Dual Ichor Buff Needed

[Mainabi]

Dual Ichor is underwhelming, since it's focussed on normal melee and it's overpriced to the max, atm there's almost no profit in going melee except for the orthos prime, (since it's charge) every other melee is in orthos prime's shadow, yes you can conserve ammo but with the dmg and utility and risk melee brings with it, I'd rather waste 2-3 bullets on an enemy from far far away, but that's another story, melee is underwhelming in general and needs a buff in general anyone knows that.
 

Now back to the dual ichor, it has nothing absolut noting but armor ignoring poison, it doesn't deal x3 dmg against infested (where melee shines most against all of these 3 fractions), I don't mind the lack of serrated blade but poison dmg, the problem is rather the price - cost ratio is off, they said in the livestream they're going to buff the embolist, but didn't say a word about the dual ichor, (can they ignore melee much more?)

 

not only you need 10 mutagen masses you also need 15k salvage and 2 forma, with the forma nerf in void, I'd say its pretty damn expensive with mutagen and and forma for a melee which isn't better than the dual ether.

 

so I got few suggestions

 

A: increase it's critchance to 50%, or increase critchance mods for melee to 150%, 60% is nothing it makes barely a different in terms of dps, rainbow build is still the way to go just a little bit different.

 

B: give it the acrid poison dot, stackable and based on base dmg, why? you have to get into melee range which is a pretty big risk, acrid will still outdmg it, but at least the price balance between the acrid and the dual ichor get closer, still not rly my favourite

 

C: my absolute favourite: increase the critchance to 42% AND give it the acrid poison dot, considering it needs that many ressources, it's melee, clantech, and according to scott himself mastery ranks should display the quality of the weapon so I think it would be only fair, and with that finally there's another alternative to gunplay.

 

D: a simple attackspeed buff to 1.8-2.2 somehow it feels rather slow atm

 

feel free to post your concerns and ideas or anything

except asking for cookies, these are on the table on the left

 

cya Seira

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[wkfire]

From the latest livestream, I thought Scott is going to buff these infested weapons to match up with their required resources? And since 10 mutagen masses are needed, I'm sure there will be a huge buff ;)

 

Point B and C will render the Mire useless btw. But clan weapons should be better. Lets see what Scott has in mind for a buff then. 

[Phoenix86]

Honestly i dont see why it needs a buff... (it needs a lower price for sure)

 

35 dmg... with 25% crit chance and 300% crit dmg at 1.2 attack speed, considering the mods you can equip on it...

 

it's insanely good.

 

i dont know if it can outdmg Orthos Prime (i think not) but it is defenetly on par.

 

Just imagine this loadout:

 

Pressure Point (+120% dmg)

Fury (60% speed)

True Steel (60% crit chance)

Organ Shatter (90% crit dmg)

Berserk (30% speed for 24s, STACKABLE afaik)

Sundering Strike (90% AP dmg)

North Wind (60% cold dmg)

Smite Grineer/Corpus/Infested (30% faction's base dmg)

 

Come on... it's simply INSANE.

 

I'm too lazy to write down all the math but the crits would sky-rocket both your dmg and attack speed so high it could outdmg Orthos Prime to me... except Light Infested maybe since it doesnt do triple dmg...

[Mainabi]

From the latest livestream, I thought Scott is going to buff these infested weapons to match up with their required resources? And since 10 mutagen masses are needed, I'm sure there will be a huge buff ;)

 

Point B and C will render the Mire useless btw. But clan weapons should be better. Lets see what Scott has in mind for a buff then. 

the mire is crap anyway, as every other longsword, also mire doens't have full poison it only adds +4 poison dmg on hit

 

@phoenix it's not insanely good, it's still weak it's extremly weak it can't compete with the orthos prime in any ways, it can barely compete with charge melee, it can compete with the sicarus but that's pretty much all

 

and they said themself they WON'T nerf the costs, therefore they have to buff it

 

(also don't forget with orthos you can maw down 5 enemies in a pretty big range at the same time)

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Phoenix86]

oh well... if it's gonna get buffed i really cant complaine... i can copter + dps in 1 weapon? here i come!

[Mainabi]

oh well... if it's gonna get buffed i really cant complaine... i can copter + dps in 1 weapon? here i come!

I mean it's rank 8 it has to be good ;)

[Phoenix86]

just wanted to say that, imho, it's already strong enough to blow out of the water all other weapons except for Orthos Prime...

[Mainabi]

just wanted to say that, imho, it's already strong enough to blow out of the water all other weapons except for Orthos Prime...

look it that way, dual ichor is that what you should expect from melee in a ninja space game, where guns are sooo much better melee aren't an alternative

 

edit: phoenix just checked the berserker mode in the duelling room, stacking wasn't possible :S

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Altey]

Dual Ichor is underwhelming, since it's focussed on normal melee and it's overpriced to the max, atm there's almost no profit in going melee except for the orthos prime, (since it's charge) every other melee is in orthos prime's shadow, yes you can conserve ammo but with the dmg and utility and risk melee brings with it, I'd rather waste 2-3 bullets on an enemy from far far away, but that's another story, melee is underwhelming in general and needs a buff in general anyone knows that.

