@de - Difficulty Modes / Solve The Cc Crying.

[Oktalz]

Hi DE!

Me and my friend were talking about how much we disliked all the people (sorry guys) who were upset at the Grindeers and Stun balls and the disruptors etc etc in the game.

The forum is now flooded with these sort of discussions and they simply have to stop. So me and my friend came to a solution to the problem and this solution makes us look at a game called Torchligh 2 and Diablo 3.

Why Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3?

Both these games are ARPG´s much like Warframe is a TPS/ARPG.

Both these games have drops and farming included. Both games involve bossfights and both games involve some sort of crowd control mechanic here and there. As these forums are now soiled with the wordplay and bloodbath around the later discussion we have come to the following solution.

Difficultiy Levels!!!

So this game should have a difficulty setting. Plain and simply, the difficulty will also determine other things about the game. These things will include specific loot, spawnrate, damage and more. So let´s get to it shall we.

Initiate Difficulty:

- In this mode there are no enemy types that do CC (for the ease of the programmers at DE the same enemies can still be around for the diversito of the looks of enemy type). Basically the seekers are in the game but they don´t have the stunballs. There are no Grindeers, the Big moas don´t knock you down, instead only deal damage. The none CC mode you could call this. The HP pools will be slightly lower than they currently are of every enemy type. The damage is also lowered. The droprates of blueprints and materials are lower aswell ( no you can´t play an easier version of the game and share the same benefits as other players DUH). Also some blueprints will not drop if played on Initiate diffi[culty.

Veteran Difficulty:

- In this mode the game is as it exists today, perhaps with a buff to the enemy HP pools and Shields to add another flair and difficulty. The droprates are as they are and the same blueprints will drop here as they do today.

Tenno Difficulty:

- Welcome to the real war Tenno! In this mode you will need all the Artifacts and all your power and your builds will be put to the test. Damage from the enemies is increased by a whooping 25%. HP pools by a whooping 50% along with shields. The enemies are relentless and there are higher spawnrates of enemies, there will be more flanking involved and teamplay will be a must. This will not be a walk in the park Tenno. There will even be sweeper packs of enemies that are in Tenno mode to take you out, the elite we could call them. These elite units will sport ie on Grineer maps a five man team of 2 Heavy Gunners, 2 Bombard units and 1 Melee (Tyl Regor) assassin type and they will be your worst nightmare when you hear "There is a heavy unit aproaching".

So why play in "Tenno" mode?

Drop rates are higher on materials and blueprints, some exclusive blueprints which can otherwise only be purchased with platinum in the store will drop here and only here. There will be a specific ladder to track how well you are doing in kills, damage taken, deaths, damage dealt, revives and so forth to place yourself at the top of the leaderboards. This is your endgame. At least it is a means to one, rough and rugged and unpolished as it is but with room to evolve.

Join with your clanmates exclusively in Tenno mode to advance in Clan Ladders, use your clans power to rise and claim specific maps with your emblems placed on them as the best team for that month. And many more things.

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Now finally, some answeres to basic questions.

Will you be stuck in one difficulty?

No you will not be stuck, you can change difficulty between missions.

Won´t this be unfair?

On the contrary, it will be as fair as it gets. People who deemed the game to easy as it is now will get their fix.

Those of you who think it´s too annoying and hard can turn it down.

Why should the endgame be the hardest mode and have loot the other modes don´t?

Well, with great time spent and all those kills perfecting your skills, the ultimate challenge should yield the ultimate rewards.

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Surely this should solve all the whine on the forums about who gets to play what content and how. Those who want a walk in the park can have their way and hardcore players like myself will walk the path of the Tenno and soil our hands in Grineer blood.

I´d like your input on this.

Regards Oktalz

Edited March 4, 2013 by Oktalz

[Renathy]

I'd rather have dependent difficulty according to the players levels.

