Jump to content


PC Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation


About Hiruma-Kai

  • Rank
    Silver Initiate

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. DR generally (nothing preventing there being a DR that only applies to shield or health for example) applies to all incoming damage. As noted, this typically makes it more valuable than armor since it applies to an automatically recovering health pool, shields. However, armor only applying to health I believe was originally intended to make an interesting dichotomy. Shields can take less damage, but recover. Health and Armor combined are a much larger pool (since they multiply), but require some action on the player's part to recover (or picking up health orbs - there are no shield orbs for example). It leads to a slowly dwindling resource that needs to be conserved, and occasionally pulling back to recover shields. I suppose at some point along the way, power creep trivializes this for most of the player base. Its also the reason why you see some frames not bothering with shield mods (they have good armor and health and utilize health recovery), while often on DR frames they will use shield mods. This leads to a larger variety of frame builds and play styles. Although I suggest rather than talking in terms of armor, damage reduction, shields, health, why not get to the bottom line and talk about how much damage a frame can take before dropping, since that is the point of DR. Make it take longer to drop to the bleeding state. If people feel like they need a 90% DR ability, on top of shields, armor, and health, that is the equivalent of saying they need something like 20,000-40,000 effective hit points before a warframe is worthwhile to them. This is because on most frames shields are somewhere between 100-1,000 hit points typically (depending on mods), and armor between 300-600 (x2 to x3 multiplier in terms of DR), and health around 1,000 with Umbral Vitality. I will note that level of hit points strikes me as complete overkill for most of the Starchart and Sorties, trivializing them in a sense. That is Inaros levels of tanky-ness. What level enemies would you like to see warframes balanced against? At some point, all tanking methods that don't rely on invulnerability, not getting hit, or preventing the enemy from attacking, eventually fail in sufficiently high level endless missions. Or in other words, what spread of effective hit points are people willing to see on base warframes? This can go anywhere from ~500 (unmodded squishy frame) to infinite (invulnerability like Valkyr Hysteria or Nyx Assimilate). If we're talking without warframe abilities and basic mods, straight health,armor, shield, then probably Inaros Prime with 6,727 health and 658 armor (just 3 umbral mods), is in the range of 21,000 effective hit points. Same mods on say Ivara puts her at around 1,800 effective hit points. So currently, there's something like a factor of 100 difference in EHP between the lowest and highest options (ignoring straight up invulnerability and things like Rhino's Iron skin or Ivara's invisibility). It sounds like people would prefer the lowest EHP frames be brought up to at least Inaros' level with abilities and 3 basic shield/health/armor mods?
  2. Nothing wrong with personal testing and experience. If you find no effective difference for you, then that is a reasonable conclusion for yourself. I personally do find a difference in my play between 700 and 2747 armor (for example). If we come to different conclusions due to play experience, it just means we play differently and notice different things. Out of curiosity, what is your usual content? I admit the hardest content I've used Valkyr Prime using all 3 umbral mods was Steel Path survivals,only up to 1 hour and 10 minutes (Ceres, Grinneer) and 55 minutes (Orokin Derelict, Infested). I can only really take about an hour of survival before I need to get off the computer and do something else. Got my steel essence drops and left at that point. Anyways, the armor has helped me survive knockdown/stagger on some occasions, long enough to let me get back to operator mode and a Vazarin dash. Given my health was hit the 200-500 range on multiple occasions (mostly due to trying to rely on shield gating and then getting knocked down), it definitely made a difference at that tier of difficulty as by that point, without the armor Valkyr would have been dead. Admittedly, this only puts the enemies in the level 200+ range. Of course even with 2000 armor or more modest armor and a 90% DR ability, at some level its not possible to tank at all (shield gating/invulnerability abilities/prevent enemies from attacking you are your only options). I haven't looked up the damage scaling formulas for enemies so not exactly sure where that crossover point is. Are you typically trying higher level content that requires AoE crowd control and/or spammed frost globe levels of damage mitigation? Frost's power set certainly has better CC in the form of Avalanche for example.
