Does "status Chance" Need A Buff?

[leonvision]

Ah, this clarifies a lot. I thought that the stat reduction effects would function similarly to other effects and only happen once for a given amount of time, but given the duration and impact of the statuses, it seems like they function much more closely to a per-hit basis than Freeze and such. I still think that Freeze and Fire and the like should be given a possibility of having a 100% rate, but the stat reductions definitely won't work with it, judging from how they work. Guess the "status strength" plan won't work after all.

Thanks for the information. XD

 

 

 

We seem to have inched over the line of rational discussion and entered the world of mindless flaming and insulting. Consider this conversation over.

Good night to you, sir.

 

what, cuz i have proven you wrong? you might want to check what hypocrisy means as well, since you think all your points has just sailed right over my head, and you dont even seem to consider the existence of merit with the points IM trying to make, way to be in the realm of "rationality"

Edited November 25, 2013 by leonvision

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[DarkSignal]

If anything needs to be improved, it is most certainly the status mods. Take for example the Lanka; it has a 25% chance of proc'ing a target. The maximum amount of percentage you can increase by chance is a measly 15%, raising your proc chance by a whopping 3%. 1 mod slot costing 7 points is a really bad tradeoff for just 15%.

Edited November 25, 2013 by DarkSignal

[nekrojiji]

I think I said this before in another post:

 

Weapon's status chance doesnt need to be greater, but the mod bonus chance needs to be greater.

 

i.e. critical chance -> base is usualy low, but mod bonus chance is between 60% and 150%

 

This would make status chance mods viable. The weapon will proc without it .... but you can sacrifice some damage and make it proc noticeably more.

Edited November 25, 2013 by nekrojiji

[AnonCat]

As some players have mentioned, making the mods additive rather than proportional would be a smart move. Adjust the status mods accordingly if needed to compensate for the change.

[S3ven0F13]

Im confused when your saying 100% status chance and say its changed thats not entirely true. The status chance of Kestrel is 10%  but its ragdolling effect is 100% so in effect alot of weapons that have special abilities arent really effected, like acrid doesent need Viral to do a DoT. with that said. I think the base should be a lil higher than it currently is.  but they should leave the mods be and make some of the satus chances more like 25%-50% maybe? so that lil 30% boost could actually make a difference.

[Babalenong]

max stat chance for automatic rifles should be around 25%/15%, shotguns 40%/50%, snipers 75%

the reason proc chance works in borderlands 2 is because most common enemies could withstand around 15 bullets, enough for the proc to kick in

but in warframe? around 5 bullet at most when fighting common enemies around your level, and proc chance around 5% is very low, even worse for viper, 1 bloody percent?! thats like only 2-4 procs on entire ammo pool!

[Neyd]

As I've mentioned in several other threads I do think the mods need to have a bigger impact on proc chances. Either make them percentage POINTS instead of real percentage (aka. 10% + 15% = 25%) which would bring decent proc chances when modded but would suck because the system would differ from how crit chances are calculated. So the better solution would be to buff proc chance mods by a factor of x10 (ie. +15% would become +150%)

[luanle21]

its need a buff

auto weapons for primary should have 15% base or 10% at least while the snipers gets a auto 25% base, for semi auto rilfe i say 15-20% be enough

shotguns current should be 17.5%

melee need to be high escpecally the ones focused on normal hits.

pistol base should be 10(auto), 20(weapon like Lex), and 12.5% for semi auto(like bolto/lato)

 

now for elemental weapons like ignis or synapse etc should just have 75% chance for proc cause come the hell on already

mods that boost the proc should go to 120% maxed rank 5

[Felandi]

Both base status chance and how the mods affect the percentage needs to be looked at.

 

I am looking forward to the point where I can mod a rapid fire weapon for lots of arching electrical damage, hitting entire crowds at once.

[Kyte]

As some players have mentioned, making the mods additive rather than proportional would be a smart move. Adjust the status mods accordingly if needed to compensate for the change.

 

No, because then either the mods have really low values or the mod's bonus completely overshadows the base chance, which renders differentiated base chances pointless.

 

Meanwhile, a buffed multiplicative mod (say, +150%) can range from 2.5% to 62.5% depending on the weapon. This helps balance low-damage-high-proc automatic weapons like Grakata, high-damage-low-proc automatic weapons like Braton, AoE weapons like Ogris, continuous weapons like Ignis and Flux, semi-auto weapons, etc.

