CaffeineTanuki
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Posts posted by CaffeineTanuki
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1 minute ago, DeltaPangaea said:
Ahaha, thinking that being around for a while will make someone less dumb.
Seriously though, yes making a game is hard and I appreciate the things they do. But I still find it difficult to believe that a toggle for this kind of thing is beyond them in some fashion. Hell, actually what they COULD do is do it like Sprint/Roll. Have separate keybinds. Have a keybind that binds to both light and heavy. Light for taps, heavies for hold, like how we have rolls for tap and sprints for hold.
And can I please have my auto-melee-unequip, come on. Could even do it the same way, with a separate 'quick melee' keybind. Don't even need any toggle options.
First, pretty sure you can re-bind the heavy attack button to something like q, and auto unequip does happen if you just use quick melee instead of holding the switch weapon button. all you have to do is aim or shoot and you pull your gun right back out, no extra effort required.
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Not only have these AoE weapons been nerfed with this whole falloff thing, they've been straight ripped from the meta. Penta and Tonkor used to be very widely used weapons, regulars alongside Soma, Latron Prime, Paris Prime, and Boltor Prime (Rest in peace, Noobcannon). Now they're no more than wall decorations unless you have the forma and mods to get them semi-usable in late game.
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17 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:
Yeah, I find it highly dubious that DE 'can't' make more options. Can't make an auto-unequip option. Can't make a hold-for-heavy option.
DE please. Can you actually NOT do this, when you've jimmied like seven different forms of gameplay into Warframe, or do you just not want to? I mean you built a fighting game for kicks and giggles, how is a few toggles beyond you?
A fighting game with about as much depth as a bowl of soup. Slam attacks straight up don't work, your fighter can just decide to stop attacking sometimes, and the grab is pitiful.
There are some things within the game's infrastructure that are tied to the engine itself. Changing those things on a whim is not something you can easily do.
If DE says they can't do something, they mean it. Stop whining and realize that making an entire game, especially one as deep and complex as Warframe, is hard.
Hell, your account's been active since month 2 of open beta. You should know that anyway.
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9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:
It's also referred to as an argumentum ad populum, but the term used to point it out isn't relevant and doesn't make you appear smarter. You can claim whatever you want about your "500 member clan" saying this or that. I could claim my 1000 member clan all said they want it removed. It's an inherently fallacious argument, and is easily ignored.
Yes, I'm well aware of its other names. I was simply showing that you're using incorrect terminology, as that particular fallacy didn't apply to what I had said. Again, there isn't really much of a popular opinion one way or the other here.
9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:You can already do this. Removing the stagger changes nothing other than removing the control that gets periodically taken from the player.
Control that you can easily keep by not spamming through the combo, counting your attack presses, and stopping at 5 to roll and switch to a gun to take out the stragglers.
9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:Who are these meta slaves and where have they said they would use CW over TR if not for that blasted stagger? Literally where are they?
If you have to ask this question, you clearly haven't played end-game level with people who like efficiency.
9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:No, because it's part of the increased mobility aspect of the block-combos.
And yet, similar to the all-encompassing stagger, control of movement is taken away from you in the same way.
9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:You keep trying to use how long you've played or how many people you think agree with you to prove your case.
I have done so exactly once during this argument, and only as a point of timescale to show that I've seen more of these kinds of changes and balances than you have. Not once did I say that playing for longer made my opinion any more valid, or yours any less.
9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:The animation itself is a holdover from pre-melee 3.0, when you were locked into completing combos
You have always been able to stop mid-combo and reset it. Never in the entire game have you been animation-locked into doing all 7, now 5, spins.
I'll reiterate what Conn1496 has said. It's a learning curve. It's meant to teach players how to use more of their options while they're still getting used to the game. Same thing with other combos with long endlag. Yes, it's a bit in-your-face and obvious, but it's effective. New players are learning this new melee system and having much more fun with it than ever before, thanks to these punishing endings.
I'm finishing this on my side. If I've learned anything from debate it's that you can't argue with someone who doesn't want to listen, which you've proven for yourself.
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8 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:
I've already explained it multiple times. Again, ignoring that is just proof that you want to argue and disagree for the sake of it. But I'll play along once...
- Having a stagger for using a combo too often is annoying because it temporarily removes control from the player. .
- It's inconsistent with the rest of the stance mods in the game which have no such mechanic.
- It's not necessary because the stagger isn't relevant, all it does is hinder the player's movement for a couple seconds, doesn't prevent spamming the ability in any relevant way, and can easily be circumvented by throwing in one separate move.
