HeavyFarms
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Posts posted by HeavyFarms
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17 hours ago, Zakkhar said:
You may have misuderstood. It was never advertised as that. And the loot tables make it impossible.
Deep Archimedea | WARFRAME Wiki | Fandom
You can use them or sell them.
that's great.
I wanted archon shards. You can't purchase or trade those. I have multiple ways to get arcanes. I have limited ways to get archon shards.8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:I would too if we werent able to reach orange crits as easily as we do, and if influence didnt exsists which practically lets us hit multiple enemies several times over without any limit on our crit stat.
that melee arcane should just double hit any crit tbh.
no other arcane for primaries or secondaries hampers itself like that. -
2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:
Your time will come. be patient.
Its the third deep archimedea i've done.
The rewards feel underwhelming when I put effort into using the garbage weapons i'm limited too. -
I literally would prefer a system like void relics where each person gets an assigned reward, and we can pick the bloody ones we want.
I wanted archon shards, and haven't gotten one from deep archimedea yet. -
On 2024-05-07 at 11:12 AM, zThulsaDoomz said:
"Robbed with a nerf" is one helluva reach ngl
And your argument about "higher I.Q" is also baffling. They're literally weapons designed to be played with your brain turned off.
Everything in warframe can be played with your brain off.
Like Diablo or the looter shooters before it (Borderlands 2) being able to mass clear mobs is something of an "end goal" of power. Norfleet or Conference Call.19 hours ago, zThulsaDoomz said:A lot of other games also do not give compensation for nerfs.
And while we're on the topic, why do you feel you need compensation for a balance change?
Because people invested in those weapons.
You dump 6 forma in a weapon, and have it be nerfed into the ground, you'd want your forma back.
In Helldivers 2, a lot of nerfs they have to warbonds make me want a refund on the medals I spent on the weapon. Any game where your investment is nerfed beyond your control and no longer fun or desired, its natural you'd want.... a refund.
Please use "higher I.Q." and channel the power called "Common Sense." Don't be a jerk about these things.19 hours ago, zThulsaDoomz said:This generation of society is something else.
No. You are just being obtuse. If you bought a car because it performed well, for the manufactures of the vehicle to do maintenance on it and make it worse in every regard; You would refund or sue.
The attitude of people like you is truly something else. It comes off like a false elitesm that just makes you look insecure. -
On 2024-05-07 at 3:37 AM, RichardKam said:
The only downside is you have to charge it.
Not really...
Its a bow. Charge comes as part of its weapon type. You can rapid fire it better than most other bows. I like the nataruk even better than the bramma. (it has better range) -
On 2024-04-29 at 8:52 AM, Slayer-. said:
Your posts are now just a condescending pile of trash talk, I did read the thread and the ammo change was the best thing to happen to the Bramma to curb the spam.
On 2024-05-01 at 7:47 AM, Slayer-. said:Or at least half of what it had would go a long way to helping out weapons caught up in the bramma nerf, they targeted the Bramma but others suffered along the way.
You can either have enjoyable weapons, or all fun dies along the way.
Pick one.
I'm all for helping out all weapons. Undo all the ammo nerfs. Or give me the arcanes that buff ammo so I can unnerf it myself.
Or none of us get to have fun with the weapons we want to enjoy.-
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On 2024-05-03 at 6:04 AM, Lord_Chibi said:
Don't forget dispensary, energized munitions, or the so called "useless" temporal anchor aka a literal save state for your ammo, shield pool, and energy.
Sorry but people want weapons to be functional without builing your entire kit around them, when you could be far more powerful just using any other weapon that wasn't overnerfed.
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15 hours ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:
out of curiosity and possibly completly unrelated. . .
does anyone have any idea why the Nataruk is such a popular AoE bow compared to the others? aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .
any guesses perhaps?
Nataruk is just amazing all around. Its infinite ammo is just icing on the cake.
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On 2024-04-29 at 9:08 PM, xcrimsonlegendx said:
I just want them to un-nerf the ammo for the proboscis cernos. That thing didn't deserve to be pummeled with the nerf bat in terms of ammo.
Honestly, I'd be happy if they gave Primary Merciless its Ammo reserve passive back.
At least you'd have some way of weapons having useable ammo.
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19 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:
I know lore is not immutable, but under the current lore that's a hard "no"
Kuva Scepters are badges of office for Orokin that cause the empire's citizens to obey them. The Grineer Queens were the Queens because they found the last one, the only one, it marked them as the last of the Orokin
Giving new ones to the Liches kinda undoes the only reason it was special
Im going to introduce you to War and Broken War.
