Survival Mode Improvements

[gell]

Disclaimer: I know there are a handful of survival mode threads; I read them all. I’m also suggesting only improvements to the system, not the HUD or other balance tweaks. I like to make suggestions simple, because as a developer, I know when suggestions can get out of hand and create way too much work. These are simple solutions (to the best of my knowledge and assumptions because I don't work at DE), but would greatly improve Survival mode to me.

 

 

 

Problem: Survival mode is actually about choosing when to fail, not trying to survive.

 

Currently we play survival until we want to quit. Dying is the only way to fail really (as no one will really run out of oxygen in the first couple minutes). When we want to quit playing, we have to... die by forcefully running out of oxygen. DE, is this really your idea of "mission complete"? We're all martyrs for alpha team.

 

 

Proposed Solutions:

As others have suggested, it would be nice to have some form of extraction. If we're to have a mission completed, we should probably leave, alive. Notice how right now after mission complete, the enemy continues to attack us, often killing us right there on screen. But we won!

 

 

A) Lotus could spawn an extraction “pod” just like she’s spawning oxygen tanks. We run there and activate it. Visually, you can have the pod shoot smoke everywhere (large Ash smoke bomb?) and immediately cut to a cutscene of our little Tenno ship flying away, just like the intro but away instead of towards the ship. The feeling of completion would be there. Or B) the map could be tweaked to have an escape pod on the far end of the room, which the Tenno may use at any time to get out of there.

 

 

Work required:

A) A VFX artist will have to set up the big smoke poof.

 

An animator will have to set up the extraction cutscene (really all missions should have an extraction cutscene relevant to the mission, but that’s another wish :P).

 

A level designer will have to set up the extraction pod to spawn somewhere.

 

 

B) If it’s the extraction zone like our usual maps, then a level designer needs to rework one part of the room to have an extraction zone.

 

 

 

 

Problem: Survival mode gets repetitive and boring after a while.

 

Granted, people like the endless enemies and constant destruction (I do, to an extent). We have to be aware of this and keep this relatively unchanged. But peaks and valleys are good for a feeling of involvement.

 

 

Proposed Solutions:

A) Keeping in mind that these are relatively quick to implement, imagine if the map changed as you played. Some doors could be locked at the start of the mission (these are the big defense maps with tons of doors). Every so often, a door is either opened or locked and Lotus tells us to hack a console to reverse the change. Based on your desire to fight more or fewer enemies, you can hack it or let it be.

 

 

B) Another random event could be a special oxygen tank that requires a bit more hacking to open. You have to solve a “hard” hacking puzzle (like the one going to Mastery rank 6 I believe). It’ll be right on the pod, so press ‘Use’ on the pod and instead of just standing there with your arm out, you’ll be involved in a hacking game. If it’s simple to do, DE could make it 3 hacking games in a row to require a bit more teamwork (or other CC) to allow the hacker some time.

 

 

C) Lotus could spawn in helpful items such as a health drop. Same as activating an oxygen tank, it could release health, energy, ammo, or other goodies.

 

 

There are lots of little things that can happen to continue your killing of the horde, while still making it feel like things are happening around you.

 

 

Work required:

A) A level designer needs to do some fancy work with triggers and whatnot to make this happen. Sound and Rebecca would need to record some new lines.

 

 

B) A level designer has to make the special pod use a hacking minigame instead of just standing there. Chained minigames would require some fiddling though as we haven’t seen these.

 

 

C) This would require some work from level designers and maybe programmers, but not likely. Setting an object to spawn some things like a locker or canister is probably doable with just editing some data.

 

 

 

 

Problem: There’s no reason to go for a long time aside from continued random drop rewards, or bravado (leaderboards).

 

If DE thinks this is enough, I guess we’ll have to take it. But if they think we should have some more incentive to keep going, like Endless Defense provides, there could be some quick ways to fix this.

