibur’s strength by design? He isn’t like Ash, who is pure Ninja (Deception and Swift Murder). He always felt like more of a samurai and that is why I chose to build him as a master of Iaijutsu (Masters of the Blade Draw). This choice of mods seems like I am all over the place, but the truth is that this was given a lot of thought.
For those of you who don’t know, Iaijutsu is a rare practice in Japan these days. Back in the day, it was a sign of incredible status, as they were know to be able to strike down an opponent in the blink of an eye. The strikes were fast, strong, and completely controlled. It was a discipline that required incredible focus and was both feared and revered. To capture this feeling, I chose to build Excalibur with a focus on Power Strength over everything else. If the build had permitted it, I would have added Natural Talent to make it a more accurate portrayal.
By combining Blind Rage (Rank 5), and Intensify, I was able to increase my Power Strength to +84% for the price of losing 30% Energy Efficiency. I countered this energy cost increase by adding Streamline, then added Fleeting Expertise for another 60% efficiency at the cost of losing 60% Power Duration. Since losing Power Duration meant that Slash Dash would only travel a very small distance and that Radial Blind would not be the potent CC that it is, I added Narrow Minded (Rank 5) to recover this lost duration. The loss of Range caused by Narrow Minded meant I would lose the advantage of every single skill I had, so I added Stretch to recover the lost range. To round out the build, I added Vigor to give Excalibur some shield and health and opted to use the Rifle Amp as my mod of choice.
Although people would argue that I should Forma the aura slot to allow for Energy Siphon, I do not feel this is necessary. People assume that Energy Siphon is the be-all-end-all aura for every frame in the game, but unless you are attempting to make an ability spammer, this is completely untrue. Excalibur’s 150 Energy lasts quite awhile when you have 60% Energy Efficiency. It helps that you don’t just resort to spamming abilities for no reason. Careful understanding of your build and the right loadout to complement it can make a great deal of difference in keeping your energy levels high.
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+84% Power Strength
+60% Power Efficiency
+3% Power Duration
+3% Power Range
+120% Shields
+120% Health
+27% Rifle Damage (Aura)
Please note that if you have the Pendragon Helmet with bonus stats, you get +15% Power Strength for -5% Armor.
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Excalibur’s abilities merit a combination of a Mid-to-long range weapon and a close-range weapon. Depending on your tastes, you may prefer a close range primary, such as a Shotgun, with a mid-to-long range sidearm, such as the Akstellito or Lex. However, given how Sidearms are generally more powerful than their main hand counterparts due to mods, I prefer my mid-to-long range weapon to be my primary weapon as to benefit from Rifle Amp. Weapons like the Hind or the Burston Prime are great choices for this as they deal very good damage with high accuracy and are quite ammo efficient. Unfortunately, this limits your sidearm options to either heavy hitting, rapid fire weapons or shotgun-like weapons. The Bronco and Akbronco series of weapons (That means the Prime versions are also options) are very potent complements to Excalibur, with the Brakk and the Detron being the top-tier weapons if you have them due to their high strength and reasonable accuracy.
For me, I found that the Burston Prime + Bronco Prime formed a very fitting combo for this build. As I closed ranks, I could land multiple headshots with the Burston Prime, then use an ability like Radial Blind or Slash Dash to give me an opportunity to mop up any enemies with the Bronco Prime. I am still trying to get the Akbronco Prime, which I feel will be more suited to this loadout.
For Melee Weapons, Excalbur’s options are really limitless. He can use all manner of melee weapon with high effectiveness thanks to Radial Blind. Depending on your tastes, you can choose from any melee weapon you really enjoy. I picked the Dual Ether because of how well it fit with Youmu's character. The Swirling Tiger Stance is a beautiful stance that really captures the essence of what it means to be the fastest swordsman in Gensokyo.
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Excalibur is neither bulky enough to be tanky nor incredibly powerful enough to stand alone. His armor is better than most non-tank frames by a pretty hefty margin, but it isn't high enough to be worth investing in over another enhancement. He has an average amount of energy, average health and shields, average armor, and average speed. He is a very neutral frame in terms of his stats, making him a jack-of-all-trades: A frame of many talents but a master of none, but therein lies his greatest strength.
The fact that most frames need a balance of Strength, Duration, and Range to maintain the flexibility needed to be workable should hinder Excalibur's potential. He is a frame that is best suited for a single design, such as a Duration Build made around Radial Blind, or a Damage Build that gives Excalibur the ability to destroy enemies effortlessly with Slash Dash and Radial Javelin. However, it is this very thing that makes Excalibur so great as a starting frame. He is naturally so flexible that he can adapt to many different play styles. He is essentially the “Red Mage” of Warframe. If you’re willing to work for it, he can do a lot.