  3. Linear effective hit points is something like the following. Damage reduction due to 600 armor: 300 / (300 + 600) = 0.33 of the damage gets through, or 67% damage reduction If you have 1000 hit points, it takes 3,000 damage to drop you to zero. Or 3,000 effective hit points. Damage reduction due to 900 armor: 300 / (300 + 900 ) = 0.25 of the damage gets through, or 75% damage reduction If you have 1000 hit points, it takes 4,000 damage to drop you to zero. Or in other words, 4,000 effective hit points. In this case, 300 more armor has resulted in being able to take 1,000 more damage. Damage reduction due to 1200 armor: 300 / (300 + 1200) = 0.2 of the damage gets through, or 80% damage reduction If you have 1000 hit points, it takes 5,000 damage to drop you to zero. Or in other words, 5,000 effective hit points. An additional 300 more armor than the 900 case again lets you take another 1,000 damage. Or 2,000 more than the 600 armor case. Every 300 more armor, if you have 1,000 hit points, it lets you take another 1,000 points of damage. Whether ~8,000 effective hit points of a Valkyr with all 3 Umbral mods is sufficient to tank depends on exactly what you're facing. Level 10 starchart? She can sit there all day. Level 200 steel path? Doesn't last too long standing still. Between 700 armor and 2047 armor is a factor of 2.34. So say, 3 seconds expected lifetime becomes 7 seconds, which is noticeable to me. Might not be sufficient for very high level content, but a factor of 2 or more is something I consider as different. If all you care about are factors of 10, then yeah, 700 to 2000 armor isn't going to seem like a difference. Of course, from 0 armor to 600 armor is only a factor of 3 increase in effective hit points. 200% ability strength Warcry + Umbral armor mods is also about a factor of 3 from 600 armor, for around 10 times the effective hit points when compared to 0 armor.
  4. If you've got a million nano spores, why don't you have the focus for the school trees? Are we talking about new players with no resources or veterans here? Why do you need to grind affinity if you're at the point where you have too many resources? In order to get maxed Protective and Sonic Dashes (which is all you need for the above) only takes about 1 million affinity. That is like 4-8 hours in ESO over 4 days with Saryn if you're new and griding. If you're a veteran who's played the game for years, you should have plenty of focus affinity. No Eidolons necessary. Just some lenses (which can be bought with platinum if you choose to not do bounties). I'm also not seeing how choosing Cloud Walker instead of other abilities is different from choosing Vazarin instead of other focus schools. Both have opportunity costs of whatever you didn't choose. Lastly, operator mode is a press of a button, no? The entire game is pressing buttons. Repeatedly pressing 2 on Wukong isn't going to do much by itself. It won't heal you, and certainly doesn't make you fly. You need to press other buttons for that, just like operator form does. I'll also point out Vazarin's 6 seconds of invulnerability allows you to attack as well (along with damage from void dash itself), while Cloud Walker doesn't let you deal damage while using it. Vazarin uses operator's energy and thus recharged for free, ready to do it again in about 8 seconds. If you want a squishy frame with no survival mods at 2 hours into a steel path survival, Vazarin has you covered. Cloud walker, not so much. So given there's an option already far more powerful, able to be put on any frame, I'm not seeing how it breaks the game. Opens up more options yes, but its not letting someone get farther in the game than was already possible with other options.
  5. In regards to 1, I think Vazarin operators already do that for any frame, no? Invincibility. 6 seconds of it for you and allies. Check. Healing. 60% over 6 seconds. Check. Debuffing and CC from Sonic dash (aoe stagger and open to finishers), check. Flying and movement speed. Void dash goes in any direction (including up) and is much faster than walking. Check.
  6. Why are warframes supposed to live and die with their abilities? Is this something DE has stated somewhere? Is this a personal opinion? Is it simply what other games have done before? Why would Warframe have to do what other games do? Isn't it supposed to be different? I mean, if its your opinion, that is fine, but then I personally don't really see anything fundamentally wrong with the addition of ability transferring. I mean, sure implementation is going to determine how well it works out, but the concept is perfectly fine. When you pick the ability, it is not like you can change it mid-mission. Its the same with your weapons, your pet, your focus trees, your gear wheel. It is just one more option. There's nothing sacrosanct about warframes ability sets. Implementation might be good or bad, but simply being able to swap out something for another thing is literally what the entire game is based on. Augments already change the behavior of some abilities. Shock Trooper literally changes shock from a DPS attack to an allied damage buff, which are 2 completely different functions. Arcanes can produce huge changes in effectiveness in both offense and defense. And that is not even just getting into the actual modding of a warframe's base stats like ability power and range. Low range, long duration high power Rhino (Iron Skin + Roar) plays difference from large range, low power, high efficiency (stomp AoE control). Focus trees are literally 50 different abilities which for most people are only going to be using a small subset they have to pick. And I'd argue those focus abilities can have a far greater effect on mission success than many warframe abilities. Vazarin Protective dash with some patience can literally make you permanently invulnerable (along with being repetitive, but it's there if you need it). Zenurik can provide infinite energy. And so on. I would argue replacing a warframe's ability is fundamentally no different from picking a different focus tree to combine with the warframe at mission launch. Different set of magical abilities on the same base chassis.
