TisForTat
-
Posts
150 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by TisForTat
-
-
not the kind of answer I'm waiting for
I assume you wanted a specific answer then? Alrighty. I'll first start with what has been done already then what could be done.
1) Mobile Defense, Interception, etc.
2) Foundry
3) Mod 2.0
4) Clans and Dojo
5) Orokin Void and Orokin Derelict
6) Damage 2.0
7) Melee 2.0
8) Alliances and Dark Sectors
What could be changed or added now? Stealth 2.0, Balance 2.0, and Quests 2.0. After that? More content and aesthetics.
If the person doesn't perceive that pain then what? Are they lying when they state they don't perceive it like you do? That's the problem is that people are percieving whatever they want to this subject. In my example, Slick Willy wasnt lying, at least not to him because of the Flowers ruling on what was and wasnt sex. When DE is selling the product as not a beta then to them its not a beta. Thats my point. It looks like a duck, it waddles like a duck but this time, it isnt a duck. They are using the PC portion as a bugtesting machine. It relieves them of having to do test servers, reduces budget for not having to hire more personnel, it satisfies the want moar now folks and it gets rid of the bugs in time for the PS4 release. It is what it is. They havent changed it, and getting mad at it is kinda like the toad and the scorpion fable. Dont get mad when something acts in its nature, thats why it is its nature.
You put your reply in my quote. You should edit that.
Anyways, humans are as different to each other as the crystal structures of snowflakes, but that that doesn't change one fact. That fact is that snowflakes are still snowflakes and humans are still humans. Every human will perceive pain like the next because it is human nature, instinct, a sensation necessary to detect danger. If humans did not, we would be dying left and right to extinction a long time ago because we would be doing actions we would otherwise know better not to do. As Lotus likes to say: "Stay away from the fire, Tenno". If we are going to use counterexamples, sure some humans may not, but that is because they possess Neuropathy or other health disorders. They are still human, but impaired. Also if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is not a cow.
Warframe is not a beta, but this is not because person X says so. It is a matter determined solely by whether the product has been delivered to the general market for profit. DE has already accomplished joining with 2 of the 3 major audiences to video games and will soon have all 3.
Fair enough.
I have seen every major update to date.
People acted like the world would end. They made dozens of threads. And a few days later, the world still rotated and later, those people even came to the conclusion that the changes that have been made, actually werent that bad (who could actually think about that? I mean. Changes are not only made to hurt people? Wow. This cant be right? They have also been made to create a better game)
Sorry but all these complain threads that pop up after every update are funny to read and all, but nothing more.
Many "complaint" threads were feedback and that resulted in hotfixes within "a few days". Changes have two sides to them. One good. One bad. The good usually outweighted the bad until U14. People usually point out bugs, rather than actual changes. The exceptions are:
Mod 2.0, Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0, and Update 14.
Mod 2.0 was disliked by veteran players who already had the best loadouts in Mod 1.0 and didn't want to "start over".
Damage 2.0 was disliked by veteran players who already had favorite weapons/Warframes (Acrid, Saryn, etc.) and it was also disliked by most general players because bonuses and penalties were irrational at one point and combos were guesswork. They made changes and it became common knowledge through DE posts of what does what.
Melee 2.0 was disliked by "Galatine or nothing" players that had their favorite overpowered melee weapon nerfed into the mid tier category.
Update 14 is disliked for the lack of engagement beyond shallow face value, clunky new UI, higher CPU usage, and bugs for everyone and their mother.
-
So been playing since February, and it seems to me that Flow is utterly worthless without a supplementary mod. Equilibrium seems to fill it up well, but only if you can manage to have an abundance of Health Orbs...so basically Nekros or Oberon. Rage will fill it up pretty quickly, but using that method nearly requires a safety net (Quick Thinking), and is only good for people that can self-heal, which include Nekros, Oberon, Valkyr and Trinity.
With the exception of leveling up my Warframe, or having Quad Energy Siphons, I never manage to get enough Energy drops to fill my Flowed Energy pool.
I guess my question is, unless you are leveling with Affinity boosters, where you get a full Energy pool every other mission, is it really worth equipping on, say...Excalibur? He cant self heal, so Rage and Equilibrium are out of the question, unless I'm banking on all four people to show up with ES equipped.
What do you think? Is it really worth equipping? Why?
Flow is better than nothing, but Flow by itself is bad. Without utilizing quick thinking or equilibrium, there is no point, because Flow alone only matters when both of these conditions are satisfied:
1) You use energy occasionally and go beyond your normal limit.
2) But don't use energy constantly and allow energy to stockpile beyond your normal limit.
That means if you have to use your abilities in bursts to actually take advantage of Flow.
-
When what do you think is for warframe something that would be a fundamental change that differ from big updates of other mmorpg?
A core game mechanic change or to add one. Tutorial 2.0, UI 2.0, and Neopets are just aesthetic fillers which were also heavily bugged. Sure, the tutorial is more interesting than before, the ships are cool and add lore, and the Kubrows are cute, but none of those actually add gameplay. They're just eye candy which are sour in middle because they were "infested" with bugs.
You act like this would have been the first time. The whine is real son. It was real in EVERY FUC*ING MAJOR UPDATE.