If I had to pick one ability that I would consider to be Excalibur’s best, it would definitely be Radial Blind. Packing a 25m radius at maximum rank, this skill stuns all enemies for 5 seconds and blinds them for 10 seconds. This is enough time for you to escape when you are badly outnumbered, or just shut off heavy incoming damage. This ability also has the ability to hit enemies behind cover and even behind walls. Enemies that are blind do little more than wander around aimlessly, unsure of what to do. They respond to gunfire by blindly shooting in that general direction, meaning they aren’t likely to hit you that much while they are affected. Some of them might throw grenades at you (which they do with surprising accuracy for being blind), so that is probably your only real worry. If you’re an opportunistic person, you can also take advantage of the time where enemies are stunned with this skill to deal 4x normal melee damage to them. This skill is incredible, both defensively and offensively, as it creates opportunities to protect yourself, destroy your enemies, or get out a bad situation.
When choosing the build that is right for you, decide what abilities you want to use first, then make your build around making those abilities outstanding. Don’t worry about stats you don’t feel you will need. I chose my build because I wanted the strength to make Excalibur akin to an Iaijutsu Samurai of old while making sure he could survive even the toughest encounter.
Frame Synergy
Excalibur's roster of skills makes it pair well with a large number of frames: Ash, as it can further enhance his invisibility by giving his enhanced damage a 4x bonus with Radial Blind; Mag, as Radial Javelin and Bullet Attractor is the single most powerful attack in the entire game by a large margin (Maximized Power Build launches 37 Javelins dealing 2440 damage each for a total of 90,280 Damage, which is then doubled to 180,560 damage because of Bullet Attractor's effect). Loki benefits for the same reasons as Ash and can take advantage of Radial Blind to create clones of himself that will draw attention of blind enemies, both while the effect continues and when it wears off. Loki could also be cruel and just steal all those blind fools weapons, leaving them completely defenseless. Volt can take advantage of blind enemies as they wander around clueless, giving him plenty of opportunity to shock large number of enemies with no danger of being hit, or can use Speed to invoke a melee killing frenzy on a group of disabled enemies. Sadly, the Excalibur’s skills does not provide much enhancement or advantage to the rest of the frames, though Radial Blind can still be considered a safeguard to any member of the Cell.
Final Ruling
Power: 3/5. Excalibur is good, but made better with other people. His abilities do not scale well with level, but remains quite useful even as their power begins to wane.
Survivability: 4/5. With average stats for Health and Armor, Excalibur is neither squishy or hard to bring down. His abilities are useful for both offense and defense, giving him an edge in the survivability category.
Flexibility: 3/5. Excalibur is primarily a damage dealer and doesn't really have much in the way of support. However, Radial Blind is one of the most potent abilities in the game, giving much needed support to any cell.
Balance: 4/5. For all the issues people have with Excalibur, he is one of the most balanced frames in the game, combining good damage and speed with control. He supports others decently and is well supported in return. His only flaws are that his damage does not scale well with level and are only brought to their peak by certain other frames. Those things aside, Excalibur is the very definition of what it means for a frame to have true balance in this game. He balances offense, defense, skill, and ease of use better than any other frame currently in the game.
Mag/Mag Prime
Touhou Theme: Komachi Onozuka
Picking Mag as my starter frame back in U7 was a major kick to the head. Because of how her abilities worked, and because Grineer didn’t have shields (unless they were heavies), it meant I had unknowingly handicapped myself in a game I barely understood. My frustration with the frame but the love of the game is what made me become a Grand Master to get all the benefits along with it. Excalibur Prime was the reason I was able to keep going long enough to truly enjoy the game. After Mag got reworked a few updates ago, I revisited my former antithesis and discovered she was incredibly fun to play all the sudden. Everything that I hated about Mag suddenly became what I absolutely loved about her. I needed the understanding that came with experience before I was ready to actually able to truly enjoy Mag. Sadly, the Mag Prime Systems continues to elude me (Damn you, RNG).
The Build
[url=http://s50.photobucket.com/user/angelstar107/media/MagBalancedBuild_zpsc4ec8fe8.jpg.html]
[/url]Much like Excalibur, I asked myself how I should build Mag. It wasn’t very clear to me since I only have a basic understanding of the changes made a few updates ago. However, playing around with her newly tuned abilities gave me enough of an idea to go on. I decided to build Mag around Shield Polarize, which meant I needed power and range.