Edited March 4, 2013 by JRMC

[Oktalz]

I'd rather have dependent difficulty according to the players levels.

well that is the underlying difficulty. These modes add or remove a layer of the basic unaltered difficulty. Dunno if that explanation came across the right way.

[Renathy]

well that is the underlying difficulty. These modes add or remove a layer of the basic unaltered difficulty. Dunno if that explanation came across the right way.

I think it would be more suitable, rather than your mainstream type of difficulty modes.

Enemies levels would be calculated according your team's levels.

Then each planet would add a bit more of difficulty as you progress, so enemies would be calculated to be skilled against players of a small level difference or higher, depending on the upcoming difficult planet.

[Oktalz]

I think it would be more suitable, rather than your mainstream type of difficulty modes.

Enemies levels would be calculated according your team's levels.

Then each planet would add a bit more of difficulty as you progress, so enemies would be calculated to be skilled against players of a small level difference or higher, depending on the upcoming difficult planet.

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree to that sort of difficulty progression in terms of team vs map comp. However I feel that for a real challenge it is not bad to add buffs to your enemies and the maps to realy push the envelope. As such Tenno mode is there. You could say that the basic formula you describe would be the Veteran Mode.

[Renathy]

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree to that sort of difficulty progression in terms of team vs map comp. However I feel that for a real challenge it is not bad to add buffs to your enemies and the maps to realy push the envelope. As such Tenno mode is there. You could say that the basic formula you describe would be the Veteran Mode.

I guess if the developers see fit to upgrade bosses abilities and such, then I guess that would be the highest difficulty.

Though I may not fully agree with your main topic, I do agree there should be some sort of higher difficulty for challenging players.

[Nokturnel]

Just don't make it as horrible as Diablo Inferno and I'm down.

D3 really turned into Pay to Win at that point.

Gear shouldn't be the only factor required in doing Tenno mode for example.

And lets' not just "upgrade health and shields" in order to make stuff harder, that just makes things take longer to kill, that adds boredom not difficulty. In order to make things harder there needs to be new mechanics (that are dodgable) better AI, new harder enemy types, etc.

Just giving mobs more HP is boring, if you want something to be challenging you have to make them threatening but not 1 shot killing people. That just leads to players using boring/cheap tactics in order to survive. There needs to be incentive to dodge and strategy involved and not just how good your gear is.

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Edited March 5, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Oktalz]

Just don't make it as horrible as Diablo Inferno and I'm down.

D3 really turned into Pay to Win at that point.

Gear shouldn't be the only factor required in doing Tenno mode for example.

And lets' not just "upgrade health and shields" in order to make stuff harder, that just makes things take longer to kill, that adds boredom not difficulty. In order to make things harder there needs to be new mechanics (that are dodgable) better AI, new harder enemy types, etc.

Just giving mobs more HP is boring, if you want something to be challenging you have to make them threatening but not 1 shot killing people. That just leads to players using boring/cheap tactics in order to survive. There needs to be incentive to dodge and strategy involved and not just how good your gear is.

---

I agree to the fact that it should not only be a gear check... My Elite unit squad is a part of that. I preffer more enemy types that are harder. More number of enemies.. Sure they should have some higher HP and Shield otherwise it would just be like killing fodder but I get your point. Not exponentionally harder to the point where they are like the bosses... but at least harder. They can even have the same amount of armor they have now with just bigger shields and more HP.. that way it just takes a little more hitting them to kill them, and add to the fact that there are "more of them" actually makes it harder. More grenades being thrown, the flank more, better AI as you said. That´s my idea of Tenno mode. Also Tenno mode would include traps on the map ie flamethrowers poping out of the walls, more harder to traverse maps. Possibilites are endless.

[Cademus]

+1 to you Oktalz

[MJ12]

So you make a thread which is a slap in the face of people who think that the common use of CC mechanics without any escape method are extraordinarily unfun (many of whom actually aren't saying "the game is too difficult", they're saying "get rid of this source of fake difficulty and annoyance and give us some real difficulty") by implying they should play on easy like the casuals they are and should have to take their lumps and deal with reduced drop rates?

