How To 're-Tier' Soma Without A Nerf Or Buff

[ChaoticVice777]

  

My point is very clear. First of all, the fire rate boost from shred benefits the Soma's DPS and not the held trigger rifles. My suggestion, in red at the top of the OP was for it to also benefit held trigger rifles. How do you not understand that extending the benefit would help reduce the damage gap?

Secondly, is your position that we should not make suggestions to potentially identify balance issues before they occur? Would you rather have the community sat silent about elemental effect rate being tied to crit rate? So we could see how horribly imbalanced that made the game and beg for fixes for the next 6 months?

What exactly is your suggestion to fix these issues?

 

It reduces the damage gap...and doesn't change the tier.

 

We have no position to make because we don't have the new damage system fleshed out. Yes, I would like the community to be silent; we only had a glimpse. Thus, I have no suggestions to make regarding the issue. If I have ragged about overpowered weapons, it's because they are overpowered in their current incarnation. No more, no less.

 

 

Not directly. But it will add more weapons in to the level  that the Soma is. 

So that it doesn't stand out as an overpowered primary weapon, it would actually have competitors. 

If you make other weapons that are capable of competing with it, then you've effectively changed its tier without changing its tier. Without even touching the Soma. 

 

There is no primary that can compete with the Soma. Refer to the above statement; adding this bugged aspect will not change the current tiering. Also, for the bolded statement: Contradictory much? it's fine to say without changing the Soma though.

Edited October 24, 2013 by ChaoticVice777

[LukeAura]

It reduces the damage gap...and doesn't change the tier.

 

We have no position to make because we don't have the new damage system fleshed out. Yes, I would like the community to be silent; we only had a glimpse. Thus, I have no suggestions to make regarding the issue. If I have ragged about overpowered weapons, it's because they are overpowered in their current incarnation. No more, no less.

I think you've entirely missed the point of this thread. 

Do you see these ' ' around re-tier. That means OP isn't literally referring to an actual re-tiering. And how he says 'without buffing or nerfing' 

That means balancing other high end guns to be at its level. 

[notionphil]

 Yes, I would like the community to be silent; we only had a glimpse.

 

Some create change, others await change. You've chosen your role, as have I.

 

And by the way:

 

according to the wiki's dps calculator vs grineer lv 100 (not saying its accurate, but it's better than nothing)

 

Soma with crit/skittles build multishot+ serration + shred (with no speed trigger or heavy cal) = 3118 DPS

Soma with crit/skittles build (minus one element bc it doesnt fit) with shred and speed = 4,988 DPS

*Soma with HC maxed   = Fail*

 

Flux with skittles build and no benefit from fire rate                                               = 1898 DPS

Flux with skittles build and shred (with benefit)                                                      =2467 DPS

Flux with skittles build and shred and speed trigger =                                           = 3702 DPS

Flux with skittles build + shred + speed trigger + Heavy cal (minus element)         =4855 DPS

 

*I'm not even going to bother calculating heavy cal maxed with soma, you lose two elements and it's also nearly impossible to hit anything. Try it in game, I have HC 2 levels from max. It's useless on Soma.

 

So yes, at least according to one DPS calclator, heavy cal + benefit from fire speed would bring flux within 3% of soma's DPS, instead of being less than half. I consider that to be on the same tier ergo, fixing Soma's tier.

 

Mind you, synapse does far more DPS, and would probably outdamage the Soma. Either is more accurate, and the tradeoff being they have shorter range.

 

I'm not claiming this math is perfect, but adding 60-90% DPS to Flux and Synapse is obviosuly going to help them either near or surpass Soma's DPS or at least substantially close the gap. I'm not even sure how you can argue otherwise.

Edited October 24, 2013 by notionphil

[LukeAura]

I'm not claiming this math is perfect, but adding 60-90% DPS to Flux and Synapse is obviosuly going to help them either near or surpass Soma's DPS or at least substantially close the gap. I'm not even sure how you can argue otherwise.

I believe he stills thinks this is a thread about changing the Soma's tier. 

[ChaoticVice777]

I believe he stills thinks this is a thread about changing the Soma's tier. 

 

Because it is a thread about changing the Soma's tier without touching the Soma, which translates to yet another one of those "buff X because Y has that much power" arguments. While it has been toted in Warframe, the Soma's...too good for what it does. I'm still going to wait, but it's aggravating to see these threads.

[LukeAura]

Because it is a thread about changing the Soma's tier without touching the Soma, which translates to yet another one of those "buff X because Y has that much power" arguments. While it has been toted in Warframe, the Soma's...too good for what it does. I'm still going to wait, but it's aggravating to see these threads.

It sounds as if you've gone around in a circle, where we were just telling you that and now you're telling us that. 

