[Soooo the New Player Experience just completely negates The Second Dream]

Bro, new players have no way of knowing that the girl is a tenno from the trailer. For all they know, that girl is the woman speaking in the background and that the tenno are those statues laying in the ground.

The trailer is actually genius, because us who have completed TSD quest can confirm that the girl is A tenno cos she has somatic marking and can travel thru the void. BUT, we still cannot confirm if she is our tenno, because all she does if leave.

The logical thing for DE to do is to make that girl an agent(a kind of tenno initator)sent by the lotus to place the other tenno into the second dream state (remember when you were new and thought your character was the warframes? That's the second dream state) maybe that girl was woken up from hibernation on lua early, discovered she was human instead of a warframe early, and was prepared to wake all other tenno by spacemom

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

4 minutes ago, Oreades said:

IMHO Onslaught was a bandaid fix for the Focus Gains system that just really needs a complete overhaul. 

That said there needs to be consistency between mission types especially for something as fundamental as XP. If they start adding a whole bunch of caveats per game mode for something like how XP works, it going to confuse an already confusing system that too many people don't fully grasp, largely because it really isn't explained well within the game itself. They have to rely on third party sites and information from people who where there when a specific patch changed a specific thing. 

 

They don't pop in on the third of fourth stage, they're typically there from the start. It's that you don't notice that they made a bee line for the Grineer caves just outside of Cetus to mine/fish or that they are doing little circles at the gate to dodge the inactivity timer. At least not until you are already most of the way through the bounty because you where busy actually playing the game to notice them diligently not playing the game. 

Personally I've never had the game take a "significant" amount of time to load into Cetus and there are only three bounties that come to mind that are short enough so as to complete before you've loaded in. Hostage Retrieval, Hidden Cache and .... ok maybe I can only think of two and only because those can be finished in under a minute if the player(s) know what they're doing. Everything else is either more protracted or has an outright hard timer. 

yeah true, and while who knows when affinity 2.0 is, DE could implement some minor changes and maybe explain some stuff to us while their at it.

 

how come my cetus gates open after 2 minute? XD internet

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

6 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Just because they don't outright benefit from it doesn't mean people aren't going to keep doing it. Especially if they are Focus farming or adding Forma to their Saryn. At which point.... it kinda sorta sounds like it benefits them.  

In fact if anything it could make Focus farming Saryns even more aggressive than they are now. 

Doesn't seem like it solves the "problem" as much as it's going to make people hate aggressive frames/players that much more because now they are "stealing muh multipliers". Which goes on to create it's own set of player salt related problem(s). 

 

Personally Affinity leeching isn't even a fersrs problem, the real problem is people leeching the rewards off of bounties. Cause typically when you realized it, you're already to step three or four of five.... and your choices are to cut your nose off to spite your face (abandon the mission with one leg to go) or to suck it up and let them have their freeby so you don't lose out on yours. At which point you're kinda secretly hoping it's trash because you don't want them to get anything BUT at the same time you want the good reward. 

That is currently the one place in the game where leeching really bothers me and an XP multiplier that rewards the already aggressive players isn't going to fix that.

also, a lot of times people just want to play bounty solo for the iradite farm but forget to turn solo on.

also if typically you are at stage 3-4 when they join, meh, they miss half the bounty, the loading time into cetus and then into plains takes more time than a bounty stage XD

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Just because they don't outright benefit from it doesn't mean people aren't going to keep doing it. Especially if they are Focus farming or adding Forma to their Saryn. At which point.... it kinda sorta sounds like it benefits them.  

In fact if anything it could make Focus farming Saryns even more aggressive than they are now. 

Doesn't seem like it solves the "problem" as much as it's going to make people hate aggressive frames/players that much more because now they are "stealing muh multipliers". Which goes on to create it's own set of player salt related problem(s). 

 

Personally Affinity leeching isn't even a fersrs problem, the real problem is people leeching the rewards off of bounties. Cause typically when you realized it, you're already to step three or four of five.... and your choices are to cut your nose off to spite your face (abandon the mission with one leg to go) or to suck it up and let them have their freeby so you don't lose out on yours. At which point you're kinda secretly hoping it's trash because you don't want them to get anything BUT at the same time you want the good reward. 

That is currently the one place in the game where leeching really bothers me and an XP multiplier that rewards the already aggressive players isn't going to fix that.

i do agree that it may make focus farming aggressive, but hear me out. ESO was supposed to be the focus farm for DE, right? but nobody goes there except to get relics, so we disable this mechanic and make it inapplicable to focus except in the eso and so, and now ESO is no longer being used by people to leech levels and relic farming in eso is much faster cos everyone just brings sayrns and there are enough enemies in the eso to actually allow everyone to get the multiplier

eh?

