A Word From Sheldon

[SmallPaws]

Everyone complaining is really the type of person who needs instant gratification without being able to enjoy the game properly. It is to be played WITHOUT and I repeat WITHOUT having to get ALL of the content. Yes there may be things we want but you know what? You can't have it all all the time. DE is trying, and at that, way better than many if not most game companies. Sure, they're relatively new at publishing and developing independently so of course they are going to make mistakes. They don't even have the resources to gather data before they release content so of course they wouldn't know what the player base wants. Some of them barely slept over 4 hours still fixing the release for us. If you pretentious players really want your damn content MAKE IT YOURSELF and see how it feels with the pressure of the entire playerbase hounding your a** at every little mistake while you are sleep-deprived.

[ZephRG]

I also want to mention something in the apology that actually soured me even further. Their rationale for the insane crafting costs wasn't so much "we thought players would be able to gather these materials at a non-soul-crushing pace" as it was "we expected these weapons to be more game-breaking than they turned out and making things expensive is easier than making them balanced so...". A lot of people seem to be okay with this philosophy, but it means that not only do they expect you to replace your favorite weapons down the line, but they expect you to put in exponentially more effort to do so. There has to be a better way to reward the time and effort spent playing then to simply force players from one small pool of [point of game]-viable weapons to another small pool of [later point of game]-viable weapons, but so many people are fine with this that I'm wondering if DE would even consider it.

[SmallPaws]

I'm taking that apology with a kilogram of salt.

After everything that's been done over the months, it's hard to fully accept it immediately.

 

The damage is done. While an apology was a start, what reason is there for me to not take it as another smokescreen by DE?

 

 

Do you think DE is smokescreening this? Really now? They're bringing out their mistakes into the open AND giving us an apology. Thanks Sheldon, keep up the good work and learn from this mistake :D. But they are ACTIVELY working for us even though it's only been days since the release, many other game companies would just LEAVE issues unfixed. If you really don't like it go play another terribly supported game.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Everyone complaining is really the type of person who needs instant gratification without being able to enjoy the game properly.

Woooah slow down there buddy. I complain, but I've farmed ALL of my weapons and frames (minus loki) to get to MR 9 (sitting 3.8k off of MR 10).

Point is, you're making an assumption that is clearly false.

 

 

 

Do you think DE is smokescreening this? Really now? They're bringing out their mistakes into the open AND giving us an apology. Thanks Sheldon, keep up the good work and learn from this mistake :D. But they are ACTIVELY working for us even though it's only been days since the release, many other game companies would just LEAVE issues unfixed. If you really don't like it go play another terribly supported game.

words < actions, we need to wait and see what they do before making more judgements right now.

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[SmallPaws]

I also want to mention something in the apology that actually soured me even further. Their rationale for the insane crafting costs wasn't so much "we thought players would be able to gather these materials at a non-soul-crushing pace" as it was "we expected these weapons to be more game-breaking than they turned out and making things expensive is easier than making them balanced so...". A lot of people seem to be okay with this philosophy, but it means that not only do they expect you to replace your favorite weapons down the line, but they expect you to put in exponentially more effort to do so. There has to be a better way to reward the time and effort spent playing then to simply force players from one small pool of [point of game]-viable weapons to another small pool of [later point of game]-viable weapons, but so many people are fine with this that I'm wondering if DE would even consider it.

 

The meta players are really capable of making these hard crafts, and they assumed it to be that way, which is partially true as many meta players have resources beyond that of a typical player. It's just that the majority of the player base isn't too fond of putting out extra effort to reach meta.

[SmallPaws]

Woooah slow down there buddy. I complain, but I've farmed ALL of my weapons and frames (minus loki) to get to MR 9 (sitting 3.8k off of MR 10).

Point is, you're making an assumption that is clearly false.

 

 

 

words < actions, we need to wait and see what they do before making more judgements right now.

 

Then let me ask you, assuming they released no new items but only content, would you have been content on playing your old frames and old weapons or would you have wanted new items?

 

Because putting in a great deal of work is really enjoyable to be, as it is a big accomplishment. I'd much prefer something that'd take a while to craft and gather the resources for than some half-assed farming for some half-assed weapon.

[ZephRG]

Then let me ask you, assuming they released no new items but only content, would you have been content on playing your old frames and old weapons or would you have wanted new items?

