Nyllith
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Posts posted by Nyllith
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il y a 36 minutes, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit :
How about 10,000+ players' 3 seconds versus your 2 hours? I mean it's not just going to affect a single player but the entire community.
Most BS argument I've seen yet in this thread.
Most people will double check that they indeed have the weapon or not, not every larvling kill is an instant "oh yeah I need that" button press.The time wasted by having a safeguard is minimal (at the very least being able to abort the mission would be great), especially considering personal exprience. The time wasted by accidentaly stabbing a larvling is massive and frustratring.
Should we complain about loading times because of the millions of hours of loading time everyone has to go through. Of course not, because no one cares for a few seconds of delay.
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Gotta love the DE white knights saying everything is on the player. Wasting 3 hours because of muscle memory is beyond stupid, especially considering you can't even exit or Alt+F4 to avoid the mind blowingly boring and useless grind.
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Il y a 17 heures, SortaRandom a dit :
Interesting. Maybe it has to do with whether you were holding "Sprint/Dodge" versus a dedicated "Sprint" button?
This may be the best explanation so far, because I indeed used the combined key, and couldn't change speed on toggle and hold.
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il y a 27 minutes, Arsonistic a dit :
It went both ways. Sprint worked exactly like normal running; you could turn it on and off at will while in Cloud Walker.
Don't want to be that guy, but both of you are remembering wrongly if I may say so. It was a definitive snapshot for the whole duration, you could not change the speed while cloud walker was toggled on.
But whatever, this isn't even important to the whole point of the thread anyway. The nerf sucks and is completly unjustifiable and we can all agree to that.
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Il y a 21 heures, EinheriarJudith a dit :
i tend to agree with you most often monkey. but not here. im one for consistency and to me nothing was lost. i never noticed such a feature playing wukong. then again i dont use cloud walker as some kind of speed skill.
This is one of the most ridiculous argument I have seen in favor of this nerf.
There never was any consistency issue. You could get into fast cloud walker with hold sprint simply by sprinting the moment you toggled cloud walker on.
Cloud walker basically snapshooted your running speed on toggle and kept it that way until you got out of it (you could not slow down by releasing the sprint key once you casted 2, you had to cast it again). And I tested this multiple times because I had to switch to hold sprint to play railjack and forgot to switch back once I was back on Wukong.
Nothing of what you said makes sense. This is just an arbitrary half assed nerf, nothing more (you can still get pre nerf speed by holding crouch during cloud walker, but it's really annoying). The fact you played wukong in a suboptimal way doesn't take away that people have the right to be pissed that wukong lost the one tool that made him unique and valuable in certain situations. If you use cloud walker with the regular 30m/s speed, he's just a mediocre jack of all trades like he used to be before the rework.
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On 2020-01-24 at 12:39 PM, zhellon said:
I don't think you are able to get the infinite flight effect as easily on another frame. I see people complaining, but the only complaint is that they just can't "im sooofast boy" anymore where archwing can be used. Now let's discuss the real game. In narrow corridors, you never abused this mechanics, because objects slowed you down anyway. 90% games are narrow corridors. So I conclude that speed is not a problem. Use Titania if you want, but it also won't give you a big boost to speed if you don't use razorwing blitz, which you just can't use in narrow corridors.
What are you trying to argue for? Wukong was the fastest frame, followed very closely by portal nova. Any other frame than those 2 were not even close speed wise, there is a reason racers banned those 2 specifically.
The reason people loved wukong's 2 is precisely because you could use it in narrow corridors once you got used to the speed, whereas Nova's 3 would most likely send you into a wall, even with shorter range.There is absolutely no reason for the removal of options when it comes to speed for Wukong's cloud walker. Now it's all back to portal nova because she's the only option left for efficiency.
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il y a 13 minutes, Zalabim a dit :
Armament damage bonuses are multiplicative to lavan hyperstrike, and winged storm. I don't expect zetki hyperstrike is any different, but if it is, that makes lavan hyperstrike better for vidar/photor weapons. More likely you just suck at math.
And here you are sucking at math. You're making fundamental, foundational, typographical, just every sort of doing it wrong. The weapon can fire on 0.0, then again at 0.625 or 1.0 depending on fire rate. So 3.125 seconds is 6 shots and 3 seconds is 4 shots. The zetki's base damage is 2939 (now), but vidar is 1959*vidar's bonus. The bonus damage is multiplicative with hyperstrike, so it's easy to see 4 shots with the best vidar does 71.11% of the damage as 6 shots with the best zetki, in this cherrypicked situation where you can't crit and don't have to aim.
Vidar cryophon's critical damage was probably lowered to stop it from dealing more dps than the zetki weapon, which it totally could before. People had already proven that. The rest is just you disagreeing with DE's very clearly stated intentions for weapon balancing. There is no OHKO turret for railjack.
