Update 6-10 How Warframe Has Changed

[General_Krull]

Snip

From what I understand they both have some questionable opinions on the direction the game should be taking. You make it sound like Scott is doing everything on his own, it's simply not true.

 

I agree with the chat interface and other social things so that's that.

 

I thought you meant you meant nightmare modes in general as in map nodes. Yes the mutators are random, I think it kind of adds to the challenge but there should be a way to see the mutator beforehand. 

 

For the Void keys, I guess we have to agree to disagree on this. How else would you get access to "endgame" areas. But there should be more ways of getting keys, which is probably what I said in my first reply.

 

I still don't understand what you're asking, you mean you want to choose mission difficulty? Yes I think more options for players is always a good thing. And maybe they add more challenging areas in the future. Who knows?

 

Well in their defense they changed the drop rates back. On the other hand it seemed like it took a dataminer to do it. 

 

Yeah I remember them saying there's more mission types coming with more variety hopefully. Right now it's repetitive.

 

There are many people playing warframe and you can't please them all, it's impossible. More options is always good in my opinion but each option shouldn't take away from others.

[Lord_zasca]

So Lord_zasca contacted me with some questions and rather than wall of texting it, I made a video response.

NOTE: Slightly PG-13 in language rating, so be aware.

EDIT: Imbedding seems to be jacked right now.

Direct link:

Remember, this is just my observations and responses to the given questions. Opinions are a personal thing.

My only advice is this...

BE PATIENT.

Thanks for the response. didnt think it would be a video but whatever. im wating for one more response from someone before the next one comes. if he does not respond in 10 hours il do the update anyway

[Lord_zasca]

wating on 1 person for next update

Edited October 5, 2013 by Lord_zasca

[ThePresident777]

 

I thought you meant you meant nightmare modes in general as in map nodes. Yes the mutators are random, I think it kind of adds to the challenge but there should be a way to see the mutator beforehand.

I don't have a problem with random Nightmare Mode.  I have a problem with it being the only "choice" in Nightmare Modes.

 

For the Void keys, I guess we have to agree to disagree on this. How else would you get access to "endgame" areas. But there should be more ways of getting keys, which is probably what I said in my first reply.

 

How else to access end game?  Easy, unlock the entire solar system, then you can host void missions freely.

 

Voids are not end game anyway.  There is no end game.  You just keep getting higher level enemies with each wave.

 

I still don't understand what you're asking, you mean you want to choose mission difficulty? Yes I think more options for players is always a good thing. And maybe they add more challenging areas in the future. Who knows?

I'm not being cryptic here.  I specified that there should be missions where the level starts at 100, 125, 150, etc.

 

They could be more locations on the solar system or alerts.

 

Well in their defense they changed the drop rates back. On the other hand it seemed like it took a dataminer to do it.

Yeah, I find that kinda weird.  It does not reflect well on them when players have to jump through hoops like this and they make data mining into an offense.  Smells like cover up to me.

 

Yeah I remember them saying there's more mission types coming with more variety hopefully. Right now it's repetitive.

 

I hope it works.  But, they really need to think outside the box on this.  With the exception of no shields + energy drain nightmare mode, none of the missions really play differently.  Some missions take longer.  Some missions require less travel.  But, there is nothing really outside the box about most of the missions.  You can take your favorite weapons and warframe and mods to any mission except maybe no shields + energy drain nightmare mode and just do the same thing in the same way.  It's like the arsenal is a wardrobe full of a lot of old cloths.

 

And, if they're going to lock the new stuff behind various walls, barriers, obstacles, it's just going to cause rage.

 

 

There are many people playing warframe and you can't please them all, it's impossible. More options is always good in my opinion but each option shouldn't take away from others.

 

I don't know what you mean by options taking away from each other.  Some people hate PvP and others love it, for example.  You're not taking anything away from the PvP hater by having PvP.  The ones who lose out from not having PvP are the people who love or like it.

 

The fact is that the player base is always split.  The first split is between those that want to play the game and those that don't.

 

Every where you look, you see people fighting over things.  You see people who want excess and people who want austerity, and everybody else, the moderates.

 

Nightmare Mode fits the role of austerity but it's in need of further developement.  That's where the stamina nerf should have gone, not in the normal game mode, especially after advertising for months that Warframe is about movement and ninjas.  I never saw Ninjas run out of breath so fast.