 

 

Proposed Solutions:

Having a locked door allows Lotus to reveal that there’s an artifact to be had. If we go and grab the artifact, she will reward us for it. The artifact spawn will be like a reverse Defense mission. Okay, that may sound complicated, but it’s not. The room opens, we’re allowed to go in and take the artifact, but in there are a bunch of enemies and traps. This requires the most from a level designer as they need to place enemies and traps in the room. The lazy way is to just set the room to have a few enemy spawns in it, so before the door unlocks, a bunch of enemies are spawned in. If we’re going for fancier polish, then enemy formations and strategically designed enemies would be placed there, such as a Ballista (sniper) on a high perch.

 

 

The point here is that the player is given the option for a greater reward, and not stuck killing enemies for “alpha team.” If all that is too complicated, the simplest way to convey a reward is to have Lotus spawn in a mod drop in a set location with a different colored/shaped HUD marker (purple circle??). We go there and grab it. Sure, we could just get rewards at the end, but I feel spawning in the reward makes it feel more involved.

 

 

Work required:

Having doors remain locked requires a level designer to lock those doors and script them to open at some intervals (and close the door or destroy the reward if there’s a timer). They will also need to spawn enemies somehow. A systems designer will have to balance the level of drops and rewards given out. Lotus would need some new lines. HUD artist would need to add a special marker for the reward drop.

 

 

 

 

I have plenty of ideas for way cooler things, but they would all require more work than the proposed. I know https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/101244-if-survival-is-going-to-replace-raids-then-you-have-to-keep-it-fresh-gets-boring-after-20-min'>some have suggested a level progression (start in one room, door unlocks, move to another after 5 minutes, repeat etc). That one sounds like a fair amount of work to set up (not a lot, not nominal), but a level designer might know better with the tools they have.

 

 

Do these ideas work? Do you think it changes survival too much or maybe they aren’t big enough to make a difference? Thanks for reading.

Edited September 5, 2013 by gell

[legionprobatio]

I agree with everything( to a certain extent) but I do not agree with your last suggestion. Then people would probably play survival only for the reward, depending on what it is. If it's not worth it, they won't even touch the artifact.

[gell]

I agree with everything( to a certain extent) but I do not agree with your last suggestion. Then people would probably play survival only for the reward, depending on what it is. If it's not worth it, they won't even touch the artifact.

 

So what is the point of survival now? Why do people play it now? From what I've heard, and my own reasons, it's for farming drops.

 

I proposed the problem as I've seen on the forums (there are a few threads about it). People get bored after a while and just want to quit. What are they quitting? Just the farming. They're done farming.

 

The artifact is a bonus to keep going. It's not a potato or Forma I'm suggesting. It's just a random mod that would be scaled to a loot table, similar to how every 5 waves of Defense, you are offered a mod to quit. Is that really so bad? 

[Firetempest]

Some simplistic improvements in difficulty.

 

Invincible defense turrets in the enemy spawn rooms to keep players from making a pillbox and only going out periodically for drops.

Can mix it up per race. we have the corpus turrets already. Could give grineer chaingun sentry, and infested a poison spore pod shooter.

[gell]

Some simplistic improvements in difficulty.

 

Invincible defense turrets in the enemy spawn rooms to keep players from making a pillbox and only going out periodically for drops.

Can mix it up per race. we have the corpus turrets already. Could give grineer chaingun sentry, and infested a poison spore pod shooter.

 

I like this suggestion. For starters, Corpus maps should have turrets that will always be on alert unless you hack a console for a few minutes, then they'll get set off again (it's like disabling the security system in your house for one minute but it will rearm itself automatically) The hacking will keep at least one player moving. The position of the console can either change (that's a bit weird though), or have the console in a very treacherous area (near sweeping lasers?).

 

I'm all for the turrets with other factions too, but to keep the work load down it's not something I want to suggest. Corpus turrets just requires a level designer to hook them up.