Tonberryc
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Posts posted by Tonberryc
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9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:
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Since the other nodes were not registering as complete due to the above issue, in order to unlock Duviri on The Steel Path now, you may need to replay and complete The Circuit (complete at least one stage) and Lone Story (complete all stages, including defeating the Orowyrm) on their normal difficulty. A UI pop-up will occur to generally indicate if any of the normal nodes needs to be completed before The Steel Path can be unlocked for Duviri. An additional change that specifies exactly which node will be coming in the next update.
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This is unreasonable. You've rolled back several hours of completed gameplay on accounts that have already cleared the story and normal content. I have no desire to run through the entire lone wolf story and a full normal circuit despite having multiple weapons with incarnon adapters in my inventory and 241/241 on starchart completion.
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Considering how frequently we're having to abort missions due to bugs, it would be nice if you'd (at least temporarily) bring back partial mission rewards in Railjack. I'm up to well over 3 hours of completely lost time due to the current state of Railjack missions. Spending +20 mins completing optional objectives only to get nothing and leave is quickly reaching a "not going to bother anymore" level of frustration.
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12 hours ago, Snydrex said:
Yes, something like this, please. Also, the same should be done for Baruuk/Wukong, imo.
Valkyr's Talons got unique animations. I can only hope they give Exalted/DesertWind their own someday too.
Good point. I haven't tried Valkyr since the melee changes, but I'm sure the other exalted weapons need love, too.
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12 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:
I'd like a wide-angle wave like 120° cone of slash energy on heavy attacks and a stun-wave on ground heavy-attacks.
That would be a very nice addition. The current wave on slam attacks still has the impact damage from the old Exalted Blade stance, so it sends enemies flying away. A stun would be so much better.
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The standing Exalted Blade Heavy Attack has the following problems:
- No projectile
- Short melee range
- Slow animation
- Shockwave animation that does no damage
This makes the Heavy Attacks on the Exalted Blade no different from most other melee weapons in terms of Heavy Attack utilization, and downright confusing the first few times you use it. It would be nice to see standing Heavy Attacks do at least one of the following:
- Extend the range of the Heavy Attack damage to match the existing shockwave animation, and speed up the attack by at least 25%.
or
- Add some utility to the standing Heavy Attack such as a radial blind or a short ~15 sec buff to melee damage on Heavy Attack kill (just examples, probably lots of better ideas for this)
TL;DR Exalted Blade Heavy Attacks are not Exalted Blade attacks. Please make them Exalted Blade attacks instead of just a prettier version of every other melee weapon.
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Just to add to the list of recent hidden changes:
- Stealth affinity bonus multipliers for everything except melee finishers and sleeping enemies were silently removed in 25.8.1. No acknowledgement from DE despite multiple bug reports.
- Enemies spawned with paused AI in the Simulacrum are instantly put into the alerted status even with an invisible warframe spawning them. Most likely to further hide the changes to stealth gameplay.
- The range and speed at which enemies become alerted was massively increased around Update 25.7. Trying to complete a mission without alerting enemies is nearly impossible without an invisibility frame.
These changes are not only hidden, but also poorly implemented. There are numerous bugs related to enemies becoming alerted without line of sight, and the stealth affinity bonus being randomly triggered by non-stealth conditions. The two MR test (9 & 19) are also incredibly difficult because of the excessive alert range, and have been left in this state for over a month.
Edit: Simulacrum bug responsible for stealth multipliers being wrong. Not all missions seem to be affected.
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Bit of discouraging news on this topic. The bonus damage multiplier from stealth is also not working consistently as of update 26. Also, enemies spawned in the Simulacrum with paused AI are instantly put into the alerted status, most likely to further hide the nerfs to stealth gameplay.
I don't really see a situation where these changes aren't deliberate, and whoever is responsible for hiding these changes from the patch notes should be ashamed.
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The stance changes are the biggest problem for me. I can work around and theory-craft my way out of damage and range nerfs, but I can't do much with stances that require awkward and counter-intuitive directional movement.
Bullet Dance isn't great, but it's salvageable because you can mod for speed, then stand still and fire, pause, and repeat. However, once you try to follow through with a combo, you roll around on the ground missing everything in front of you, fall of ledges, and roll backwards through doors and around corners.
