Solvite
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Posts posted by Solvite
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I bought a reactor and catalyst with my 50 free credits, so F2P players are given the chance to have one unlocked frame right away.
I also farmed and built all of my weapons and Frames.
Just saying.
Definitely this.
And a level 15 gorgon can handle anything in the game weapon wise.
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It's too easy. But its a beta, they want us to test stuff.
They can't have us find bugs if we are too busy "progressing" through the content.
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Kunai with Chain.
Warframes first Melee/ranged weapon.
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Okay, then close your thread. You're whining that the Gorgon's DPS is too high. That is all your OP and the entirety of this thread is. "The Gorgon's DPS is too high nerf it!"
Also, DPS should have no place in this game as a statistic? Really now. You are doing damage to targets. Those targets are doing damage to you. Naturally DPS is important in the sense that it shows you how fast you can theoretically eliminate targets. This is very important in any game involving doing damage to enemies that uses a hitpoint system instead of, I don't know, a critical hit system.
Asking devs to not balance around DPS and TTK is asking them to not balance around an important core mechanic.
Pretty sure I was complaining about the Gorgon's utility. Hopefully in the future the boss AI will improve and they wont stand in your bullet spray letting you hit them.
When the enemies can hide behind cover, Damage Per Second because a very vague statistic.
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Seriously? The Hek is about as accurate than the Gorgon, mag-dumps much faster (it has higher burst and similar sustained DPS under most circumstances), and is far more ammunition efficient. Just because it's a shotgun doesn't mean it's inaccurate.
And 3x-4x faster? A Gorgon does 25 dmg per shot, at 16.67 rate, for 417 dps at max speed. It takes about 2 seconds to spin up to that rate and has about half that dps while spinning up on average, so in an engagement where you need less than 3 seconds of Gorgon fire to finish (i.e. you need to deal less than 800 damage x whatever mods/upgrades you have) you're actually getting more like 300 dps.
The basic Braton does 15 dmg per shot at 15 rate, for 225 dps. In most combat situations the Gorgon barely manages 50% more DPS than a Braton. In combat situations where enemies are extremely spaced out (i.e. most non-boss, non-Infested fights in larger rooms), unless you're wasting a gigantic pile of bullets against scenery-and at the Gorgon's fire rate this is nontrivial, the Gorgon's DPS is actually lower than the Braton's.
Now, the issue is that the Braton also has a fairly solid DPS, whereas the Burstron should have really awesome DPS (500 in theory!) but seems to have less than a third that because of the excessive burst delay (which needs to be cut down), the Latron suffers from the same issue, and so on.
The only non-Hek primary weapons which approach the Braton's DPS or exceed it are the Strun (204) and the Boar (300, but it eats through ammo like a fat guy eating through cake).
No, I'm saying that the OP's whinging, that "GORGONS TAKE NO SKILL" is entirely misplaced, because they use identical skills.
Shock horror a LMG is really good at engaging multiple tightly packed targets. I mean, this is a map problem, a enemy pacing problem, a level design problem, not "We should nerf the LMG to be worse at something it should be the absolute best at" problem.
I would totally be all for a Burstron and Latron which don't suck and Akfurises which don't suck and so on. But I don't really think the Gorgon has much of a problem in terms of DPS. Making impossible to use accurately without ADS would probably be a decent nerf (it is a LMG after all) but it should be capable of putting somewhat accurate, sustained high-damage fire on targets if you can set up in a position which isn't too vulnerable.
Give enemies more rockets and explosives to make that risky, and there you go. Balance.
DPS should have no place in this game as a statistic.
People use DPS as a measurement in WoW because the enemies stand there and let you hit them. Please PLEASE PLEAAASE developers dont start balancing around DPS and TTK in a freaking third person shooter.