- Taking control away from the player is the opposite of what DE has claimed they want for melee 3.0.
- If balance were an actual issue (which I don't think it is), there are other ways to balance the stance that don't involve taking control away from the player.
First off: I did not ignore your points. I simply wanted a clear and concise statement for your reasoning of wanting it gone. Thank you for giving me a nice, easy to follow list.
9 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:No one is going to stop playing Warframe if Cleaving Whirlwind's stagger gets removed. Absolutely no one.
Absolutely correct. I never once said it would be an end-all kind of thing, I was simply using examples. DE is trying their hardest to try to avoid any and all loopholes like that, be they small and pointless or massive and game-breaking.
11 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:No it doesn't. You're trying to invalidate the fact that there are hundreds of more effective ways to kill things than using a specific melee weapon stance, which is the point of the comparison. You opened the door for this when you brought up balance and tried to suggest that removing a stagger animation was going to make something OP.
Once again, not once did I say or insinuate that the removal of the stagger would make CW incredibly broken or even remotely OP. What I said is that it would make it boring and mundane, just spamming one attack over the rest and not fully utilizing the fun, dynamic stance that it is, and would make TR an objectively worse stance because of it .
20 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:Beyond that, I'd bet if you could poll every Warframe player, you'd find this to be a popular opinion. The fact that there aren't many people in this one thread who have decided to post in agreement isn't really relevant.
I've presented this whole situation to my guild, about 500 players strong, and almost all said they didn't care.
21 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:I've yet to see an actual reason for why the stagger shouldn't be removed.
And you say that I was ignoring your points? I have given several reasons as to why it doesn't need to be removed. Allow me to reprise:
- DE is trying to make the game more interesting and dynamic. Removing this stagger would do the opposite.
- There is a very easy and trivial way to get around the stagger.
- Removal of the stagger would cause Tempo Royale to become irrelevant for heavy-blades in the eyes of "meta slaves", once again defeating the purpose of making the game more interesting.
28 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:Having a stagger for using a combo too often is annoying because it temporarily removes control from the player.
And having combos that launch you forward for an entire second and with more endlag than the stagger animation isn't?
29 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:It's inconsistent with the rest of the stance mods in the game which have no such mechanic.
Once again, just because CW's is more obvious doesn't mean it doesn't happen in other stances.
42 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:You want to talk about logical fallacies, yet appeal to popularity?
This is called the Bandwagon fallacy, yet there aren't any opinions here to bandwagon with. As stated above, nobody really cares about this. Please read up on fallacies before you attempt to call someone out on them.
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6 hours ago, Bacl said:
The changes in this update were pretty significant, some good like the change to status and damages type and some horrendous ones like the changes on the Arcanes.
The major mistake here is not the change itself but the fact you released it without testing, yes some numbers will always be off but this time you missed the mark by hitting the wrong.postcode here.
At this point in order to reduce outrage and prevent the splitting of the forum warriors is a test server.
Make a public test server like other games does where you throw us the changes, we play around with them, give feedback, you can wven have a pole and see if the community is approving of the changes or not.
With a public test server not only we will have an active role in improving the game but also diminish any outrage since cbanges wont be.coming out of.nowhere we would have a say in them and could prevent any catastrophic mistakes.
That would be a descent compromise and if you listen to feedback you would be buying some major goodwill from us.
Just throwingnthat out there and see if it might stick
I think a lot of people seem to forget that Warframe itself IS the public test server.
Warframe is, after 7 years, STILL in "open beta". The game isn't finished. There will be bugs, weird numbers, and things to be ironed out. That's what this game has always been, and until the day the final major update comes through, that's what it will be.
Also DE does in fact listen to their feedback. In the past, things like this have happened. Stuff was nerfed too hard, things were buffed too much, and people let DE know. After that they changed it. Because of the nature of this game, you have to let them listen to feedback for more than 2 days before getting outraged at some bad call they made. It happens, so try to be civilized about it.
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2 minutes ago, PontifexPrimus1 said:
Universal medallions would like a word with you.
Oh, and how about that for a well-reasoned argument:
The staticor had no self-damage before the nerf and was my go-to weapon since I'm not good at aiming precisely for health-related reasons. Now its charged fire _still_ has a 90% drop-off, and the stagger / flinch radius is _way_ bigger than the actual explosion. The weapon is in its current state unusable for me, and I have little to no alternatives left now that all AoE weapons have been reduced to basically single-target weapons.