  7. Pretty sure if you look at the Tennocon reveal video, the UI shows all 4 abilities available to be selected when they were adding shock to Excalibur. The signature and ultimate being not available was in reference to donation only. I recommend going back and watching that section of the video again. I think it was starting around the 32 minute mark of the full Tennocon video. Although, I personally like Exalibur's 4. The follow through being 100% (i.e. 1st target takes 100%, 2nd takes 100%, 3rd takes 100%), and the waves going out 40 meters with infinite punch through, allows for some solid AoE damage with melee style scaling. A polearm for example, might only have 6m radius (with Primed reach - which exalted blade could replace with a damage mod), and hits the 1st target for 100%, 2nd target for 60%, and 3rd target for 36%. Chromatic blade augment allows for that AoE to be 100% chance crowd control as well (heat or radiation for example). Plus the innate double damage from the melee and wave both hitting if you do happen to be at melee distance. In my case, I find it clears Railjack boarding parties or enemy ships much faster than my standard melee because of the punch through going through all the obstacles in the way, and through floors/ceilings/doors. Also, having 2 separately modded melee in a single mission is sometimes handy for dealing with common spam mobs versus boss mobs with alloy armor for example. Was always handy when the Wolf showed up for example. I'd probably replace either the 1 (Slash Dash) or 3 (Radial Javelin) on Umbral Excalibur. The Javelin augment is cute for a +200% multiplied damage bonus (assuming 166% ability strength and 12 or more targets), but radial blind/howl provides stealth bonus damage and opens targets to finishers that anyone on your team can benefit from. Plus its less energy (or free when the AI uses it as its first action when you switch to spoiler mode).
  8. Can you point me to your source of where you're getting this, or is this an assumption you've made? Go watch the Tennocon reveal (easily accessed from Loza03's link) and watch and listen starting at the 32:40 mark. Mag shows which ability you're going to get (Pull). There is no selection there. They go on to verbally state every warframe in the game has had one ability chosen that you can donate.
  9. They have stated very clearly at tennocon that each frame is going to have only one ability that can be donated. That ability is picked by DE. You don't get to pick the ability. You sacrifice Mag, and you get Pull. That is it. There is no roster to choose from. I suppose if they changed their mind in 2 years time and change which ability Mag provides after being sacrificed (which strikes me as unlikely), I would assume they'd remove Pull and give you the new ability. They're not going to leave you with an ability they've removed as an option.
  10. As stated during Tennocon, each frame will provide one pre-determined ability chosen by DE. Mag only provides Pull, Volt only provides Shock. You can't pick other abilities. They simply said that one ability won't be their ultimate or their iconic (using Descrate and Nekros as an example of iconic ability).
  11. You're also forgetting reload time and magazine size. Unless you mean single target DPS against a standard target you can kill in a single magazine of 5 and then don't care about shooting anyone else. Not bosses or hard targets like Wolf or a Kuva Lich, or large swarms of enemies. If it takes you 20 shots to down a boss, for example, the Cornith prime doesn't need to reload, or reloads once, while the Cornith reloads 3-4 times (0-3 seconds versus 6.9 to 9.2 seconds). Lets assume single hard target, long duration fight, so we get averaged reload times. For 20 shots and reload, Cornith prime takes 20/1.42 = 14 second to fire + 3 second reload = 17 seconds. For 20 shots, the Corinth takes 20/1.17 + 4*2.3 = 17 seconds to fire and 9 seconds to reload = 26 seconds. The Corinth Prime does the same damage as a Cornith in only 2/3rds of the time. Or in other words, 52% more DPS single target. 1.05/0.9 = 1.16. So the riven disposition means the Corinth gets 16% larger numbers on a single mod? In terms of AoE damage, I see 404 air burst damage for Corinth, and 2,200 for the Corinth prime? Which is roughly a factor of 5. Or are you not considering AoE DPS? Edit: And I completely left out the 50% higher status chance, which can also lead to higher damage in actual play, from heat, slash, toxin procs, or increasing later hit damage with viral/corrosive procs.
  • Create New...