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0xCAFE

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  1. Primed Reach is not increasing range by the advertised amount. If it is for some weapons, it is not for other weapons. I ran some tests and found an estimate of the range of Tipedo and Orthos Prime with and without Primed Reach (PR). This is for the range of the first swing in the combo with the melee weapon holstered.

     

    Without PR

    Tipedo: 4.35

    Orthos P: 4.78

     

    With PR

    Tipedo: 6.29

    Orthos P: 9.56

     

    The ranges were found using way points. I'll explain the decimals below. In both cases, the range is not being increased by 165%. I did consider that there's an offset for way points. If that's the case, a 165% increase for Orthos with the data would mean an offset of 1.9 meters ( [9.56 - 1.9]/[4.78-1.9]~=2.65 or a 165% increase). If that same offset is applied to Tipedo, the range increase is a mere 80% ( [6.29 - 1.9]/[4.35-1.9]~=1.8). Whether or not there is a way point offset, the bonus reach is not being applied to both weapons correctly.

     

    Assuming that there is no offset, the theoretical range of each weapon with PR should be

    Tipedo: 11.53 m

    Orthos P: 12.67 m

     

    Testing Method

    Measurements

    Before testing, I needed a way to estimate centimeters in the game. I created a macro that holds down the forward or backward button for 50 ms so I can make small, consistent adjustments to my position. From here, I'll refer to each press of the macro as a tap forward or a tap backward. Facing a wall and creating a way point (WP), I placed myself so the WP would read 10 meters and a single tap forward would make the WP read 9. I'll refer to this type of position as low 10 meters. From that position, I continuously made forward taps until I reached low 7 meters. Doing this, I moved 3 in game meters with 55 taps. Each tap corresponds to roughly 5 cm (3/55 =~ 0.05454...).

     

    Testing Attack Range

    All attacks made were with the first hit in the combo with the melee weapon holstered. Targets were on even ground and stationary. This was achieved by using invisibility Loki and alerting the Grineer so they would remain still in cover. For each weapon, I tried various low n meters until I found a range where I could no longer hit the target. In the case of Tipedo w/o PR, I placed a WP on my target and positioned myself at low 5 meters. At low 5 meters, I could not hit the target. At low 5 meters + 12 taps forward, I could consistently land hits on my target. And at low 5 meters + 13 taps forward, I found myself hitting air. From that I'm able to derive 4.35 meters (5 - 3/55 * 12 =~ 4.35).

     

     

  2. This is an observation I made not too recently. Refer to the conflict history below:

     

    http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d1e106c56f853e7b23e8_1416614905

    http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d1e106c56f853e7b23e8_1415429305

    http://deathsnacks.com/wf/bl_history.html#5348d13606c56ff360394139_1416698875

     

    Notice that when no one is looking, one of the big clans will put up 1 million credits in battle pay for a very limited number of rounds? My theory is that the intent behind this is to withdraw credits sitting in the vault. This is possible because there's no real competition for the rails and the community is overall disinterested in contesting them. The lack of competition allows credits to build up in the vault to very high amounts. The community disinterest allows them to put up massive battle pay for a few rounds without notice of most players.

     

    My conclusion is that when no one cares about DS conflicts, there's an incentive to own the nodes. When people do care, there's no incentive aside from advertising your clan.

  3. Greedy Pull works as the host but is useless as a client.

     

    The effective range for loot is shorter than the effective range for enemies (maybe +power range mods and helmet aren't affecting it?).

  4. - We've already got Finisher-focused weapons. Fists and Sparring weapons completely obliterate enemies with multi-hit finishers, and, to my understanding, heavy weapons like hammers now have 24x Finisher multipliers (basically meaning that nothing has even the slightest chance of survival).

     

    - Treating the S&A as a Status weapon is interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that you might as well wield a butterknife or a pair of boxing gloves to deflect bullets one by one for all the effect that its blocking has. People who buy it for platinum are expecting a sword and a shield-- and, at the moment, all they're getting is basically a mediocre sword.