 

I think that nerfs should go into nightmare modes and buffs into excess modes.  The full nerf goes into nightmare mode and the full buff goes into excess mode.  Moderate, or normal mode, gets half the nerf or buff.  So, if a dev cuts the stamina regen in half, normal modes get only a quarter cut.  Then another dev can increase the stamina regen +50% which affects normal mode only as +25%.  Then the stamina nerf and buff cancel out in normal mode but everybody now has two new extremes they can play with, one in nightmare mode, another in excess mode.

Edited October 6, 2013 by jaywalker
removed insulting rhetoric

[General_Krull]

 

I don't have a problem with random Nightmare Mode.  I have a problem with it being the only "choice" in Nightmare Modes.

 

What do you mean "it" being only "choice" in nightmare modes? You want more mutators? Or more challenging content that is not nightmare? 

 

How else to access end game?  Easy, unlock the entire solar system, then you can host void missions freely.

 

Voids are not end game anyway.  There is no end game.  You just keep getting higher level enemies with each wave.

There is no endgame, true. But I still think Void missions are like hidden or special area which require more effort to get in to. But there should be more ways to get keys or in void. Same for derelict. Like random alerts in Void or Derelicts?

 

 

I'm not being cryptic here.  I specified that there should be missions where the level starts at 100, 125, 150, etc.

 

They could be more locations on the solar system or alerts.

I get it, yeah more options for players. It would be better if they made new locations rather than alerts. That way we can choose when to challenge ourselves.

 

Yeah, I find that kinda weird.  It does not reflect well on them when players have to jump through hoops like this and they make data mining into an offense.  Smells like cover up to me.

Well we can't know for sure and I don't like witch hunts in general. What's done is done, they rectified their mistake which is good. It would have been better if they hadn't messed up in the first place. And they can make data mining an offense all they want, it doesn't stop people from doing it.

 

I hope it works.  But, they really need to think outside the box on this.  With the exception of no shields + energy drain nightmare mode, none of the missions really play differently.  Some missions take longer.  Some missions require less travel.  But, there is nothing really outside the box about most of the missions.  You can take your favorite weapons and warframe and mods to any mission except maybe no shields + energy drain nightmare mode and just do the same thing in the same way.  It's like the arsenal is a wardrobe full of a lot of old cloths.

 

And, if they're going to lock the new stuff behind various walls, barriers, obstacles, it's just going to cause rage.

Well I think all warframes should be viable in all missions. They just handle things differently, and yes I hope they figure out a way to make them interesting WITHOUT locking them behind grind walls. They could experiment with different types of team work relying things like having one person pull a cart or carry something which makes them unable to defend themselves while others have to clear the path. 

Or if survival was combination of raid and what we have now, you have to collect stuff while lifesupport gradually drops and you can either risk getting bigger reward or play it safe and leave early.

 

I don't know what you mean by options taking away from each other.  Some people hate PvP and others love it, for example.  You're not taking anything away from the PvP hater by having PvP.  The ones who lose out from not having PvP are the people who love or like it.

 

The fact is that the player base is always split.  The first split is between those that want to play the game and those that don't.

 

Every where you look, you see people fighting over things.  You see people who want excess and people who want austerity, and everybody else, the moderates.

 

Nightmare Mode fits the role of austerity but it's in need of further developement.  That's where the stamina nerf should have gone, not in the normal game mode, especially after advertising for months that Warframe is about movement and ninjas.  I never saw Ninjas run out of breath so fast.

 

I think that nerfs should go into nightmare modes and buffs into excess modes.  The full nerf goes into nightmare mode and the full buff goes into excess mode.  Moderate, or normal mode, gets half the nerf or buff.  So, if a dev cuts the stamina regen in half, normal modes get only a quarter cut.  Then another dev can increase the stamina regen +50% which affects normal mode only as +25%.  Then the stamina nerf and buff cancel out in normal mode but everybody now has two new extremes they can play with, one in nightmare mode, another in excess mode.

I mean if they focus more on PVP they focus less on PVE and so on. They need to find a balance between them. And I think people who play the game and people who don't isn't a good example on playerbase splitting. Why would DE cater to people not playing?