What is broken, can be fixed. We just turned it into a melee weapon instead of ordering people around.
Perhaps Lichs give you the blueprint on death so you can repair it using the broken scepter instead of a normal kuva weapon.-
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3 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:
Hey Buddy.
You had your mind made up before this thread ever started. Be honest and have the guts to be truthful about it. Even if you disagree with me.
/You're out.
Oh, and it wasn't hard to find things to compare it to. Its called thinking.-
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20 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:
I don't need to think the Bramma was bad how it was used originally anyone could get it at any MR
And these days you need a railjack to actually get a Bramma.
22 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:the Acceltra is nearly as bad with its ammo running out even with ammo mods.
Nope!
Rifle ammo is more common, and gives more ammo. Acceltra can easily destroy adds, build merciless stacks and easily keep ammo up as it 1-2 shots enemies.23 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:Yeah reinstate self-damage
You really want to reinstate self damage? That means I could proc radiation on myself, toss some castanas and you and show you that friendly fire, Isnt.
Self damage never stopped anyone from using the bramma btw. If it had stopped them, you wouldn't be complaining about it.24 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:The Acceltra doesn't get full power unless you're a set distance from the target.
Oh no. My acceltra won't self stagger me. It won't self damage me either. Oh no.
What ever will I do? Oh? Just mow down everything? I already do that now.
Get a clue buddy. Bramma isn't the powerhouse it used to be. Any newb with a regular acceltra can compete with a bramma. Even if you gave it ammo to make it playable.-
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22 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:
Jat Kittag would be neat too - but I guess it'd be another hammer :/
I'd take it. I'd love a Kuva Jat Kittag. I occasionally want to use my old kittag till I remember how terrible its stats are these days.
22 hours ago, LittleLeoniePrime said:Maybe a Queens Scepter as a Kuva counter part to the Broken Scepter idk just spitballing here...
You mean like War as a counterpart to Broken War?
Actually a great idea. 11/10 idea. Would totally beat up Grineer for the irony alone.-
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On 2024-04-24 at 1:09 AM, Slayer-. said:
Get real those weapons are not even comparable in the first place.
answer is still
They are comparable the second anyone actually takes a moment to think.
Now, Take the moment to actually think. Turn the Bramma into an automatic gun? Its the Acceltra. Turn the Acceltra into a bow? Its the Bramma.
They basically have the same crit chance at base. 1% Difference. 34% vs 35% Acceltra has higher critical damage while Bramma has higher base damage.
They are so similar in fact that when I go to check what the Meta is for these weapons, the builds are 1 mod different.
What's their burst dps? Oh, almost exactly the same. Just about 95k each.
Get real. These weapons fill the same purpose, are built the same way and do the same thing.
One has 5 shots and bullies newbs, the other is fully automatic and will likely have already destroyed everything the Bramma was aiming at, before the Bramma ever fired. (Almost like the yearly power creep has already power crept the Bramma.
Seriusly. People are asking for its Ammo back so the weapon is actually fun to use. It still wouldn't beat the Acceltra, or kill mobs as fast as the acceltra. Gun go brrrr-
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On 2024-04-22 at 7:37 PM, hviewerh said:
I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy, but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).
Chroma doesn't even need it. He can just buff himself with melee and ranged kills now.
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On 2024-04-21 at 7:50 AM, Slayer-. said:
NO!
Yes.
Acceltra Prime already does what the Bramma does, exist fully automatic with a faster fire rate.
No reason for the Bramma to be unusable when its already been power crept-
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On 2024-04-18 at 5:29 PM, Mr.Holyroller said:
I prefer reworks.
Especially how some people have been freaking out when new frames come out.
Trinity really needs some love.
They murdered her because of self-damage, removed self-damage, then forgot to dig her back upI agree.
Personally I'd love for Well of life & Energy Vamp to be merged or combined and a new ability added to Trinity's kit. (Who uses Well of Life when you have blessing?)
Nyx and Trinity are my top picks for reworks. -
1 hour ago, SteveCutler said:
Efficiency mods? Ember's Exothermic augment? I play Ember often and she certainly doesn't need Nourish. I like Gloom on her personally, and that adds even more energy drain yet I still have no issues.
Against level 200 enemies, exothermic doesn't cut it for me. She really needs that high damage reduction otherwise she gets shredded. I could build her a pure tank, and toss adaptation on her, but then no real point using any of her abilities as they take too long to kill anything.