And you really want a response?

Let me give you mine.

"…to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

But I suggested a difficulty toggle myself, you'll say. Why the hostility? Oh, you see, when I suggested it I suggested it as a method for people to have fun, not as an insult to people who don't like an extremely contentious source of difficulty that many, many games are seeking to minimize and/or remove nowadays because many people don't like it and it generally creates a very binary difficulty (are you stunlocked y/n? If y, lose game. If n, win game) that isn't actually fun for either side. Not for the people who want an easy experience and not for the people who want a challenge.

I suggested that you could have custom mutators or something for being stunlocked if you liked that in that thread as well.

[Oktalz]

So you make a thread which is a slap in the face of people who think that the common use of CC mechanics without any escape method are extraordinarily unfun (many of whom actually aren't saying "the game is too difficult", they're saying "get rid of this source of fake difficulty and annoyance and give us some real difficulty") by implying they should play on easy like the casuals they are and should have to take their lumps and deal with reduced drop rates?

And you really want a response?

Let me give you mine.

"…to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

But I suggested a difficulty toggle myself, you'll say. Why the hostility? Oh, you see, when I suggested it I suggested it as a method for people to have fun, not as an insult to people who don't like an extremely contentious source of difficulty that many, many games are seeking to minimize and/or remove nowadays because many people don't like it and it generally creates a very binary difficulty (are you stunlocked y/n? If y, lose game. If n, win game) that isn't actually fun for either side. Not for the people who want an easy experience and not for the people who want a challenge.

I suggested that you could have custom mutators or something for being stunlocked if you liked that in that thread as well.

I´d like to just say that you slap me in the face with such an arrogant post. You are directly attacking me when I´ve done my best to come up with a solution for the casual VS hardcore playstyles. Now I don´t know about you but for the past decade all games and all forms of competition gets increased rewards with increased difficulty. You will still have the option to play Tenno mode even if you preffer a more casual style in Initiate mode. I don´t see the problem here at all. Everyone wins and I´m simply implying that with greater risk comes greater reward, thus far in the gaming industry I have yet to see a single game go the other way and I for one wouldn´t want it to either. To make something as easy as possible and then reward the player for less effort seems absolutely unresonable to me.

I respect your opinion but the bottom line is that all you did was say that you disagree with my idea, quote someone and not even add who´s quote it was and lastly not contribute a solid reason for shooting down this idea. All this you did with a big amount of text and still you didn´t add a single constructive reason as to WHY.

@ Cademus: thanks for the +1 and supporting this idea.

[MJ12]

I´d like to just say that you slap me in the face with such an arrogant post. You are directly attacking me when I´ve done my best to come up with a solution for the casual VS hardcore playstyles. Now I don´t know about you but for the past decade all games and all forms of competition gets increased rewards with increased difficulty. You will still have the option to play Tenno mode even if you preffer a more casual style in Initiate mode. I don´t see the problem here at all. Everyone wins and I´m simply implying that with greater risk comes greater reward, thus far in the gaming industry I have yet to see a single game go the other way and I for one wouldn´t want it to either. To make something as easy as possible and then reward the player for less effort seems absolutely unresonable to me.

The reward for beating many games on their hardest difficulty is just a 50G achievement. And no, you haven't "done your best", you just made a thread which is an extended insult to a significant portion-one could even say a majority-of the playerbase. Simply so you could go "look at you CASUALS". And then you set it up specifically to be as insulting to ~casuals~ (i.e. according to you just about everyone who loves playing the game instead of watching their character slowly go through recovery animations no matter what difficulty level they actually want).

I respect your opinion but the bottom line is that all you did was say that you disagree with my idea, quote someone and not even add who´s quote it was and lastly not contribute a solid reason for shooting down this idea. All this you did with a big amount of text and still you didn´t add a single constructive reason as to WHY.