My bad for the first shot which is indeed at 0s, but do you have to come out as such a douchebag dude?
5 shots of zetki is then 2.5 vs 3s for vidar, which still makes it better anyway, both in theory and in practice.
And again, not sure about that multiplicative thing with hyperstrike. DE changed something about the weapon UI with the patch. My zetki is listed as 6495 dmg with 1.6 fire rate whereas my vidar is listed as 6887 dmg with 1.0 fire rate. Something seems off if the only variable changed between those two weapons is the 59.1% dmg roll.
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il y a 5 minutes, Reifnir a dit :
Prove what?
That in one, niche scenario (which, knowing DE will get nerfed, because no fun allowed) the rapidly overheating Zetki Cryo saves you a whooping ONE second of charging a Vortex (because by the 4th shot Vidar will overtake it)? Wow, that totally makes it worth using a gun that is garbage in all scenarios other than shooting a vortex... NOT.
Stop using on-paper math as an excuse, it doesn't work nearly as well in real life scenarios.
If you actually used munitions vortex, you would not call this paper math.
What is exactly a "niche" strategy when it can single handedly take care of whole squads of fighters?
Having 2 or 3 ships escape because you took that 1 more second to shoot is indeed a waste of time. And that's not math, that's what I gathered from testing.
You can squad up with me in game if you wanna pilot my ship with both weapons and test for yourself.
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il y a 32 minutes, 844448 a dit :
Is it really that important to you to do one shot? This one shot "shotgun" is one reason they reduced the damage because people are using it more often than the rest so I wouldn't be surprised and they added more range on it in exchange for reduced damage.
Also, is it really a shotgun? Or just you assuming it's following archetype of a shotgun?
Weakest enemy? If enemy in Veil is the weakest then what is the enemy in earth then?
Do the 3 shots take significantly longer? If no, it's not much of a problem unless you take 3 times longer than before.
It's not that's it's important to me, it is that given the restrictions cryo weapons actually have, it would only make sense for them to one shot garbage fodder enemies at close range.
And yes, it is indeed a shotgun: fires slowly, has greatly reduced effectiveness at mid and high range, has the greatest damage at close range, has a limited number of shots before "reloading". If that's not a shotgun I don't know what is.
And by weakest enemies you know I'm talking about the weakest enemies in the veil. Everything gets trashed by every MK3 weapons on Earth and Saturn.
3 shots take 3 times as long as 1 shot. I would consider that to be quite longer yes.
Regarding the vortex strat, we went from 2 shots to 5 shots, which is quite bad as well.
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il y a 50 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :
But do you have a good predator and crit damage avionic in use when trying?
I already said in this thread that I have all offensive zetki avionics maxed out on maxed out grid. %damage, %crit, %crit damage, and %heat capacity. I have tested this quite seriously, I'm not making things up in my mind !
EDIT: using a 59.1% vidar and a 60% zetki.
BTW, I'm not even sure crit is a valid parameter when a projectile enters the vortex anyway, this might need further testing.
Just to further prove my point:
Right now, to blow up a squad, you need 5 zetki shots. With a perfectly rolled 60% zetki, every shot will take 0.625s. So charging up the vortex will take 3.125s of zetki shots + the sligh delay to activate it.
That is 2939*2.21*5 = 32475.95 damage and almost nothing will survive this
in 3 seconds you can fire 3 vidar shots:
2939*2.81*3 = 24775.77
This is significantly worse eventhough you took 0.1s more with the zetki, and even going for a 4th shot gives you 33034.36, we're talking 2% more overkill damage for almost 33% more time spent shooting.
Plus the fact I'm considering you got a 60% vidar, which is quite hard to get compared to a 59-60 zetki.
That is of course considering projectiles in the vortex don't crit, but I don't think it would change much. Vidar has a higher crit chance, but Zetki also has a higher crit multiplier.
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il y a 4 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :
But that is basing it all on unintended use of buffs.
The actual change for cryo was minimal. Now on live it does better versus the small ship while doing worse versus Flak and up. Zetki may have been better due to an exploit, if that exploit wasnt possible it would be far worse than the vidar.
BiS should never be based on obvious exploits.
That threshold was quite unintentionnal, that's for sure. What I'm saying is that zetki used to be better than vidar, but both weapons with roar actually felt good. Now both are trash for conventionnal use, vidar being marginally better. Zetki is still better for the ammo vortex strat though, I tested both since the patch hit. It is way weaker overall, but zetki still dishes out more DPS because you don't have yet to overheat it to blow up a squad.