I really like gloom on both Nidus and Garuda. Garuda is one of my favorites now with how well it works with her. -
3 hours ago, MarakViri said:
Again, welcome to the conversation? I have said this in almost every single post when you quote it, so I don't see why you keep mentioning it
If you had a brain, you could figure it out.
Augments exist to make an ability better. If something is worthless, or useless, it shouldn't exist. Eclipse should be in a state where its actually useful to consider "Hey should I extend these buffs to my team?"
If total eclipse is something you would consider on normal mirage, its something you should be able to consider when you use it on helminth.3 hours ago, MarakViri said:So, do I think anyone is going to sacrifice a mod slot for [Total Eclipse] in order to give their team a 45% weapon buff? Maybe. Especially since Roar is far more prevalent,
Uh no.
Eclipse got nerfed into the ground because its was the more popular ability. Again, read patch notes. Keep up.
No. People aren't going to run eclipse for a 15% increase to lose 30% to ability damage.3 hours ago, MarakViri said:(you technically say "Play however you want. But realize that how you play, isn't how others play",
Because functionally killing an ability, effects how other people play. You just aren't smart enough to take the hint. No matter how many people you argue with.
(Take a hint.)3 hours ago, MarakViri said:You know, this little bit here? But, of course, it's not your magic 90% of damage regarding the ability damage output of Saryn, but given that you* are arguing from the perspective of giving Roar every advantage, and Eclipse no advantage, I can't say I'm surprised.
When I have to comb through every large paragraph you post, I tend to skim through things.
Here's the logical fallacy for you. I don't want to give either ability an advantage. People used Eclipse more often, and that's why it first got nerfed to 150% in helminth. Even with giving Eclipse 90% weapon damage, its still being nerfed harder than Rhino Roar. Roar has the advantage in the argument because it does more than just weapon damage. Its dishonest to go "Weapon damage is the only thing that matters" when there's more to consider.
I don't just look at one aspect of an ability. I want both abilities to be good. I'm not going to just focus on Roar's weapon damage and be like "Yeah. that's the only factor to consider".3 hours ago, MarakViri said:You quote me out of context. From a response of you claiming I do not use my brain.
Because you don't. I have to repeat and rephrase the same thing to get the point across. For example:
3 hours ago, MarakViri said:Yes, it's not that much of a trade-off, because most people don't sacrifice their best mod when needing to "sacrifice" a mod slot.
Mod slots are so important, there are 3 whole items in the game dedicated to getting the most out of them. Forma/Umbra Forma, Reactor for more capacity as well as an exilus adapter.
There's a reason why people want augments in exilus slots, cause it would literally let them have more build power and freedom with their builds. (Especially with frames that are just better with their augments.)3 hours ago, MarakViri said:No, I am not thinking from an exclusively Solo-Player perspective.
Unfortunately, this isn't true.
Otherwise, you'd try to make total eclipse usable as an augment choice for team play. It exists. Its possible. Just not if you have any say about it.3 hours ago, MarakViri said:Roar gives better overall results, yes. When did I say it didn't do this? You keep trying to strawman me
Not a strawman. Its your lack of comprehension.
Jack of all trades buff vs singular focused ability. I can't explain it any simpler than I've already attempted. Let's see if you had any luck understanding an example I gave to you so you have any clue what I'm talking about.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:So, yes, the surgeon is better than the general practitioner. But I'm probably not going to go to the surgeon for a headache.
I'm not a surgeon could salvage your missing brain cells.
The General Practioner is rhino roar. He helps with anything. He's got a wide and broad scopre that he can treat for you. A surgeon is Eclipse. Its a singular focused pursuit that is more practiced, more specialized and hence massively more helpful in that one singular category.
This is jack of all trades vs specialized. The incentive is so both abilities have an appeal so you'll regularly find teams with both. (Cause I'd really enjoy having both buffs at the same time for the whole team, and not have one too nerfed to ever be seen again.)
Hospitals have both doctors. Eclipse was the more popular option, till DE swung for its kneecaps at its regularly scheduled popularity nerf.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:Rhino himself doesn't really benefit from Roar. Why? Because it is his Support ability. It is intended for Support of your team more than Rhino himself, unlike Eclipse, which is intended to assist solely Mirage. They are, by their very nature, in-equal. DE tried to equalise them solely based on numerical matching, and failed.
The word you are looking for is unequal.
