I Give Up, Some Does More Ap Dps Than Even Flux

[Patzer]

READ THIS FIRST! If you think I'm implying X or Y weapon is best in game then stop thinking. Here is numbers, math and data, use it as a tool, make your own decisions and use what you like, thanks.

 

Please look at the table before you reply! This is AP DPS Vs. AP DPS, armor does not affect these portions of either weapons DPS because it is armor piercing portion of their DPS

 

Refined bit my DPS calculation sheet. Soma AP mod DPS > Flux AP mod dps+base damage dps (serrated blade)

 

 

Edit:

DAMAGE REWORK / ARMOR 2.0: Please tell me since this came up too, how do you make two weapons of same type, weapon x with 1 dps to be on par with weapon y with 2 dps with universal armor/damage rework without touching stats of these weapons? Seems like some assume that rework will magically fix everything. I'm just trying to bring attention to these things while providing mathematical proof, F*** me right?

 

Edit2:

Bonus! Damages with reload, I'm bit unsure about ammo consumption values though and maybe I should do build for Flux and Synapse that does not have Shred. (I used 1 as multiplier for those since afaik they don't benefit from fire rate bonuses)

 

Red is AP DPS

Green is raw DPS

 

 

LATEST EDIT: Above is sheet that has one fault in reload dps section, forgot to sum one value within one formula. Below is new fixed formulas using same parameters as GottFaust, thanks for feedback btw. Ended in exactly same results too! FREAKING VIRTUAL SPACE GUN SCIENCE *@##$ES!

 

Edited September 27, 2013 by Patzer

[Althix]

so? what is your point?

[peppychankawaii]

But Soma doesn't shoot fancy lasers.

 

Sticking to Flux.

[Saenol]

Everyone already knew this.

[GottFaust]

You aren't factoring reloads or magazine size in there.

Also: wait until you see the Synapse...

[tigrex]

so? what is your point?

maybe that de gave us again a extremly unbalanced weapon like the throwing knifes?

[Aure7]

so? what is your point?

that weapon balance is just so terrible it hurts my brain.

[Althix]

maybe that de gave us again a extremly unbalanced weapon like the throwing knifes?

maybe you just wait for new damage system and only after that complain and cry all over the forums?

[Mainabi]

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

[FunkDoctaSpock]

maybe that de gave us again a extremly unbalanced weapon like the throwing knifes?

Still waiting for any kind of balance for those actually ... Makes me fear the worst for the Soma. They did nerf my gremlins' crit rate though ... Why DE ??? WHYYYYY!?!  Soma = easy to get = no nerf  vs Gremlins = hard to get = nerf   =(

[Saenol]

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

 

The chart shows that Soma does more AP DPS than Flux does total DPS.

 

Against an enemy with infinitely strong armor, Soma still out damages Flux.

[darksithis002]

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

this

[Storchenbein]

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

Soma does loose a lot of it's damage, but he calculated the Armor Piercing damage from the mod on the Soma. The mod will always do the full damage which is more than a Flux's damage and armor piercing mod combined.

[Althix]

Seira i think it is also beside the point, soma is bullet type weapon so it is obvious that i will suck against armor.

 

another thing what i see is how weapons will looks like and what parameter will dictate how weapon is good or bad.

 

in next system crit chance will be a major stat in a weapon, so i belive each and very gun and melee will receive significant boost on crit chance.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Althix

[Mainabi]

The chart shows that Soma does more AP DPS than Flux does total DPS.

 

Against an enemy with infinitely strong armor, Soma still out damages Flux.

doesn't ap kicks in after the base value got calculated on the enemy? so let's say bullet deals 50(100 base) dmg on enemy A, the AP dmg only deals only .6x50 = 30ap dmg? or does it 60ap dmg now?

 

Soma does loose a lot of it's damage, but he calculated the Armor Piercing damage from the mod on the Soma. The mod will always do the full damage which is more than a Flux's damage and armor piercing mod combined.

ah good to know that clears things up

Edited September 23, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Patzer]

You aren't factoring reloads or magazine size in there.

Also: wait until you see the Synapse...

 

Synapse was even worse due base damage being lightning. I agree that I don't factor reloads or clip sizes but atleast this should give some aproximation for relation between different weapons.

 

maybe you just wait for new damage system and only after that complain and cry all over the forums?

 

And how does this affect? Soma still has more raw dps than any other rifle? After armor rework it's still highest DPS rifle. It might even get more unbalanced since majority of Somas dps comes from non-armor ignoring sources. (assuming they reduce effectiveness of armor)

 

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

 

Armor reduces Soma's armor piercing portion of it's dps? Because AP dps of Soma was the thing I was comparing to fluc AP DPS portion.

