Pvparanoia Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love 2V2

[General_Krull]

If PvP ever becomes a full thing, I will instantly go in their with my Loki, climb to the highest point on the map and go invisible, then kill everyone with my Snipetron. I'll be all pitch black, with no energy color. No one will see me. No one would be able to stop me.

 

We don't need PvP.

Ogris ogris ogris ogris acrid acrid acrid acrid

[whitejackale]

 

 

Imagine how much COULD be done right now if PvP wasn't being implemented as we speak, unless they hire more people our PvE creators are being diverted to PvP.

 

 

Imagine how developers have different teams for different content.

[whitejackale]

 

We don't need PvP.

You not wanting PvP does not mean that other players do not want PvP.

[whitejackale]

Time and resources would have to be spent on the balance of PvP while the rest of the game desperately needs polish, balance, updates etc. 

 

I am sure that DE has different teams for different aspects of a game. I do not think it would be too difficult for a PvP team to use all of the PvE assets from the game to create a great PvP experience without taking resources away from the PvE development. They can use all of the art/animation/audio assets, and creating a PvP level is not difficult. And so long as they balance PvP without modifying the PvE balance there should be no issues with PvP balance ruining PvE balance.

[Liminal]

Imagine how developers have different teams for different content.

I don't actually think they have a "PvP team" right now. And to have one they'd probably need more income, which PvP might or might not bring, but still: part of the team would have to work on PvP first for it to make that money.

 

[Hayden11121]

Imagine how developers have different teams for different content.

Funny, last time I checked a PvE Coop game that isn't funded by any major sponsors have the money to buy an entire team for PvP?

 

Please, tell me how so!

[whitejackale]

If they implement 2v2 PvP now, People will realize how much more substance there is in PvP than there is in the current PvE. Speaking frankly (I do hope I haven't offended anyone), PvE has no substance. There's no reason to play PvE. Players, at least anyone wanting to have fun, will switch to PvP. New game modes and balancing need to appear. If people fall in love with PvP before PvE actually gets revamped, the Devs will be forced by the general populace to abandon uncharted waters and settle for a PvP oriented Warframe where the PvE side is merely to craft items to rock in PvP. Maybe this all sounds a bit contrived. Yeah. It is contrived. 

 

I'm not bashing on PvP. If the game becomes more PvP oriented, that's fine by me, too. I'm just stating what might happen.

The thing about PvP is that once you create it, you do not have to constantly create new content for it. It is possible for PvPers to continue to have fun while playing 3-5 maps that have various different game modes.

[Hayden11121]

The thing about PvP is that once you create it, you do not have to constantly create new content for it. It is possible for PvPers to continue to have fun while playing 3-5 maps that have various different game modes.

You know nothing of PvP.

 

You constantly have to maintain balance in PvP, ALOT. It always changes due to new gear, new builds, etc.

[whitejackale]

You know nothing of PvP.

 

You constantly have to maintain balance in PvP, ALOT. It always changes due to new gear, new builds, etc.

Balancing is very easy.

Edited September 10, 2013 by whitejackale

[Hayden11121]

Balancing is not new content, and so I did not mention it because it takes a lot less resources than new content.

But they can't even balance PvE content, which is really saying something. Anyone can take one look at this game and say "Acrid is way stronger then anything else" and it takes about 10 hours to realize that Secondaries in general are stronger.

 

Mixed with frames dealing damage being changed such as Ember < Nova, they can't even balance frames.

 

Now I am expected to try and watch them ATTEMPT to balance Warframe for PvP, the 4000 or so weapons, without dividing their entire attention towards the game?

I mean really, finish one chocolate bar before you move onto another, get balance in PvE that continues on to be balanced for a while, then you can start THINKING about PvP as a thing to do more then pass the time every once in a while.

[whitejackale]

But they can't even balance PvE content, which is really saying something. Anyone can take one look at this game and say "Acrid is way stronger then anything else" and it takes about 10 hours to realize that Secondaries in general are stronger.