And the abilities don't need to be equal for both to be good. They are tools for different jobs. That's why I propose making Eclipse stronger than you'd like. Cause regardless if Eclipse is 200% weapon damage, 150% weapon damage, 120% weapon damage or 90% weapon damage, I'm going to use roar when I want increased ability damage. (Not many other abilities buff ability damage. Likewise, Eclipse is one of the only pure weapon damage buffs in the game. And I don't like nerfing things because its popular.
If weapons were people, DE would unalive a man if it got too popular.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:DE was very clearly trying to weaken the ability, even when compared to Roar.
Nope. De was trying to specifically make helminth eclipse weaker. Normal eclipse hasn't been touched. This isn't an issue of eclipse being too strong. Its an issue of it being too popular. That's why they nerfed it with the new lightning system.
I am fine with some nerfs. I am not fine nerfing it into 1/3rd of what it used to be. Eclipse has some use now because of its 75% damage reduction and for that alone I've considered putting it on frames like ember. (I really, really, really hate how her fire armor works. Seriously, I would literally put defense eclipse over immolation so I'm not juggling a heat gauge.)
4 hours ago, MarakViri said:Would I pick additional weapon damage at the cost of losing ability damage?
And losing value isn't a winning strategy. You don't spend 30$ just to gain 15$ elsewhere.
Some warframes don't mind losing ability damage. That's Eclipse's time to shine. That's where you should want it. Like a Banshee with Sonar and Eclipse.
Not sure you know anything about Lavos. He's getting a new augment that gives weapons 200% elemental damage. I would love to see how incredible that would be with eclipse.
(An Idea I'll try later whenever they buff eclipse.)4 hours ago, MarakViri said:Ahhh. I see. You made no mention of Spores, hence my confusion. Thankyou for the clarification.
In my original post, I said something like "Miasma can do however so and so damage" Meaning I was using its full damage potential at base 100% power strength.
4 hours ago, MarakViri said:Amazing how you go to "let people play how they want to play" from "you don't belong here"
Because you aren't considering how others want to play. Only how you want to play.
If you let others play how they want to play, any of the few dozen people that have disagreed with you might have actually convinced you to have fun.
An ability being too strong can still be fun in a PvE game. We are still fighting enemies with millions of health. An ability being too weak, is actively detrimental to people who want to use that ability.
I've already compromised on nerfing Eclipse 3x from what it is normally on Mirage. Not 200%, nor 150% but something resembling usable below that.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:But yes, devolve back to insults. Honestly, they'd be far more impactful if they weren't based on your own ego and desires.
I don't have ego. My own desire is to have an ability strong enough that the majority of the playerbase still want to use it.
I've given you math on numbers that shows Eclipse can have damage multipliers higher than what you'd first want.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:And trying to make a weapon buff equal the DPS of Roar on those frames is obscenely ridiculous, because that is quite literally an advantage it has always
And yet, I'm not arguing for eclipse to 4x roar like it normally is. Like I said. Pretend we agree 80% is close enough. That means roar got nerfed to 3/5ths of its original ability. 80% would be 1/4th of eclipse normally.
4 hours ago, MarakViri said:but that would require you to, you know, argue with validity instead of absurdism.
I mean, you only ever looked at Eclipse and Roar when it comes to weapon balance.
I argued validity by showing you "Hey, Roar adds 1k damage on abilities alone."
The reason you moved on past 45% is because I made valid arguments on one ability adding damage that you never considered. This is because I want both options to appeal to people. If people want a mix of weapons and abilities, a roar can give a serious damage boost to stuff like spores, miasma, maybe even octavia's mallet.
But on frames like Nova to have player choice/preferrence be an actual choice. Do you go eclipse for the combo with molecular prime and have damage reduction? Or do you go for roar to boost everyone's weapon damage, and increase damage of enemies exploding?
Im 80% certain frames like Mesa, Excal, Titania would prefer Eclipse over roar just from their exalted weapons.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:I still think that 90% is unlikely,
I honestly don't expect things to get buffed. DE rarely finds that sweet spot of "Just right" when it comes to balancing things.
I'm hoping for anything 60% or higher.4 hours ago, MarakViri said:The ability has been changed. Accept it. Argue your reasoning why it should be reverted. You're doing that (albeit with far too many insults and ego).
Use your brain and consider all the comparisons on an ability. Solo ability vs team buff ability. Other aspects of an ability make trade offs. If you have two similar buffs, but one is better in 90% of cases, people are just going to use the general option.