I'm sorry "this is entirely a suggestion borne out of your anger that people don't like a bad gameplay mechanic and thus if implemented in the way you want will be a terrible, horrible, awful abortion of an idea because it's not there to do anything but insult people who haven't played enough games to be frustrated by stunlock yet" is amazing. And that quote I gave is EXTREMELY famous.

Even assuming a thread with the title "stop the cc crying" isn't a blatant insult, the fact that you think super-exclusive blueprints for HARD MODE are a great idea is a huge problem. ME3 and other MP games are either balanced so anyone can get anything because difficulty is low, or designed so hard just gives more cash so you can buy the stuff you like. Finally a difficulty setting with drastic alterations like this to loot will aggravate the playerbase because anyone who can play on hard feels obligated to do so, and even people who can't do as well.

Which, given your title is "stop the cc crying" is apparently exactly what you want. Except for the problem that it's bad for the game and bad for everyone. Which is again entirely the point. Your thread solely exists as an extended insult to players who don't think stunlocks are a good source of difficulty. This is never something where good ideas come from.

[Nucleous]

I generally don't feel that increasing health on enemies, in order to make something more difficult is the way to go.

Making every enemy in a game a walking "tank" is not ideal, it doesn't really ad any more challenge other than ammo management, and using cover properly.

Improved AI, Improved enemy numbers, and more trickery in general will always ad way more to a game, than simply buffing enemies hit points and armor along with damage by 50%

Sure its now harder, everything will properly kill you easier, and you wont be as effective.

But is the game more fun? Is it really more challenging? The only thing i think it does, is restricting your viable tactics, without adding any new approaches.

And don't misunderstand me, the game as it is now, does this very thing. But that's fair, since your gear will also gradually get more powerful, so in this regard it makes sense to buff everything along with you. But if you make different difficulties on top of that. Which will increase everything's HP even more, you end up with bullet sponges, and that's sad to play against, not to mention, slightly boring.

[Oktalz]

I generally don't feel that increasing health on enemies, in order to make something more difficult is the way to go.

Making every enemy in a game a walking "tank" is not ideal, it doesn't really ad any more challenge other than ammo management, and using cover properly.

Improved AI, Improved enemy numbers, and more trickery in general will always ad way more to a game, than simply buffing enemies hit points and armor along with damage by 50%

Sure its now harder, everything will properly kill you easier, and you wont be as effective.

But is the game more fun? Is it really more challenging? The only thing i think it does, is restricting your viable tactics, without adding any new approaches.

And don't misunderstand me, the game as it is now, does this very thing. But that's fair, since your gear will also gradually get more powerful, so in this regard it makes sense to buff everything along with you. But if you make different difficulties on top of that. Which will increase everything's HP even more, you end up with bullet sponges, and that's sad to play against, not to mention, slightly boring.

Absolutely. Couldnt agree more. But my point is not to increase the hp exponetially to the point where a single grunt takes 3 clips from a vandal to beat. Just enough of a buff to make them slightly more durable. If the mob takes your focus for 2-3 more seconds the others in the pack can advance and flank you. As such the AI needs alot of improvement. My hp and shieldbufgf would not be the equivalent of say D3's MP10 wjich is ridiculus. 25% flat on a mob with 100 base hp is 25 more so that isnt terrible. Even on a 1k hp enemy it isn't. You have to factor in that even now my 30 vandal shreds enemies on pluto. Its that easy. Im confident that if we would get these modes that DE would surely find the proper amount to buff the enemies with in internal testing before patching it.

[Oktalz]

The reward for beating many games on their hardest difficulty is just a 50G achievement. And no, you haven't "done your best", you just made a thread which is an extended insult to a significant portion-one could even say a majority-of the playerbase. Simply so you could go "look at you CASUALS". And then you set it up specifically to be as insulting to ~casuals~ (i.e. according to you just about everyone who loves playing the game instead of watching their character slowly go through recovery animations no matter what difficulty level they actually want).

