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oriam

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Posts posted by oriam

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

    I just noticed that for the Quanta and QV, you listed the manually detonated secondary projectile's damage instead of the beams damage. It might cause confusion, as the rate of fire and magazine capacity values become irrelevant. Maybe add a cell comment, and/or list the beams damage instead for consistency?

    Nitpicking aside, these stats seems presented in a really convenient way overall. A always it's up to each reader to make good use of them. Calculations, builds and tiers are given exemples. Thank you very much for sharing :)

    Added the note, and thank you so much for getting the point of the chart :) Hope you will continue to enjoy it.

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted · Edited by oriam

    8 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

    There's a few lessons to be learned, but that's not one of them.

     

    There's no single 'right' way to mod a weapon. You can usually find 2 or 3 builds that are all slightly different, but work just fine for 95% of the game's content. Builds are surprisingly subjective at times, even after you run the numbers and find the clear winner.

     

    Paper-DPS is worthless. I've been preaching this one for a while, because it's such an easy mistake to fall prey to. Sure, my fancy MK1-Prime does 50k Radiation damage, but against a level 100 Bombard, 50k Radiation becomes 11,585 after you consider damage modifiers and armor mitigation. They have ~41.7k health at that level, so on paper you're 1-shotting them, while realistically 4-shotting. (And that's when you take the 'right' damage type. Imaging taking 50k Magnetic!)

     

    But if you had to take away only one lesson, I'd say consult, test, repeat. As mentioned earlier, I've been working on a calculator-by-simulation, and I regularly talk with a few people to confirm that I've got this or that aspect of the system correct, for maximum accuracy. I also compare the results I get against tests in the Simulacrum, to ensure that my numbers make sense. The program has gone from 'almost accurate' to 'pretty damn spot-on' because of this.

    The point is though, 95% of the time, a really bad weapon like my Poo-Poo which does 5k Radiation will be worst than you fancy MK1-Prime, and that's the bloody point of the chart.

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

    snip

    The fact is that base damage typing matter very little, at most they account for 45% of the average damage, and if they are physical their multipliers are much smaller than  elemental multipliers. If the base damage is elemental it will get mix in the average damage so there is no problem there. What you should use this chart for is a baseline, if the weapon i correctly modded you will deal quite a bit more damage, i think that the weapons will deviate at most 5% from their spot considering armor multipliers (based off memory of some calculations i did some time ago which was Rakta Cernos vs Dread, the Rakta did in fact win against all possible enemies). Status proc damage is also gravy.

    What i'm getting at is that you don't need a 100% precise tool with all of the variables, you need something good enough, that 100% precision is going to prove the chart wrong roughly 5% of times (referring to the comparisons of the weapons), it's not worth it to  create a simulator to get those 5% of cases covered imho.

    Also i'm adding status chance to weapons that would benefit from it (as of now it means 30%+ base status chance for melee and secondary, working on the primaries)

    I guess the Tier is kinda of the indicator in the chart, even though the Burston Prime has the highest burst dps in game, it is in tier 2, not on the level of ter 1 or tier 1.5 weapons, that is more of a felt/handling thing that i do account in the chart, and actually want feedback on.

    1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

    snip

    Read above to see why i feel the chart is useful,

    Now we are going to talk about the math:

    Let's start from the basics

    Average Damage per Shot= [ physical damage per shot + elemental damage per shot ] * [ 1 + ( critical multiplier - 1 ) * critical chance / 100 ]

    Now because no build in the chart uses IPS mods, and nobody should use them because they are bad.

    The elemental damage per shot is calculated off of the physical damage per shot

    so [ physical damage per shot + elemental damage per shot ]= physical damage per shot*(1+elemental multiplier)

    from now on PHYS*(1+ELE)

    The PHYS can be broken down in: base damage, base damage multiplier & multi-shot multiplier with this relationship

    PHYS= Base damage*(1+Base damage multipliers)*Multi-shot Multiplier

    From now on PHYS=BASE*(1+BASEm)*MULTIm

    my crit multiplier it's the same as yours, but uses the multipliers

    [ 1 + ( critical multiplier - 1 ) * critical chance / 100 ]= ((Crit Chance*(Crit multiplier-1))+1)

    From now on ((CRC*(CRM-1))+1), if you are using mods that alter your crit chance of multiplier the formula will look like this: ((CRC*CRCm*(CRM*CRMm-1))+1), also using percentages i don't need to divide the number by 100

    So the final thing would look something like this: Avarage Damage per Shot=BASE*(1+BASEm)*MULTIm*(1+ELEm)*((CRC*CRCm*(CRM*CRMm-1))+1)

    All of the words with a little m are numbers, and you can see where those numbers are coming from by looking at the build and the mechanics of the weapon you are checking out. (if a weapons has weird mechanics most likely at the formula above will be added a multiplier at the end eg.[ Average Damage per Shot=BASE*(1+BASEm)*MULTIm*(1+ELEm)*((CRC*CRCm*(CRM*CRMm-1))+1)*k]

    Average Damage per Shot will be called SHOT from now on

     

    Burst DPS: SHOT*fire rate

    I call fire rate ROF in the chart, so Burst DPS= SHOT*ROF*ROFm (the ROFm is a number that indicates any fire rate modifier on the weapon, again check the build to know its origin. Another thing that can show up here is a number that follows the ROFm This is usually for burst weapons eg. [Burst DPS= SHOT*ROF*ROFm*k]

     

    Burst DPS will be called BURST from now on

     