 

Because putting in a great deal of work is really enjoyable to be, as it is a big accomplishment. I'd much prefer something that'd take a while to craft and gather the resources for than some half-assed farming for some half-assed weapon.

 

I would love to actually play a fun game and explore new content with the frames and weapons I love than have to grind the same identical missions to replace them with the newest model, yes.

 

It's almost like some people want to actually have fun playing games and not just stare at shiny new weapon models that do the same thing but with different particle effects and bigger numbers.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Then let me ask you, assuming they released no new items but only content, would you have been content on playing your old frames and old weapons or would you have wanted new items?

I would have wanted new items EVENTUALLY, but all they've been putting out are weapons/frames really. And are we talking about no new items since they were in closed beta? Yeah, I would have been fine with "content", whatever you think that means (content includes frames, weapons, etc)

 

Because putting in a great deal of work is really enjoyable to be, as it is a big accomplishment. I'd much prefer something that'd take a while to craft and gather the resources for than some half-assed farming for some half-assed weapon.

It's enjoyable... for awhile. Then it's a grind. When I crafted my soma, I went "Meh, I had all the resources." When I crafted my nekros I went "Well, that was kinda fun, but not off to kiste if I want to speed level, or go do some void missions to try and grind out some of the primes, or something."

 

 

I would love to actually play a fun game and explore new content with the frames and weapons I love than have to grind the same identical missions to replace them with the newest model, yes.

 

It's almost like some people want to actually have fun playing games and not just stare at shiny new weapon models that do the same thing but with different particle effects and bigger numbers.

also this ^

Edited September 20, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[.Monarch]

@Rain_Maker: you have my deepest sympathies however rushing content isn't a good idea for like 2 weeks after update, at least as long as the game is labelled beta. Maybe a ticket to support will bring some recompense.

You all seem to forget that this kind of game is a new experience for DE - they are still learning thus frequent changes of mind are inevitable. I unshakeable believe that they are trying their best. They actually listen to players' feedback and trying hard to meet our expectations, this however spoiled community. Truth to be told is that we, players, are also partially responsible for faulty content as many of us are forcing new content - every time a new update is announced there is an avalanche of threads demanding it ASAP.

The reason I spammed the hell out of my Void Keys is due to several reasons.

 

1) RNG, I was never on the good side of RNG. While most of the people I know already gotten every new Prime stuff, etc etc. I'm still lacking a several items, where no matter what I do, who I run with, I just can't get it. Thus when something isn't dropping for me, I am unable to assume right away that it is the drop table messed up. I would be guessing that it is just my luck that bad, again.

 

2) These sort of problem happened before, when Frost Prime first came out, and other several time related to drop rate and Void. DE said they learned their lesson, and so foolishly I believed. And therefore, once again. I buried my head in and kept my nose to the grinder.

 

3) A competitive side of me does not believe I have such bad luck, even evidence and history proves completely otherwise. I have the urge to kept on spending key after key, because I did not believe I'm just having such bad luck. Very similar to gambling, casino. "I'll roll another dice, I just don't believe I have such S#&amp;&#036;ty luck, I gotta win this round, I'm sure of it."

 

I won't even bother to send support ticket to DE. I'm exhausted, and given hope on this so called RNG system, the big casino of Tenno. What can they do for me? Give me a bunch of T3 Exterminate? And shall I waste 2 more complete days just to try grind the single item I need? I don't want to be labelled as "whinners" who qq about everything. I have a reason to be upset, because my trust was misplaced. And my faith in DE have been diminishing since Frost Prime came out.

 

Not many people offer T3 Exterminate in recruit chat, but try I will, try I need to. I won't, and refuse to spend anymore money on so called RNG Void Key Packs and grinding defense for RNG luck to hope for a key that I need.

 

I even PM Rebecca, told her that. I'm exhausted. Feel free to deduct 200, or 500 platinum from my account. Just give me that damn piece. At the exhaust rate DE has forced on me, how much suffering DE's mistakes has put me through. I'm at the stage where I'm willing to just give up 250-ish platinum just to buy a component. That, is how much I'm frustrated and tired of this RNG bullS#&amp;&#036;.

[ArsVampyre]

Honestly, and I know this is going to cause rage, a lot of problems since Update 10 have been the community's fault, mainly with their lack of patience.