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il y a 4 minutes, 844448 a dit :
Is it really trash balance, or not accepting the new balance where you can no longer one shot enemies mindlessly? Does your railjack have the best avionics in boosting damage?
It is trash balance when you use a weapon that follows the archetype of a shotgun, shoot at close range, and can still take up to 3 hits when you don't crit to take out fodder enemies.
My railjack has all offensive zetki avionics maxed out on maxed out grid.
Of course I don't expect something like a carcinox to one shot everything, it's a machine gun.
Would you feel good using a 6 ammo barrel shotgun that you have to fire 3 times to kill the weakest enemy in the game?
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il y a 14 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :
On paper yet, not in reality because it isnt a high rof weapon nor is it fully automatic. It still comes down to manual clicks and the 0.6 difference wont matter in that case to a point where it translates to a comparable dps increase. The damage increase is always there, the RoF increase is more of a placebo effect on such low RoF weapons. Even with munitions vortex the extra speed will have no actual impact on the completion time of the mission, not to a point where giving up significant damage+crit would be beneficial since those two stats benefit you outside the use of munitions vortex aswell as during it. If you crit you've effectively already doubled your damage to reach that 2 shot margin.
As for the "nerf" to Cryo, it also depends highly what you shoot at since the patch. For cutters and takis the damage is the same or slightly better (due to having robotic health), versus Flak it is worse. That is because the armor of the Flak hasnt really changed because the armor was reduced by the same amount as the health increase and in the case of Flak, both health types are alloy, so both health types work as armor, which may be an oversight on DEs part. For outriders it doesnt matter, since weakpoints are always easier to use as takedown methods.
I edited my post because of mistakes, just to be 100% transparent.
Regarding munitions vortex, I've been using this ability to complete a lot of sub 5 minutes runs in public. The main thing that you have to keep in mind that made this strategy so powerful was getting enough damage into the vortex before enemies can spread out once you vectored into them. 60% faster felt way better to use, made the strategy way more consistent. Failing to blow up be it only a single ship can waste quite some time when it happens 3 or 4 times per run.
I'm not saying it made the strategy unusable, but it was worse by quite a metric, there was absolutly no reason to use vidar because nothing survived a 2 shot vortex zetki explosion and 1 shot of vidar cryo was not enough.Regarding rate of fire vs damage and crit, I explained in my previous post why once you one shot everything with roar, crit and damage is just overkill vs rate of fire. And one shotting fodder enemies with the "shotgun" weapon at close range is to be expected IMO, and right now, not even vidar cryo can do it consistently.
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il y a 18 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :
"Dramatic increase" when we talk about the difference of 1.0 and 1.6... OK...
No that is not a dramatic increase except on paper. If we were talking about 10.0 and 16.0, then yeah, that would be a dramatic increase. When you are down at 1.0 or 1.6 speeds the difference is barely noticable. And since we dont have the mod options on RJs that we have on weapons, the additive damage is a significant increase, not to mention the crit stat alone improves the cannon even further beyond the low crit zetki. Cryo is all about the initial damage, the higher damage along with crit serves that purpose far better than a little fire rate.
Honestly not sure what you are doing wrong because the ships I've used have cut the fighters down in near an instant. Maybe you should make sure to wipe out healing bubbles first?
1.00 to 1.60 is 60% raw dps.
121+ 60 (perfect roll) is about 50% raw damage.
Zetki was still better because the ammo vortex strategy basically just required you to shoot 2 times into the vortex. Which made zetki effectively 60% better at this task.
I'm not saying vidar cryo was bad, it was quite a good weapon to use, but zetki was better in almost every case. As I said, zetki was only worse if you consistently overheated it. With rhino's roar, almost nothing survived a close range hit besides exo Outriders. At this point, shooting faster is just more beneficial than doing more overkill.
Completly naked I agree, vidar felt better. But better than trash doesn't mean much to be honest.
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il y a 11 minutes, Forblaze a dit :
It was definitely nerfed. My Vidar Cryophon was able to 1 shot most veil enemies pretty consistently. Now it's taking 2-3.
They cut armor values in half and slashed cryo weapons damage in half. Which results in "nothing changed". the problem is that they also increased health on some ships. And that results in a direct nerf.
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à l’instant, SneakyErvin a dit :
Zetki was already behind Vidar by a large margin for Cryo. It had significantly lower damage aswell as crit plus worse heat management all for the sake of 0.6 higher fire rate i.e 1.6 fire rate instead of 1.0. So no, it was never the highest dps weapon because you rarely made use of that extra 0.6 shot per second. At a 50% damage roll the Vidar comes head due to higher crit, anything beyond that 50% roll just makes it race ahead of the Zetki even further.
