Found a flaw in your rulebook, you contradicted it yourself.

[Ruwr]

As we all know warframe fashion contests are a thing, often hosted by the community or clans aswel.

In their rules they state:
 

Q: Can I create contests with giveaway prizes that are awarded via Trading?

Please do not do this. While your intent may be innocent, if your contest will rely on the Warframe Trading or Gifting systems to send items or Platinum to players directly we must HIGHLY discourage this.  This is not the intent of these systems and there is little to differentiate this sort of contest from possible fraudulent or illegitimate transactions between parties. 

 

Contests from the Warframe Community team (Dev Streams, Prime Time, etc), Fansites, and partners will use the code redemption system and are the only sanctioned method of conducting a contest with players.  Digital Extremes does not offer support for unsanctioned giveaways or contests.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yet we all know these contests happen, so i figured i might contact them to get an answer on what could happen if i did host one, the reply i got was as follows:


Hey there, And thank you for your patience. You can occasionally have small events for your Clan - in those case please provide us through a ticket the following information: Date of the event, and when the prizes were distributed Who gave the prizes (please list the players if there were several of them) Names of the players receiving the prizes List of the prizes being given away Thanks for your cooperation!



I'd like to say im properly confused and you should probably streamline your rules.


Same goes for the '3rd party and macroing' post made by [DE]Juice on the 1st of february.
It creates such a big grey zone with DE saying 'its on your own risk'
But not clarifying what actually gets flagged.

Other companies are more transparant about this, take Jagex for example.
Yes you can use the 3rd party clients.
Yes you can use autohotkeys to bind a 1-to-1 macro.
No you cannot make scripts

It's not that hard to draw a line which shouldn't be crossed.
But having us run in a sandpit full of mines praying we dont accidentally run over one is just ludicrous.



-- and to add, Its not feasable to make a ticket with a response time of a week+ if you want to host a spontaneous event.

I hosted an event and took the risk, people were waiting so long to be able to claim their rewards due to the vagueness mentioned above.
We all quit after, well come back with the new patch.. hopefully it will be a little less politically annoying for the other side of the playerbase we've not been catering too for a long while now (miss you steve)
Were disappointed, and its your turn now.



P.S I'm not going to pretend im happy with the current state of affairs so yeah, i might sound a little frustrated, deal with it.
I assume im talking with adults.

Edited February 17 by Ruwr

[0bsi]

Well the problem is that "contests with giveaway prizes" could be anything from a large youtuber doing something with thousands of entrants just posting in a twitch/discord chat as their "entry" to win thousands of plat .... and a small clan hosting a captura contest among only their members to win 100 plat or a forma bundle.

I agree with you that the rule is unclear and could definitely do with more information, but on the otherhand, I also see how specifying things can show people where loopholes are to get around rules.

Eg, if they were to specify that a competition within a clan was ok (as you would expect it should be), then someone holding a big competition for thousands of complete strangers just needs to temporarily invite the winner into the clan to do the trade and then they have followed the rules as written - which would not be how the rule was intended to be.

 

1 hour ago, Ruwr said:

Same goes for the '3rd party and macroing' post made by [DE]Juice on the 1st of february.

It creates such a big grey zone with DE saying 'its on your own risk'
But not clarifying what actually gets flagged.

You've been told why that hasn't been clarified by another member in another thread...  They are not going to specifically tell people what things are ok and what aren't - because people will always find ways to get around things, and some will need to be addressed on a case by case basis.

[Ruwr]

29 minutes ago, 0bsi said:

Well the problem is that "contests with giveaway prizes" could be anything from a large youtuber doing something with thousands of entrants just posting in a twitch/discord chat as their "entry" to win thousands of plat .... and a small clan hosting a captura contest among only their members to win 100 plat or a forma bundle.

I agree with you that the rule is unclear and could definitely do with more information, but on the otherhand, I also see how specifying things can show people where loopholes are to get around rules.

Eg, if they were to specify that a competition within a clan was ok (as you would expect it should be), then someone holding a big competition for thousands of complete strangers just needs to temporarily invite the winner into the clan to do the trade and then they have followed the rules as written - which would not be how the rule was intended to be.

 

You've been told why that hasn't been clarified by another member in another thread...  They are not going to specifically tell people what things are ok and what aren't - because people will always find ways to get around things, and some will need to be addressed on a case by case basis.

the reply that i completely debunked if you scroll down?

I literally just got the reply from D.E so i'm not entirely sure what you are on about.
And that reply opens a contradiction in their rules.
Thats why im here, Remove the unclearness.

they state one thing, but it is clearly enforced the other way around.