I'm sorry "this is entirely a suggestion borne out of your anger that people don't like a bad gameplay mechanic and thus if implemented in the way you want will be a terrible, horrible, awful abortion of an idea because it's not there to do anything but insult people who haven't played enough games to be frustrated by stunlock yet" is amazing. And that quote I gave is EXTREMELY famous.

Even assuming a thread with the title "stop the cc crying" isn't a blatant insult, the fact that you think super-exclusive blueprints for HARD MODE are a great idea is a huge problem. ME3 and other MP games are either balanced so anyone can get anything because difficulty is low, or designed so hard just gives more cash so you can buy the stuff you like. Finally a difficulty setting with drastic alterations like this to loot will aggravate the playerbase because anyone who can play on hard feels obligated to do so, and even people who can't do as well.

Which, given your title is "stop the cc crying" is apparently exactly what you want. Except for the problem that it's bad for the game and bad for everyone. Which is again entirely the point. Your thread solely exists as an extended insult to players who don't think stunlocks are a good source of difficulty. This is never something where good ideas come from.

You are an inch away from being reported for yet another flame post. You are not projecting anything other than your own poor attitude. There is nothing insuling about adding difficulty levels to a game. Exclusive bps for a mode that is avalible to "EVERYONE" should not be enough to put people off from playing. Also this game survives from micro transactions. These items can be purchased with platinum in the store. Let me simplyfi it for you buddy. The new maps in U7 will not be playable by new players cause they A cant reach the maps or B their frames are not strong enough, they will not be able to get the new blueprints untill they fill these requierments. after completing A and B they can. This will take time and dedication which is NORMAL by any standards. Some BP's will drop in Tenno mode only and it will require the same time and dedication which again is NORMAL. Now I would be greatefull if you not reply unless you have something constructive to say, check your QQ flamegun at the door please.

EDIT:

" Solve the CC crying" means that it goes both ways. Me and my friend came up with these modes in order to make all the fighting about what should and shouldn`t be in the game stop. If you take this onesidedly then that´s you´r perogativ, it´s however not a one sided remark.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Oktalz

[Sollet]

First of all sorry for the incomming wall-of-text. I feel like I need to write some clarifications or rather some corrections that my friend wrote in the thread.

The unique drops in “Tenno mode” are by no means anything that would give anyone the upper hand in anyway.

They're meant to be like "Trophies" or "Badges", something that indicates that this player (which can be viewed in his profile page or on his characters) has completed content in the dreaded "Tenno mode".

It isn't really in my intention to create a gap between players (Pro VS Casual) or belittling people who finds some of the current mechanics broken, boring, unfair etc.

The unique loot or are meant to be purely cosmetic. Maybe at best slightly better than the "initiate/veteran" counterparts.

For instance an exclusive 2-handed axe blueprint may drop in Tenno mode. However this weapon is just a slightly better version of the already existing Scindo, the difference between them should be along the lines of Excalibur and his Prime counterpart.

So why play Tenno mode, I mean why bother?

Well this mode is purely for those who want a challenge and/or completionists:

· Harder enemies – Tenno mode exclusive abilities

· New enemies types – Tenno mode exclusive

· New bosses – Tenno mode exclusive bosses

· Slightly highly blue print and material drop rates

· New systems or areas in already existing systems that are Tenno mode locked.

· New map mechanics – Traps coming in different forms, maybe even unique game modes.

· Tenno mode exclusive achievements (if achievements ever are implemented).

· Skins for weapons or Warframes exclusive to Tenno mode

· Sentinels exclusive to Tenno mode

These are some of the things that are meant to urge players, completionists, or players like me that are glutton for punishment wanting to tackle this dreaded mode which is purely optional.