    Sustained DPS=BURST*clipsize / [ reload time + ( clipsize - 1 ) / fire rate ]

     

    Here our formulas are different because your is wrong, the correct formula should compare the time that it takes to empty a mag, and the time that it takes to empty a mag and reload, so the average percentage of time that you are shooting (emptying the mag) 

    As with before ROF is the rate of fire, and REL is the reload time

    the time to tempty a mag is calculataed= MAG/ROF

     

    So the time shooting would be something like (MAG/ROF)/[(MAG/ROF)+REL]

    To clean the formula we do this process (MAG/ROF)/[(MAG+REL*ROF)/ROF] and the we simplify the two ROF so we are left with MAG/(MAG+ROF*REL)

     

    So from now on: MAG/(MAG+ROF*REL)=Time firing=TFR

    Sustained dps= BURST*TFR

     

    And because i care about how often the weapon is going to proc i don't use the proc rate formula but the Status Chance formula= 1-(1-Status Chance)^(n of pelletts)

    which in the chart looks like: Status Chance(final)=1-(1-STC)^MULTIm

    So now you know where this numbers come from, the formulas are almost the same as yours, pretty sure your doing something wrong to not get the same numbers with the same build.

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

    I'm not sure where most of these damage numbers are coming from. None of the weapons I've calculated in the past show similar results.

    If you want to truly compare weapons you have to calculate proc probability, avg Bleed proc rate per second and Avg Bleed damage per second.

    Of course there's still things like crit Vs head-shots and armor will cause results to vary no matter what. This just seems like it will confuse new players.

    Also try this Dread build and re-evaluate please. http://goo.gl/4lXEf9

    If it wasn't clear enough, i don't really care about status.

    The chart uses all pure number without taking into consideration the damage type or armor, and includes a mini modding guide to help new players.

    Care to share what formula you use? One of the reason i created the chart is warframe builder bad math, so i wouldn't be surprise if the calculations there would differ from mine.

    That dread build is too slow imho, anemic agility is a must.

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted · Edited by oriam

    45 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

    It's not just about numbers on a piece of paper. There are multiple reasons why I'll choose the Strun Wraith over the Rakta Cernos, and the Dex Sybaris over the Synoid Simulor.

     

    And vice versa.

    The chart is just a tool to help player compare different weapons, but the tiers are admittedly a little bit arbitrary.. (Also having two of the most "apples to oranges" comparisons possible doesn't really help your point.)

    Warframe Damage Chart

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    After months away form warframe and spreadsheet, i'm back with an updated chart.

    This chart compares every weapon in game, all of the weapons use a build to maximize their damage potential.

    The Tiers are my personal opinion, if you think that they are wrong you are free to suggest a modification.

    If you spot any mistake in the chart's math or spelling, please let me know.

    Warframe Damage Chart

    To the Moderators: If this is not the right place to post the chart on i will happily move the post.

    Kohm And Kohmak Mechanics

    in Weapons

    Posted

    After the stealth nerf of the Kohm i couldn't get the precise stat for it, and the Kohmak didn't have a post explaining it's precise stat.

     

    I would normally check the wiki, but their pages are outdated, so:

     

    How many pellets do they shoot at fool spool?

    How many ammo do they consume at fool spool?

    How many shots do they need to reach fool spool?

    Kohm Consumes Wrong Ammo?

    in Weapons

    Posted

    You guys helped me a bunch, but there still things that i would like to know:

     

    I know that the Kohm has 12 palletts and consumes 4 ammo at full spool, but how many shots does it need to reach full spool?

     

    I know that the Kohmak has 6 palletts at full spool, but how many ammo does it consume at full spool, and how many shots does it need to reach full spool?

    Kohm Build

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    It shoots 1, 2, 4, 8, 10 pellets when spooling up if I'm not mistaken and at full spool it uses 4 ammo per shot.

    Note: At full spool, the spread is dramatically higher, so you can shoot a bit more accurately by pausing a little moment between shots.

     Thank you, just to be precise does the 4 ammo consumption start on the first 10 pellet bullet or the next one? Do you recommend the weapon? It seams like a real ammo hog but it does a ton of dps, what do you think?

    Kohm Build

    in Players helping Players

    Posted

    I was thinking about getting the Kohm, but i don't understand the changes in the U16, I know that: 

     

    it deals 30dmg per pellett, 

    it has 3,7 rof

    It has a spool-up time and the pallet count and ammo consumption changes during the spool-up

     

    So i want to know:

     

    How many shots does it take to get the Kohm to full spool-up?

    How many pallets does the Kohm shoot at full spool-up?

    How much ammo does the Kohm consume for each shot at full spool-up?

     

    The wiki is not updated, i already check it and the information was outdated and incomplete.

    Psa: Weapon Changes (Sniper Rifles & Launchers)

    in PSAs and Announcements

    Posted

    Launchers ammo nerf was way overdone, 20% of the current ammo capacity will be fine. With 20 shots this means that you should kill 25 times the enemies that you kill with a rifle, and that's not happening all the times

     

    SMG and Machine Pistols should have around double the ammo capacity than normal primaries and secondaries, so Grakata should have 1000 and A/Furis/Dex, Dual/Cestra, Twin/Viper/Wraith, Akstiletto and Twin Gremlins should have 400 ammo like the AkZani

     

    Also:

    >nerf to explosives happen

    >people start using bows

    >that Punch Trough/Tunderbolt man

    >cry babies whine

    >nerf to bows happen

     

    This cycle will only continue de

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