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I dont see an issue.. more guns will come out in due time. then you all will get mad about them being op
&& how they should be gimped or on the level as a rank 1 gun
Some of u say all this ranting to keep the game fair.. fair from what? you haveing to use your player "skill" to have a higher score
then a player with a bigger gun?
another guy say's its an issue eveyone is useing these guns...really? its a "limited content"beta when you see people use the same gun its unavoidable eveyone is gonna want to try stuff out and with the market so small right now your bound to see the same stuff gamefrom to game get real.
another dude says well maybe they should change how it works so it can be like tf2 and have a wind up.. another oh oh it should have a heavy kick back!! or oh oh it should only burst fire gimp gimp nerf nerf so make it wakk?
what is wrong with a gun that works and kills a target fast?
if you use a shotty at close range on this game insta kill!!
head shots insta kill!!
your telling me you want the flow of the game to be so slow that you useing a light support MG in a scifi setting should have heavy kick back and shallow clip and inaccurate is all hell? what fun is that.. none!!
btw i dont use it bc i dont feel safe with it cant kill stuff as fast as a shotty up close and most games anyone with the gun gets out done with a strun in my team its not that op people are just over reee actiing ...
The gorgon is more effective at close range than any of the shotguns but the HEK.
The game shouldnt be built around leveling weapons up to 30 if they are just going to keep giving you stronger weapons as you RANK up.
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Even if the Gorgon stays the way it does, I'd like to see a MK2-Braton or something, so that there can be an actually viable rifle in the game that doesnt spread like the Gorgon.
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Buying a Bolto now.
Its pretty amazing.
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Great feedback! I agree with most of the stuff you're talking about there. Rest assured that we'll be getting more variation in enemy types, more tilesets, more faction-specific behaviors/hazards, etc, it just takes time.
I'm actually working on a system right now that I believe will be great for endgame and those seeking a challenge, but that's still a little ways out.
Lag is definitely an issue. We're doing our best to cut down on network traffic to make the game run better in bad conditions and this is an ongoing battle, but in the end it will always be possible for a host with a crappy internet connection to make the game run terribly. Maybe someday we can get dedicated servers for all!
I always assumed the lag came from all world regions being matched together. That's part of all CBTs when the population cant support Euro/Asian servers.
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Why does a shooter need a feeling of progression?
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You may notice that though I speak with a strong opinion on this site, I do not have a founder tag. That is because funds are short right now, but in due time I will support this game as strongly as I can.
I had my doubts, but something happened so amazingly perfect that I immediately fell in unbreakable love with this game.
I ran into a door, it opened, I spotted 3 grineer, and one of the grineer with a shield. I spammed my bolto at the first grineer, who then got bolted onto the other grineer's shield, and he charged at me and started slapping me with his friends dead body.
Touche Warframe. Touche.
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I'd go in this direction, with a more chugga chugga approach to the fire rate + instead of spread to get a medium to high recoil on the weapon to make up for the rate of fire. On top of this, I'd add a bit extra dmg and maybe some armor pen, but only a tiny bit to keep the thing within check and with that give the gun some personality, in the sense that it is an anti-infantry/anti-personal gun.
In fact, what I'm going for here is best defined by the Nazi Germany MG42 MG.
Why would you add damage and armor pen? The gun already does more damage than the other guns of its type.
The idea we are suggesting is side grade weapons. People seem unable to let go of the idea that being rank 2 entitles you to a gun that is more powerful than all the others.
If that is the direction the developers choose to take, I will accept it. But my honest feedback is that Sidegrade weapons are better than escalating weapon tiers.
Edited to Add:
I agree with the MG42 reference, that would be cool. But adding Armor Pen to a weapon does not qualify it as an anti-infantry weapon. It just makes to better against Grineer.
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The issue I see from a design side is that the Gorgon doesn't really seem like an LMG since it doesn't have the characteristics or drawbacks of an LMG when compared to an assault rifle. I would replace most of the spread with recoil/kick, "managing" spread isn't a skill, it's letting go of the trigger. Another possibility is to only allow slow walking (ADS speed perhaps) while firing. I know that interferes with the whole jumpy slidy ninja thing but the Gorgon isn't a ninja weapon anyway.
I feel like the devs need to decide what they want the weapon to be. I can think of a couple routes that may help clarify the Gorgon and make it more interesting.