If I had plat for every time you brought up quadratic scaling, I could buy Dante. If I had plat for every time I had to repeat myself for you to get the concept of different tools for different purposes, I could buy the Dante collection.
And I don't have to accept anything. If Eclipse is unusable in helminth, I'll just play normal 200% eclipse on mirage. Give something else for DE to nerf from popularity. -
On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:
This seems to be something we both believe true of the other.
What you believe or think is irrelevant. You don't have reasoning behind your thoughts, only they substanceless thoughts alone.
Like I said, nobody is going to use total eclipse for a 30% weapon damage buff. You think anyone is going to sacrifice a mod slot for total eclipse to buff their team for 45%? 90% is the only way that ability is going to have any kind of use.
But you can't admit you are wrong. Eclipse could be buffed to 45%, its usage could be basically 0 and with nobody using it, would you have the honesty to admit you are wrong?
We both know the answer is no.On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:Still seems a bit excessive to devolve into insults
I call a spade a spade.
Act like a spade, look like a spade, get called a spade. Its really not all that surprising.
Cause and effect. Do I have to explain everything to you?On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:but perhaps that's simply my lacking of understanding as to "brevity" being the source of wit
The quote is "Brevity is the soul of wit."
Intelligence lets you explain something simply. It also lets you get basic facts right, without being corrected constantly.On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:... Okay, so you are doubling the ranges off the bat.
That's the total distance the abilities reach. 15 meter radius is how much in diamter? 15x2 =? I guess I have to take back what I said about you understand math.
On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:My question would then have to be "why would you sacrifice that mod".
Because #1 You said losing a mod slot wasn't "That much of a trade off". This is incorrect. Mods are the backbone to 90% of the games power.
Because your statement is false, I am pointing it out to you, at your displeasure. #2 Total Eclipse was worth that sacrifice at one point. Again, you only think of things in a solo player perspective. As you saw from Roar, a team wide buff gives better overall results then a pure selfish mindset.
On Mirage, you could very easily take a small hit to your personal damage, to the overall benefit of the whole team. And as I keep repeating myself, there's simply not enough of a positive trade off.
Would you pick 15% more weapon damage, over losing 30% ability damage? The answer is no. That's why your suggestion of 45% weapon damage is so pathetically meager, nobody would ever run it.
30% on an Ash is 600 true damage on bladestorm plus bleed procs. 30% on Saryn is an extra 1k Miasma?On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:We are, as I've stated before, simply in disagreement over how powerful Eclipse should be in comparison to Roar. You want it to be, hands down, the better weapon buff,
Yup. Because that's the entire point of the ability. There's a reason why normal Eclipse scales better on weapons than Roar. To be hands down the better weapon buff. But wait, that wasn't enough was it? Normal Mirage does more than just scale better than Rhino. Its a numerically 4x increase over Rhino roar.
So wait? Not only does the normal ability scale better, but it does so by 150% more? Its almost like just scaling eclipse better wasnt enough.
If you had any grasp of logic, any vague concept of it; your argument against helminth eclipse would make sense in context of normal mirage vs rhino.
You aren't witty enough to make an argument that makes sense.
If you have two doctors, one being a general practitioner, the other being a very specialized surgeon, the surgeon is going to exceed 2-3x the ability of the general doctor in his specialized area.
And Rhino is designed as a jack of all trades frame. 2 of Mirage's ability specifically built around weapon damage. Its clearly buit as a focus for her. That's her specialty. You can build her to specialize in CC with her other abilities, or you can make something with explosive ledgerman, but half of her kit revolves around getting the most of her weapons.
Rhino has 1 movement ability. 1 tank ability. 1 support ability. 1 CC ability.
Rhino is jack of all trades. Mirage is the master of one.On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:True! Mirage isn't a support frame.
On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:"Roar was always designed to be one size fits all buff" ... well, no, but also yes.
Let me fix that for you. What you should have said was "Yes, and you're right."
But you can't suprass your own ego.
Rhino Roar always buffed weapons and abilities. So as Rhino got updated, they kept his roar as the jack of all trades ability. When Mirage was made, they specifically built her buff to be stronger, different, and hands down the better weapon buff ability.
Strange how that works.On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:Miasma math could I have a breakdown, because I'm not entirely sure how you got those numbers.
Its really simple.
Miasma does 600 damage a second with spores. It lasts 6 seconds. 3,600 damage. Roar at 30% increases that to 780. 4,680 damage. That's a damage increase of 1,080. Not including Spores. (Although I should include spores, because 30% more damage on your ability that grows stronger over time.