It was fun playing, but things like this make me realize that I cannot rely on games remaining friendly to their player base, and that across-the-board nerfs are apparently inevitable.
Yes, the staticor and other AoE weapons are in bad shape, as I said earlier, but for now we just have to keep talking about it. Arguing with me about it here won't help us get our point across.
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2 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:
No they're not. They're both used in missions to kill enemies to varying degrees of efficacy. Same as Warframe abilities. Same as pretty much everything else in this game. The point is that there are a broad range of weapons in every category that perform entirely differently. Some are good. Some are bad. Some are in-between. The idea that CW would be so OP as to invalidate all other stances and remove player choice if they just removed a two-second stagger... is asinine.
My point with that statement was that it had nothing to do with the stagger. Bringing up a gun when we're talking about a sword doesn't help your point. In fact, that's called a logical fallacy, and makes your argument look worse.
Removing it wouldn't get rid of player choice, but it would go against what DE is working for. My entire point this whole time is that, while it wouldn't be the most broken thing ever, it would make the game less interesting. If there's an easy, overly effective option for crowd killing, people jump on it. DE isn't removing the player's choice, the players are simply choosing the boring, easy option. It's a trend that's repeated itself every time something like this has come up.
It's exactly why they nerfed Catchmoon and Status shotguns. Players were using them too much, and the game was getting stale.
12 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:The entire point of melee 3.0 was to make weapons feel more responsive and give more control to players. That's why they simplified the combos in the first place, and implemented things like instant-melee switching, the ability to interrupt combos, and implemented more intuitive controls that allow you to specify whice attacks you want to use based on which buttons you use, as opposed to trying to memorize different combinations of mashing E.
These are words and phrase used by DE in dev streams... and interrupting the player's input by keeping the stagger in CW does the exact opposite of achieving those goals.The end-result they were going for with Melee 3.0 was to make every melee fun. They buffed overall damage so the mid-tiers were useful, added new combos and flashier stances, and gave players more options to utilize melee weapons. Of course they're going to make it harder to rely on a single combo. Doing otherwise would be the exact opposite of what they were going for. They wanted to make melee more fun and inviting to options, not more monotonous and boring.
26 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:It was still a nerf to maiming strike, and got people to stop using it.
That was their goal, yes. It was overused and almost mandatory to have the high DPS needed to clear stuff like Arbitrations. And there are in fact some weapons that can still abuse the absolute hell out of it. It's nowhere near as broken and laughably overpowered as it used to be, but is still able to be used to a large advantage with the right setup.
30 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:But I have a feeling you're only arguing against this to be contrarian, not because you actually care about balance.
Contrarian: Someone who opposes or rejects a popular opinion. This is hardly a popular opinion. So far you and the one other guy who argued with me on this are the only two people I've seen that can't deal with this one tiny detail.
Also, I've been playing this game for 7 years. Balance has always been a good thing, and the game suffers when things are unbalanced. People stop playing, the game gets boring, and you start to get people who exclude players that don't have the specific mod/weapon that fits the meta at the time. Balance is how this game moves forward and evolves.
Now. Let's start over, from your side. If you want to argue this, we're going to do it debate style. I want to hear your reasons for why it should be removed.
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Conclave skins are exclusive to conclave for the same reason the syndicate syandanas are. They're a reward.
Yes, I understand almost nobody plays conclave, but that's because it just isn't worth the time. You can't use anything you get in conclave to help your normal gameplay, and the skins aren't even all that impressive. The only thing I would want from it is the Riv Elite armor, which I already bought with plat. If DE added more relevant rewards to the system, we wouldn't need to ask them to buy the skins with plat.
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I agree with most of this. Tonkor used to be very easy to use and was a solid option for crowd control. Now it's just a single target boom that gives nearby enemies a small friendly tickle.
It should have a bigger radius, a bit less falloff damage, and bouncy grenades. For those who don't want bouncy, give it a mod that makes them explode on-impact, or give it an alt-fire that changes from bounce to on-impact. I miss having my doomsday soda-can launcher.
And even if you don't do any of these DE, please remove the arming distance. With self-damage gone, there's just no point.
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This kind of illogical argument is the stuff DE just ignores.
Yes, grenade weapons are a bit sad right now, and have been for a good long while. They're supposed to be fun and high damage, but for now we have to let DE do what they do best: listen. Give them a REAL reason for the change. List arguments and reasons, not just "I want this to be more powerful."