The difficulty could be adjusted before entering a new system – you click on a system and you will be prompted to set the difficulty to the desired one and by doing so the system will adapt itself accordingly – on the fly.

[Oktalz]

First of all sorry for the incomming wall-of-text. I feel like I need to write some clarifications or rather some corrections that my friend wrote in the thread.

The unique drops in “Tenno mode” are by no means anything that would give anyone the upper hand in anyway.

They're meant to be like "Trophies" or "Badges", something that indicates that this player (which can be viewed in his profile page or on his characters) has completed content in the dreaded "Tenno mode".

It isn't really in my intention to create a gap between players (Pro VS Casual) or belittling people who finds some of the current mechanics broken, boring, unfair etc.

The unique loot or are meant to be purely cosmetic. Maybe at best slightly better than the "initiate/veteran" counterparts.

For instance an exclusive 2-handed axe blueprint may drop in Tenno mode. However this weapon is just a slightly better version of the already existing Scindo, the difference between them should be along the lines of Excalibur and his Prime counterpart.

So why play Tenno mode, I mean why bother?

Well this mode is purely for those who want a challenge and/or completionists:

· Harder enemies – Tenno mode exclusive abilities

· New enemies types – Tenno mode exclusive

· New bosses – Tenno mode exclusive bosses

· Slightly highly blue print and material drop rates

· New systems or areas in already existing systems that are Tenno mode locked.

· New map mechanics – Traps coming in different forms, maybe even unique game modes.

· Tenno mode exclusive achievements (if achievements ever are implemented).

· Skins for weapons or Warframes exclusive to Tenno mode

· Sentinels exclusive to Tenno mode

These are some of the things that are meant to urge players, completionists, or players like me that are glutton for punishment wanting to tackle this dreaded mode which is purely optional.

The difficulty could be adjusted before entering a new system – you click on a system and you will be prompted to set the difficulty to the desired one and by doing so the system will adapt itself accordingly – on the fly.

Absolutely now you see who the colaborator is on this topic and with further information and some repeating in a different wording from the second source. +1 Sollet well put.

[Gaiters]

Normal/Hard/Elite(or whatever you want to call it) Is somthing I expect they will implement, they already have difficulty ratings (1-5) on the Levels.

+1 to the suggestions of this thread.

PS: Completionists makes me think of this....

[MJ12]

You are an inch away from being reported for yet another flame post. You are not projecting anything other than your own poor attitude. There is nothing insuling about adding difficulty levels to a game. Exclusive bps for a mode that is avalible to "EVERYONE" should not be enough to put people off from playing. Also this game survives from micro transactions. These items can be purchased with platinum in the store. Let me simplyfi it for you buddy. The new maps in U7 will not be playable by new players cause they A cant reach the maps or B their frames are not strong enough, they will not be able to get the new blueprints untill they fill these requierments. after completing A and B they can. This will take time and dedication which is NORMAL by any standards. Some BP's will drop in Tenno mode only and it will require the same time and dedication which again is NORMAL. Now I would be greatefull if you not reply unless you have something constructive to say, check your QQ flamegun at the door please.

I'm sorry, who started the flaming in this thread? Hmm could it be the guy who calls legitimate complaints "crying" and went about implying that the only reason you don't like stunlock has to be because you don't want a challenge? I'm giving constructive criticism. This criticism is "difficulty choices can work, except your specific suggested implementation of them solely exists to annoy and insult players who don't like stunlock." If you are really out to help instead of just proving you're solely out to insult people, you should recognize that "this sounds like a bad-faith idea" is very legitimate. Going "leave the QQ flamegun" just reinforces my conclusion. So you can either accept that your posting tone comes off as incredibly hostile or you can pretend it doesn't and just make people think of it.