 

I was merely pointing out that once the resources are used to create content for PvP there will be no need to continuously invest resources for the creation of new content. You create a few game modes, and people will be happy to play the same maps for months or years. Not only that, but all of the content that is created for PvE can be used in PvP with a few modifications.

 

Although it important to understand that DE has failed to properly balance PvE, and that they might fail to properly balance PvP once it is officially release, it is also important to understand that content creation and proper balancing are different things that require different resources. The guy that is in charge of balancing PvE can probably be tasked with balancing PvP without any resources being taken away from other parts of the game. The question is, do we want him balancing PvP if he can't even balance PvE?

[whitejackale]

Funny, last time I checked a PvE Coop game that isn't funded by any major sponsors have the money to buy an entire team for PvP?

 

Please, tell me how so!

Imagine how people are buying platinum to fund the development of warframe.

Edited September 10, 2013 by whitejackale

[Hayden11121]

Imagine how people are buying platinum to fund DE.

Imagine how many buy platinum for PvP.

 

Ignorance is Bliss..

[whitejackale]

Imagine how many buy platinum for PvP.

 

Ignorance is Bliss..

I bought platinum to fund the development of both PvE and PvP. How much money have you put forth for the funding of either PvE or PvP content in warframe?

[LeoAtKnight]

Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Portable 2 had a "Battle Mode". Although the game was primarily PvE it still included a little PvP mini game and some people actually enjoyed it.

In PSO it was mostly a troll game mode, and it was incredibly unbalanced. It was a little better in PSP2, and it had a small following of regular PvPers.

My point here is, although a game has a primary focus in PvE does not mean that a little PvP cannot be implemented.

Although I myself will never touch 2vs2 I welcome the addition, because it may be fun for others. Yes, this is resources that could be spent making PvE more balanced, but honestly I believe the reason the PvE isn't balanced right now is lack of early attention, and it isn't fixed now because they are unsure how to fairly go about adjusting balance. Do they nerf? Buff? Both? Sure, it's obvious the answer is both, but by how much? To what? Balance is incredibly complicated when you have multiple roles and styles to cover.

I'm thinking that the only reason this 2vs2 is even coming is because it was a little fun side project to add a little extra to the game while trying to figure out what to do about balance. BS? Sure, but when I'm writing a story and I get writers block I save, drop the story for a few days, even weeks, and then write something else until suddenly I get an idea. I believe the same can be applied here.

I'm derailing though, so I'll go back to the main topic here.

2vs2 is a nice mini-game to keep us entertained, even if it is destined to be an unbalanced instagib fest. As long as they put no more focus into PvP than they are now, I will be fine.

DE, don't go out of your way to balance PvP. Do not make events specifically for PvP either. Stay true to the PvE focus in terms of events, balance, and progression.

/pointlesspostover

[Hayden11121]

I bought platinum to fund the development of both PvE and PvP. How much money have you put forth for the funding of either PvE or PvP content in warframe?

Quite a bit, but I will not buy foundership. I buy platinum when I feel the need, in small five dollar purchases every couple or days or once a week.

 

Overall, I'm getting close to 60-70$ put into the game, but I must say that doesn't even matter.

 

If you bought your mastership JUST for PvP, I must say that you're the only one. I mean really, let's hop into this Coop PvE game and demand PvP!

[Makemap]

Here is how it is going to work if PVP is implemented.

PVP players: Omg Trinity has invulnerability, and Loki has Invisibility buff, this is unfair!

 

"DE remove Invulnerabilty from Trinity and Invisibility buff from Loki."

 

PvE players: Omg, WTH happened to Trinity and Loki, I can't survive high level planets(lvl 60+), these warframe are so useless and totally nerfed.

 

Full PVP will never happen in this game, it is aimed for PvE.

[theammostore]

You not wanting PvP does not mean that other players do not want PvP.

Just because others want it doesn't mean it's needed.

 

Balancing is very easy.