I added Blind Rage (Rank 5) and Intensify to increase Power Strength by 84%. I added Streamline to combat the -30% Power Efficiency, and then Fleeting Expertise to give me 60% Efficiency as to give Mag some staying power in the energy department. I didn’t want to lose all the power I am was working to get, so I picked Stretch over Overextended. I added Equilibrium (Rank 6) to give Mag an easier time of recovering health and energy, but this left me facing the problem of what to do about Bullet Attractor. With a -60% Duration, Bullet Attractor just wasn’t worth using, so I opted to add Continuity on my scratch slot to reduce this penalty to 30%, leaving me with about a 10 duration, which I felt was very workable.
I decided to Forma Mag’s Aura slot away from the V slot and to a Bar slot to take advantage of Energy Siphon. This still feels like it was a bit overkill, but against massive incoming waves in the void, it actually proves to be a benefit to Mag as I heavily rely on Shield Polarize as both a means of survival and to turn the tide of battle by exploding shields.
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+84% Power Strength
+60% Power Efficiency
-30% Power Duration
+45% Power Range
+17.5 Health/Energy on Energy/Health pick up
+.6 Energy Regeneration (Aura)
Please note that if you have the Coil Helm with Stats, you can benefit from +25% Power Range for -5% Shield Max.
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Power: 3/5. Mag will destroy any enemy that has shields (Corpus and the Void) with brutal effectiveness. Against everything else, she falls short.
Survivability: 4/5. Although Mag is a fragile frame, good use of Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor can easily give Mag the upper hand, making her very difficult to kill.
Flexibility: 4/5. Mag is almost all utility. She can keep her allies shields almost fully topped up while laying waste to shielded enemies all while controlling the incoming damage with Bullet Attractor. A skilled Mag user can actually make her Tanky, but this requires a large amount of skill and she won’t hold up against the other “Tanks” in the game.
Balance: 2/5. Mag is a mixed bag in this category, with Pull and Crush being my only issues. Pull has such incredible reach but THROWS enemies across entire rooms rather than drawing them to close quarters, while Crush is essentially a Mag making a last stand. Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor are her best abilities by a vast margin and it would be nice both Pull and Crush received tweaks to bring them into the balanced category. There is also the small matter that Shield Polarize is quite possibly the best ability in the game as it is currently the only one that scales with level. This makes me question her balance in the game’s structure as she easily stands as one of the three most powerful warframes in the game.
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+.6% Energy Regeneration (Aura)
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
The Build (Forcefield AKA Snow Globe)
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+.6 Energy Regeneration (Aura)
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Power: 2/5. Frost can be made to be quite powerful, but his abilities scale very poorly with level due to his niche element.
Survivability: 5/5. Frost has an incredible amount of shields and armor potential, making him hard to kill. He can also deploy Snow Globe when he needs a moment to recover shields.
Flexibility: 4/5. Frost can be built multiple ways to accomplish a given goal. His abilities have built in control to them, making him a highly flexible utility with a very bad perceived image.
Balance: 2/5. Frost is capable of doing a lot, and rather well, but his abilities do not scale well with level. The limited effective of the ice element, combined with his over-flexibility and limited design makes it difficult call him Balanced. When the heat is on, Frost remains only useful because of Snow Globe.
Touhou Theme: Fujiwara No Mokou
The Ember Build (Kamikaze OTP)
This build gives me the following stat changes:
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
This build gives me the following stat changes:
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Power: 3/5. Ember is very powerful against lower level enemies, but too underpowered against higher level enemies.
Survivability: 1/5. Ember has no true defensive abilities, relying on Accelerant to stun and escape. Her lack of armor, average health, and average shields means she drops quickly if she gets surrounded.
Flexibility: 1/5. There is only one way to play Ember: Aggressively. A passive/defensive Ember is possible, but they are not viable in the mid or long term.
Balance: 2/5. Due to the fact that fire damage scales poorly with level and that this frame can only be played aggressively, she is very unbalanced. Her only reason for getting a 2 and not a 1 is because she destroys low level missions.
Power: 3/5. Ember Prime, like Ember, is very powerful against lower level enemies, but is underpowered against higher level enemies.
Survivability: 2/5. Although Ember Prime still has no defensive abilities, she is more capable of surviving than her original counterpart thanks to adjusted polarities allowing for more durable builds.
Flexibility: 2/5. Ember Prime trading in those two bar polarities for a V and a D expands her potential to be played defensively and offensively, something that could not be easily accomplished by Ember.
Balance: 2/5. Even though Ember Prime gained the ability to be played defensively and has boosted flexibility and survivability over her normal version, she retains the same issue: Fire damage does not scale well with level and World on Fire just dwarfs her other abilities by a vast margin.