And it will never end. Because to some people. Nothing can ever be the way they want it to be. Thats the problem with the community having a word to say about a game. It will never change. As simple as that.
You know what is worse than people that "whine" about every major update? People that whine about those people whining.
I take the opinion of people that refer to others as "son", rage in caps, hypocritically compain about other people complaining, and blame the community for a game's problems with a grain of salt.
Its not semantics if the company is not stating that its beta. "I never had sex with that woman." Remember Bill Clinton and Lewinski? He didnt lie when saying that because the legal terminology he was given in the case with Jennifer Flowers stated that in the parameters given he didnt. If you think they are purposely lying then I wont gainsay that. I dont believe its traditionally a beta game anymore, I do believe they are using the PC venue as a playtesting sandbox to enable them to put out the game with a shoestring budget and provide a more finished product to the consoles. Because of these beliefs and if they are thinking parallel to that, then they arent lying to anyone but those that put the label on for them.
Regarding that line of reasoning for Bill Clinton, my rebuttal is this: "You can sugarcoat it as much as you like, but if the core is rotten then it will be rotten." For example I could claim walking barefoot on legos/broken glass/nails actually feels good, but that doesn't retract from the sensation when a person actually does and feels inhumane pain.
Your latter statement is plausible though, but for the purposes of my own points, I disagree. Dedicated QA testers with a brief delay to at least look at then remove game breaking bugs is my desire. Being the "open beta" testers for broken content is not. It drives away new players, who 9 out of 10 times in my experience don't come back. "Tutorial 2.0" or not. It also disappoints the veteran players.
The update would have even been fine as just an aesthetic update if they didn't rush to release it. It was rushed similarly to trying to eat half cooked frozen food.
-
Beta or not, Warframe is a continually evolving product that depends on it's userbase to fuel and inform it's development. Whether those users feel more like customers who are entitled to returns on their investment, or like participants who are engaged in a progressively expanding work of art and entertainment, will vary from person to person. Having purchased multiple founder and prime access packages I feel myself more of a patron of a development studio's project, rather than someone who has purchased a ticket at an amusement park.
As such, I am comfortable with the studio's development cycle. And always look forward to what this team comes up with.
It is perpetually evolving akin to any other MMORPG. I look forward to updates as much as the next guy, but I still prefer to see things at least moderately refined before they are made live.
You are absolut right and have the right to feel like a "patron" - i really like your engagement (no sarkasm).
my only problem is, that the term "beta" is always used as a shield after a fully bugged update - which could have easily prevented or at least moderated by various means. for example testing servers, more relying on founders with special access, "only realesing update AND update deadlines when the produkt (here the update) is done", be able to say no if you know that the update is not ready (even it means to get the one or other bad post in the forum) and so on.
And again - they are living and working in a harsh time and continious evolving field - therefor they have to earn mony, pay their bills, pay their employes and are more than allowed to earn money with a free to play game and make the best out of it.
the only thing i do not like is the use of "beta" as an excuss for repeatingly over-bugged updates which all could have been prevented or at least moderated by the right means.
Everyone has to make ends meet, but there's a saying: "Slow and steady wins the race". It is faster to do things right the first time even if that means a delay than it is to do things wrong the first time then fix them later.
"Overbugged updates" must be tested and checked. It's work of testers. It's beta, we all beta-testers, so it's our work. Simple.
Calling ourselves beta testers is walking a grey line, because we are already the customers or potential ones. There is no audience left to target besides XBox which will happen soon™.
Steam? Check. Playstation? Check. Unless they eventually bring Warframe to people's IPhone and Samsung apps after XBox, I really don't see anything else that they would expand to. This product is already available to the general public at this point.
Then every MMORPG,MMO-Shooter or comparable Online-Game is in a permanent Beta. I dont see any massive fundamental changes which differs from bigger updates of more prominent MMORPGs,etc. who are not considered to be in permanent Beta.
What was so massive and fundamental in this update that it would justife your interpretation of Beta?
The change of the UI? Several other games have undergone this process and are not in permanent Beta because of it.
The few "so called missions"? How many are there? And are they real missions? For me 90% of the co called missions are simple regular missions, thrown into a new context.
The kubrows? Yeah, everyone likes to have little Pokemon in a fast paced action-shooter.
The new Frame? Every 0815 online game gets new classes or abilities at regular basis.
I believe we have an accord. Fine tuning and adding more content (DLC as one person pointed out) is the remainder of things left to do.
-
There are five problems with Quickthinking.
1) Nerfed to only heal you up to 2 HP which invalidates the Rage combo for an endless cycle.
2) At max rank, your current energy X 2.4 is your effective health. Even if you had max energy using a level 30 Loki Prime and max rank Flow, that is only 1260 bonus health (525 X 2.4). "Woopdeedoo". A level 30 Ash, Saryn, and Zephyr have 1110 health with just a maxed out Vitality.
3) Abilities and channeling costs energy which means you are effectively killing yourself using them, even with 75% efficiency.
4) Energy drain leaders and Magnetic aura proc leaders are your kryptonite.
5) Clients do not always activate the mod.
Edit: Also Trinity is just about the only thing that works decently with Quickthinking due to Energy Vampire, Link, and Blessing.