And sure, the BPs are available to "everyone". And by "everyone" you mean "guys who enjoy a certain gameplay mechanic which has made a significant portion of players outright refuse to play certain maps". Sorry that's not accessibility. You claim they're going to be cosmetic and then in the next breath claim they'll have better statts. Everything posted implies that the only thought here is "let's insult ~casuals~ who prefer playing the game to getting stunlocked" instead of "let's try to make the game better for everyone." But a game that also gets a fair bit of money from microtransactions, ME3MP, and funds all its MP DLC (a lot of it is pretty meaty) with those allows anyone to get anything.

You can unlock everything by just grinding Bronze. Going to Gold cuts down the time to like 1/3rd-1/4th but not THAT much considering the drastic difficulty increase. That's what I mean by "more intended to insult people than improve the game". Plenty of hard diffs work just fine with the sole reward being bragging rights and cosmetics. I guess you COULD have unique BPs-as long as they were significantly and undeniably weaker than non-hard mode stuff. The true mark of masochism. Forcing people to play Hard to get the best stuff is just going to frustrate people.

EDIT:

" Solve the CC crying" means that it goes both ways. Me and my friend came up with these modes in order to make all the fighting about what should and shouldn`t be in the game stop. If you take this onesidedly then that´s you´r perogativ, it´s however not a one sided remark.

So you just want to shut down discussion of what constitutes a bad game mechanic when this is negatively impacting many players? And not only that, but shut it down in a condescending fashion which implies the opposition are whiny babbys who, in your words, should "leave the QQ flameguns"? The equivalent would be me making a thread that was titled "The game should give every enemy quadruple damage, numbers, and health against guys named Oktalz or (other people who disagree with me-solve the crying about the game being too easy". I can accept your friend not being in this to be actively malicious but your responses are word-for-word identical to "guy who wants to troll people he disagrees with by being a prat".

[iotimoline]

So why play Tenno mode, I mean why bother?

Well this mode is purely for those who want a challenge and/or completionists:

· Harder enemies – Tenno mode exclusive abilities

· New enemies types – Tenno mode exclusive

· New bosses – Tenno mode exclusive bosses

· Slightly highly blue print and material drop rates

· New systems or areas in already existing systems that are Tenno mode locked.

· New map mechanics – Traps coming in different forms, maybe even unique game modes.

· Tenno mode exclusive achievements (if achievements ever are implemented).

· Skins for weapons or Warframes exclusive to Tenno mode

· Sentinels exclusive to Tenno mode

These are some of the things that are meant to urge players, completionists, or players like me that are glutton for punishment wanting to tackle this dreaded mode which is purely optional.

Stunlocking is a S#&$ty, terrible gameplay mechanic that doesn't add actually add anything positive to the game. Sure, it adds 'difficulty' but it doesn't add fun difficulty (or fun challenge, if you prefer).

And you're proposing walling off content behind a mode that's basically 'yes I want to have less fun'? Why?

[Gaiters]

So you just want to shut down discussion of what constitutes a bad game mechanic when this is negatively impacting many players? And not only that, but shut it down in a condescending fashion which implies the opposition are whiny babbys who, in your words, should "leave the QQ flameguns"? The equivalent would be me making a thread that was titled "The game should give every enemy quadruple damage, numbers, and health against guys named Oktalz or (other people who disagree with me-solve the crying about the game being too easy". I can accept your friend not being in this to be actively malicious but your responses are word-for-word identical to "guy who wants to troll people he disagrees with by being a prat".

I think that this threads original purpose was finding a compromise, some people do play casually, and you cannot make a game good for both casual players and hardcore players without some form of difficulty setting. Also, there are things in game which will be difficult for some people and not difficult for others.

The game would be more fun for the "hardcore" players if there were some reward for difficulty, rather than it just be up to the player to create difficult situations(by taking mods off for example). More risk more reward is a good system to have in any game. I don't know any casual gamers who despise that there are some things which they don't have or can't get because.. well... they're casual players.