Touhou Theme: Reisen Udongein Inaba
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+0.6% Energy Regeneration(Aura)
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Power: 4/5. This score is not a measure of her ability to kill enemies directly, but a measure of her overall strength. Chaos is incredibly powerful, almost too powerful.
Survivability: 4/5. Even though Nyx lacks armor to reduce damage, her abilities greatly reduce the amount of damage coming her way. It makes it very easy for her to survive even as the enemy levels break 50.
Flexibility: 1/5. Much like how Ember can only be played Aggressively, Nyx can only be played defensively. Her abilities lack the the strength to give her offensive capabilities and are more attuned for disrupting combat than ending it.
Balance: 3/5. Nyx is a remarkable frame that broke the perception I had about her. However, her lack of fair offensive capabilities, and an Ultimate ability that is designed to be offensive but incapable of being anything close to that means that her balance is called into question. She excels as controlling the flow of battle and it would be nice if her other two skills could be adjusted to fit with that design.
This build gives me the following stat changes:
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
This build gives me the following stat changes:
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Measuring Rhino’s synergy is complicated. Rhino, being the bruiser he is, lacks the ability to have synergy with frames, but yet he somehow still does in the form of the ‘Stasis’ created by Stomp. By temporarily immobilizing enemies, he creates vast opportunities for other frames to abuse the helpless masses of badly battered foes. This is the very limit of his synergy. While Roar is a support ability, it does not combine with other warframe abilities to create something new and enhanced. That being said, Rhino and Valkyr have the Bad &#! Beatstick Combo going with Roar and Warcry, giving their allies +50% Armor, +50% Attack Speed, and +50% Damage before Power Strength is taken into account. With the right builds, these numbers actually grow to over +100%, which makes for an extremely potent buff for their 15-ish second durations.
Power: 4/5. Rhino is a highly adept killing machine. That which he cannot kill outright dies as they tumble helplessly in stasis. His abilities do not scale well with level, but the secondary effect from Rhino Stomp will always give you a tactical edge. Also, Iron Skin is ridiculous, with or without enhancement.
Survivability: 5/5. Between Iron Skin, Rhino Stomp, and his two natural D polarities for mods like Vigor and Redirection, Rhino is incredible difficult to kill.
Flexibility: 3/5. Rhino is a Tank, tried and true, but he actually can be used to support his friends when he isn’t busy being Rambo.
Balance: 4/5. Rhino is fast, difficult to kill, and easy to kill things with. He can be used defensively or offensively, and fits very well with Rambo players. His only reason for not getting 5/5 is that the Rambo playstyle is insulting to everyone else. No frame should condone bad behavior, but Rhino just about rewards it. In the design of the game, he is the very definition of God-Like, and that isn’t always a good thing.
This build gives me the following stat changes:
+0.6% Energy Regeneration(Aura)
Weapon Loadout and Build Stats
Frame Strengths and Weaknesses
Power: 4/5. Trinity’s abilities are some of the most impressive in the game, covering the full gambit of recovery and ascends into temporary Godhood.
Survivability: 4/5. Although she cannot enter temporary Godhood as frequently and cheaply as Rhino, her roster of skills makes this frail frame one of the hardest to kill.
Flexibility: 2/5. Trinity is heavily invested in supporting her allies and it is very difficult for her to do much else. The only reason she didn’t get a 1 is because a skilled player can turn Link into an incredible lethal offensive ability.
Balance: 4/5. DE designed Trinity far better than most frames. She fills her role well, supporting allies and herself in levels and ways previously thought impossible. Due to their passive nature, all her abilities scale very well with level, but not perfectly. She is proof that being frail doesn’t mean having to be in hiding to survive. Trinity is not afraid to stand on the front line with the best of them.
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Or valkyr
Touché, good sir. Touché. Seriously though, I had sort of assumed Valkyr was a given since her ultimate is more of a state than an actual attack. Although I agree that Ripline would be melee. I should have included Valkyr, though.
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I am trying out a new frost prime build (and enjoying every second of playing it as the Ice Mage concept I dreamed of when I first tried out Frost), but after today's 30 minute survival, I noticed that I had 128 Melee Kills. I know I only killed less than a handful of enemies with my Dual Ichors. Given I killed 450 people during that mission, I can safely say that these counted melee kills must have been coming from Ice Wave and Avalanche.
I don't think this holds true for other frames and their abilities but I am pretty sure that skills shouldn't count as Melee Kills (unless you're Ash).
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So, I decided to try out a new build for my Frost Prime and wanted to try it out on a low level grineer survival. I went to Apollodorus and got a mission in progress. However, immediately after my screen blacked out to bring up the loading screen, I got this instead...
I wasn't quite sure if this was my UI going crazy or something about the matchmaking suffering a breakdown of some kind. I wasn't able to bring up the menu either and had to close the game to exit out of that trippy screen.