 

Let me explain with one example:

 

The update was big, adding a ton of stuff. I haven't played nearly as much as many people, yet I realized this probably meant something was going to go wrong. So I did the logical thing: not use any of my Void keys or build too many Derelict keys until stuff got fixed. I knew it would take a week or two to fix things, and I was right. One person here complained they wasted a ton of T3 Ext. keys trying to get Dakra because the drop tables were messed up. Your fault, not DE's. The drop tables being messed up is completely DE's fault, you wasting the keys isn't. That's on you. It's logic and common sense. 

 

The grind problem, yeah, that's on them, but they are continuously working on the game, so I'm hoping that will come through. The new Golem isn't even that much of a grind, at all, I did it, now it's going to be even less so. I even had to grind for some of the resources I needed. 

 

I understand that people that have been playing for hundreds of hours are getting tired, but you have to be patient. DE reacts to constructive criticism, but that criticism gets lost among all the rage and that fills the forums. That's the first that needs to go. Maybe then something can get done. They are already working on a new damage system, that's big, and has been asked for a lot. Yes, they make mistakes, but it's an Indie developer trying something new. Hold on, play something else for now if you're completely worn out, but don't give up yet. 

Sorry, but you're wrong.  If no one plays, no one knows there's a problem.  The only reason DE is doing anything is because 1) so many people did it and complained and 2) someone datamined and figured out they'd junked the loot tables.

 

Worse, you're just accepting the explanation that it's simply a problem with having added too many things into the loot tables.  Why?  You know the last time they said that, someone datamined it and Hellfire had something like a 60% chance of dropping, which is why it dropped so often in defense missions.  DE just kept saying it was because they'd added more to the loot tables and that diluted the chances.

 

Dilution only becomes a big issue if you're adding so many things.  To get an item to go from 1% chance to .5% chance, you have to double the number of items in that loot table.  Do you think they added twice the content for those loot tables with this update?  Or do you think they manually adjusted the tables to make certain necessary loot more rare so you'd have to grind/buy platinum?  What does the evidence and logic tell you?

 

Look at that, then look at this apology and tell me they're accepting responsibility.

 

I don't want the platinum or the mutagen mass.  I want them to start publishing their loot tables, so 1) it isn't a mystery what I have to do if I want to achieve something or earn something and 2) people can verify that what's occurring is as intended and 3) so we as a community can give honest and constructive feedback without having to guess at what's going on or getting angry because what they say happened doesn't seem to match the facts of what we can observe.  I'd rather DE just came out and said "Look guys, we need to make more money if we're gonna keep this show going until the PS4 release, so bear with us while we encourage you to buy and spend platinum."  I wouldn't like it, but I'd like it more than feeling like they're trying to trick me into it.  I spent platinum on the vacuum sentinel. I've been considering spending it on things like colors and the scarves (though frankly I think the scarves fit space ninjas about as much as something called 'soul punch' but whatever).  Better an answer I don't agree with than a lie that I'll discover later and both not agree with AND be angry about over the deception.

 

I don't want to see their code, I want to see their loot tables.  Then I can give them an honest and informed opinion, and along with everyone else's opinions, DE can take constructive feedback on it, make changes as they see fit, then publish new loot tables, and we can discuss those.  Maybe people will rage-quit the game over a 1% forma BP chance, but they're still going to rage-quit over it if you deceive them.  The problem is that people who wouldn't have quit over it will for the deception.

 

In all honestly, I was mostly pleased with Update 10.  I'd prefer some things were different, like the void derelict keys being permanent rather than single-use, but that's beside the point.  I can accept unintended consequences in things like the Stamina change or overinflated material costs for void derelict keys and the like. What I can't accept is being told "It's just loot table dilution" and then discovering it can't be loot table dilution and then having someone continue to say it is, even after the evidence shows it's not.

 

If this really IS loot table dilution, it'd be fairly easy to explain why.  For example, "we added 20 items, but 15 of them went into the 'rare' slot on the table for this mission, and there were only 15 items in the 'rare' slot before, so it halved the chances of getting an item out of the 'rare' slot"  That makes sense.  Hell, maybe that's what happened.  But without explanation or evidence, it doesn't LOOK like that's what happened, so I'm not buying.

[ThePresident777]

The apology is nice, but, if they give us a bunch of fun game modes, I'll give them $50USD.

[Fiia]

Nothing will fix all the T3 Exterminate keys I wasted on attempting on Dakra Blade.