[ArsVampyre]

Yes.

 

Here are the problems:

 

1) Base Status chance is too low on weapons.  So you have a rifle that has a 10% status chance.  That means one in ten shots will proc.  Sounds ok to you?    That same weapon kills most things in one or two shots.  That means you'll only see it proc on say, one of every 5 enemies, and chances are it dies almost immediately.  Why do you need a status effect again?  

 

2) The mods are multiplicative of the base status chance.  This means a 15% mod for status makes your 10% rifle now proc 11.5% of the time instead.  For 9 mod points.  Why would you ever use this mod when you could instead put in a 90% fire damage mod or something like it for the same cost?  You'd see better results out of a reload speed mod, literally.  Anything else would increase your DPS and your crowd control (by virtue of killing the enemy) better.

 

3) The mods for status are too low for their rank cost.  Maxed out I think they give you 15% status chance, multiplicative of the base, for a cost of 9 mod points I think.  Even the best weapons have a base status of 15%, so 2.25% additional chance for a proc.  Really?

 

The real problem is that someone decided to just swap stun chance over as status chance without adjusting them enough.  Stun chance was always extremely low on everything, and the mods that affected it were pretty small too.  And I've no idea what duration is but I imagine it isn't very long on stun from blast or confusion from Radiation.

 

So for those of you worried about a rocket launcher that fires chaos because of a 100% proc, worry less. For one, the AoE on the rocket launcher isn't very high.  For another, it takes a bit to charge and launch the shot.  And finally, it's a meaningless argument because no one is saying make the status chance 100%.  Hell, put a hard cap on it like power efficiency.

 

But a Base of 15%, let alone 10 or 5 or 1%, is too low.

 

The synapse has/had a 50% crit chance, and with the crit mods, you could get it to 100% chance for critical.  Did it become the ultimate killing machine?  Evidently not.

 

This is what I'd propose; 1) double all weapon base status chance.  So Generic rifle 1 with a 10% status chance now has a base 20% status chance.

2) either take the current status chance mods and make them additive, or instead of going up 2.5% per rank, make them go up 10% per rank for a max of 60%.  So on a weapon with a 15% status chance now, with a fully ranked status mod, you could have at maximum a 48% chance of a status effect.  Reasonable enough to consider a build for, not so absurd that you wouldn't consider anything else.

 

Also, adjust the weapons; single shot/melee weapons should have higher status chance values and shotguns/high rate of fire weapons lower status rates.  As it is, because of the way pellets from shotguns are treated, most shotguns will always status because they have a 15% status rate and fire 7 or more pellets.  The continuous fire weapons are guaranteed to proc eventually but I'm not sure at what rate, and the high rate of fire weapons will proc quickly as well but may still need to be high to be useful (The Soma's proc rate feels too low to me).

 

If proc rates stay as low as they are now, status effects will get ignored and Damage 2.0 will just be another damage nerf instead of fixing the absurd damage curve from the previous damage model.

[Katzenwolf]

They really do need to raise status chance.

 

- The guy above me has the right idea.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Katzenwolf

[Akrocius]

I honestly think that for (most) weapons the base proc chance is fine. What needs to be looked at is the proc chance mod. We pretty much all agree that the mods give an abysmal return for the investment in their current state. I'm guessing it was just an oversight in the transition from stun to proc chance. I can see it getting buffed up to Point Strike levels, making your base chance of 10% go up to 25% or so.

 

1) Base Status chance is too low on weapons.  So you have a rifle that has a 10% status chance.  That means one in ten shots will proc.  Sounds ok to you?    That same weapon kills most things in one or two shots.  That means you'll only see it proc on say, one of every 5 enemies, and chances are it dies almost immediately.  Why do you need a status effect again?  

 

Actually that DOES sound ok to me. Why should I worry about debuffing a mob that I can kill in 2-3 shots? The guys I want to put (and should be putting) debuffs on are the guys that don't die that easily, namely heavies and bosses. Having some form of CC on them is useful, especially on higher level missions where they take considerably more firepower to bring down.

 

I'm also ok with some weapons having a low proc chance by default. Not every weapon should be able to have every type of build. Nobody complains that they can't make a crit-foused Acrid build, and if you try to then you are silly. Its all about accentuating the strenghts / filling in weaknesses of your weapon.

[VaNki]

Pump this so DE can see what need to be change.