-
I personally think Warframe stepped right back into Beta with the advent of U14.
I humorously agree in the sense that Warframe arguably went backwards with U14, but not to the extent that it reverted from release to beta.
As a matter of fact Warframe is offered as full game on PS4. By the way betas are not allowed to have trophy support on PS platforms.
But what I have to say, full release games usually have full campaign even if it's short and full compliment of levels and bosses. Warframe just got first quest on PC. 1 quest, and half of bosses are placeholders. Make it 15 main quests and every planet with a unique boss, and that's a release version. Sure, you can keep adding game later. But 1 prologue quest is not a full release material.
That's a bit of contradiction, but I certainly agree with you that Warframe should improve its quest system and rework many of its bosses, but even then there is more to it than that to determine whether a game is beta or not.
Warframe isn't just being tested. It is being played, so it isn't just a beta. That said, it is still being developed and new features are added regularly with a support team and development team working full time on the project.
It is a growing Public release development game. Every issue that comes up can not just be excused down by any fan. The other players don't have to say anything about most issues other then if they agree or disagree and why. Saying "Give it time it is a beta" is not constructive, discussing the issue, or even helpful.
Discuss an issue or stay out of the thread. Don't try to include an unnecessary excuse. That said, some of the details that have come up in the latest patch could have people telling others "I like this portion. Please give it a week for the game damaging bugs to be worked out then try it a few days and tell us if you like it better." But don't expect some of those issues to cool down. Some things are really bothering people and won't get better once the bugs are filtered out.
You mind if I add your quote to the OP?
I don't believe that Warframe will ever get a whole campaign. It's a fast access 'n fast paced shooter, no mmorpg or mmo-shooter, if we are honest.
It is only on the paper a beta, because of obvious reasons. I am not angry or so, i think i would have perhaps done it the same, but that doesn't change a thing. buggy regular updates do not automaticaly indicate the beta status. fact is, that warframe is practically finished and it has made and is making a LOT of money with this game.
But these new types of long-time-open-butyoucanpayasmuchasuwant-beta are becoming quite regular in the todays gaming landscrape. I do not like it and there are many reasons beside those named in the video.
Furthermore i do not think that warframe is made out of charity, with the only goal to please the customer and that we should happy to have it and therefor do not have to complain. they are making enough money with warframe. the transition to ps4/xbox is also manly monetary based - not a gift for the gaming community. i dont know on which planets you all live :D
There are many marketing strategies and as I previously said, at the end of the day a commercialized product is made to earn profit and discontinued when it does not. They are not a charity as you pointed out eloquently.
I enjoy games that have replayability which is essentially MMORPG as a genre of its own, however even I know when to say 'meh' and move on. Warframe is still progressing, so that time has not come, but I would very much appreciate if they were more willing to hold off deadlines to do major testing.
Think of it this way. Back in "ye old days", hosts or servants would always take the first bite of their meal. Why? This was because occasionally hosts or servants would poison their guests or king respectively, so it was customary for hosts or servants to reassure their guests or king respectively that the food was not poisoned.
I see, I'm all for it, kinda wonder how they do the internal testing.
They already do, but it was not very thorough for U14.
-
Gracious, another extra credits video... while I love the EC team and their videos are without much doubt correct, I think it's a little... silly whenever someone links one to do their points for them. No offense.
I'm not really linking them to do my points so much as I'm just adding secondary opinion to reinfornce mine. My opinion is that this is a fully released game that will endlessly update like other MMORPG's which is because I believe after forming two partnerships (Valve and Sony) and closing their founders package awhile back seals the deal in terms of leaving beta. My other opinion is that this last update was poorly done beyond eye candy and that further updates should be slightly delayed for quality assurance of their new content. Extra credit makes a valid point about early access tends to have a few advantages, but many big disadvantages. Another point mentioned briefly is the "completeness" of "betas".
Here's stuff that DE still have to do before Full Release, based on my opinion:
1) Unique tilesets for ALL planets
2) More enemy types to create a more unique experience and variety. Contest winners currently on the way, but may not be enough imo.
3) Balancing and fixes
4) More missions w/ Lore
5) Rework ALL Bosses and add new bosses
6) Reduce repetitiveness some way
7) OPTIONAL: Make farming somehow fun.
Well, that is certainly things down the road DE should accomplish to add more content. I'm not sure how they would accomplish making farming fun.
Nah, surprises are a good thing too. Besides, update 14 seems to be based around making the game easier to understand for new players. If veteran players can't figure out something as simple as the Kubro system then how could they expect new players to do so? That is a "bug" test in its own right. If they held your hand and explained how everything worked then it would defeat the point.
I'm going to disagree. I'm a Mastery Rank 16 and I played through the entire new tutorial. The game is actually harder for new players to understand now arguably and the tutorial honestly didn't explain much besides the game controls which anyone can look at in the options. Mods, market, codex, etc. were left for guesswork and what makes it worse is the UI is much harder to use. The tutorial is still an improvement over before and felt more involving, but there were many things still left out that are core features of the game.
You basically just described their purpose in the game lol. They also add lore to the game, which this game desperately needs. Alad V, Sargus, Vay Hek hello? Every time DE adds a reworked boss they add lore to it. Which is also going to happen with the Infested Alad V with the new J3 Golem. So yes, bosses are a purpose in the game.