High Noon is just silly. You can be less than 10m from a target, both of you standing still, aiming directly at their center, and you still miss because of the goofy, anime-esque jumping animations. I was barely able to kill enemies in the Simulacrum with AI paused. Not even worth trying in an actual mission.
On 2019-11-02 at 5:42 PM, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:EDIT: Ok, I just tested it in the Simulacrum, & Corrosive seems to be way better now, I had gas before since it dealt a tone of damage, now for some reason Gas is complete garbage. Like I said, Corrosive is very good. Combos are still meh tho
I noticed my gas builds got a lot weaker, too. It seems like the DoT is still very strong, but the intial gas damage has been nerfed. Unless you're running a full armor strip like Ash with 100% SC on the Redeemer, gas is underwhelming. I'm also experimenting with Corrosive + heat builds to see if I can stack a little DoT damage and speed up armor stripping.
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Deleted post - accidentally posted to the wrong forum.
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This started with update 25.8.1. DE has yet to acknowledge it after over 3 weeks.
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2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:
Since channeling is no longer a thing, how do we destroy the bodies during melee for stealth now? This is something I just realized while reading a topic on MR 9 Test.
At the moment, we don't. I tested several weapons just now. No amount of combo counter causes Heavy Attacks to destroy bodies as of 26.0.2.
3 hours ago, 36ONoScope said:Wait, really? I still only got a multiplier from melee takedowns as was the case before the patch.
That's part of the problem. If this is somehow deliberate and not a bug, then it's still poorly implemented and has bugs of its own. You can sometimes still get the stealth multiplier by killing enemies extremely far away (usually over 100m when I see it) or against specific enemy types without sleeping or using a finisher. However, it's rare and behaves more like a bug than an intentional feature. That's one of the reasons we assumed it would be hotfixed when it appeared nearly a month ago.
I have to say this is really disappointing. This is either a bug that prevents the stealth multiplier from activating, or it's a design choice that has been poorly implemented and produced bugs of its own. Either way, it needs acknowledgement and patching. DE's complete silence on this doesn't make sense, and mainline patches shouldn't be used as an excuse given the number of players affected and how long it's been left in this state.
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On 2019-10-20 at 12:56 PM, FoxKeegan said:
Did this bug just start back up recently? I swear in the last two days I've been getting stealth shots at range, as I recall hearing the sound effect for breaking the combo chain.
The bug has exceptions. Enemies put to sleep, melee finishers, and enemies killed from very long range still give the affinity multiplier buff.
It's definitely bugged, but there are temporary workarounds for focus farming and leveling weapons. I just wish DE would at least acknowledge the bug as it's been nearly 3 weeks, and it isn't a minor bug considering it shuts down an entire style of gameplay for many frames.
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On 2019-10-20 at 6:20 AM, unknow99 said:
Are you me?!
That's the first reason I'm still around after all these years, but these changes are seriously making me question the disk space of my laptop...
Why make such a change? Stealth was superb for XP but now all my bows,my Ferrox & other silent ranged weapons seem nerfed. Add to this the fact that their vision is wayyy too good for non-open world tilesets, and it's the first time since the beginning that I just can't do any mission 100% undetected without an invisible warframe (so without cheesing it).
DE needs to take a look at this with Update 26! I'm not against challenging Stealth, but don't make it completely unviable!
I think I'm both of you. I'm a Loki main, play Ivara on the plains, and level weapons with Equinox. Most of my gameplay is just running solo missions to wind down after work. We are 2 weeks deep with this bug, and my gameplay is slowly turning into doing sorties and logging off. This issue combined with the increased enemy vision range and alert sensitivity has really killed my enjoyment of the game.
It also seems like people are misunderstanding the severity of these bugs (or changes?). A style of gameplay is effectively broken right now. An entire method of focus farming (one of the most tedious things in the game) is limited to a handful of warframes. Rivens and other challenges that require "without alerting enemies" are incredibly difficult without very specific frames and weapons. Certain MR tests are nearly impossible for new and casual players. And all of these things feel very clunky and unpolished because we don't know if any of this is a bug or deliberate changes.
Personally, I doubt these changes are deliberate as they aren't included in any patch notes, nor have they even been acknowledged by a dev, yet. I'm sure the upcoming mainline patch will distract me for a few days, but I foresee another long break from the game if stealth is left in this state much longer.