    Yes, heavy weapons have a higher multiplier (not 24x but 6x) and fist weapons have multi-hit ground finishers. But does the higher damage make them ground finisher focused or is that merely a feature of the weapon classes? Besides the extra damage, what other incentive is there to focus on performing ground finishers? Do they have first hit attacks in their combos that knock enemies down? What I'm suggesting will give the S&A over a 50% (properly modded of course) chance per hit to knock enemies down and higher ground finisher damage. This gives two reasons to focus the weapon on ground finishers: easier to knock down targets and high ground finisher damage.

     

    To your second bullet, I understand that it's a shield and sword. As I've already stated, I'm not focusing on that; I'm focusing on game mechanics.

     

    The reason everybody focuses on the shield is because right now you're carrying the shield around as dead weight. It's there purely to look pretty and serves no actual purpose, but it's worse than a cosmetic item because one would actually expect to get some kind of defense from a shield. They might as well have just released the Silva and left the Aegis off because of the whole nothing that the shield does.

     

    Come to think of it, maybe they should just make a stand alone Silva. They already split up a weapon once (Nami Skyla -> Nami Solo).

    Again, I get that people focus on the shield. Regardless of the validity of your stated reasons, I'm offering a different approach that focuses on game mechanics rather than concepts.

  5. Most of the threads I've seen about buffing this weapon focus on its theme or its shield. My idea will focus on the mechanics of the game and the weapon's unique property. As of now, Silva & Aegis is the only melee weapon with pure fire damage. Combined with its good status chance (20%), it is the melee weapon with the highest chance to proc blast. Other melee weapons have a higher status chance, but due to proc distribution, Silva & Aegis has the highest chance to proc blast specifically (more on that later). Blast knocks enemies on their asses which exposes them to finishers. So my suggestion is to make the weapon focus on finishers by doing 2 things:

     

    1. Increase its base status chance to 25% for an even higher chance to proc blast

    2. Increase its finisher base damage to some obscene amount

     

    This will give the weapon a different focus on doing high damage that will not overlap with other weapons. As far as I know, there isn't a melee weapon that focuses on finishers in the game which will give this weapon a unique position.

     

    --

    To elaborate on its chance to proc blast, it's important to understand the way procs are distributed when a weapon deals physical and elemental damage. If a weapon has a 100% status chance and does physical damage and some elemental damage, 60% of the procs will be physical and 40% will be elemental. In the case of multiple elemental damage types, the procs will be distributed in proportion of the elemental damage dealt. E.g. let's say a weapon has 100% status chance. It does 30 corrosive damage and 70 fire damage. 30% of the time, it will proc corrosive and 70% of the time, it will proc fire. There are other weapons with higher status chance than Silva & Aegis but none of them are pure fire or pure ice which disallows them from having a higher chance to proc blast.

  6. 4/5 Streamline (25% power efficiency) + 4/5 Fleeting Expertise (50% power efficiency) makes Molecular Prime cost 80 energy (it should cost 25).

    Max Streamline (30% power efficiency) + Max Fleeting Expertise (60% power efficiency) makes MP cost 65 energy (should still be 25 due to cap).

     

    Max Fleeting Expertise alone behaves correctly.

    Essence Loki Helmet + Max Fleeting Expertise makes Radial Disarm cost 25 energy (this is correct).

     

    The testing method for this was flawed. I withdraw this report.

  7. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/118754-a-web-based-dps-tool/?p=1856265

     

    @OP you can have more than one occurrence on a single shot, just a bit rare. Can look at this video if you want to see them,

     

    So far it seems that proc distribution is that physical IPS has 2/3 of the status chance while elements has 1/3 of the status chance and within those physical and elemental damage, the proc distribution is affect by the percentage of various damage type.