Getting mad at them won't make them listen, you gotta be patient. It's not easy to make a massively successful MMO shooter, you know?
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1 minute ago, HomicidalGrouse said:
I can absolutely say that because they haven't bothered to do it with literally anything but CW and the nerf to maiming strike, which was only really broken because it allowed you to hit through walls, which justified the change. Every other stance is just as "braindead".
Maiming Strike allowed for no such thing. That was simply map walls being weird.
They DID nerf spin-to-win in a few other places, and have been doing so since long before you started playing. A very long time ago, spin attacks would also give a massive movement burst, and was basically the only thing people did for a while.
The Telos Boltace used to be able to use their AoE attack every time you used spin attack, and was promtly changed to nerf the ever-loving S#&$ out of using them for spin-to-win.
5 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:And? One weapon does more damage than another weapon. Welcome to Warframe.
Exactly my point. They kept the stagger so it's more balanced and people use different weapons based off what they want. The entire point of Melee 3.0 was to diversify the playing field of melee weapons.
6 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:This doesn't justify imposing a movement penalty upon the player for using a certain move too often. I can wipe an entire map of enemies with Saryn faster than any stance on any melee mod. Why isn't there a penalty there?
Is there a drawback to using Nezha's Divine Spears for map-wide enemy clear? No. Is there a drawback to using Trinity's Blessing? No. How about Rhino's Iron Skin? Nope, no drawback here either.
Warframe abilities aren't meant to have drawbacks. They're balanced entirely on the player and how they build the Warframe. Getting that amount of power requires sacrifice in other places, be it health armor and shields, or range/efficiency/duration. They balance themselves.
9 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:Hell, up until recently, everyone was just using Catchmoon. It wasn't because Cleaving Whirlwind had a stagger, it was because Catchmoon was OP as hell.
Comparing a melee weapon to a kitgun isn't a valid argument. They do entirely separate things, and are used in completely different situations. They're completely unrelated and cannot be logically compared. That would be like comparing a refrigerator to a car.
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4 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:
One of the points of melee 2.0 was to give more control over your combos and movement to the player. I can move and spam attack with literally every single stance in the game... EXCEPT for Cleaving Whirlwind... for no reason at all. None of what you said justifies it. It's a nuisance imposed upon the player, and it's exclusive to CW for no reason.
I don't think you can say that DE wanting to tone down brain-dead combos is unjustified reason. Look at what they did to Ember and Banshee, for instance.
As for the why, it was made as a balance when Broken Bull had a damage increase and 7 spins. It may not have justified it to you, but there are reasons for it.
10 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:And it really doesn't matter what the animations are. Gleaming Talon and Vermillion Storm can both output massive damage. I actually noticed this while spinning to win with Vermillion on Garuda's Talons. Spinning like crazy and slicing everything to bits with absolutely nothing hindering my movement.
As a whole, heavy blades using Cleaving Whirlwind's forward combo will kill faster and more effectively than claws with Vermilion Storm and glaives with Gleaming Talon. Using the spin-to-win attacks has always been something DE wanted to keep under control. They simply don't have a reason to give those two combo's a drawback because they just can't match the damage output of Cleaving Whirlwind. Yes, Garuda's Talons can rip through crowds at breakneck speeds, but with a Gram Prime you could to the same in about half the time, and that's without a riven.
12 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:I don't like Temp Royale's combos, which is why I use Cleaving Whirlwind. This stagger effect isn't enough to make me not use it. It just makes absolutely no sense that it's literally the only stance in the game that interrupts your combo for using it too often. There's no other stance that does that, and you can spam all of the others with impunity.
Tempo Royale DOES have drawbacks. If you don't kill enemies with your first combo, they will be suspended mid-air and most likely fly away because of the physics of heavy blades and the fact that almost every Tempo Royale combo has a hit that suspends enemies. Just because Cleaving Whirlwind is the only one with a stagger doesn't mean there aren't drawbacks to other stances.
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18 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:
Or if you can use Tempo Royale since it's arguably a better stance.
The argument of TR vs. CW has been going on forever, and I believe that now more than ever it truly doesn't matter. Both can do massive damage, and it's really up to personal preference with the current state of the stances.
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3 minutes ago, Genitive said:
Besides, using a macro in any scenario is a risk of a ban, so there's that.
Where the hell is that stated? People, myself included, have been using macros for years for certain actions like slide attacks and bullet jumps. I've used one for turbo-fire melee attacks when I made a Dual Keres build that attacked at the speed of light. Nowhere in the rules of Warframe is it stated that all macros are bannable, just the ones that completely automate the game.