1. M60 - No increasing firing rate, just a constant chugga chugga with hearty kick to keep players on their toes.
2. Gatling gun - More like the TF2 minigun, brief wind up followed by a spray of death. Spread would be more applicable here.
This guy gets it.
Nothing I said in that post has to do with burst damage. It's about effective ranges due to accuracy. In those huge wide open rooms weapons like the braton, latron, snipetron are more ideal because of long range accuracy allowing you to take everything out reliably without having to actually run around as much. However most of the rooms in the ships are rather small forcing combat at ranges ideal to the Gorgon.
Also the Gorgon doesnt hit ludicrously hard with each bullet unless you have good mods attached to it or are running a low level mission with light armored targets.
The Gorgon hits harder with each bullet than any other automatic rifle in the game. It fires faster than any other Automatic rifle in the game. It has more bullets in the clip than any other automatic rifle in the game.
The Gorgon is the space ninja equivalent of an M240 with the weight and recoil of an M4.
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This definitely isnt a "dungeon crawler".
Thats the real issue here. This is a co-op shooter.
Ever since the MMORPG craze that occured in 2004, every game apparently needs "rare items" to be fun apparently. The fun of Warframe is knowing that you completed the mission.
It is currently CBT, EARLY CBT, so I'm assuming they would rather have us test the game than have us grinding a hardcore endgame.
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Its cool that there is single player + multiplay in a 3rd person fps, and being able to obtain these items in a dungeon crawler esque game. But about reaching an end to the story, what is there? Sure game is about collecting items and defeating bosses but it seems useless, comparirng to all these other games IE: diablo 3 torchlight 2 and bl2 this game has crazy proteinal. NO point in gearing up if you cant use them against friends and others in pvp, GUYS think like league of legends.!!!!
Yeah, this medium budget, non AAA title doesnt have as much content and depth in beta as Diablo 3 and Borderlands 2 do 6 months to a year after release.
The game is doomed we need to switch genres to stay alive.
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More damage per shot than an automatic rifle, Larger clip, aim down sights to tighen cone, run and gun. Sounds like a typical LMG on any CoD game to me. Atleast the Braton for me still hit targets reliably at long range when I used ADS provided I didn't keep the trigger pulled for full auto. At a comparable distance trying to do the same with a Gorgon I tend to watch the first 3-6 bullets hit around the reticule before one actually lands on mark.
People seem to be convinced that the MINISCULE loss of burst damage you suffer by using the gorgon someone offsets the ability to spam ludicrously hard hitting rounds for prolonged periods of time.
I notice this mindset in most newer games. Its like people have forgotten that Burst Damage isnt the only form of damage.
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Yo dawg, you left out the part where the gorgon does it 3x-4x faster than any other gun except the HEK. And the HEK does at least require exposing oneself to somewhat more risk, forgoing cover and a more twitch+rush style.
Are you seriously pretending that when it comes down to it some guns aren't outrageously more effective than others?
I can use the hell out of a lex btw this isn't a comparison based on skill. From the moment I acquired the weapon I could line up headshots a bit faster than the lex base firing rate. OR I can whip at the gorgon and use my same ability to aim well to kill everything faster and unless the snipetron scales up better than every other gun, the campirson holds true for EVERY OTHER (agian, excluding hek) primary I have touched.
And yes you are right about boss mechanics needing some tweaks.
What you aren't right about is weapon balance not needing tweaks. And the gorgon doesn't necessarily need a nerf, the other weapons just need to feel more like options and less like second rate.
I disagree. I don't feel like leveling up your character should turn you into a super hero.
I think the game should have a continuously increasing difficulty curve, not a flat tier that you hit, at which point you just poop on all enemies and farm parts for new costumes.
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The way the OP keeps trying to point out the Snipetron being a higher skill weapon makes me think he's simply upset he gets no kills in team games because run and gun players take everything out while he's trying to aim and is simply picking a weapon he sees the run and gun players using as a scapegoat to vent on.
You can run and gun with the Snipetron.
But you still have to identify a target, aim at it, and hit its body.