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DarkTails,
The reason for pushing beyond that is that the status chance you see is the chance to inflict 1 status. You're fully capable of landing more than that. Weapons like the Tysis go well beyond that, as just using Pistol Pestilence and the new Jolt mod results in 110% Status chance before factoring in Multishot. This means that it will always inflict 1 Status Proc per bullet. It is unclear if it is currently possible to trigger more than one if you exceed the 100%, though most likely not since it would fall under the Critical Hit Chance category.
All the formulas that people have presented thus far in this thread cannot account for an over 100% Status Chance. That's what makes this hunt so interesting. There is a master formula for everything, but the fact that we have different equations for Rifles/Pistols/Shotguns leads me to believe that we haven't found it yet. Everyone thus far has contributed a piece of the puzzle, but we're not quite there yet. :D But soon!
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Pythadragon,
The moment I looked at what you did, I literally slammed my head into my desk. I missed the most obvious approach to this and now that I see it, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you for finally putting an end to my frustration! I can live with feeling really stupid. Thank you greatly for your contribution!
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This may seem like a pointless thread, but I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how Status Chance is actually calculated. This goes beyond the really obvious like that Status Chance increases mods are multiplied into the base status chance of a weapon. Specifically, I'm trying to figure out how Multishot is factored into this calculation. I have yet to figure this out and felt opening this to discussion would allow us to finally figure this out and move onto the REAL question, which I will get to later.
For this discussion, I'd like to focus on the Akstellito, one of the most popular sidearms in use currently. There are a number of reasons for this: 1. It has a good status chance at 15% and 2. Sidearms currently have the highest level of multishot in the game at 180%, making it possible to fire 3 shots for every 1 bullet ammo consumed.
What we currently know is that Status Chance is multiplicative. Using Pistol Pestilence at max rank provides us with a 60% increase in status chance. .15 x .6 = .9 + .15 = .24. This means that an Akstellito using only Pistol Pestilence as a status increasing mod has a 24% Status chance.
Multishot makes this get very weird. I played around with the multishot levels in conjunction with Pistol Pestilence see what the HUD says, but figuring out how the multishot gets into the mix is really confusing and doesn't seem to follow traditional formulas.
What is clear is that these numbers represent the chance that 1 status effect will occur per 1 Bullet ammo consumed. The issue is that how these extra bullets are factored into this isn't clear. I've tried several different probability equations and have successfully managed to make the calculation for Pistol Pestilence + Lethal Torrent work, but it is when Barrel Diffusion is added into the mix that all my equations fail.
If you don't care about the equations or if math makes your head hurt, please ignore this spoiler section.
From the HUD
Pistol Pestilence alone: 24%
Pistol Pestilence + Lethal Torrent: 42.2%
Pistol Pestilence + Lethal Torrent + Barrel Diffusion: 56.1%
Probability of either Bullet 1 or Bullet 2 triggering a status chance: .24 + .24 - .24^2 = .48 - .0576 = .4224 OR 42.24% (This matches the HUD)
Probability of either Bullet 1 or Bullet 2 or Bullet 3 triggering a status chance: .24 + .24 + .24 - .0576 - .0576 - .0576 - (2 x .24^3 = .72 - .1728 - (2 x .013824) = .72 - .1728 - .027648 = .519552 OR 51.9552% (This does not match the HUD which shows 56.1% as the maximum chance of a single status instance)
The reason I turn to the community regarding this is twofold. First, it will help us to better understand how Shotguns determine their Status Chance Per Pellet, as the likelihood of landing every single pellet on your target is very low unless you're point blank (and sometimes, not even then.) The second reason is more at the heart of this discussion. With the release of the new mods from Tethra's Doom, we can now push the status chance beyond the 100% threshold, making the Status Build actually viable for a number of weapons. On certain weapons (such at the Tysis), it may even be game-breaking. A bonus of +120% Status Chance means a base 50% Status chance becomes 110% before multishot is even considered.
Even weapons with lower overall status chances (such as the Soma with 7.5%) can become somewhat terrifying given their rate of fire. That 7.5% Status Chance becomes 16.5%. Weapons with no spool up time and decent status chance (AKA Boltor Prime with its 10 Fire Rate and 10% Status Chance) become absolute terrors as they unleash status chances at 22% per bullet ammo consumed. Certain status ailments, like Viral and Corrosive, will decimate enemies as Viral is a fixed percentage of max health and Corrosive is a fixed percentage of armor per proc. Even something as overlooked and under appreciated as Blast results in incredibly high amounts of crowd control, while Gas turns single target focused weapons into AoE Death Machines.