This doesn't mean that the Devs don't have to balance the stun ememies, or that you shouldn't be able to save yourself though.

And you're proposing walling off content behind a mode that's basically 'yes I want to have less fun'? Why?

Because for me it's not less fun. :o

[iotimoline]

And you're proposing walling off content behind a mode that's basically 'yes I want to have less fun'? Why?

Because for me it's not less fun. :o

But it's far, far less fun for a great many people. Just because you personally find stunlocks to be perfectly acceptable as a gameplay mechanic doesn't mean that everyone does or should. Furthermore, given that this is a particularly contention topic it makes all the less sense to use that as your content wall.

You are quite literally saying 'all you guys who don't like the overuse of stunlocks in this game, suck it up because I want the cool extra stuff to be hidden where I can play it and where you won't like playing and won't have fun'. I mean really. Why do you think this is a good idea? Doubling down on the already problematic overuse of stun and removal-of-agency mechanics in Warframe is going completely the wrong direction.

There are plenty of options out there to make Warframe more challenging in a legitimately fun way.

Edited March 5, 2013 by iotimoline

[Cademus]

Yes, iotimoline, stunlocking can be frustrating. But getting rid of it because there are a slew of casual players that dislike it outright isn't anymore fair to those who are more hardcore than having OMGSoOP weapons that only drop on the highest difficulty. On that note I wan't to mention somethig I really liked that was implemented a while back in DDO, where on whatever difficulty you choose the drops are always the same, except there are "normal", "hard", or "elite" versions of each. Each higher teir version is only slightly better than the last, but still enough to give plenty of incentive to challenge yourself.

[MJ12]

I think that this threads original purpose was finding a compromise, some people do play casually, and you cannot make a game good for both casual players and hardcore players without some form of difficulty setting. Also, there are things in game which will be difficult for some people and not difficult for others.

Initially I thought that too and was going to encourage it.

Then I read all the text of the OP where he talks about how this is because he hates guys who dislike stuns. The part where he thinks those people deserve to have their drop rates lowered. And how PRO #$$MARS like him should get all the cool stuff because STUN IS AWESOME.

And then I started to doubt.

Then I read through his posting history where he flamed anyone who dared accuse the game of having bad stun mechanics.

And then I read through his post again. And every sentence in it read like a slap in the face.

Which is why I think it's entirely a bad-faith "solution" which actually only solves one thing: the OP's need to insult ~casuals~ like he does in other threads.

The game would be more fun for the "hardcore" players if there were some reward for difficulty, rather than it just be up to the player to create difficult situations(by taking mods off for example). More risk more reward is a good system to have in any game. I don't know any casual gamers who despise that there are some things which they don't have or can't get because.. well... they're casual players.

This doesn't mean that the Devs don't have to balance the stun ememies, or that you shouldn't be able to save yourself though.

Rewards from high difficulty in most games now are like... A 50G achievement, maybe a really silly weak joke weapon, some bling. Nobody's talking about not letting people have that. But when you're walled off from better gear... That's something else entirely.

And honestly the proposed "Tenno mode" isn't actually harder by much. It just increases frustration. Games shouldn't be masochism simulators.

[MJ12]

Yes, iotimoline, stunlocking can be frustrating. But getting rid of it because there are a slew of casual players that dislike it outright isn't anymore fair to those who are more hardcore than having OMGSoOP weapons that only drop on the highest difficulty. On that note I wan't to mention somethig I really liked that was implemented a while back in DDO, where on whatever difficulty you choose the drops are always the same, except there are "normal", "hard", or "elite" versions of each. Each higher teir version is only slightly better than the last, but still enough to give plenty of incentive to challenge yourself.

You're acting like the only players who dislike stun are casuals. This is the core fallacy.

Not every person who dislikes stunlock mechanics is a "casual gamer". Many people hate stunlock mechanics not for increasing difficulty but doing so in the laziest possible way.

Edited March 5, 2013 by MJ12