    How did you get 2/3 for IPS and 1/3 for elemental? How does it behave for pure elemental weapons such as the Lanka?

  8. Procs are not mutually exclusive. You can potentially proc every single damage type on a given weapon in a single shot. The chance of that is very low, but it is possible.

    Here here's the first video I mentioned earlier in this thread:

    And here's the second:

    If I'm in error: please point it out based on these videos. Again: my objective is to be as accurate as possible.

    If you have split chamber on, and you do in the first video, isn't it possible you're seeing a double damage type proc due to a multi-shot? Nevermind, I can confirm that double and triple procs happen. The only thing that I'm questioning now is if one damage type procs, does it lower the chance of other procs? In my tests, I only saw 1 triple proc in a sample of over a hundred shots. Given that I have 40% status chance, I'd expect about 1 triple proc in 15-16 shots (1/.4^3 = 15.625).

     

    I'm also in doubt that Viral procs stack in such a way that it halves HP indefinitely; I believe it just resets the duration of the max HP reduction. Earlier, I ran tests on Lech Kril using a 40% Grakata. I didn't document my results but I'll describe my test procedure and results.

     

    During Lech's invulnerable phase, I'll shoot a burst at him until Viral procs. When it procs, it cuts his max and current HP in half. When viral wears off, his max HP goes back to normal and his current stays the same. Since he's invulnerable to normal damage but not Viral procs, I can see clearly that his HP is cut in half.

     

    Now I repeat the above in a new game so he's back to full HP. However this time I empty my entire ammo pool into Lech without letting the Viral proc wear off. At 500+ rounds, with 40% chance to proc, it's reasonable to assume that I got at least two Viral procs. After letting Viral wear off, he's still at exactly half HP.

     

    From this, I concluded Viral proc stacking to be of the reset duration nature. In order to cut HP in 1/2, 1/4, 1/8... etc, you need to proc viral, let it wear off, and repeat.

     

    Now I'd like to ask how you came to conclusion that Viral will cut HP in half indefinitely rather than resetting the duration.

  9. Faster ticks = More dps. Yes I'm aware that it is % based damage and I'm not complaining about it. What I am trying to get across is that there are currently two styles of building trinity.

     

    Energy spec: Less duration more strength and range

         Downsides: Blessing is used as a heal and only lasts 3 seconds

         Positives: Kill anything extremely fast and give unlimited energy to the party

    Blessing spec: Duration with range if you are opting in Link

         Downsides: Energy vamp ticks extremely slow

         Positives: You can make everyone immune for 30 seconds

     

    Both builds are currently in use which is a good thing. If it was changed so that duration would buff EV it would make trinity even more godmode status with both high dps and make your party immune for 30 seconds.

     

    I think Trinity is in a great spot right now even if one of her abilities suffer more noticeably from +/- duration.

    And my point is that a mod such as Continuity or Constitution which has no downside should not make Energy Vampire less effective. Having multiple builds should be based around choosing whether to stack Power Strength, Range, or Duration. If that is DE's goal, to make multiple builds viable, then they should change the kit so Strength, Range, and Duration stacking are viable.

  10. I hope you're kidding on the first item you quoted me on. Trinity does more damage than any gun on a high level enemy. My trinity was doing over 10 million damage ticks on a level 2000 enemy.

     

    On the second quote it would be more like longer range cc on rhino stomp or more damage absorbed with iron skin (stretch + overextended vs power strength). It is just more noticeable on trinity.

    Stretch + Overextended gives +135% power range and -60% power strength. Of course, that should improve some abilities while diminishing others. It gives a positive modifier and a negative modifier. But let's say only stretch was there, that means a +45% power range modifier. That should not make one ability better and make another ability worse. That is the case here with +power duration. By having just Continuity (+30%), it improves Blessing and Link while making EV worse. There's no negative ability modifier there. Hence my analogy of putting Focus on Rhino. That shouldn't make his stomp do more damage while making his iron skin weaker.