To me, it feels like the Status build just became quite significant. Yes, it won't get you those pretty, pretty numbers that are outstandingly high, but you are gaining more viability and flexibility in exchange for that. In many instances, you're trading a meager amount of damage for a massive increase of status procs.
The only way to know is to experiment and to understand the math. That is where I turn to you, my fellow Tenno. What do you think about this?
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I wasn't really sure where to actually post this thread, since there is no clear section for the discussion of Mods. This topic doesn't really fit under "Warframes and Abilities" because it is far too general. It affects warframes and weapons equally. If a community moderator could place this in the most fitting section, I would greatly appreciate it.
I've been around since about Update 7 when the 'current' mod System went into effect. Back when I began, I understood the need for you to have a separate mod for each rank, but time does strange things to understanding. The justifications that were accepted back then start to lose merit over time as the game grows and improves. With the discussion slowly turning to the idea of "General Abilities" that can be used on any warframe, I think it is worth asking the question: Why don't mods have adjustable levels? One could argue that they do, and is indicated by the Rank you've achieved through fusion, but this is not what I'm talking about.
Increasing the level of a mod through Fusion makes perfect sense and I find it to be acceptable. What I don't understand is why I cannot willingly choose to make my Powerful 10 Rank mod a level other than Rank 10. In a way, the very effort of making these mods Maximum Rank becomes an extreme handicap when working with lower levels weapons and Frames. It means these low-rank things remain weaker longer than really necessary.
Yes, you can make the argument that "Leveling is easy! Just do a 15-30 minute Survival and there is X ranks right there!", but that's not the point. That's looking at it as a veteran. Think about it in the broad sense instead. Let me provide an example. You are leveling your Ember and it is currently Rank 10. You put a Catalyst in it so you can have 20 mods points. You use a maxed Rifle Amp aura to give you an extra 14 mods points, bringing you to a total of 34. You really like World on Fire (13) and want to maximize duration so it can continue to burn your enemies to a fine ash. You have a maximized Narrow Minded (16), Continuity (9), and Constitution (13). Putting World on Fire and Constitution on their respective polarities reduces the mod cost to 7 each, for a total of 14. Just these 4 mods together add up to be 39 Points, which is 5 more than you have. What do you do? You have to forgo a Mod. If we could adjust the rank of our mods, we could make this work. That means you achieve far greater potential at an earlier point than you could normally.
Please understand that I am not suggesting the fusion system be removed. This is something to compliment it. If you think of the Mods as a fabrication machine, you control how hard that machine works, within the limitations of the system. Only want to run the machine to make 20 parts an hour when it can do 100 parts an hour? You can do that. That's your choice. So, wouldn't it be nice if we had control over our mods in the same way?
Something else to consider. If such a thing were to happen, it would mean that you would never find yourself unable to fuse a mod because it would exceed the limits of Weapon/Frame X Build Y. This error would literally disappear because you have already told that particular build to use a specific rank. You'd be free to level mods as you choose without having to go back and remove it from every frame/weapon you are using it on just because it 'exceeds the limits'. Personally, I would greatly appreciate being able to do that because different frames and different builds call for more flexibility than the system currently provides. It punishes creativity because it requires greatly increased extra effort just to see if an idea is viable. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of having multiple copies of every single mod just because I want my frames to be able to have the option of utilizing all their mod slots without needing a huge investment of resources and additional copies of mods.
NOTE: I am not saying that a Sentinel and weapons should be able to use the -same- mod just because their different ranks. I totally get that the mod is "In Use" if the weapon/sentinel is actively USING it. This is not what I am talking about. I'm only talking about mod ranks.
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You will receive the rewards in the first hotfix following the event. That is how it has worked in the past. Just be patient.
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That's mildly disappointing. I suppose it was necessary to make the slam attack consistent with various weapons in terms of damage and range. It's kind of unfortunate that we currently have no means of boosting that slam attack, meaning it is only viable as a Knockdown tactic. It also makes it far less effective than Paralysis, which deals considerably more damage over a larger range and gives players access to the 4x Melee damage bonus.
I will be running some tests over the next few days and see how things end up for me. I'm almost positive they'll verify your findings. I think that a lot of the confusion regarding Hysteria comes from the fact that DE made the ability very complex. There are so many factors that go into Hysteria and many more that do not. Players will be made to decide between a weapon that maximizes their power in Hysteria and a weapon that can be utilized in actual combat. There is also the issue of how these abilities end up coming together in the final math.
Admittedly, I'd like to ask for your idea of how Hysteria's attacks will feel with the melee attack button likely going away in Melee 2.0. Do you have hope that the secondary fire (Or Aim or Charge Attack or Detonate, depending on what you're using) will become something to build onto hysteria? Or do you think it'll just use your regular attack?