On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:It depends on how you choose to build the frame. My Roar-Saryn, for example, has it subsumed in place of Miasma. Is this the most optimal for the meta? Probably not. Do I enjoy the build far more? Absolutely. And to me, when I am playing a game, my own enjoyment has a far higher value than straight statistical performance potential.
Which is why you don't belong here.
Great. Play however you want. But realize that how you play, isn't how others play. People aren't going to enjoy or notice an ability unless it is significant. So while you enjoy how you play, let others enjoy how they play.
Cause nobody is enjoying eclipse right now. Nobody would enjoy it even with your suggestion. An extra 15% is going to be a drop of water in a desert.On 2024-03-28 at 10:33 AM, MarakViri said:Well no, you have proven that you aren't willing to listen to any argument I make.
Because you haven't made a good argument yet.
Like I said, Roar is a weapon damage buff, an ability buff, a companion buff and a team aoe buff.
Even if you just run weapons and abilities, +15% weapon damage over roar isn't worth losing 30% ability damage. Let alone companion or team damage.
+30% weapon damage more than roar for losing 30% ability damage is just cutting even. 30% up for 30% down. Most corrupted mods outside fleeting expertise give you a more enticing trade off. A bigger upside for the downside.
+60% weapon damage more than roar (My beloved 90%) is the only value I'd go "It's worth running this instead of roar."
I'd rather just go Mirage at this point. Toss any other helminth onto her if I wanted eclipse, cause I'd honestly just prefer a full refund on my resources and warframe I put into helminth.-
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On 2024-03-28 at 4:28 PM, TriadHero117 said:
A single ability shouldn't do multiple things better than the individual alternatives at once.
Then buff or provide alternate options.
Gyre had an energy replenshing ability. There was one tool for the job, and they nerfed the one tool instead of providing any other options.
Honestly, Zenurik's old passive of becoming a permanent energy gain should make a reappearance. Just to have more build diversity if they dont add any other options.-
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8 hours ago, PrimedLaundrySauce said:
builds like that are still incredibly uncommon since more people would just rather use roar and not have to worry about swapping loadouts each time they face a new faction
You'd just use roar anyway. Why not boost your warframe abilities too while you are at it.
My friend runs Nova and Roar. Guess no reason not to at this point.-
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1 hour ago, MarakViri said:
Because, despite what you seem to believe, discussions on a public forum aren't meant to be competitive.
You said you wanted a battle of wit. You already lost. Brevity is the soul of wit.
1 hour ago, MarakViri said:And, this is debatable. My logic and reasoning do, in fact,
are entirely opinionated and incapable of listening to others.
In fact, self awareness would be incredibly helpful to yourself. Please look into it.1 hour ago, MarakViri said:Ah, so having a different opinion than you is pretentiousness?
Nope. The way you talked down to others is pretentious. After seeing how interact with others, is how I formed my currently very low opinion of you.
1 hour ago, MarakViri said:It is true that Eclipse does not provide this at base, though claiming that the one mod-slot required is "significant trade-off"
Considering one mod slot can give you 99% power strength, and that can give large amounts of power? Until you put augment slots in as exilus mods, it is a significant trade off.
However, if augments could be put in exilus most people would only lose say power drift or another far lesser trade off.1 hour ago, MarakViri said:Making it "equal" Roar in range would be more akin to a "significant trade-off", so I'm going to assume that is what you meant.
Seeing as Total Eclipse is 15 meters compared to Roar's 25, and only lasts as long as you are inside it. You have 3 downsides over roar.
#1 30 meter vs 50. #2 Have to stay within range for total eclipse #3 takes up a mod slot. Increasing the duration of eclipse like with narrow minded. is going to have a more negative impact then it would on roar.1 hour ago, MarakViri said:I am fully aware that Roar provides better damage, even at lesser values, due to being shared with teammates by default.
You aren't aware of anything. If this was something you had any grasp of. You'd realize that a buff extending to 3 other teammates is stronger then a 15% increase to your own weapon damage.
I know you are completely unaware because while Eclipse and Roar are the same tool for different jobs. Roar was always designed to be one size fits all buff. Its job is to boost frames focused on both abilities and weapon damage.
Eclipse is specialized. Its the Master of One opposed to the Jack of all trades nature of Roar.1 hour ago, MarakViri said:Honestly, I would argue more that Eclipse should have the effect of it's augment become integrated to it's kit, with the augment shifting to function more like [Everlasting Ward], but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
Nope! Mirage isn't a support frame. She's a frame that specializes in crowd control or damage. Her augment should stay an augment. I'd prefer if Total Eclipse was changed to give allies the full duration of the buff when they are in range.