I agree that bosses add lore, but the bosses still lack replayability. In terms of MMORPG, that is mediocre design.
Really can't agree with your blanket statement on PVE/PVP games. Just because you're playing against other people doesn't mean longevity simply because of the randomness of pvp play. PVE or PVP has the potential to be good or to suck and appeals to many in many different ways. Hell, Everquest 1 still has a playerbase and it's pve. Not really sure what that has to do with the game still being a beta technically either.
As far as beta. The game still has CORE aspects being revisited/remade etc in so many areas of the game let a lone anything new they make. It is not ready in that sense.
I prefer PvE games honestly because I prefer working with other players rather than working against them. Nonetheless, PvP adds an independent variable to the game which freshens the experience. However that also includes venemous behavior which is made worse when players are competiting against each other. Everything has its own set of pros and cons after all. Everquest has a decent quest system which put ours to shame.
The only surprise is when players realize they lost real world money and time to a bug.
I'd understand your point if one of the largest and arguably inciting feature wasn't behind a buggy paywall of RNG based malice. A fraction of the community can barely test the Kubrows, and the rest is waiting or grinding to join them.
Even after 4 Kubrows, I still have no frakkin' clue how the damned thing works. If DE explained to us what SHOULD happen, then we'd know if something really was bugged out and broken.
Right now, we don't really know if the scrambler's bugged (it is on the bug megathread though), we don't know how long it should really take for a kubrow to grow (my first one matured in little over a day), we don't know if loyalty should be the way it is, we don't know if the imprints are bugged, giving completely random results, even though a simple punnett square can give you a base idea.
The only thing we're testing, is how much money can we throw into a freshly bugged update.
Kubrow to me don't really add much to gameplay other than a burden of time and resources for players, even if we take out the guesswork and bugs.
The reasons you give for beta are not valid reasons. Its beta while DE says it is, no other reason and none other needed.
The quality of a release has nothing to do with it being beta, its about professionalism of the company and how good their testing/QA/release procedures are.
The payment model has a bearing as once you start taking peoples money there is now a duty to provide the customer with what they have paid for. This doesn't stop it being beta though.
The lack of end game is irrelevant. End game is what DE says it is or even if there should be one. The customers may not like or agree but again this is purely DE's call.
For me, and this is my own opinion, the game has gone beyond beta and is now in the DLC/Update cycle. If I didn't think this I would not have dropped a single penny into it. I consider it good enough fun and complete enough to be worth splashing some cash when I feel like it. Consider this a big +1 for the game already. I look forwards to seeing what the later DLC/Update cycles will bring.
I can agree with the update cycle, which is one of my points. Warframe is a MMORPG which is by very nature an update cycle.
Every shill on a game's forum ever.
Beta is just an excuse used by devs nowadays to justify that a game is a buggy mess.
Amusing. This is partially true, but to me it has more to do with the fact that Warframe is a MMO for space ninjas and has gone about 3 specific things, soon to be 4 when XBox gets involved.
I don't understand what you're trying to do with this thread.
To delay updates. "Haste makes waste". Update 14 feels a bit rushed.
-
beta or not i still have a tenno love for the game it feeds my Mind all the time with out Fail.
I doubt there are many players that post on the forums or play the game that do not have similar feelings. Why would they bother to if they did not care for the game? I feel similar to you either way, but I would like the community to survive.
Fortunately for DE, it's not your opinion or definition of a Beta that matters, but their own.
Thanks for the spam thread.
I did not get the memo that you were the spokesman for DE and a forum moderator. If DE cares, they care, if they don't, then they don't. If this thread is considered spam by forum moderators, then they will delete or lock it, if this thread isn't considered spam by forums moderators, then they won't.
Thanks for the spam reply.
its going to stay beta till someone gets Rank 30
and max rank atm is 16, so it will take a while
That would be one look at end game, but I would not say that defines the end phase of beta. By the time that happens well, someone else put it rather nicely.
Minecraft was pretty complete when it was in "Beta".
Indeed it was. Here is one video very relevant to that.
Not possible, will need several thousand more weapons and several hundred more Warframes.
Edit: Here's the math.
Yep, even if we factor in the solar system bonus experience.
-
I doubt there would be any discernible difference if they stopped considering Warframe a beta and deemed it "Released."
I am inclined to agree with that. It would be still be an evolving MMORPG with or without the beta label until DE decided to stop adding content to Warframe. That is another reason in addition to other stated reasons why I do not consider Warframe a beta.
Although this is indeed supposed to be a beta alot of these releases are being treated as an actual full launch with alot of info being held back until features get released live,, this kind of thing is not helpfull when people are meant to be testing things or if one happens to release something that folks either don't want or could have easily given feedback to make something better before a large feature release.
There is also the added worry that after a time when a game feels very complete that devs recently like to keep the "beta" tag as a crutch to justify features or mechanics that have been broken and untouched for a long time.
PS: love extra credits they do great stuff which i think ALL game devs should take note of.