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PsycloneM,
Forgive my misunderstanding where the second damage number was coming from. I had assumed that because it was at 200% of the critical damage, it was likely the influence of an outside ability without digging into it much further. I appreciate you stepping forward to correct me on the matter.
The 7.7x is a misnomer caused by frequently changing information on the wiki. I had a chance to review the Hysteria page this morning and found that it had been clarified. As such, the numbers I indicated in my last post are completely flawed. I've revised my equations to reflect this, and again apologize for my poor understanding of the math involved with this particular ability.
Assuming double damage: 300 + 1.75 x 70 x 2.29 x 3.8 = 1366 Damage per hit before resistance (7786 / 15572 damage per critical). Adding Paralysis increases the damage to 5465 damage per hit before resistance (31144 / 62289 damage per critical)
Assuming triple damage: 300 + 1.75 x 105 x 2.29 x 3.8 = 1899 damage per hit before resistance (10824 / 21648 damage per critical). Adding Paralysis increases the damage to 7596 damage per hit (43297 / 86594 damage per critical)
I think it is safe to say that we are in agreement that the possibility does exist for Melee 2.0 to make Hysteria an incredibly powerful skill, beyond where it stands now. As a few people have pointed out already, being limited to single target hits means that the skill required to reflect this potential is far higher than some people feel is workable. It does lead me to ask a question regarding the slam attack that Hysteria gains. Does the slam attack have its own independent damage or does it follow this damage formula as well? If it uses these same formulas, then the slam attack, even though only 5 meters in range, is actually very strong small AoE damage. Can you shed any insight to this, PsycloneM?
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I think I may be one of the few people who can honestly say that they love Paralysis and love how it actually fits with her current list of abilities. With the right build, it becomes lethal at lower levels and an ability that reduces upper level enemies to dust in combination with either an extremely powerful melee weapon or Hysteria. As an additional bonus, while under Hysteria, Valkyr takes no damage at all, meaning you can use Maximized damage Paralysis every few seconds. It is quite a powerful and useful skill, but it unfortunately doesn't really fit well with how a lot of people use her in the game.
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Cyrionn,
Not to sound provocative, but you say that I have no idea how Hysteria works then provide the math to justify my point. I appreciate the assist on that. I also noticed that you failed to see that I openly admitted that reaching upwards of 80k damage could be the result of Melee 2.0 if all they did was increase the raw damage of weapons to make them viable against high level enemies. Presently, no one knows what changes we are going to see with Melee weapons as a whole in Melee 2.0. Enemies might have their armor broken into two categories, one for ranged and one for melee. Who knows?
Just going with that final equation, let's assume a doubling and a tripling of the melee damage that exists on the Dual Ichor. We'll also assume critical damage modifier remains the same at 7.7
Double: 300 + 1.75 x 70 x 2.29 x 3.8 = 1366 total damage per hit before resistance (10518 / 21036 damage criticals)
Triple: 300 + 1.75 x 105 x 2.29 x 3.8 = 1899 total damage per hit before resistance (14622 / 29244 damage criticals)
Please note that both of these equations only factor two things: Valkyr's raw solo potential (First critical number) and Nova's Influence (Double damage, the 2nd critical number). This does not account for the 4x damage modifier from Paralysis, which I also see that the equations you posted also do not include. If you factor Paralysis in, before adding any damage it may contribute, Valkyr's damage becomes as follows.
Double: 1366 x 4 = 5464 Damage per hit before resistance (42072 / 84145 damage criticals)
Triple: 1899 x 4 = 7596 damage per hit before resistance (58489 / 116978 damage criticals)
Even assuming that Melee Damage doesn't change significantly, the equations you posted already confirm my point. With Paralysis included in the current build of Valkyr's Hysteria, her damage per hit is 3328 before any resistances are added (which makes her critical hits 25625, well above the 12000 damage threshold that I indicated in my original post. This is before any added influence, such as Nova's Molecular Prime, which boosts that to 51251 per hit)
What this shows is that the fear of just increased weapon damage actually does approach the numbers I suggested, even at just a doubling. All it requires is the influence of a Nova to accomplish. At a Tripling, it goes well beyond my predictions.
Thank you again for contributing the equations to the discussion.
[/url
Guys, I'm Losing It, Please Help
in Players helping Players
Posted
Semshol, I realize that my comment here may come across as insulting or counter-intuitive to the mentality that a lot of people have, but I think the issue that you are seeking advice on is one of personal illusion. I know I am in the extreme minority when it comes to equipment, but the stats and features you are looking for are wrong for several reasons. Please allow me a moment to explain my point of view.