Also, I've tried the photor and pulsar since patch, with vidar versions, they melt everything. Photor is smoother to use since it is a constant beam. The new range/fall off makes them insane together with the doubled damage on incendary combined with lower armor on enemies. They are no longer your your short ranged pea shooters, photor is an actual sci-fi lance cannon now.
Weapon damage rolls are additive to zetki hyperstrike, not multiplicative. I used a 59% vidar Cryo for quite some time, I just went back to zetki because the fire rate was such a dramatic increase in damage.
I have well rolled versions of all weapons in vidar and zetki weaponry. I'm glad you like them, but when I tested them, it felt like quite a chore to down even just a little cutter. Cryo weapons actually still feel better than this IMO,
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il y a 3 minutes, xBloodySin a dit :
You provided evidence that you consider being unable to use an exploit is equal to nerfing for you, despite multiple people pointing out the weapons on the own, without borderline exploits, are performing just the same as they did before.
Look, I will explain it to you so you will understand:
Cryo weapons before patch naked = trash
Cryo weapons with roar = good !
Patch hits to make all weapons feel "better"
Cryo weapons feel the same as before naked = still trash.
You get it now?
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il y a 1 minute, SneakyErvin a dit :
It didnt get weaker, it is proportionally the same as before when you account for enemy armor and health changes. It even performs slightly better due to the better fall off stats. Not DEs problem if you went with Zetki crap versions and relied on unintentional use of WF buffs.
What did change however in the patch is that photor and pulsar recieved some very nice buff. Photor probably turned into the number one RJ gun after the patch due to the changes it and incendiairy damage recieved.
Photor = Very hot knife. Fighters = Butter.
You are invited to test out the photor and the pulsar. Those weapons are still hot garbage compared to a carcinnox or an apoc.
And Zekti cryo was not the "garbage" version of the weapon. It was not the most efficient one if you intended to fire for more than 5 shots, but anything below that made it the highest DPS weapon of the game.
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à l’instant, xBloodySin a dit :
Glad you realize that has been you the whole thread. It's a first step.
I provided evidence and presented sane arguments regarding the state of the game. You did nothing but whine because you misinterpreted a sentence of mine. Grow up please.
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il y a 3 minutes, xBloodySin a dit :
That moment when the argument can be summed up with "the borderline exploit I used doesn't work anymore, so it's a nerf!"
That moment when you realize you're in the wrong but still can't admit it. I swear, people looking to argue just for the sake of it rather than contributing to the discussion is quite a breed on these forums.
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il y a 8 minutes, Anthraxicus a dit :
He is half correct. Although DE didn't intend Roar to work with Railjack, the fact of the the matter is that these types of abilities worked. Also, DE stated that they didn't want Railjack to feel trash, which it did. So, their current intention is that Railjack feels powerful as if you were using said abilities, but without having to use these abilities, so you can keep whatever Warframe you want. It seems they've failed yet again to reach an intended goal, kinda like Melee 3.0 all over again.
That's what I meant, thank you.
People used abilities because RJ felt like trash, just watch anybody that actually invested time into this gamemode like Brozime, and you'll get quite a consensus.
Abilities made the game actually fun, because frankly, when I use a shotgun in a game, I expect it to OS things at close range.
Zekti cryo on a fully upgraded ship will be at 99% heat in 5 shots, and overheat on the 6th. How is that okay that a tiny fighter might take half my "barrel" to get down? That's not fun.
If they wanted to make it feel as good as roared turrets felt, then they failed hard, because cryo weapons are just as bad as they were before when you used them naked.
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3 hours ago, xBloodySin said:
They are. The damage numbers might be lower, but the TTK is still the same, they still die in around the same number of hits.
I said they were balanced around rhino's roar being used YESTERDAY (I've been talking about the positive adjustment of other weapons as well, don't misinterpret what I said), as in the patch that just hit. I know weapons were not balanced from the get go around anything, because that's just how DE does things.
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il y a 2 minutes, Jounar54 a dit :
So DE nerfed the weapon and removed the ability for Warframe to effect said weapon?
That makes no sense.
That's exactly what happened for cryo weapons. I'm not saying it's making sense, we're talking DE balance here.
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il y a 1 minute, xBloodySin a dit :
You make your contradiction pretty clear, that's true.
Either they "balanced around" or the fact that combo existed was unintentional - which sets the first one in the "pulled out of your ass" category.
If you can't read that's on you. If the only problem was WF abilities, they would just have removed them and not touched weapons AT ALL.
Don't be stupid and just arguing for the sake of it.
People here are discussing cryo weapons because DE states that they were balanced to remain as powerful as before, and in fact they're not. What don't you understand here exactly?
Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack: Hotfix 29.10.7
in PC Update Notes
Posted · Edited by Nyllith
Different toggle sprint cursors for warframes, archwing and railjack please !!