Better example would be veterans and beginners. Right now DE is focusing on making things more difficult for veterans and in process make things nearly impossible for beginners. They reduced the amount of credits you get from void while increasing the prices of items. So veterans are slightly annoyed and beginners are completely stumped.

They should have made higher rank stuff more expensive while leaving credit sources alone.

 

And I don't know what you're suggesting there in the end. Different modes for different people? Wouldn't that split the playerbase even more? And increase DEs workload? 

 

I personally think they should change stamina and movement so jumping, melee, sprinting and wallrunning wouldn't take stamina but blocking and dodging would. That would increase mobility and give people reasons to use block and dodge. And it would be cool if blocking blocks all damage and dodges would have invincibility frames so there would be a point to doing those maneuvers.

Edited October 6, 2013 by jaywalker
Removed insulting rhetoric

[W4RM4CHIN3]

What went wrong is that they went Open Beta too fast, and made a deal with the PS4 guys too fast. Warframe was NOT ready yet, there were so many things that needed to be worked on, yet making the PS4 deal and setting an official release deadline made them panic to rush out content, resulting in increasingly poorly thought out decisions and buggy content. Open Beta got a surge of new players into the game, and it also increased revenue, but it also resulted in more players who are more critical and less forgiving of DE. People expect more from an Open Beta than a Closed Beta afterall, as it's supposed to be a stage when the game is already presentable. Not only that, but with a much larger community also brings more noise and garbage posts on the forums, making it harder for DE to discern actually valid feedback, and picking out the good suggestions from the bad ones. I suppose it also gave DE a bit of a power rush to the head, making them more stubborn and arrogant, thus listening to players less and less.

 

All this is just a theory i came up with off the top of my head of course. Either way, what ISN'T a theory is that DE is making increasingly large amounts of mistakes, and it appears they have lost the direction that they once followed, making the game suffer as a result. The PS4 launch release is coming, DE is running out of time to pick up their mess. Armor 2.0 will be the deciding factor for this game's life or death. All we can do is give them feedback, hope they listen, and pray DE returns to their former selves.

 

Good points. Still believe in them, but i think the PS4 Release rush got to them. They have almost one month to make this game presentable for PS4, and i assume out of beta. They need to play the game from the players viewpoint then they can see what makes sense or not. 

[WildJuice]

I remember the old days of CB. It was so frikken fun...only because the game had potential. Now it's like we're clearly seeing that it's being wasted.

[Lord_zasca]

Guys be careful with what you say im not saying you should turn down debating and coming up with ways to help de and what new continent needs to come im just saying......... (comment 29 and 30 edit by jaywalker) WHERE BEING WATCHED!

[lronPatriot]

Guys be careful with what you say im not saying you should turn down debating and coming up with ways to help de and what new continent needs to come im just saying......... (comment 29 and 30 edit by jaywalker) WHERE BEING WATCHED!

 

Not watched babysitted. 

[ThePresident777]

Not watched babysitted. 

 

Jay Walker is stalking me.

[LittleReshiram]

Guys be careful with what you say im not saying you should turn down debating and coming up with ways to help de and what new continent needs to come im just saying......... (comment 29 and 30 edit by jaywalker) WHERE BEING WATCHED!

 

Well, reasonable.

 

If nice words we should give, nice words we will give.

I'm not promising anything, though. Just trying.

[ThePresident777]

What do you mean "it" being only "choice" in nightmare modes? You want more mutators? Or more challenging content that is not nightmare?

 

I want to be able to see and select which Nightmare Mode challenge I want to play like an alert or any other mission.

 

 

 There is no endgame, true. But I still think Void missions are like hidden or special area which require more effort to get in to. But there should be more ways to get keys or in void. Same for derelict. Like random alerts in Void or Derelicts?

 

 

The keys could be craftable.  But only one level of crafting not 2 like in Derelicts.

 

But it's still a hassle to put together a team by spamming recruitment chat with 100 other people or running down your friends list in primitive chat.

 

That's the reason why I rarely play voids or derelicts.  I just run alerts and the solar system.

 

 I get it, yeah more options for players. It would be better if they made new locations rather than alerts. That way we can choose when to challenge ourselves. 