1 hour ago, MarakViri said:Yes, Roar does do that. Provides a Faction Damage Multiplier to all outgoing damage caused by somebody with the buff. So, yes, frames that utilise ability damage such as Saryn are going to prefer this. The thing is, Saryn would use Roar over Eclipse even if the latter had no diminished effect, because the ability damage is so integral to their kit. Especially given the interaction with Toxic Lash.
And you finally figured out what frames want roar. I quite enjoyed doing the math on Miasma and found out that it fit perfectly to my suggestion of 90% damage on eclipse.
But Roar just helps Saryn out from spores, to Miasma.1 hour ago, MarakViri said:Yes, I understand you are trying to keep them in-line with their full power (even if you got the numbers wrong in doing so).
Except I didn't. I'm well aware that normal Eclipse is 200%. 60% of normal eclipse would 120%. However, I used 60% of the helminth eclipse we got to put it at 90%. That's still 3x the 30% we get from roar, and that would be the lowest Eclipse could go for me in order for me to consider it.
Right now Eclipse only exists as a defense buff until it is buffed back up to being some kind of usable.2 hours ago, MarakViri said:You seem to be forgetting the fact that the initial, raw damage was never the strength of Roar. It was always the Damage over Time.
Sorry but you focus on one thing at a time. I don't.
Jack of all trades is Roar's strength. DoT being buffed more is nice, and is one of the reasons why Eclipse needs a stronger buff. But Roar is the omni buff. I won't get into how roar would quickly surpass eclipse in terms of a full squad based around status effects.2 hours ago, MarakViri said:Roar, as a team-wide buff, should provide more DPS when used as a team than Eclipse should as single target ability. However, Eclipse should be better at the individual level, but even Roar at 2 (or possibly 3) should out-DPS it.
You should be telling yourself this not me.
Cause Eclipse isn't even winning at the individual level. Most Warframes have an equivlent of their own Miasma that makes Roar the better choice.2 hours ago, MarakViri said:A 90% base Eclipse with 100% Strength (when compared to a 4-man Roar of equal Ability Strength), will deal roughly 39.79% of the raw damage, and 33.34% of the DoT damage. At 200% Ability Strength, the raw damage increases to 50.46%, and the DoT goes to 36.24%.
A 120% base Eclipse with 100% Strength (when compared to a 4-man Roar of equal Ability Strength), will deal roughly 46.08% of the raw damage, and 38.60% of the DoT damage. At 200% Ability Strength, the raw damage increases to 61.27%, and the DoT goes to 44.17%
If you are trying to convince me that 90% Eclipse isn't the way to go, this isn't how you do it. Considering This isn't factoring what Roar would do to warframe abilities, This is what I'd expect the buff from a single ability to do well, instead of a jack of all trades ability.
You counter your own argument far better then you could ever argue.2 hours ago, MarakViri said:And, again, going right to insults when you can't understand somebody's point of view
Unfortunately for you, I understand your point. That's the problem. That's why you are getting called out. Cause you don't actually think past surface level.
You solely look at weapon damage and go "Eclipse should be 50% (15%) stronger than roar. "45% is fine" Except Mirage is 200% compared to Rhino's 50%. Your logic doesn't make sense compared to the source frames, If Eclipse was say... 75% Multiplicative Bonus then your logic would have at least some kind of precedent? Cause right now 45% is just a number you pulled out of your opinion, that you like the math of. There's no actual logic behind your choice of that number.
Since you struggle with any concept of logic, I'll give you an example. Its called "Standard." De used Roar's 30% and used it as the standard to adjust eclipse. There's at least some logic there, even if doesn't make any sense nerfing a specific single person buff to 15% of its original value compared to a team wide omni buff.
Normal Eclipse and Normal Roar are fine. They are the stanadard. Roar in helminth is weakened by 60%. Logically, nerfing any similar ability past that 60% is going to negatively break that standard. I applied the standard to Eclipse at 150% and got the result of 90%. (If you want to make the argument for 120% instead, be my guest.) My 90% was a compromise between what it was, (150%) and the utterly useless 30% that it is now.