I'd like you to make a game and balance it. I've tried. It's not easy. I make mods for games, and I made a few mods for games like Star Wars: Empire at War and Battlefield 2142. It's not easy to balance games. There are always people yelling at you to fix something, even something you thought was fixed. It is in no way easy to balance a game.

 

EDIT: forgot to proofread

Edited September 10, 2013 by theammostore

[whitejackale]

 

If you bought your mastership JUST for PvP, I must say that you're the only one. I mean really, let's hop into this Coop PvE game and demand PvP!

It is clear that you did not read what I posted. I said that I buy platinum to fund the development of both PvE and PvP.

[whitejackale]

Just because others want it doesn't mean it's needed.

 

I'd like you to say that to make a game and balance it. I've tried. It's not easy. I make mods for games, and I made a few mods for games like Star Wars: Empire at War and Battlefield 2142. It's not easy to balance games. There are always people yelling at you to fix something, even something you thought was fixed. It is in no way easy to balance a game.

I said that the actual creation of resources is the most difficult part of developing a game, and that balancing numbers around on a spreadsheet takes a lot less resources than having to create all of that content. I stand by my statement that once PvP content is created there is little need to create additional content, and that most of what will have to be done is upkeep such as balancing in order to make it an enjoyable experience.

[CaptainohCaptain]

It is clear that you did not read what I posted. I said that I buy platinum to fund the development of both PvE and PvP.

And he said that nobody bought plat to support Pvp only.

And who is not a thoughtful reader out of you two after this?

[whitejackale]

And he said that nobody bought plat to support Pvp only.

And who is not a thoughtful reader out of you two after this?

He said "imagine how many people bought platinum for pvp," and I answered "I bought platinum to fund the development of both PvE and PvP." That should answer the question for you.

[CaptainohCaptain]

I said that the actual creation of resources is the most difficult part of developing a game, and that balancing numbers around on a spreadsheet takes a lot less resources than having to create all of that content. I stand by my statement that once PvP content is created there is little need to create additional content, and that most of what will have to be done is upkeep such as balancing in order to make it an enjoyable experience.

Lolwut? It takes about 10-12 monkeys to collect data, about 6-8 monkeys to test builds like a bosses and infinite quantity of time to polish pieces and keep them together. Not to mention that Pvp will be either constantly unbalanced (Due to new equipment) or slow PvE's new content (And I'll eat you personally with all your S#&amp;&#036; for this).

[theammostore]

I said that the actual creation of resources is the most difficult part of developing a game, and that balancing numbers around on a spreadsheet takes a lot less resources than having to create all of that content. I stand by my statement that once PvP content is created there is little need to create additional content, and that most of what will have to be done is upkeep such as balancing in order to make it an enjoyable experience.

But that's not what you said. You said that balancing is easy. It's not easy. Everything is connected in how it interacts with everything else. If you change, let's just say Contagion, so that it inflicts an AoE hit of poison from the first person you hit and sends out a wave of poison every time you swing the sword, then you are also changing up how players will use that power, and what weapons they would bring along, which in turn affects certain power combos of weapons. For example, someone always brings Acrid along because they need the poison damage to hit multiple targets at once at range. If Contagion could do that, you wouldn't bring along Acrid anymore, because now your 3 does that. You just nerfed Acrid ecause it's role has been replaced by an infinite, albeit it needs to be recharged, resource.

 

Balancing is by no means easy.

[Jhakoon]

pvp and pve cannot go together. one of them will always suffer from inbalance; every single mmo out there will show you.

warframes' weapons and skills concept fits pve, but it is quite worthless for pvp. how is a nyx supposed to be competetive? how is a good trinity player supposed to ever be beaten? there will be unbeatable combinations making others obsolete, excluding many warframes from successfully participating. and if they modify the warframes, you'll have a nice impact on pve, and everybody in the forum goes nuts.

if you add sth here you'll always lose sth on the other side, pve+pvp don't go together. maybe to some degree, yes, but not as perfect as they could be on their own.