 

They can put one nightmare mode and one level 100+ mission on alert every 15 minutes.  That should be enough for a continuous stream of them.  It's easier than reworking the solar system and buys them time to rework the solar system.  Remember the reason that Lephantis is in derelicts is because he is waiting for a home in the solar system.

 

 

 Well we can't know for sure and I don't like witch hunts in general. What's done is done, they rectified their mistake which is good. It would have been better if they hadn't messed up in the first place. And they can make data mining an offense all they want, it doesn't stop people from doing it.

 

It does not stop people from data mining but it stops people from sharing information on these forums.  The funny thing is that we're beta testers.  Yet we can get banned for testing.

 

 

Well I think all warframes should be viable in all missions. They just handle things differently, and yes I hope they figure out a way to make them interesting WITHOUT locking them behind grind walls. They could experiment with different types of team work relying things like having one person pull a cart or carry something which makes them unable to defend themselves while others have to clear the path. 

Or if survival was combination of raid and what we have now, you have to collect stuff while lifesupport gradually drops and you can either risk getting bigger reward or play it safe and leave early. 

 

Maybe in normal mode.  But, extreme modes like excess and austerity should be anything goes.

 

The game is being put together via trial and error.  The developers need freedom to create and try ideas.  There has to be a way to manage that process without half the player base erupting in revolt and storming out.  That is one of the merits of my idea for excess, normal, and austerity modes.

 

 

I mean if they focus more on PVP they focus less on PVE and so on. They need to find a balance between them. And I think people who play the game and people who don't isn't a good example on playerbase splitting. Why would DE cater to people not playing?

Better example would be veterans and beginners. Right now DE is focusing on making things more difficult for veterans and in process make things nearly impossible for beginners. They reduced the amount of credits you get from void while increasing the prices of items. So veterans are slightly annoyed and beginners are completely stumped.

They should have made higher rank stuff more expensive while leaving credit sources alone.

 

And I don't know what you're suggesting there in the end. Different modes for different people? Wouldn't that split the playerbase even more? And increase DEs workload? 

 

 

DE should cater to people who don't play Warframe so that they will play Warframe.  It's what other successful businesses do.  Only in the video gaming industry do you see such one size fits all thinking.  The funny thing is that games like Warframe try to sell items individually or in package deals like a retail store would yet they don't try to attract a variety of players like a retail store would try to attract a variety of customers.

 

Every time DE makes a change they risk losing players.  If they don't keep the game fresh, they risk losing players.

 

So, yes, people who don't play Warframe are worth thinking about.

 

I personally think they should change stamina and movement so jumping, melee, sprinting and wallrunning wouldn't take stamina but blocking and dodging would. That would increase mobility and give people reasons to use block and dodge. And it would be cool if blocking blocks all damage and dodges would have invincibility frames so there would be a point to doing those maneuvers.

 

I think they should get rid of stamina all together.  DE wants to nerf it.  You want something in between.  There we have it:  Excess, Moderation, Austerity.

[Lord_zasca]

Update is out have a look at main thread :)

[General_Krull]

I want to be able to see and select which Nightmare Mode challenge I want to play like an alert or any other mission.

 

Like it decides which node goes in nightmare and it has a preset mutator? Like lets say Fossa is on nightmare and it has vampire and low gravity. And it has those mutators for the duration it is on nightmare? If that's what you mean I'm diggin' it.

 

The keys could be craftable.  But only one level of crafting not 2 like in Derelicts.

 

But it's still a hassle to put together a team by spamming recruitment chat with 100 other people or running down your friends list in primitive chat.

 

That's the reason why I rarely play voids or derelicts.  I just run alerts and the solar system.

 

Yes,  I agree. They really need to improve the matchmaking system. Didn't they just fix the "have to be in friendslist to join in someone elses void" thing? Still needs improving but it's a step in the right direction.

 

 

They can put one nightmare mode and one level 100+ mission on alert every 15 minutes.  That should be enough for a continuous stream of them.  It's easier than reworking the solar system and buys them time to rework the solar system.  Remember the reason that Lephantis is in derelicts is because he is waiting for a home in the solar system.