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I'm also experiencing this issue, and it seems to have spread to Adaro, Sedna and several other Exterminate missions. I typically use a sleep build on Equinox to level weapons, and this bug is making it almost impossible to maintain a stealth multiplier. Enemies spawn in the room or behind me in rooms I've already cleared, and instantly become alerted after I've already put everything in the room to sleep.
The bug started immediately after the Augment Tweaks Update 25.6.0, and it has made stealth gameplay pretty frustrating.
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The problem seems to be getting the extractor to deploy in the first place. The extractors appear to be extremely laggy when deploying to a planet. You can click deploy, select the extractor, and wait up to 2 minutes for the extractor to actually deploy. If you zoom away from the planet before the "RETRIEVE EXTRACTOR" button and the timer text appear, then the extractor will fail to deploy. Sometimes you have to re-deploy the extractor 3 or 4 times on each planet regardless of the network connectivity in the rest of the game. Once the extractor is actually deployed and the timer becomes visible, then they work normally.
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Confirming. I was also able to duplicate this issue in today's sortie as well as a hive mission that I ran yesterday. The spherical clouds do damage and proc status effects, but they never visually render on any tile.
Map: Naeglar, Eris
Mission: Hive, Hive Sortie, Hive (Kuva Siphon)
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Also having the same issue on all Lua maps. The animation (flashing blue, followed by Lotus dialogue) completes, but the Oculysts do not spawn.
- Can consistently reproduce on Plato, Lua.
- On 3 of my attempts, one or more of the Oculysts spawned, but were clipping through a wall. Attacking the visiable portions of the Oculyst spawned the Sentient fighters.
- When Oculysts do spawn, they are frequently inside of walls or near the ceiling of the room.
- If the Sentient fighters are able to be spawned, then they behave normally. The Sentient fighters do not appear to be affected by this bug.
- Standing still does not improve the spawn rates.
- Quickly running into the next 2-3 tilesets does not improve spawn rates.
- Sprinting into a large, high-ceiling, open room before the Oculysts spawn does seem to improve spawn rates.
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I'm seeing the same thing across most of the screens updated in UI 3.0.
My resolution is 1920x1080, and my scaling is still at 100%.
Strangely, changing the interface background and theme to Legacy seems to have fixed a few of the blurry text fields, but not all of them.
It almost looks like some sort of glow effect was added to the text, but it's so small that it just appears blurry.
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21 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:
Here, use this bb and then you'll stop saying she has energy problems:
I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of feedback threads. Recommending a specific build is a band-aide for a design issue with the warframe, not a fix, and telling players to compensate with their loadout is a great example of how her build diversity is mostly gone due to the very energy issues you're claiming don't exist. As I said in the post you quoted, nothing about showing that she's a strong frame with a working build invalidates any of the complaints about her design. No matter how much energy management, damage output, or survivability you have, none of it matters to a large portion of the player base if she still feels clunky, overly-micromanaged, lacks build diversity, and has lost her class fantasy.
Please don't go through a feedback thread and try to invalidate every post that even remotely suggests her current version isn't perfect. That is just as damaging to the forums as the people claiming that "she's broken" or "unplayable." She is neither perfect nor broken, which is the entire reason this thread exists.
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I don't know how many more rounds of testing I have left in me, but round 4. Ready. Fight!
Quote- Targets you cast Spores on directly will always spread on death.
Very positive change. This takes away a big part of the "punished for playing well" aspect of the last update. It doesn't completely fix the problem, since the targets hit by that initial spread still die quickly and there isn't much of a window to chase spores the better you manage them, but at least we aren't waiting for our damage to drop to be able to use our spores again.
Bugs related to this change:
- Spores spread by spore death on initial target sometimes trigger the spore damage decay sound, which is not only a false trigger but may be causing the second bug in this list.
- Spores spread by spore death on initial target don't always spread with bonus spore damage. Many times the spores ticking on secondary targets are at base damage instead of the values ticking on other infected targets and the damage value shown in the indicator.
Quote- Targets affected by Miasma will always spread on death
Miasma
- Increased sickness Duration by 1 second.
- Lowered Energy cost to 75.
- Decreased damage tick to 300.