Regardless of whether or not we would consider ourselves "open beta testers", we are customers or potential ones if have yet to spend money. This is a commercialized product at the end of the day and like any product, it stops getting put on the shelves when it stops bringing in revenue. Warframe is here to stay until the playerbase moves on, but the playerbase staying is largely contingent on updates. My desire is to see further updates from here on executed far better than that of Update 14. It is by far the most controversial update released to date. There are just as many people praising this update as there as many people disappointed or frusturated.
Extra credit does a superb job of evaluating the problem and the cause when it comes down to games.
-
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say they're adding both PvE and PvP dark sector conflicts?
The Dark Sector Conflicts were said to have PvP priority with the option of PvE.
Warframe is far from completion son.
I have been here a while and you a while as well.
This is far from release.
Just because they throw out some ships does not mean they are ready.
14.0.123091287401974 is great evidence needed at that.
-Note I can not hear anything thanks to the windows 8 laptop deciding on not giving sound. </3
That depends on your view of Warframe's progression which is different than my own.
I have been here since the Lato Vandal, just after the Braton Vandal.
The ships along with the rest of the update are the main point of this thread which is for future updates to be given a delay for more QA before release.
Either your speakers are broken, your audio software is uninstalled, you have the wrong audio device set, or you muted them.
Warframe will be in beta as long as it has to.
I partially agree in this way: The game will continue change as long as it needs to. Otherwise what is the incentive for people to keep playing after a certain point?
Look at all of those placeholder bosses and tell me this game is finished.
That is a fair point, however bosses don't serve much purpose in this game anyways aside from farming them to acquire parts to build a Warframe or acquiring mods found only in their drop tables then never fighting them again either.
This game will always be in beta or there for a very long time
If I were to agree with you on your definition of Beta, then I would also agree that this game will always stay as one.
A true friend, sits by you'r side even when times are rough.
We are that friend, to whom might have a rough time. This video does represent a issue of these types of releases. But warframe is something different, and we have kinda gone past that worry point of time. Imagine this, at one point the game might feel done, when they fix core mechanics and those scenarios. Those are the factors after that, what we have now is essentially what will keep going for a long time, as long as the players are there. The supporters are there.
Dont worry as long as you are that friend, it will be ok.
-Cpt
I agree with the principle that this game will keep going as long as there are players, but I also firmly believe that in order for this game to keep those players, the game must continue to progress. Warframe is in fact progressing, but I'm somewhat worried about the execution of this progression.
Look at the old weapon designs, the bosses, the positively ancient corpus ships, the bugginess of U14 and how long it's taken DE with 24/7 work to patch it, and tell me it's not beta.
Because I know people will say this: Paying makes it full is not an excuse. Its a free to play game. They need those transactions to keep the company running. People are basically saying "They chose to make this game free to play; therefore they cannot call it 'beta.'" It's absolutely unreasonable to penalize a company with an open beta free to play by forcing them to call it a full release, simply because they wish to get paid.
So following that, Warframe is still a beta. It has no endgame, and that alone make it fail as a full release and require a 'beta' title.
I support the Beta tag for the near future until I can see Warframe doing reasonably well under a full release tag.
New content that has not been thoroughly tested will always be plagued with bugs, which falls under my original point of delaying further updates for QA testing. There is a flip side to that. There are players that call a product no longer Beta when it has micro-transactions, but keep the following things in mind:
1) The Founders package started in the closed Beta and remained available for quite a bit of time into open Beta. What do you call these "Founders"?
2) Digital Extremes made a deal with Valve to join Steam
3) Digital Extremes made a deal with Sony to join PS4
It is pretty clear that DE is aware of these limitations and has been investigating ways to address it. Many possible scenarios could play out, but I think [DE]Steve mentioned moving toward PC/Console update parity. This would require a, likely, update/hot fix release schedule change. In other words DE would likely have to internalize or seperate the early release of updates. If they delayed they will have to rely on internal testers to discover bugs, If they split te servers in two they will need more resources. There are of course many other possibilities, this is just one.
There are many possibilities indeed. If Warframe were to split the game into two servers, the first comparison in mind would be LoL PBE, but as you said, it would cost extra resources. I was thinking more towards said internal testers to discover the majority of bugs before releasing updates live.
-
While I do not agree Warframe is still a Beta, this video hightlights the problem with early access to new games/content. For Warframe, that would include Update 14 which has had many mixed feelings by the community.
Regarding my reason for not considering Warframe a Beta, there are many other multiplayer games in a similar phase that are still constantly evolving yet considered a complete game. If these games did not, the playerbase would inevitably move on to a newer game. This is especially true in PvE games which Warframe falls under. PvP games have a longer shelf life solely because competing against players offers a different experience every time. I am not advocating that Warframe resorts to PvP as their end game, merely that in order for Warframe to survive it must continue to evolve, but with one condition. That condition is to evolve in complete phases. Why? For the very reasons that the video above highlighted.
"Adapt or perish, now as ever, is Nature's inexorable imperative." -H.G. Wells
-
Every frame is viable late game except Ember, Saryn, and Oberon because every other frame has at least one useful ability late game.