 

Now back to the dual ichor, it has nothing absolut noting but armor ignoring poison, it doesn't deal x3 dmg against infested (where melee shines most against all of these 3 fractions), I don't mind the lack of serrated blade but poison dmg, the problem is rather the price - cost ratio is off, they said in the livestream they're going to buff the embolist, but didn't say a word about the dual ichor, (can they ignore melee much more?)

 

not only you need 10 mutagen masses you also need 15k salvage and 2 forma, with the forma nerf in void, I'd say its pretty damn expensive with mutagen and and forma for a melee which isn't better than the dual ether.

 

so I got few suggestions

 

A: increase it's critchance to 50%, or increase critchance mods for melee to 150%, 60% is nothing it makes barely a different in terms of dps, rainbow build is still the way to go just a little bit different.

 

B: give it the acrid poison dot, stackable and based on base dmg, why? you have to get into melee range which is a pretty big risk, acrid will still outdmg it, but at least the price balance between the acrid and the dual ichor get closer, still not rly my favourite

 

C: my absolute favourite: increase the critchance to 42% AND give it the acrid poison dot, considering it needs that many ressources, it's melee, clantech, and according to scott himself mastery ranks should display the quality of the weapon so I think it would be only fair, and with that finally there's another alternative to gunplay.

 

D: a simple attackspeed buff to 1.8-2.2 somehow it feels rather slow atm

 

feel free to post your concerns and ideas or anything

except asking for cookies, these are on the table on the left

 

cya Seira

^C

[OblivionNecroninja]

looking at the Wiki, dual ichor seems like it might be good with a critical build. Anybody tried that yet?

[Mainabi]

looking at the Wiki, dual ichor seems like it might be good with a critical build. Anybody tried that yet?

tried the crit build it's still feels to slow and weak

 

it has a jump attack aoe of around 1m it's almost nothing it doesn't stagger nor does it do a knockdown so it's pretty risky to use it in melee since you can't savely throw them down on the floor, another reason why it needs a hardbuff since for that price I'd expected way more, I tried to listen to the other guys who said it would be amazing but honestly it's still very weak

 

so somehow I still did 1 knockdown not sure, if it's buggy or something like that

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Retalia]

Honestly i dont see why it needs a buff... (it needs a lower price for sure)

35 dmg... with 25% crit chance and 300% crit dmg at 1.2 attack speed, considering the mods you can equip on it...

it's insanely good.

i dont know if it can outdmg Orthos Prime (i think not) but it is defenetly on par.

Just imagine this loadout:

Pressure Point (+120% dmg)

Fury (60% speed)

True Steel (60% crit chance)

Organ Shatter (90% crit dmg)

Berserk (30% speed for 24s, STACKABLE afaik)

Sundering Strike (90% AP dmg)

North Wind (60% cold dmg)

Smite Grineer/Corpus/Infested (30% faction's base dmg)

Come on... it's simply INSANE.

I'm too lazy to write down all the math but the crits would sky-rocket both your dmg and attack speed so high it could outdmg Orthos Prime to me... except Light Infested maybe since it doesnt do triple dmg...

77 Damage with Maxed Pressure Point

40% Crit with True Steel

438.9 Crit Damage with Organ Shatter

Edited September 19, 2013 by Retalia

[Phoenix86]

77 Damage with Maxed Pressure Point

40% Crit with True Steel

438.9 Crit Damage with Organ Shatter

 

Did you add the Smite *faction* 30% more base dmg?

 

Now we have to add Sundering Strike and North Wind (which must be calculated on the total crit dmg) and than check the attack speed which is 1.2*60%*30% (i still dont know if berserk is cumulative or not)

[knightinflames]

does it make you move like dual zoren do?

[Retalia]

Did you add the Smite *faction* 30% more base dmg?