It's a rank 6 weapon, well, it's going to be a rank 6 weapon. 

And if all the other rank 6 weapons can compete with it then its on par for what a rank 6 weapon can do. 

At least this thread offers a better solution than nerf it. 

It's also a thread that suggests something that should probably be implemented any ways. Flux and Ignis are rather handicapped by not getting dps bonuses from increased fire rate. And having it phrased with talk about the Soma is a great way to get people to come and read it. Even if only in frustration like you have. It's actually quite a common marketing/comercial strategy.  

[notionphil]

Because it is a thread about changing the Soma's tier without touching the Soma, which translates to yet another one of those "buff X because Y has that much power" arguments. While it has been toted in Warframe, the Soma's...too good for what it does. I'm still going to wait, but it's aggravating to see these threads.

 

Ok, is your position you'd like to nerf Soma?

 

Well thats...

 

not. going. to. happen.

 

The Soma and its role in the scope of weapon options has undergone much discussion.

 

...

 

The debate included consideration on changing the weapon stats or increasing it's Mastery Rank but maintaining it's stats, we opted for Mastery increase.

 

 

In principle, I agree with you, however, it's not going to happen, so lets find a solution which can actually be implemented in game - instead of wasting time waiting for a fix that never happens.

 

How about, 2 mods which can substantially add 30-90% DPS to every weapon in game, (fire rate) don't currently affect half of the highest mastery Tier weapons!

 

Why don't we fix that. Hence, this thread.

[notionphil]

 And having it phrased with talk about the Soma is a great way to get people to come and read it. Even if only in frustration like you have. It's actually quite a common marketing/comercial strategy.  

 

Totally called me out, and correct at that +1

[LukeAura]

Totally called me out, and correct at that +1

I knew you were tired of these threads. You said so in the "I was going to save this...." one a couple days ago. So I knew your intention wasn't actually about the Soma. Pretty clever all the same, I'm still suckered in by threads about it. 

[ChaoticVice777]

Ok, is your position you'd like to nerf Soma?

 

Well thats...

 

not. going. to. happen.

 

Technically, a Mastery rank boost is a nerf. That being said, given that Armor/Damage 2.0 will require another look at the weapons...

[LukeAura]

Technically, a Mastery rank boost is a nerf. That being said, given that Armor/Damage 2.0 will require another look at the weapons...

Speaking of armour 2.0, do we know or not if there is actually going to be an element rate like a crit rate tied to each gun? Or is it going to be a chance of each element tied to the mod?

Because I could definitely see the element rate being tied to an inverse of the base fire rate.  Meaning slower guns would activate the elements more with single shots, while high rate of fire guns would require spending more to achieve an effect. 

[Preanette]

So...why do you only talk about continuous weapons. What about the rest...esp supra

[notionphil]

I knew you were tired of these threads. You said so in the "I was going to save this...." one a couple days ago. So I knew your intention wasn't actually about the Soma. Pretty clever all the same, I'm still suckered in by threads about it. 

 

I'm a proponent of overall balance - I just think once something has been said 'to death' it's been said. So suggesting new ways to fix it is ever so slightly different from complaining about it...but only slightly :P

 

And yes - I'd like split trigger + shred to be 'fixed'. Seems odd that they don't affect around half of the clantech weapons. Especially considering the relative strength of Soma. Its not like flux and synapse are going to get 'OP' or anything....compared to what's out there now.

[notionphil]

So...why do you only talk about continuous weapons. What about the rest...esp supra

 

I haven't thought of a parsimonious way to fix supra (besides a straight up dmg buff)...only answer i can give you is what everyone else tells me...wait and see for armor 2.0? :P

 

My hope is that elemental proc rates are different for each weapon. That way things that are a bit underpowered can have higher proc rates and hopefully balance out that way....

 

...that's my hope

[LukeAura]

I haven't thought of a parsimonious way to fix supra (besides a straight up dmg buff)...only answer i can give you is what everyone else tells me...wait and see for armor 2.0? :P

 

My hope is that elemental proc rates are different for each weapon. That way things that are a bit underpowered can have higher proc rates and hopefully balance out that way....

 

...that's my hope

I feel if there are proc rates for each weapon they'll be inversely proportional to RoF give or take. A grakata being rather weak on its own will probably have a relatively high chance for a gun that shoots 20 rounds per second as compared to the Soma which might have an equal chance to proc, but has wind up time and shoots 5 less rounds in the same time span.

Of course weapons like the Lex and Latron will have the naturally highest rates due to their slow fire rates. Certain guns will have elemental effects more often as an extra point of balance. Although I'm not sure about burst weapons and how well they would fit with this. 

RoF mods wouldn't change the chance though, making them useful for increasing elemental effect activation.