     

    Edit: OK, I found out that EV does percentage based damage. So it's doing high damage due to high scaling of enemies. This only happens at extreme high levels. The cause of your complaint of extreme damage is percentage based damage, not the period over which that damage is dealt. Because even with a 20 second energy vampire, at some point, enemy HP will reach such absurd levels that even percentage based damage over 20 seconds will become the king of damage. If DE wants to reign in extreme damage at high levels, the solution is to make percentage based damage fixed damage, not increase the period it's dealt over.

  11. Make my own charts of 1000 damage of selected different types against Grineers with Ferrite and Alloy armor

     

    dGi9YZo.png

    Against Heavy Gunner with Ferrite armor. I consider Viral procs effectively as X2 multiplier as only half of the time is needed to kill a 50% health enemy. Note, the multiplier applies to total, including all damage types that you are dealing now whereas the bonus from other types only applies to itself. Just ignore the viral procs line, if you think this comparison is not valid.

     

     

    iNPooUI.png

    Against Napalm with Alloy armor.

     

    Edit: Miss some values with Viral + Proc, now changed and updated.

    Can you explain the mechanics behind the Viral proc? What does it do? How does it work? How does it stack with itself?

  12. The problem with both of the common suggestions is that they make the energy spent vs. energy gained vs. duration of other abilities ratio even more broken. Even with the current mechanics I can keep Link and Blessing up constantly as long as I'm popping EV whenever possible on heavy targets; this is without Fleeting Expertise.

    You can't sustain Link and Blessing on EV alone. Without Fleeting Expertise and with Streamline, Link and Blessing cost 122.5 energy. EV costs 35 energy and restores 100 over the duration. You're getting a net gain of 65 energy. They all have the same duration so if you're popping all 3 all the time, you're losing 57.5 energy over the duration assuming you babysit the EV target for the full duration. I suspect the reason why you can maintain all 3 abilities constantly is because of the abundance of energy orbs which is a different matter entirely. The topic at hand is how a positive ability modifier makes some of Trinity's abilities worse and it makes her other abilities better.

     

    If max duration made trinity great at blessing and energy vampire, she would top the dps charts and make everyone immune at the same time.

    How would she top the dps charts? The damage done by EV is insignificant when compared to a well modded gun, especially on high leveled heavies.

     

    Trinity is done well right now since there is a choice between energy or being defensive.

    And it shouldn't be a choice because it's a positive ability modifier. It would be like saying a positive power strength modifier increased the damage done by Rhino's Stomp but decreased the damage absorbed by his Iron Skin.

  13. So here's how a max Energy Vampire currently works: Trinity slaps it on some guy and it restores 100 energy over 9 seconds to Trinity and nearby friends.

     

    With max Continuity, those 9 seconds becomes 11.7 seconds: 9*(1+.3) = 11.7

     

    Now Trinity and co need to sit near the debuffed enemy for 11.7 seconds for the full effect of Energy Vampire.

     

    My suggestion is to invert the relationship (similar to how Oberon's Renewal is inversely related to power duration modifiers). So max Continuity would reduce Energy Vampire's duration to ~6.9 seconds:

     

    9/(1+.3) ~= 6.923

     

    This would make it so Trinity and co only need to hang around the Energy Vampired guy for ~6.9 seconds.

  14. I sent a message to Grineeer, so we'll wait to see what he has to say.

     

    I think that realizing that Strun Wraith auto-reloads is a bug should tell you that reloading at 75% before reloading is finished is a bug. I don't know why it should be, and the only thing I can figure other than that is that the reload meter is just boggled.

    I disagree. As Flaming_Snake pointed out, reload canceling is a concept that pre-exists Warframe. I think DE implemented this intentionally. Fact is, reload cancelling works with most weapons and it hasn't be "addressed" for several patches. Have you heard back from Grineeer?

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