Ash: Smokescreen and Bladestorm
Banshee: Sonar
Excalibur: Radial Blind
Frost: Snowglobe
Hydroid: Undertow and Tentacle Swarm
Loki: Invisibility and Radial Disarm
Mag: Pull and Shield Polarize
Nekros: Terrify and Desecrate
Nova: Antimatter Drop and Molecular Prime
Nyx: Chaos and Absorb
Rhino: Roar and Rhino Stomp
Trinity: Energy Vampire, Link and Blessing
Valkyr: Warcry and Hysteria
Vauban: Bastille and Vortex
Volt: Speed and Electric Shield
Zephyr: Tornado and Turbulence
Weapon wise...
Beam Rifle: Amprex
Assault Rifle: Boltor Prime or Soma
Semi-Automatic Rifle: Latron Prime
Sniper Rifle: Lanka or Vectis
Beam Shotgun: Phage
Automatic Shotgun: Boar Prime
Semi-Automatic Shotgun: Drakgoon
Bow: Dread
Grenade Launcher: Penta
Rocket Laucher: Ogris
Revolver: Akmagnus
One Handed Sniper: Marelock
One Handed Shotgun: Brakk
One Handed Rocket Launcher: Angstrum
Blade Weapon: Dragon Nikana or Dual Ichors
Blunt Weapon: Bo Prime
-
Grineer. That includes the grunt who is usually talking because one dialogue includes "For the queens".
-
Ah, that argument again. It's not really beta anymore. It's continues development. Essentialy this game is allready finished (it's basicly behaving and treated like a fully released game allready), but they constantly upgrade it as long as it's income finances the development. It's closer to early access. However under the guise of open beta they have more creative freedom and can change more.
The people who leave now are not playtesters as you see them, they are actual potential customers of the company. Them leaving means a potential loss in income for DE. Too many potential customers leaving, means drop in income and therefor drop in resources for the development team.
I'm not saying the people leaving now will stop the development. But too many minor blows to the number of customers can damage the income over time. This game is allready burning through the customers which other games might get after they are fully finished. Each with the chance of them never comming back.
Considering this being beta as you say, wouldn't it make more sense to stop putting content behind grind walls so that we the "beta testers" can get our hands on the new content in order to play test it for them?
I mean how they are they supposed to get a good idea of the issues with new content like the Kubrows or Mirage if only like 200 out of the thousands of beta testers can access it at the moment.
Now the counter argument to that is that player are suppused to go through some time to earn the content and not get it done right away, in order to have goals or feel like having acomplished something to "earn" the new content. But that would indicate that we are not in fact beta testers but just regular players/customers.
All in all, i think people should consider to stop throwing the "only beta" argument around. This is not a beta test anymore.
A beta test would be like sailing a finished ship that needs some tweaks, like a different paintjob or more toilets. This game is more like the hull of a ship, allready at sea and us as passengers, but the engineers are still working on the interiors and what ever it should have sails or motors as drive.
Now, don't get me wrong. It's still good knowing they are working on getting the ship ready. It's just that this type of development can backfire.
This game is as much a beta as World of Warcraft, Diablo 3, Runescape, DayZ, Borderlands 2, Blacklight Retribution, Fallen Earth, Firefall, Combat Arms, PlanetSide, Dota 2, League Of Legends, and many other MMORPG.
The truth is, it is not. This game went from:
Alpha - DE explored the possibility of a project expanding beyond a previous game called Dark Sector.
Closed beta - Warframe required players to either buy a beta key or be gifted a beta key from other players that bought a beta key to play.
Open beta - Anyone could play and the founders deal was still around.
Release Canidate - DE partnered with Steam.
Release - DE Partnered with Sony (PS4).
There will always be new content until either players stop playing or DE stops caring.
-
Again, go look at my profile. Personally, I think this is overall an excellent update.
Aesthetically sure, functionally no. A game is more fun when it works conveniently than when it looks amazing. Performance is always more important than graphics in all games, because if I wanted to see something pretty, I would go look at art or videos. If something requires more actions than before to do the same thing and provides less initial information to do so, then that is called a downgrade rather than an upgrade. The old UI and the new UI is often compared to Windows 07 and Windows 08. My desktop has Windows 07 and my laptop has Windows 08. You can be certain that I prefer the Operating System with more functionality and simplicity (Windows 07).
"The most simple things can bring the most happiness."
-
I haven't used her personally but based on the wiki, she seems to have two extremely powerful low energy cost steroid abilities. The only other frame with anything comparable as far as steroids is Ash (Smokescreen), Loki (Invisibility), Oberon (Renewal), Rhino (Iron Skin and Roar), Saryn (Contagion), Trinity (Link and Blessing), Valkyr (Warcry and Hystera), Volt (Speed), and Zephyr (Turbulence).
By the way, steroid =/= crowd control like Excalibur's Radial Blind or Nova's Molecular Prime. Steroids are self-buffs, not enemy debuffs. However some might have both like Valkyr's Warcry and Trinity's Link.
-
I got an egg on my second attempt, but I have to wait for the incubator parts to build because I struggled to find where the incubator blueprints are in the market. I probably won't get the potato because of one other personal issue associated with this.
-
Yay for the most part, but I might take a break for awhile from Warframe until it fixes server stability, interface utility, and gamebreaking bugs.
-
I liked the part where we were forced to trade functionality for looks and style.
That was cool.
Indeed. I would have preferred if they delayed this update for more work into stability.