6 minutes ago, Genitive said:There are numerous stances with spinning attacks. It is true that none of them has continuous spins, but none of them has long combo interrupts either.
Also, Cleaving Whirlwind's stagger isn't even long enough to interrupt your combo counter if you have a single maxed combo duration mod on. While I do agree that the F-B combo is much more powerful, it also requires aiming and timing, and is more or less a single-target attack.
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The entire reason they have that stagger is so people can't just slap melee attack on a macro with a heavy blade and AFK. The entire point of it is to force players to be engaged, and as a balance point for Cleaving Whirlwind itself. Taking that away would not only allow people to just be braindead (something DE has been trying to avoid/fix for years) but would also entirely invalidate Tempo Royale as a stance because of the huge DPS disparity it would create.
When you talk about removing a hindrance on a stance, you have to look at the big picture, not just something you get mildly annoyed at because you can't AFK with it.
As for your "proof" of other stances, neither Gleaming Talon nor Vermilion Storm have non-stop spins like Cleaving Whirlwind. The damage output of those two "spins" are very limited because they don't go on forever like your dream version of Cleaving Whirlwind would.
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For the longest time I have been bothered by this. Most of the polearm weapons are just fine in the way they swing, the blade matching the direction of the attack, but there are 3 of these weapons, plus any polearm zaws, that don't.
Cassowar, Lesion, and Serro.
All three of these weapons swing sideways (just like my zaw in this picture, compared to the orthos prime on the same animation below) and the cassowar is even held backwards!
Please, DE, fix these animations. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed, and I'm probably not the only one bothered by it. It just looks sloppy and, with all of the animation and graphics work you guys are doing right now, I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.
Hope this can get resolved.
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PLEASE! I'm sick of losing all my gladiator/blood rush bonuses on fast crit-based melee like Dual Keres!
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Back before any of this status vs crit meta nonsense, Dread was actually a very widely used weapon. If you got one then you had a nice solid single target weapon, perfect for assassinations. But now that all these crit mods have come out, like munitions, argon scope, and bladed rounds, Dread has fallen to the wayside to weapons like Rubico Prime and Vectis Prime, and even the Daikyu ever since its recent buff.
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So this isn't supposed to look like that. the blade is facing the wrong way, and i've noticed this problem with the cassowar as well. Can we get an animation fix for this?
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wow this thread blew up XD
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7 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:
It would be great if Tonkor’s base damage type wasn’t Blast. It would certainly bolster its damage just a slight bit higher.
it wouldn't really make sense if it were changed. Blast is an explosion, and the Tonkor is a normal grenade launcher. no fancy elements, no unique tidbits, just a normal grenade launcher.
if anything, its crit multiplier or crit chance would be the ideal thing to buff, as it has the highest base damage of all the grenade launcher weapons.
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17 minutes ago, Biotic_Prototype_6 said:
She needs a buff, desperately. Disruption is like THE game mode for frames that do a lot of damage to shine, and she is again at the bottom. It's clear she isn't fine as it is.
Simply not true. She's not meant to be soley damage, and provides quite useful buffs for her allies in the form of Dust and Entangle, and her damage isn't anything to sneeze at. My Dex Pixia build has an output of about 5k per shot with radiation and viral as a setup, and saying her Diwata doesn't count is wrong as well. With a proper crit / condition overload build it can very easily hold its own in higher levels. And with the coming change to her Thorns buff, she won't be as squishy, not that she ever was when properly built.
Also, there is no single place for every frame to shine. Some frames are just not suited to Disruption, like Ash, Ivara, or Loki. Even some damage frames like Equinox can't compete there because of the constant nullification pulse that the demolition units produce.
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8 hours ago, Ikusias said:
I fear that lantern and spellbind problems stem from some problem in the physics engine of the game, recently any form of slam, impact or explosion tends to fling enemyes and yourself into the stratosphere
i've never seen players be launched. how did you do that?
Were the Basmu and Shedu designed for a different meta?
in Weapons
Posted
I agree that the reward weapons should be better, Hell, just look at the Paracesis. Still arguably the best non-zaw heavy weapon possible. And the Broken War is still just as good as it used to be, it just got overshadowed by the meta. These weapons should be special, with completely unique characteristics and able to be used through the whole game as a reliable setup. They shouldn't be the best, but they also shouldn't be completely outclassed like they are right now.