But as it is 100+ level alerts and nightmare only show up on Eris, Pluto and maybe Ceres. They will have to add more areas later. And if they put alerts out more often they better include a way to do the normal mission without doing the alert. And for Elephant I did not know that,

 

It does not stop people from data mining but it stops people from sharing information on these forums.  The funny thing is that we're beta testers.  Yet we can get banned for testing.

I don't think actual dataminers post here, and if they do they don't exactly spread it around. It's usually just some random people spreading links. Datamining isn't exactly testing but I agree it shouldn't be bannable. Unless you're referring to that guy who did the rage nightmare survival thing which probably was anticheat detect thing, as there was no cheating going on. I hope they unbanned him.

 

Maybe in normal mode.  But, extreme modes like excess and austerity should be anything goes.

 

The game is being put together via trial and error.  The developers need freedom to create and try ideas.  There has to be a way to manage that process without half the player base erupting in revolt and storming out.  That is one of the merits of my idea for excess, normal, and austerity modes.

I think they should rework frame abilities so all of them are viable in all missions. High level or not. 

What would be better if they had a public test server where they roll out changes first and let some volunteers do testing for them. It would reduce the workload by a lot. And I think the developers do have freedom to create and try ideas which results in game being put together with trial and error. There should be a clear direction for them.

 

DE should cater to people who don't play Warframe so that they will play Warframe.  It's what other successful businesses do.  Only in the video gaming industry do you see such one size fits all thinking.  The funny thing is that games like Warframe try to sell items individually or in package deals like a retail store would yet they don't try to attract a variety of players like a retail store would try to attract a variety of customers.

 

Every time DE makes a change they risk losing players.  If they don't keep the game fresh, they risk losing players.

 

So, yes, people who don't play Warframe are worth thinking about.

That's a given, they need more players but they need to attract new players in a way that doesn't anger or hurt the existing playerbase. That kind of thing happens a lot too. But as it is now the game is beginner unfriendly and that's a bigger hinderance than one might think. New players don't stay if they hit a wall as early as earth.

 

It's pretty obvious they risk losing players with every change and decision they make. And sometimes they lose players even if they do things perfectly, it's normal. People get bored and move on to other games or they simply don't have time to play. All the more reason to make the game more newbie friendly so new blood keeps pumping in.

 

I think they should get rid of stamina all together.  DE wants to nerf it.  You want something in between.  There we have it:  Excess, Moderation, Austerity.

How would that work? Removing stamina I mean. Would the mobility stay the same as it is only at no cost?

[LittleReshiram]

How would that work? Removing stamina I mean. Would the mobility stay the same as it is only at no cost?

 

Yes. Sprint speed and everything.

If you think that isn't balanced, well look it this way.

1. No matter how much stamina you have, you won't be able to scale 2 meters tall wall if your frame has lower than 1.0 sprint speed.

2. No matter how much stamina you have, you won't be able to do a faster melee combo or anything.

3. No matter how much stamina you have, you won't be able to parry up-to 50% of damage from anything.

I don't know about you, but. IF the stamina system as it is never rewards us big enough to make it meaningful, why force us to pet it and keep it in?

Just remove it.

[ThePresident777]

Like it decides which node goes in nightmare and it has a preset mutator? Like lets say Fossa is on nightmare and it has vampire and low gravity. And it has those mutators for the duration it is on nightmare? If that's what you mean I'm diggin' it.

Yes, like any other mission, it should display all the missions info, including which challenge it has set.  It's alright by me if some of the nightmare mode challenges are chosen randomly and you have no idea which challenge will be in effect when you play the mission.  My problem is that all the challenges are random so it's impossible to get the challenge you want directly.  Some of them should be set for a while instead of reset every time you play it.

 

Yes,  I agree. They really need to improve the matchmaking system. Didn't they just fix the "have to be in friendslist to join in someone elses void" thing? Still needs improving but it's a step in the right direction.

I don't know.  I'll have to try that.

 

But as it is 100+ level alerts and nightmare only show up on Eris, Pluto and maybe Ceres. They will have to add more areas later. And if they put alerts out more often they better include a way to do the normal mission without doing the alert. And for Elephant I did not know that,

 

Ah, yes, some planets do have a few locations and some have a lot.

 

Then maybe three new locations, one for each faction that hosts level 125+ missions?  Every fifteen minutes the starting level increases:  125, 150, 175, 200.