-
I can't access my treasury or my trading post because they apparently sank into the floor like quicksand in the spawn room of my dojo. All my flags sank down too.
-
@TisForTat
Tank, in the MMO sense, refers to the player that attracts the enemies' attention to protect the squad/party. It can rely on huge amounts of health, damage mitigation, evasion, magic or other methods to accomplish this. Calling Valkyr a tank only utilizes one aspect of this definition and it is not even the important aspect of being a tank (no taunt). If anyone is a tank, it is Nyx since Absorb does draw aggro and provides complete damage protection.
Valkyr actually has two of those definitions you mentioned and the other two have nothing to do with being a tank. Health? Heavy base armor and healing through Hysteria, check. Damage mititation? Warcry and Hysteria, check. She also jumps in the front lines because she is a melee centric that uses endurance to survive rather than stealth, thereby drawing aggro.
Evasion? Rogues which use evasion unlike tanks who do not are the polar opposite actually. You might as well call Loki a tank then.
Magic? Most classes use some form of magic but Mages use magic almost exclusively unlike tanks and are in fact highly fragile but bring exceptionally powerful crowd control. You might as well call Nova a tank then.
Nyx is another mage and if you consider one single ability being a tank despite being actually rather fragile outside of it, then I think your definition of a tank is too broad that that the classification is meaningless in the way you put it.
-
You could calculate the damage percentages if you provided the enemy level, to find armor, to backcalculate through reductions, but its a huge pain and the end result is that the wiki is accurate.I think we're agreeing about the corpse knockback mechanic, I was just trying to find the right term. Boltor Prime doesnt even do impact damage so it's impossible to get a stagger from it now.Gunners are on the list. I just find them easier to deal with than the missile heavies, maybe from practice on void missions. Admittedly the Viral proc is only useful pre50% health, and scales better the sooner it procs - but corrosive has that same scaling, and the proc chance is fairly low regardless; Rad gets 75% to Alloy and Viral gets a rough equivalent to about 30% to both alloy and ferrite at *extreme* armor levels, more @ less. (pulling 30% from comparisons that cold never quite catches up to Viral no matter how much armor)If you use 4x CP auras enemies have no armor - so the armor specific modifier no longer applies. Pure Viral becomes king, but puncture loses it's 50% bonus so it's probably better to switch to a different weapon - I bring Soma or Dread when I can get a group stacking CP auras.
Yeah, those are in order to make Corrosive+Cold. Note again that only the order of the elements matter - in this case Infected Clip and Stormbringer before Cryo Rounds, making Corrosive+Cold.
Negative. Boltor Prime deals puncture damage AND impact damage, albeit only a small fraction of the total. The only way to achieve knock back, stagger, stun or whatever you want to call it on a living enemy is an impact proc or blast proc if you modded for blast damage.
I already mentioned how viral procs function, but given that I know for certain that it deals some bonus damage, your build is probably more feasible, with or without CP aura against solely Grineer. In terms of heavy unit comparison, unless the Napalm scores a direct hit, the Heavy Gunner will deal more DPS, but Napalm can deal burst damage and hit multiple allies at once from AoE. The Bombard is more or less the same.
Specifically, Radiation gets +75% damage to Alloy Armored enemies, and 75% armor ignore against them.
Viral gets +75% damage against all Grineer humanoids.
Corrosive gets +75% damage to Ferrite Armored enemies, and 75% armor ignore against them.
Cold gets +25% to Alloy armored enemies and 25% armor ignore against them.
So in total, 180% Rad + 180% Viral gets +75% damage average and 75% armor ignore to 50% of that damage against Alloy enemies, and 37.5% damage against Ferrite armored enemies.
240% Corrosive + 90% Cold gets +~7% damage against Alloy armor with 27% of that getting 25% armor ignore, and +54.54% average damage against Ferrite, with 73% of that getting 75% armor ignore.
Personally I prefer the first setup as it has a more rounded damage distribution. The latter will give you a lot more damage against Ferrite targets, but a lot less against Alloy.
For Soma, yeah, I would go Rad+Bane for the last 3 slots; Shed vs Speed Trigger is optional. You could also go with Toxin instead of Bane but it uses more mod points and only adds a bit of damage against Ferrite, does less to Alloy than bane. Think the extra mod points is enough to force another forma too :S.
I do not agree about the "armor ignore" part. My Latron Prime which normally deals 2k damage per hit and 11k with crits before resistances and body multipliers are applied. With Corrosive damage it only deals roughly 1/4 original damage against level 70 Heavy Gunners. If what you say is true, it should actually be dealing closer to 2/3 original damage.
Armor ignore was removed from all damage types except Finisher in the final iteration of damage 2.0. There has only been one change since then and that is for Bleed procs. Bleed procs were reduced from 50% to 35% per second, but will ignore armor. This was only done because they reworked Ash.
You were right about flesh damage bonuses still being applied through armor (albeit a % of a %), but for armor ignore, that is not the case at all.