These changes seem like a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure they are behaving as intended or just need some clarification. Enemies hit with spores while Miasma is active will always spread spores regardless of whether Miasma is active when the enemy dies. The increased duration does help by increasing the window for application, but it reads like Miasma needs to be active when the enemies die. Also, the spores spread by spore kill after hitting enemies with Miasma are not always buffed by the spore damage stacks. Most of the time my spores are spreading at a significantly reduced damage (close to their base damage), and you can easily test this by seeing enemies next to each other with completely different spore damage ticks despite all being the same enemy type, same level, and infected at approximately the same bonus damage value. She's still doing lots of damage, but this doesn't feel like an intentional design due to the buggy nature of the audio queues and inconsistency.
Possible bugs related to this change:
- Spores spread on spore death after hitting enemies with Miasma are ignoring the spore damage stacks and applying at just above base damage.
- Enemies dying to spores after being hit by Miasma still set off the audio trigger for spores going into decay state regardless of how many spores are spread on death. This may also be the cause of the loss of damage on spread.
While I like the direction of this change, motivating players to use Miasma and reducing its cost still doesn't fully compensate for the extra energy cost of so many Spores and Molt casts on top of maintaining the Toxic Lash buff. I see lots of players claiming they "don't have a problem with it because look at my damage and kills", but that logic doesn't address the fact that she is a caster warframe with a heavy dependency on being able to manage energy after these changes. So any complaints about her energy management deserve more attention than "some people can make it work in the right conditions with the right loadouts". The results of a rework should not severely limit build options like this, and accusing other players of not building or playing her correctly only supports my point.
Overall, these changes feel like a step in the right direction, but the result is still a strong damage warframe that feels clunky to play and is missing the class fantasy of a "spreader of plague and death". No amount of "look at my scoreboard" screenshots prove otherwise since most players aren't even worried about her damage output compared to the rest of her issues. Unfortunately, her role as a warframe has been completely changed just to remove a specific play style, and I'm not sure that's a great design philosophy when it knowingly sacrifices her class fantasy and fluid gameplay.
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After a few more days of testing, here are some follow-up observations:
Positives:
- The damage decay when measured relatively against other caster-type warframes is not as bad as I originally thought. While I'd like to see a bit more tuning to prevent the almost instantaneous 36% loss on dropped spores, Saryn's damage is overall still in a good place when measured objectively instead of against her previous versions.
- Flat base spore spread range is just an overall improvement. No more guessing if enemies are going to get the spores based on range, and this helped (didn't fix, but helped) address the issue of inconsistent spore spread.
- Toxic Lash synergy with spore spread is great. It has indirectly caused other issues, but those issues are caused by other aspects of the frame and not this ability or its synergy with spores.
- Recasting spores instead of detonating is just plain better design mechanically and in terms of class fantasy. It feels good and works well to just re-apply the spores on cast.
Negatives:
- Energy efficiency is a mess. There are way too many ways for spores to drop, many of which are completely out of the player's control. The 50% cost reduction on recast helps, but it wasn't enough considering spores are being cast 4-5 times as often and frequently at the full cost due to no active spores. This constantly recasting along with maintaining Toxic Lash and much more frequent use of Molt leaves very little room or energy for Miasma. It also makes spores the sole focus of the warframe again, which doesn't seem to match the intent of the full class rework preceding it.
- The none-prime version of Saryn has suffered tremendously in this change. Her lower armor and lower base energy went from being a minor disadvantage to a massive weakness due to Saryn having to expose herself to more damage and being instantly energy starved after initially casting Toxic Lash and Spores on the first target without a (primed) Flow mod and high efficiency.
- The defensive weaknesses of Saryn have been made very apparent by the newly required play style. Regenerative Molt feels like a mandatory augment, and Molt has to be cast much more often due to Saryn needing to expose herself to enemies for a majority of the mission.
- Infinite duration spores with scaling damage over time will never be balanced. The decay helps keep it in check, but the fundamental nature of the design means it will always be overpowered or trapped in a balancing act where it's only effective within a certain damage range due to not spreading on spore death. I can't see this ever working without going back to a duration on spore damage. It also means that the "cast once, then afk" play style was not fully removed from the frame, which feels like we gave up a fun design only to fail at the reason for doing so.
- Spores spreading on spore death is just too important for fun and class fantasy. No amount of active play styles, ability synergy, or other compensating mechanics will change this. I've tried changing builds, changing weapons, and changing play styles to match everyone's suggestions. The simple fact of the matter is all of them are just trying to make the class as close as possible to automatically spreading spores on spore death, which defeats the purpose of the active play style rework. There should have been several options between a "1 button kills the map" build and what we have now. Deciding to go with such an extreme change given the range of options in between seems overly aggressive and unnecessary.