With the gorgon you just look in the general direction of enemies and hold left click until they are dead. The spread is honestly helpful on some enemies,
It doesnt make sense for the fastest firing primary do do more damage per shot than the other automatics, have the ability to ADS and make the cone smaller, the ability to shoot on the run, and a giant clip like a minigun.
I am merely saying the developers need to decide if the Gorgon is a semi auto, an LMG, a mid range Assault Rifle, or a Vulcan Minigun, because currently it is all of those.
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Yes it does.
Using the Lex: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, mash LMB, repeat.
Using the Gorgon: Move reticle on enemy while dodging fire, hold LMB, repeat.
SO MUCH MORE SKILL USING THE LEX. Oh wait while using a Gorgon I also have to manage recoil and spread and ADS if they're far away.
Literally every criticism of the Gorgon you make applies to other guns. This is a boss design problem and encounter problem, not a Gorgon problem.
And that's a problem with boss design, not the Gorgon, because it is the same thing no matter what weapons you have. One weapon just needs to be rapidfire because boss shield regen is terribly implemented.
You don't need to manage spread with the Gorgon.
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Oh yes. Because my most used weapon isn't the Lex or anything. Nope.
A weapon most people consider underpowered.
Sorry, the Gorgon isn't OP to the extent you're claiming, I think you're just angry that autofire weapons and LMGs in particular don't suck.
Your ability to effectively use the Lex doesnt change the fact that all weapons are sub par compared to the bullet hose.
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Look maybe you don't like automatic weapons but here's a hint.
If you aren't aiming with the Gorgon you aren't actually doing much damage. There is a reason I get high accuracy with my Gorgon and it isn't because I just wave it around and click LMB. It's because I do, in fact, AIM.
FYI: If those guys you're playing with have decent to good accuracy ratings they aren't "waving the gun around holding LMB". And unlike your precious snipetron they have to deal with recoil and their cone of fire getting larger if they move, while the Snipetron can fast scope for 100% accuracy without any movement speed impact.
Its even worse if you do aim.
Fights in this game usually boil down to 4 guys with Gorgons spamming at the boss until it dies from the combined weight of their bullet vomit.
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And why exactly would this "fix" anything? The Gorgon is mainly good against bosses because of their too-fast shield regen, which means the large mag size and high fire rate make them a lot less durable.
The easiest fix for the Gorgon would be to stop bosses renerating their shields after .5 seconds of not taking damage.
Funnily enough that doesn't nerf it, it makes single-shot weapons more viable. This insistence that machine guns can't ever be allowed to be the real killers in video games is kind of aggravating.
Also lol at "Gorgon users expose themselves to fire to use their weapons more effectively!" Them standing out in the open and getting their faces shot off isn't a bug, it's a feature. To use the Gorgon correctly you need to expose yourself for extended periods of time, otherwise it's a less accurate Latron that does less damage. This isn't a strength, it's a weakness.
Look if you DO insist it needs a nerf it should slow you down when firing or be totally inaccurate hipfired, like the Snipetron.
Also amusing is how you contradict yourself. Does it deliver a lot of ammo on target, or does it require no skill because it sprays everywhere?
The Gorgon's DPS is only about 50% better than a Braton, you know, assuming it spins up to max and all shots hit their target (not going to happen and not going to happen). It's not a wonder weapon any more than any other heavily modded automatic rifle. It's powerful, it may be the best AR right now but it's not head and shoulders better.
tl;dr: The Gorgon is mostly okay as is. Any "balance changes" made to it should impact the user's ability to avoid incoming attacks, not their ability to kill things.
Or maybe the fix is to make people stop saying the Gorgon is balanced in order to perpetuate their desire to easily farm bosses for warframe parts.
I realize it sucks actually playing the game, but the balance shouldnt suffer for it.
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Weapons should be side grades in my opinion, especially when there are this few weapons in the game.
Its lame how everyone uses the same gun.
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People wouldnt be so keen to use the Gorgon if they couldnt use it as both a minigun and an assault rifle.
General Consensus on difficulty of Warframe - please feedback!
in General
Posted
The difficulty of this game is dependent on how many people are in your game.
Solo = hard mode
4 players = easy mode