 

Now we have to add Sundering Strike and North Wind (which must be calculated on the total crit dmg) and than check the attack speed which is 1.2*60%*30% (i still dont know if berserk is cumulative or not)

I was merely giving you the stats with those three mods. I was in bed at the time which is not really the ideal place to look up numbers and calculations. Here are the damages:

77 x 1.3 (Faction Mod+Pressure Point)=100.1 Normal Damage

438.9 x 1.3 (Faction Mod+Pressure Point+Organ Shatter)=570.57 Crit Damage

 

77 x 0.6 (North Wind+Pressure Point)=46.2 Ice Damage

438.9 x 0.6 (North Wind+Organ Shatter)=263.34 Ice Damage on Crit

 

77 x 0.9 (Sundering Strike+Pressure Point)=69.3 ArP Damage

438.9 x 0.9 (Sundering Strike+Pressure Point+Organ Shatter)=395.01 ArP Damage on Crit

 

Total:

((77)[Normal Damage] + (77 x 0.6)[ice Damage] + (77 x 0.9)[ArP Damage]) x 1.3 [Faction Mod]=250.25

((438.9)[Crit Damage] + (438.9 x 0.6)[ice Damage] + (438.9 x 0.9)[ArP Damage]) x 1.3 [Faction Mod]=1426.43

Assuming that Faction mods increase damage by 30% from each source.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Retalia

[Jugganatha]

-snip-

I'll take C, with a small side of D please.

[Dasmir]

I'll take C, with a small side of D please.

 

This ! ichord should be the king melee for melee attacks cuz its cost TONS and need RANK 8

[Jugganatha]

This ! ichord should be the king melee for melee attacks cuz its cost TONS and need RANK 8

I'm actually only rank 7, but I still have it :P

[Dasmir]

I'm actually only rank 7, but I still have it :P

 

Bps or already build ?

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Dual_Ichor

Edited September 19, 2013 by Dasmir

[Jugganatha]

Bps or already build ?

Already built. Started leveling yesterday.

[Mainabi]

Bps or already build ?

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Dual_Ichor

the mastery requirements got patched in later

[Mainabi]

I was merely giving you the stats with those three mods. I was in bed at the time which is not really the ideal place to look up numbers and calculations. Here are the damages:

77 x 1.3 (Faction Mod+Pressure Point)=100.1 Normal Damage

438.9 x 1.3 (Faction Mod+Pressure Point+Organ Shatter)=570.57 Crit Damage

 

77 x 0.6 (North Wind+Pressure Point)=46.2 Ice Damage

438.9 x 0.6 (North Wind+Organ Shatter)=263.34 Ice Damage on Crit

 

77 x 0.9 (Sundering Strike+Pressure Point)=69.3 ArP Damage

438.9 x 0.9 (Sundering Strike+Pressure Point+Organ Shatter)=395.01 ArP Damage on Crit

 

Total:

((77)[Normal Damage] + (77 x 0.6)[ice Damage] + (77 x 0.9)[ArP Damage]) x 1.3 [Faction Mod]=250.25

((438.9)[Crit Damage] + (438.9 x 0.6)[ice Damage] + (438.9 x 0.9)[ArP Damage]) x 1.3 [Faction Mod]=1426.43

Assuming that Faction mods increase damage by 30% from each source.

so I just used your data and made an average dps and I get 1383.78624 (without armor though)

max dps is 1798.922112 with berserker mod. (crit included here, with 40% critchance)

 

as comparison the braton prime deals 11680.44 damage per second

boltor deals 7358.68 dps (max splitchamber, serration, speedtrigger, cryo rounds, stormbringer, hellfire, piercing hit, shred [note that shred increases the attackspeed by 30% which is the same as 30% fraction dmg in terms of dps, not in terms of per hit])

even the mk-1 braton has 4879.78 raw damage per second against light armored grineer, as you can see totally worthless, completely underwhelming,

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Dasmir]

so I just used your data and made an average dps and I get 1383.78624 (without armor though)

max dps is 1798.922112 with berserker mod. (crit included here, with 40% critchance)

 

as comparison the braton prime deals 11680.44 damage per second

boltor deals 7358.68 dps (max splitchamber, serration, speedtrigger, cryo rounds, stormbringer, hellfire, piercing hit, shred [note that shred increases the attackspeed by 30% which is the same as 30% fraction dmg in terms of dps, not in terms of per hit])

even the mk-1 braton has 4879.78 raw damage per second against light armored grineer, as you can see totally worthless, completely underwhelming,

 

Theorical dps is theorical anyway is really hard to a nomarl attack melee to be competitive against guns where melee cant do headshot and the mods are CRAPY AS HELL for normal melee.

[Mainabi]

Theorical dps is theorical anyway is really hard to a nomarl attack melee to be competitive against guns where melee cant do headshot and the mods are CRAPY AS HELL for normal melee.

that raw damage is all calculated on BODY, I knew that melee can't easily aim on heads so I only wrote the body dmg, if I would add the weakpoints or head dmg it would be even worse for melee

 

but in all honesty the mods for melee aren't that bad except crit chance

 

the prob is simply melee base dmg has compete with guns while guns have 5-10x as much firerate (or more)

Edited September 19, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Jugganatha]

the prob is simply melee base dmg has compete with guns while guns have 5-10x as much firerate (or more)

That, and guns can actually hit things when they're more than 3 feet in front of you. I'm still not sure why melee is so unbalanced for how close you have to be to use it.