Suggestions:
- Changing spore death from "on last hit" to requiring that the enemy "die solely from spore damage" would drastically improve the inconsistent spore spread and actually reward the "active play style" this rework wants to create. Emptying an entire clip into an enemy and actively doing 80% of the damage only to be negated by a last-hit, MOBA-style spore kill steal is frustrating to say the least. Suggesting alternative weapons with AoE and punch-through to pop spores more easily is a band-aid, not a solution, and Toxic Lash is great until you run into Nullifiers, energy drain, or any other situation where it can't be easily recast.
- A small delay between spore application and the first damage tick feels necessary at this point. If I actively refresh my spores by recasting and running around the map, enemy spawns line up just right, and I do everything the mechanics of the warframe indicate I should be doing, then I'm punished by enemies dying so fast that I'm not even using an AoE ability anymore. And, no, "all the enemies dying" is not a good thing because there's no version of this scenario where enemies outside your initial cast target are all dead and gone, and it makes the warframe geometrically less efficient the better you play.
- Limited spore duration needs to come back. Keep the damage decay, improve the scaling per target, and let us manage the spore damage by popping spores and recasting instead of rushing around the map chasing DoTs.
- Give Molt the healing from Regenerative Molt, and rework the Regenerative Molt augment to popping nearby spores when running near/through enemies during the speed buff or stunning nearby enemies when casting Molt.
- Better armor and base energy for the non-prime version. Better health and/or shields for both versions. If you want a warframe to be active, then that means they have to be in the thick of things. Requiring support frames and a (nearly) mandatory defensive augment does not feel like a good solution to pushing a squishy warframe into the middle of the fray.
- The 20% damage loss when recasting spores on infected targets needs to be removed. The entire point of limited energy pools and regen is to prevent spamming abilities. Those features already do their job quite well and do not require help.
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After testing Saryn in several mission types today, I'm sad to say that despite all of the exciting changes, Saryn is much worse off than before today's patch.
Enemies that die to spores no longer spreading spores is countering every other positive change that was made.
- The 50% cost reduction when recasting spores is overwhelmed by having to recast 4-5 times as often due to significantly less efficient spores spread. We also frequently are stuck with the full cost due to not being able to maintain active spores as easily.
- Shooting a target that's already infected typically results in no spread since the spores only have to land the killing tick to negate everything else done to that enemy.
- If I play the frame well and maintain my stacks without running out of energy, then enemies die too quickly from the spores to spread them.
- Saryn now requires micro-managing:
- spore damage stacks
- number of enemies infected by spores
- locations of enemies infected by spores
- maintaining line-of-sight to at least one enemy infected by spores
- energy cost of frequently recasting spores
- not letting damage stacks get too high in lower level missions to avoid 1-shotting freshly infected enemies resulting in no spread whatsoever
The depressing part is that Saryn is still a strong warframe in specific conditions (mainly high enemy density missions and maps), but it doesn't matter because she just isn't fun to play.
I recommend these alternatives:
- Allow spores to spread on death by spore OR any non-spore damage done to an enemy still spreads spores on death (not just the final damage tick)
- Better duration scaling to reduce the damage drop off
- Allow spores to persist on corpses that didn't auto-spread spores to avoid insta-death clunky gameplay at high damage stacks
- Better tracking of infected targets (a small aura or glowing cloud visible through walls)
The following feels a bit unreasonable to me, but I'll throw it in anyway in case I'm overestimating the time requirements to make the change:
- Casting spores while the spore damage counter is above zero causes a "spore bloom" that instantly spreads from a single target.
This change would simultaneously remove the insta-death issue at high damage stacks while not requiring spores to spread on spore death. Even if no target is infected, then the "bloom" would still go off since it is based on the spore damage counter which is active until the damage goes to zero.
The Seven Crimes of Kullervo: Hotfix 33.5.6
in PC Update Notes
Posted · Edited by Tonberryc
This is not true. I've already run one round of normal circuit, and SP is still locked.
It still fails to address the very clear and reasonable statement that (even if what you said were true, which it isn't for many players) we don't want to spend the time to re-unlock content that has multiple ways of being shown as previously cleared. This is a whole new level of disrespect for your players' time and investment in your game.