-
Top 5 Jump Attack AoE:
-Serro
-Orthos Prime
-Jat Kittag
-Bo Prime
-Galatine
Top 5 Damage
-Dakra Prime (Crimson Dervish)
-Dragon Nikana
-Jat Kittag
-Serro
-Orthos Prime
Top 5 DPS
-Dual Kamas
-Dual Ichor
-Fang Prime
-Ankyros Prime
-Kogake
Top 5 Critical Weapon
-Dual Ichor
-Dual Zoren
-Venka
-Kogake
-
Top 5 Speed
-Scoliac
-Dual Kamas
-Dual Zorens
-Fang Prime
-Dual Ichor
Top 5 Best appearance
-Dual Kamas
-Venka
-Glaive Prime
-Kestrel
-Orthos
Top 5 Range:
-Glaive Prime
-Glaive
-Kestrel
-Orthos Prime
-Ether Reaper (Stalking Fan)
Let me know if you have any in mind.
You didn't mention Dual Heat Swords, Heat Sword, or Heat Dagger for "Top 5 Jump Attack AoE" despite having the biggest AoE.
Three out of five of your " Top 5 DPS" aren't even "Top 10 DPS" (Dual Kamas, Ankyros Prime, Kogake). Where's Dragon Nikana, Bo Prime, and Orthos Prime?
You didn't have a fifth weapon listed in "Top 5 Critical Weapon", even the Ankyros or Dual Cleavers would have sufficed.
You didn't mention Amphis or Ankyros Prime for "Top 5 Speed even though they're the fastest besides Scoliac and there are two other weapons faster than Dual Ichors (Glaive Prime and Orthos Prime).
The rest to an extent would be agreeable.
-
Only a handful of weapons in the game are actually viable end game. Weapons that are just decent enough to clear the starmap would be at an even worse position if mods were nerfed. Unless DE also rebalances weapons and nerfs enemies scaling, this would be a terrible idea.
"warframe Is A Beta"
in General Discussion
Posted
Until you reach the higher ranks of Dota 2, you are stuck with people that either don't speak English, troll, or both. Anyways Dota 2 is based off the WoW Dota mod. Warframe is based off of Dark Sector. Here's the dates:
Dark Sector: March 25, 2008
Warframe Closed Beta: October 25, 2012
Warframe Open Beta: March 18, 2013
Warframe Steam: March 28, 2013
Warframe PS4: November 20, 2013
WoW Reign Of Chaos: July 3, 2003
WoW DoTA mod: 2005
Dota 2 Alpha: 2009
Dota 2 Beta: 2011
Dota 2 Release: July 18, 2013
It's a MMORPG and like every MMORPG there is a cash shop if it is free to play or a paid subscription if there isn't. This is necessary to maintain servers, pay employees, pay utilities, and whatever is left for profit. But there is more to it than that. Players that disagree with me state it is Beta because it is missing content:
1) Weapons/Warframes/Sentinels/Pets/Starmap Missions for Mastery Rank until 30 (which will take hundreds if not thousands of each currently)
2) Unique tilesets for each planet
3) Reworked bosses including "fillers"
4) More enemies
5) Etc.
But the bottomline is, while that adds more to do in Warframe, it does not change how we do it in Warframe. It is DLC plain and simple. The only actual feature (and not just DLC) I had left out earlier in my response to Mokkania was "Focus" since that is an idea that Steve just recently spurred.
Correct.
I have not played Firefall so I can't agree or disagree with your statement. Feel free to explain the development process and gist of the game though.
Warframe is supposed to be adding both content and improving/adding core features to the game. It is certainly better than most games I have played or heard of.
Also if you spend money, either you spent it in hopes it would support the game, spent it to buy a shiny, or a bit of both. I'm personally more inclined to the third scenario.
That depends. I don't generalize people with prejustice, but I do know people I have encountered after the fact fall unto that category.
My response to geomancer1918 is the same one I have to this. Mainly DLC is your argument.
Don't use caps. Anyways I agree to an extent. It is a two part responsibility. Players for their feedback and Developers for their hearkening. There are three types of players if we were to generalize people which I'd rather not, but for humorous purposes. Sheep, wolves, and dogs. I'll explain each.
Sheep are the players that tend to just blindly follow the majority of other sheep or the people in charge. Most of them just want to blend in, but some are black sheep that do it so that they might be in charge too some day.
Wolves are the players that tend to howl at everything. They are the ones that make a commotion and often unproductively negative. Sometimes they complain about the game and sometimes they complain about other players.
Dogs are the wolves that bark at what actually matters and stay quiet otherwise. They're tame very much like the sheep, but will make some noise when something big upsets them.
I consider myself one of those dogs.
Tell me why do fully released multiplayer games like Borderlands 2, Grand Theft Auto 5, WoW, etc. still release downloadable content? They're beta too? No? Well then.
Also if this is a beta, then we are beta testers technically and if we are technically beta testers, then by testing this product, we are technically working on it with the developers. No? Well then.
While I do not like getting lumped into categories, people that "parrot" ...It's beta bc fillers... do not enjoy being lumped together into categories either.
I already said it earlier in response to a spam reply, if the thread gets locked/deleted, then it gets locked/deleted, but for now there is no reason to lock/delete this thread and will stay so unless a moderator feels otherwise. If a moderator were to act upon this without stating a reason, I would have reason to have suspicion of their intentions for doing so, but as it is clearly not, therefore there is no purpose to feel that way right now.