 

 

I think they should rework frame abilities so all of them are viable in all missions. High level or not. 

What would be better if they had a public test server where they roll out changes first and let some volunteers do testing for them. It would reduce the workload by a lot. And I think the developers do have freedom to create and try ideas which results in game being put together with trial and error. There should be a clear direction for them.

 

If they had 50 good missions and each Warframe was really good at 5 of them, we would have a ton more variety then what we have now.  And, there would not be the problem of having to be perfect and there would be room to accommodate a lot of different views.

If they have a test server with volunteers, then they take advice from the volunteers which blows up in DE's face because the volunteers think only of their own opinions which are not representative of a super majority.

 

Yes, then they drop  Stamina Nerf bomb and the player base explodes.  If they had contained the nerf to nightmare mode, there would have been no eruption.  So, the process of trial and error needs to be managed via a mechanism.

 

 

 

I don't think actual dataminers post here, and if they do they don't exactly spread it around. It's usually just some random people spreading links. Datamining isn't exactly testing but I agree it shouldn't be bannable. Unless you're referring to that guy who did the rage nightmare survival thing which probably was anticheat detect thing, as there was no cheating going on. I hope they unbanned him.

 

Yes, if data miners post here then they risk getting banned.  But without the data miners, how do we know how the game works?  DE is in no hurry to tell us.  It took data mining to prove to them that their drop tables were not what they said they were.  Why didn't DE do the data mining themselves instead of quickly denying the problem?

 

 

That's a given, they need more players but they need to attract new players in a way that doesn't anger or hurt the existing playerbase. That kind of thing happens a lot too. But as it is now the game is beginner unfriendly and that's a bigger hinderance than one might think. New players don't stay if they hit a wall as early as earth.

I agree, I can see from where I sit at 562 hours play time that new accounts will have it rough.

 

 

That's a given, they need more players but they need to attract new players in a way that doesn't anger or hurt the existing playerbase. That kind of thing happens a lot too. But as it is now the game is beginner unfriendly and that's a bigger hinderance than one might think. New players don't stay if they hit a wall as early as earth.

 

It's pretty obvious they risk losing players with every change and decision they make. And sometimes they lose players even if they do things perfectly, it's normal. People get bored and move on to other games or they simply don't have time to play. All the more reason to make the game more newbie friendly so new blood keeps pumping in.

 

I agree.  That's why I think DE needs to conceptualize the game as having three categories:  Excess, Moderation, Austerity.  Or call them something else: Buff, Normal, Nerf.  Or, Heaven, Purgatory, Hell.  Or, Dreams, Wake, Nightmares.  Or, Good Luck, Medium Luck, Bad Luck.  ...................

 

How would that work? Removing stamina I mean. Would the mobility stay the same as it is only at no cost?

 

I was not clear.  I mean that there should be a mode with zero stamina drain just like Stamina Nerf should have been a nightmare mode.  There are plenty of peopel that don't care for stamina drain at all.

 

[Lord_zasca]

Asking some more people for more information

[Lord_zasca]

very sorry guys. ive been away and posting on my phone so i havnt been able to write a long peice. however i promise within 2 weeks a new edit will be out focusing on trading, u11 and 2 interveiws

[Darkmoone1]

 

I like it when they actually gave us meaningful fixes, instead of "OH HEY WE HAVE THIS STUPID CORE SYSTEM WE CAN'T FIX! HAVE THIS @(*()$ MOD TO FIX IT!"

I like it when they gave us lots of game-changing, YET VERY FRIENDLY and not alienating for new or old players.

 

I honestly like that they did hundreds of fixes to Rhino, just for the sake of making him viable.

Hell, they even went as far as FUSING 2 OF HIS SKILLS!

NO OTHER FRAME GOT THE SAME LUXURY.

When RNG 1 #*($%%@ up, they did their best to make RNG 2.

 

 

Hell waiting for 4 months after Nekros's release and Nekros still has not recieved a single meaningfull change yet. Makes me worry how long other frames like Volt that were waiting for their fix(Thankfully Volt got good changes recently, but not directly. It was due to the damage overhaul.). Other worries of mine point to Valkyr, who can have no changes for quite awhile, even though the posters in the feedback section all agree what the problem may actually be and informative ways of fixing it.