 

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

Except that the problem is that even if you max out the multiplier (so you get 2.5x bonus affinity instead of 1.25x) then at best you're just breaking even with not bringing a second weapon.
After all doubling the affinity that you get at the end of the mission when the weapon that you want leveled is getting half of the affinity that it would be if you didn't bring another weapon means that you're getting the same affinity for it as if you didn't bring a second weapon in the first place.

that 2.5 was just an example, i did not do the maths, but that specific example seems not to get the point across, thank you i will change it.

Here's the thing: The people that bring Saryn and other nukers like that don't need weapon affinity.  And now you're system is penalizing everyone else in the group because they are there and preventing their multipliers from reaching the highest level because they can't get kills so they are getting less affinity than if that person had brought a frame that couldn't nuke the map.

why did they bring nukers to an weapon exp farming place like hydron then? if not for quick runs so they can do more runs = more exp which my system kinda helps them with since they are getting the kills but also helps other members of the squad since they get the same exp as before but with a potential bonus and less likeihood of teammates being afk and having to carry their teammates?

 

sorry i dont know how to quote specific parts, im new on forum writing

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

Just now, KIREEK said:

The issue si that the game already rewards players that do more, including killing enemies, so i don't see what kind of encouraging the game needs on top of what it already has

You belong to a squad, if you do not help the squad, the mission will take more time, especially in defenses, on the long term this can be hours and hours of grind that can be avoided, if the players played.

Your idea would only benefit those who clear maps in a blink of an eye, a capture would benefit the top killer 1st and foremost, leaving most in the dust, collecting the remaining loot, while this is a clear effort -> reward system, it will only increase the big gap between the great players and the average veterans.

there is a specific problem in hydron, sedna or any other popular weapon level farming place. if you do 50% of the damage say, then you are looking at 4 more runs to wave 10 than the guy doing 0damage, sure you may finish each run 1 minute faster but you are still left in the dust by the guy who is leeching. and there are tons of guys who want to leech because otherwise they have to do 30 minutes just to level up 1 weapon. what ive made is not designed to be a general reward system, its just to fix the problem we have with our current best level farming system and maybe the focus system as well. and also "if a weapon kills an enemy, 25% of exp goes to the warframe 50% to the weapon that kills and 25% is split between other equipped weapons" i think this change may help people farm exp faster

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

19 minutes ago, Modeaus said:

Um no.   

Firstly I like to level sometimes as a Speedva or a buff Rhino. I'm not out to get kills but I'll support the team so that I can leech that exp. But if XP is related to kills you can be damn sure I'm going to bring a kill frame and you're never even going to see a mob. You'll be sat there wondering what's going on and I'll have finished my forma by wave 10. 

if you killed everything by frame, you will only get the 50000 or something for completing the mission onto the weapon you forma. idk what you are talking about, finishing your forma by wave 10, please read the wiki https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Affinity

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

ok Tsukinoki

i get the feeling you dont know how affinity is split from your comments, read the wiki if you're unsure

comment 1 is wrong, if you want the exp bonus to affect the weapon you want to level, you have to bring another weapon that can kill, or else you dont get the multiplier which is based on how many kills you have

warframe kills do not give any exp to the weapons you level up, so your counterpoints 1&5 are wrong.

counterpoint 3 is interesting, because the affinity is additive and very specific, solo players will not be "punished". what happens is that the more players you have, the more enemies spawn and therefore generally the higher your exp multiplier will stack but since nobody solos defense missions for exp this does not punish the "solo exp farmers" because they do not exist.

also, i may not've explained clearly but this is a system that will not punish players who do not get to kill, its added affinity not replaced affinity, because to be real, DE it takes at least 3 runs to max a weapon without leeching an hydron, that is at least 30 boring minutes for 1 maxed weapon, thats insane even for a grind game.

 

edit: the multiplier is stacked based on how many kills you have

 

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

Just now, HEA-Devazone said:

solo mode

shouldnt work on solo, 1 its capped, 2 it scales based off a lot of enemies, maybe it can be useful for long runs focus farming but then i dont see why you wont just get a squad together

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

32 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

You get more in a mission if you pursue killing, destroy crates, open lockers, open caches, do things well and fast and by clearing the path for other players to help you, it's a long term investement that grants alot of goodies, some players cannot see this, the grasp is just to short, what matters is often the end of mission reward, which is why these players may tip into afk gameplay since it's not far away from what they are doing.

The issue is that afk gameplay isn't allowed, players that receive warns have 1 of 2 choices, either they start playing or they quit the game, being the later one quite common, this because the warn forces them to do something they aren't in the mood to do, the game becomes a grind and there is no easy way out.