90% is also the median between 30% and 150%. Exactly in between the two. It doesn't lose 77% to 66% of its power compared to how roar loses 40%. Like if any semblence of logic actually fit in your brain you'd go. "Hmm. Maybe Eclipse being 22% of its original power is too low.-
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8 hours ago, MarakViri said:
Alright, so, I normally don't fight the unarmed in the battle of wits, but I find you lack of civility genuinely toxic,
Its not a fight. That would imply you are competition. You can't compete.
Outside of the correct application of math, I haven't seen you do anything correct. Your logic and reasoning have no standards other than what you "feel" is fair.8 hours ago, MarakViri said:The only difference is that I have at least some understanding of damage scaling, and am aware that, at the base 100% strength that you proposed, the roles get reverse, and Eclipse becomes overwhelmingly better than Roar.
You suffer from being pretentious. That's the difference between us.
Ecliipse should be stronger. Because Eclipse doesn't apply to 3 other teammates without a significant trade off. You and I can compare Roar and Eclipse all day. However you don't care or consider how much more damage Roar provides simply buffing an entire squad.
Roar just scales an entire team's damage. Weapons, abilities, companions. It does it all. Saryn isn't going to benefit from Eclipse like it would from Roar.
So I've been proposing to keep the helminth versions of both abilities in line with their full power counterparts. Something you can't fathom because you have no concept of how to balance single person buffs, vs group buffs.
Let's go back to one of our examples.- Eclipse : 1000 * 1.55 * 1.3 = 2015
- Roar : 1000 * 1.85 = 1850
Now, instead of limiting ourselves to solo player perspective, we are going to include teammates.
Roar: 4 * 1000 * 1.85 = 7400
Roar is almost 50% stronger from teammates alone. Not including Companions, Abilities, or anything else. A base Saryn Miasma can do 3600 damage. Roar would buff that to 4680 per enemy hit. So Eclipse adds 465 damage. Roar adds 300 PER PERSON, and 1080 damage per Miasma.
So to a knucklehead like yourself, what would it take to make Eclipse competitive in such a scenario? Are you going to bring Roar that ends up adding 2280 damage? Or are you going to use Eclipse for 465?
Now. We are going to use what Eclipse SHOULD be. Not what you feel. 90% Weapon damage.-
Eclipse : 1000 * 1.55 * 1.9 = 2945. That's 1395 damage difference. Rhino roar (Which should be the weaker weapon damage buff) adds 1200 weapon damage across an entire team. That's 195 difference between the two abilities. All it would take for Roar to catch up to that difference is If the team has companions that can deal 37.5 (or 3% of their player's damage)
So let's give you a summary using these numbers as an example.
Damage Increase per One Person:
30% Roar with One Miasma = 1380 damage. (300 + 1080)
90% Ecplise = 1395 damage.
Eclipse needs to be 90% for this ^ exact reason. Its only a weapon damage increase. Any less that 90% and it can't compete with Roar.
Full Squad Increase
30% Roar = 1200 damage.
90% Ecplise = 1395 damage.
1 Miasma per player = 4320 damage.
(This is all the damage Roar/Eclipse adds, not the total damage.)
Remember when I said Eclipse had to be around this amount to be worth it? Maybe you should try listening to somebody who actually has a clue.
Your proposed Eclipse?
- Eclipse : 1000 * 1.55 * 1.45 = 2247.5 Aka 697.5 damage increase. Not even close to Roar + Miasma's 1380. Perhaps if you try... doubling the amount you listed, you'd get something close.
8 hours ago, MarakViri said:And no, Roar applies to all enemies in range of the ability at the time of casting, and will remain on them for the entirety of the duration, regardless of whether they remain in range.
Roar applies to allies. Try to get your abilities correct.
8 hours ago, MarakViri said:[Total Eclipse] applies to allies that are within range of you at any moment while the ability is active,
Wonderful. Adding another way Eclipse can be functionally worse than Rhino Roar.
8 hours ago, MarakViri said:I am aware
You are in fact not.
You suffer from shortsightedness from focusing on a single aspect, instead of the full picture.Its why you can't make a convincing argument.
8 hours ago, MarakViri said:Wow. Tell me you have literacy capability,
Try having mental capacity first.
8 hours ago, MarakViri said:Bringing up the helminth diminish as if I am unaware of this
If you had any awareness outside yourself, (You should work on that btw.) you would have figured out the issue everyone else realized hours ago.
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Let us Pick Deep Archimedea rewards
in General Discussion
Posted
That's why I made the suggestion to just have each person in DA have void relic like rewards, so if one person rolls an arcane you want, or another person rolls a shard, you can actually choose between rng rolls.
Would feel better than just melee adapters :T