1. Style of Play. Weapons are directly influenced by how you choose to play. Right now, the Rambo style is the most prevailing style. Players lean toward powerful, low-thought, low-focus weapons that they can exploit as they blitz through an area with little regard to strategy or approach. The most commonly used weapons are weapons that players can use while they ignore team dynamics and shun the purpose of playing as part of a cell. In fact, they are using this as a crutch as this method of play hides the fact that they don't know how to actually play the game. Very few of the most popular weapons are exempt from this fact. To this end, weapons that require extremely high skill to use effectively, like the Latron, are except from this truth. Their power is a direct reflection of skill and prowess as opposed to reckless gameplay. I applaud your self-discovery, but feel inclined to ask you a question about how you choose to play.
There are weapons that serve almost no purpose outside of support. They sport low damage and high utility, making them excellent choices for manipulating encounters to the whim of the user, but they need additional assistance of a team to reach their peak. You were kind enough to throw a nod to various weapons people generally ignore for one reason or another, but they do not tell me how you choose to play the game. How you play the game is just as important as seeking the most powerful weapon that you can get. Don't make the mistake of choosing a weapon for its raw power alone. Your desire to seek understanding tells me that you're better than that.
2. Functionality. As stated in the previous point, there are weapons that sport virtually no damage and incredibly high utility. These weapons are often ignored because people would rather have raw power for their Rambo style of play. As a personal choice, I like weapons that have high status chance because of their ability to manipulate battles. As a result, I lean toward weapons like the Amprex, Marelok, Drakgoon, Vectis, Grakata, Magnus, Akstilleto, Silva & Aegis, Dual Ichor, Jat Kittag, and Venka to name a few. A few of these have the ability to stand alone (Marelok, Drakgoon, Vectis, and Grakata) while others require a different set of tactics to use to their full power. You're making an attempt to compare the Boltor Prime to the Latron Prime, so I don't really know if you are looking at the functionality aspect of your weapons. The Boltor Prime is a prefered weapon by most players because it requires very little skill to use effectively. The Latron Prime requires a high level of skill to use effectively. Both weapons have their place in the the game, but have quite the opposite design of functionality. The Boltor Prime fares better in tighter ranks, while the Latron Prime does better at a longer range. Boltor Prime is considered a low risk-reward weapon while the Latron Prime is considered a high risk-reward weapon. Naturally, your skill level had direct influences on this, but this hold true for most of the player base.
As a rule of thumb, I ask myself how well a weapon fares in General Combat. This is roughly Mid to Mid-close range, where most people will tend to be in relation to their enemy. The Latron Prime requires a much faster response time to be used effectively at this range. It also requires a fair amount of control and precision to make it shine. There is also the downside that at this range, enemies are shooting you with heavy intensity, putting you in a much worse position overall. The Boltor Prime was designed for these sorts of situations. Thanks to its simple design and a non-reliance on landing headshots repeatedly, you can just "Spin to Win", if you can pardon the term's use here, to wipe out a lot of enemies at this range. Even accounting for the bullet travel time, you can predict when enemies will be vulnerable with almost no effort. You still are at the same damage risk, but you don't have to be precise, meaning you can bring down more enemies in a much smaller window of time than the Latron Prime can. This is why people believe the Boltor Prime to be the superior End Game weapon at the present time. If you can get away, say Mid to Mid-Long range, the Latron Prime vastly and handily tops the Boltor Prime. Assuming a skilled player, these weapons are roughly equal at Mid Range (though I will admit that I don't think most people can call themselves Skilled with a Latron. This is proven by the general lack-of-use the Latron and Latron Prime sees in the current game.)
3. Fun. This is something that varies person to person and isn't really set in stone. How fun is a weapon to use? This is not a question of the weapon's power. It is about whether or not you actually enjoy using the weapon. Some players pick weapons because they make them feel like a Divine Being, raining judgment on those deemed unworthy to live in their world. Other people choose weapons because they want to feel like a Super Hero (I'm talking to people who choose the Silva & Aegis and think they're Captain America or the people who use the Venka and think they're Wolverine). Why a weapon is fun to you is entirely your to decide and no one can judge you for it, but you should be playing with weapons not because they're powerful but because they are fun. If it can put a smile on your face, it is a weapon worth using.
I guess what I'm getting at is that you should put the calculators away and stop fussing over the details. Choose the weapons you enjoy for the reasons you like and that fit your style of play. It doesn't have to be the most powerful thing out there. It just needs to be something you won't look to replace because of a desire for power. Warframe is a Team Game. Don't choose weapons over your enjoyment of the game with friends.