This is the feeling I have with all the keys I used trying to find the system of Mag Prime, and finally gave up about a couple dozen keys wasted.

[Vilemyre]

I don't want the items as an apology. I just want the issues to be fixed and this mess to be forgotten.

 

I've wasted enough keys and it actually put me off playing for awhile.

[LegacyOfLamb]

What the hell? give DE a break, they know what they did wrong, instead of making them feel worse just accept the fact that they tried to make it up to us (key word "tried") but that's never good enough for any of you is it as said by someone above (Para phrased) What do you expect, everything on a silver platter?

[Vilemyre]

What the hell? give DE a break, they know what they did wrong, instead of making them feel worse just accept the fact that they tried to make it up to us (key word "tried") but that's never good enough for any of you is it as said by someone above (Para phrased) What do you expect, everything on a silver platter?

No I expect the main reason why people are angry to be resolved. Not a cover-up or some sugar to sweeten things. Don't use that "silver platter" excuse as a means to make a point. The drops were broken. An item of apology is the least of my concerns. I just want the issues to be fixed and forgotten.

 

And apology is fine. Being given items in favor of loyalty instead of redeeming by fixing the issues which upset the community however, is not.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Blk_Mage

[LegacyOfLamb]

No I expect the main reason why people are angry to be resolved. Not a cover-up or some sugar to sweeten things.

Hey, there is no "main reason" why everyone is upset it is a mix of several different things that add to the rage, you try listening to god knows how many angry Warframe players there are right now, and try to get all the problems solved in a couple of hot-fixes 

[Vilemyre]

Hey, there is no "main reason" why everyone is upset it is a mix of several different things that add to the rage, you try listening to god knows how many angry Warframe players there are right now, and try to get all the problems solved in a couple of hot-fixes 

My apology let correct that. "main reasons" there we go. Forgot that there was more than one issue at hand. However that doesn't make it any better that these issues were ignored until now.

 

And right now I am talking about the two major things which actually caused a lot of complaints from the community. I just want then done with, not being given items as a means to make myself play again.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Blk_Mage

[LegacyOfLamb]

*looks at grandmaster status*

[KvotheTheArcane1]

*looks at grandmaster status*

What's that got to do with anything?

[Vilemyre]

What's that got to do with anything?

I'm curious too. What does that have to do with anything, Lamb?

 

I hope you are not trying to imply people who spend £100+ on this game for a forum badge instantly know more than anyone else.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Blk_Mage

[LegacyOfLamb]

I'm curious too. What does that have to do with anything, Lamb?

 

I hope you are not trying to imply people who spend £100+ on this game for a forum badge instantly know more than anyone else.

Oh no, you misunderstand I just find it funny that after all this money you give to DE, it gives you the right to complain the most

 

not that, that is a bad thing of course. I too am frustrated at times with the content DE gives us most of the time but you don't seem to see that DE is trying to please the community and let us know that it will get better eventually

[Vilemyre]

Oh no, you misunderstand I just find it funny that after all this money you give to DE, it gives you the right to complain the most

 

not that, that is a bad thing of course. I too am frustrated at times with the content DE gives us most of the time but you don't seem to see that DE is trying to please the community and let us know that it will get better eventually

I'm not a grand master though. And the money I gave was before the was becoming a broken mess. See there is a thing called the past and its not always the same as the present.

 

I have a right to complain as equally as much as everyone else. It doesn't matter how much I spent. There is people who don't have founders who complain about issues in this game as much as I do so I suggest you stop using that as a way to make a point, it doesn't make one at all.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Blk_Mage

[LegacyOfLamb]

I'm not a grand master though. And the money I gave was before the was becoming a broken mess. See there is a thing called the past and its not always the same as the present.

 

I have a right to complain as equally as much as everyone else. It doesn't matter how much I spent. There is people who don't have founders who complain about issues in this game as much as I do so I suggest you stop using that as a way to make a point, it doesn't make one at all.

You sir have a very firm grasp of the obvious, but my mistake the Grand master and Master symbol look the same to me.

[Vilemyre]

You sir have a very firm grasp of the obvious, but my mistake the Grand master and Master symbol look the same to me.

Well maybe you should look at that thick. bold text next to it that says "Master".

[Fiia]

You sir have a very firm grasp of the obvious, but my mistake the Grand master and Master symbol look the same to me.

This reminds of the old saying, "Do you ride the bus to school, or take your lunch".