And i haven't been told anything about what you quote... I think its safe to say that maybe you should read before you talk.

Also, another thing.. Were talking thousands of platinum in contest prices, my clan doesn't consist of brokies.. were all endgame and not catering to new players at all, we dont want them, they dont want to be here.. were not playing the same content for weeks if not months. Theres other clans for that.

Now do you really think that me making a support ticket every time i want to turn my ass for my clan is going to motivate me to supply entertainment in My community on Their game?


No.
And many agreed with me, and many have quit.
Its not too much asked to give clarification on a touchy subject, especially if the gray area could mean termination of your account.
and we all know that its very hard to prove your case after you've been convicted.

Edited February 17 by Ruwr

[0bsi]

4 minutes ago, Ruwr said:

And i haven't been told anything about what you quote... I think its safe to say that maybe you should read before you talk.

 

[Ruwr]

40 minutes ago, 0bsi said:

 

This is Posted on february second, I've gotten the reply from digital extremes after that.
My case stands, since i hadn't mentioned the actual response or macros and such since well... Today! :)
And in that reply the contradiction came forth what this thread is about, so stop trying to be a moderator and just a nuisance to anyone that you dont agree with on the internet and just let it happen.
I even seem to read that you kinda agree, so im really not sure what tree you're barking up to here.

Im not here to accept' Yeah they do that because there are so many billions of scenarios, its better that we keep it gray, they cant go past every scenario'

You can summarize everything in 4 sentences or less what you can and cannot do, and quite frankly i dont see the logic in not doing that.
If this game didnt have the community incentives and people doing all these things, the game would have a lot less animo and that is exactly why they should be clear in their rules.

Right now were talking giving people privileges, one cant the other cant.
You have to have a Clan or whatever to validate you are doing this.

Nowhere is it mentioned, they tell you to turn around and Not do it infact. Doesnt matter if youre 5 players with 10 plat going around
a 100 man clan giving away 10.000 - 5000 and 2500 plat

Or some big youtuber that gives away 5k plat.
Nothing is clarified, the rules state NONE of it is okay.
But apparantly ALL OF IT is OKAY


How do you agree with this rulebook?
Its like saying, Yeah you can't steal... But if you steal its okay as long as you record it and then go to the police officer and say that you did it.


If i went and did our second event and didn't contact WF i can guarantee you 100% that 3 people would've gotten flagged and or banned for supposed 'RWT' or Shady transactions.
Guaranteed.
Either locking us out of our accounts till we finally get a response from the support, or permanently losing our accounts, some of which are 10+ years and ongoing.


What you are proposing is that Customer Service has to go deal with EVERY event that exists, all while they cant even get a proper response within 5 working days.
Keep notes of it, whitelist the names For EVERY SINGULAR EVENT (otherwise you can host 1 event and become RWTer)
And then check if it actually happened that way?
What is your logic, explain it. Seriously!

Its not nice, Its not profitable, Its nothing. This is poop.
And if anything is created its an oppertunity for workarounds and loopholes.



--Also 
You've been told why that hasn't been clarified by another member in another thread... 

Members dont make the rules last time i checked, do they now?
So i'm glad interpretations were shared, but since it comes from the company i'd like to have their take on it.
Not suggestions from other members.


And yes, my response to you is lippy because you come in here trying to shut down a valid argument with nothing, its not even your jurisdiction.

Edited February 17 by Ruwr

[BelmontsDemon]

With the way a lot of internal corporate entities store data with all its checks and balances, often times are automatically managed by an automated system. I am "all for" advancement in this field but afraid of biased Ai being integrated into untrained or unaware companies/corporations that store user data thats been around for years or even decades.

All that being said-

If DE is operating on a Ticket based system with a 5+ day window of wait time. This implies either-

1. May not be enough staff to accommodate your ticket which legitimately SHOULD be addressed.

2.There IS enough staff and they need to sift through the junk tickets like "got fish prime stuck in wall, halp"

3. Or both "hopefully not"

Any time a user submits a Ticket, it (at some point) MUST be addressed or "cleared out of a queue". Most places operate like this with requests, sure. BUT I do hope there would be a more streamlined process down the line soon.

I think the Ticket system is something tangible they can hold onto or "backtrack" or "search" for in the event that automation decides to go Terminator with people's accounts falsely flagged as "suspicious/bad". (Hence the paragraph at the start).

I've wanted to throw a Contest with plat as the prize myself but after reading the rules that were on here did make me second guess that and say "10+ years down the drain for packing a bazaar/dojo for a fashion contest, I'll pass." Sad to say.