So the incentives not to be afk are plenty, you:

•  get more for the time you are spending ingame
•  are not violating any rules
•  are prone to keep playing the game

Some of the benefits you mention like exp is something you get based on your performance, if you run a capture mission and kill 200 enemies, you get more exp than just running the entire mission and destroying 1 single corpus camera

Players with common sense will never want to waste time or even think of being afk, because the rewards you get are pitiful the more static you become, fully static gameplay and you risk the entire account.

my whole proposal was about encouraging people to bring and use something that can kill enemies in exp farming, read my post first please and post relevant conversation.

in defense missions for exp farm you actually get more from being afk due to the way the affinity system works, and since its so prevalent nobody bothers to report and it can make farming exp or formaing a real bit##, so your whole latter half of the comment was irrelavent here, though it is half right 

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

do you know how exp works? just asking

45 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Warframe is not a game that is balanced around having 4 players in a mission. You'll always have someone not being able to contribute because the work has already been done.

All this would do is make people toxic about "kill stealing" which would be an actual nightmare.

I dont understand why you are even complaining. More people means more enemies spawning, which means more affinity for you. And if you kill the enemies yourself you have better control where that affinity goes aswell.

and yes, i can see kill stealing becoming a factor. and no, i dont understand that last sentence, i like more people, just there is a lot of hate on leeches and the current affinity system does not reward players who play the game when exp farming then players who do nothing

but thank you for the great points

 

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

29 minutes ago, Fiftycentis said:

Then you find yourself in a mission with a saryn and you abort because you are going to get low affinity even trying to kill

 

And honestly... You want to increase the grind?

 

If one doesn't want waves to go long he'll bring a fast way to kill things, or join a friend who gets the kill, if you bring a full set of lvl 0 equipment... Well, you know you can't rely on pubs for anything

this is a way to deal with exp leeches, it discourages saryn becasue 100% of warframe kills go to the frame so saryn does not benefit from this addition

also how does this increase the grind, expect by maybe decreasing clear time cos sayrns and max strength4volts are gone but it literally gives more exp in exchange for you playing the game in a way that makes it more interactive and enjoyable for other squad members

and yes, you can kill things fast, it will be a choice whether you want fast runs or runs with more levels on your mr grind weapon

[a way to get rid of leeching in affinity farming]

 

how to get rid of leeching in exp farming

 so we should encourage active contribution and discourage afk or little contribution.

encouraging active contribution  is easier, however, we cant fall into the trap of seeing damage as contribution as some players like to contribute in other ways (#maxrangenidus2) or cannot contribute much damage. so we must have an incentive to actively deal damage and a passive exp gain for those who can't to fall back on.

the goal is to incentivize  everyone to bring at least 1 method of killing the enemy, this way the situation where waves take minutes to kill can be avoided.

we can change the affinity distribution a little bit:

if a weapon kills an enemy, 25% of exp goes to the warframe 50% to the weapon that kills and 25% is split between other equipped weapons

then add add a capped mission completion exp multiplier based on number of enemies killed would work.

the completion bonus is the orange exp you see on mission summary screens. it is currently i think 1.25 of what the item earned in the mission.

what i suggest is a bonus amount of multiplier for every enemy the player kills, increasing in strength as players pass tiers of enemy killed and also capped at a certain amount of enemies killed.

for example: every kill the player gets until 25 kills adds 0.002 to the 1.25 multiplier, until at 25 kills the player have achieved a 1.3 multiplier and then at 75 kills a.... ect ect. until at say 300 kills where the player gets a 2.5 times multiplier on the completion bonus.

1: this incentivizes players to bring something to kill enemies with.

2: on non-killing focused missions, this exp multiplier doesnt matter too much.

3: when playing solo, this multiplier might not matter too much either, narrowing the usage down to group exp farming.

4: the bonus could be worth more for tougher enemies like eximus or nox

5: with this, not only does it encourage participation, it also encourages being able to kill things fast without using warframe abilities, removing banshee, saryn etc from the meta and bringing in #maxrangenidus2222222!. 

6.the bonus should be small per kill, maybe becoming more powerful the more enemies you kill. encouraging longer missions.

7. this makes the infested and corpus potentially give more exp, as infested have larger numbers than grineer and corpus have less, but elite units that count count kill bonus stacks when killed. if so, this would even out the exp gain from the factions.

please give me your thoughts and comment with constructive (that means useful) feedback, id love to hear it and will reply if not grinding for MR.

thanks for reading, tenno

have fun and may RNjesus smile upon you

edit1: explaining the kills for exp system

edit 2: sorry folks, missed the exp distribution change if a weapon kills an enemy, 25% of exp goes to the warframe 50% to the weapon that kills and 25% is split between other equipped weapons