[FunkDoctaSpock]

maybe you just wait for new damage system and only after that complain and cry all over the forums?

Maybe you should wait for it to be an actual reality before you post childish and poorly phrased comments ?

[tigrex]

maybe you just wait for new damage system and only after that complain and cry all over the forums?

so im whining? ok thats new

[Saenol]

Seira i think it is also beside the point, soma is bullet type weapon so it is obvious that i will suck against armor.

 

Obvious it will suck against armor?

 

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

 

AP damage works against armor and Soma's damage from ONLY Percing Hit is incredible. It's more effective against armor than almost any primary, including the Flux Rifle.

 

Again, even if Soma's base damage is reduced to ZERO from huge armor, it's still going to do assloads of AP damage from Pericing Hit.

[FunkDoctaSpock]

so im whining? ok thats new

I guess some people just mistake valid feedback for whining when it disagrees with their point of view ...

[Rallinious]

I don't rly understand that picture, it simply shows against 0 armor what if the enemy has 100 armor? flux will still do the same dmg while soma will lose lots of dps because of the armor

 

pretty much this, your table seems to assume that the enemy in question as 0 armor, far as I'm aware only a few enemy types have 0, the rest which AP would matter Flux still wins out, and before you say it, I saw that the Flux's AP + base was lower, however most Flux builds will still be high after factoring in elemental while Soma will likely only have AP unless you give up Speed trigger/Shred and/or Ammo mutation/Fast Hands.

 

Edit: wrote this up before those above me posted.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Rallinious

[ChaoticVice777]

I had my suspicions regarding this, but that's seriously messed up. Also:

 

pretty much this, your table seems to assume that the enemy in question as 0 armor, far as I'm aware only a few enemy types have 0, the rest which AP would matter Flux still wins out, and before you say it, I saw that the Flux's AP + base was lower, however most Flux builds will still be high after factoring in elemental while Soma will likely only have AP unless you give up Speed trigger/Shred and/or Ammo mutation/Fast Hands.

 

Obvious it will suck against armor?

 

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

 

AP damage works against armor and Soma's damage from ONLY Percing Hit is incredible. It's more effective against armor than almost any primary, including the Flux Rifle.

 

Again, even if Soma's base damage is reduced to ZERO from huge armor, it's still going to do assloads of AP damage from Pericing Hit.

Edited September 23, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[Saenol]

doesn't ap kicks in after the base value got calculated on the enemy? so let's say bullet deals 50(100 base) dmg on enemy A, the AP dmg only deals only .6x50 = 30ap dmg? or does it 60ap dmg now?

 

It's totally separate, and as far as I know, always has been.

 

When I use my Soma against rank 130+ Ancients, and not shooting at a weak point, I'm doing about 9 Bullet damage per hit, but ~227 AP damage...per hit.

 

pretty much this, your table seems to assume that the enemy in question as 0 armor, far as I'm aware only a few enemy types have 0, the rest which AP would matter Flux still wins out, and before you say it, I saw that the Flux's AP + base was lower, however most Flux builds will still be high after factoring in elemental while Soma will likely only have AP unless you give up Speed trigger/Shred and/or Ammo mutation/Fast Hands.

 

You did not read the table or the thread.

 

Soma will out damage Flux Rifle, even if the target has 1,000,000,000,000 armor.

 

Rainbow builds don't help Flux much, because armor applies to pretty much all elements other than AP and what the target is specifically weak against.

 

By the time Soma's bullet damage is rendered ineffective, the enemy can no longer taste the rainbow either.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Saenol

[Mainabi]

It's totally separate, and as far as I know, always has been.

 

When I use my Soma against rank 130+ Ancients, and not shooting at a weak point, I'm doing about 9 Bullet damage per hit, but ~227 AP damage...per hit.

 

 

yep thanks

 

I usually decide my weapons mainly on feel, dps comes on second, if it feels strong (because of takakatakaka takakataka and down, I keep it)

[ChaoticVice777]

It's totally separate, and as far as I know, always has been.

 

When I use my Soma against rank 130+ Ancients, and not shooting at a weak point, I'm doing about 9 Bullet damage per hit, but ~227 AP damage...per hit.

 

You did not read the table or the thread.

 

Soma will out damage Flux Rifle, even if the target has 1,000,000,000,000 armor.

 

Essentially, the only "balancing" factors to the Soma is the low damage (required critical build) and the high ammo consumption (Ammo Mutation). And here, I thought the Flux was on the higher side of the rifle tiers while maintaining a sense of balance.