Penta Ammo Capacity

[Eyeless]

well.. ur throwing the kunai not slashing w/ them so generally the target's bein hit by the tip of the kunai hense higher puncture dmg

Yet the bullet is infinitely faster than a single knife throw, which lacks the velocity! The bullet should still be doing more puncture if we apply logic to this illogical game. 

 

That's the thing.

 

This game is illogical. 

 

So can we please leave the ammo thing alone before DE releases a hotfix that totally breaks the ammo on many of our weapons to the point that Ammo Mutation is yet another mod slot we NEED taken up? 

[BlueSilkMetallic]

why we need an other nerf the ammo size thread ?

No to nerfs (special to such useless ones)

The game has a bunch of other problems -_-

[MoyuTheTrinity]

why we need an other nerf the ammo size thread ?

No to nerfs (special to such useless ones)

The game has a bunch of other problems -_-

they ignore the limitations of the engine and dont understand why it is the way it is

[BadAimbot]

I never make balance threads anymore because this is how they turn out. People trying to justify 540 rounds for these weapons is silly.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I never make balance threads anymore because this is how they turn out. People trying to justify 540 rounds for these weapons is silly.

im not justifying it im justifying why its taking so logn to fix and why people like you are jsut silly

[Kagumin]

im not justifying it im justifying why its taking so logn to fix and why people like you are jsut silly

 

Maybe if the other side gave legitimately good reasons why the weapon is balanced, we would leave it alone, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just all personal attacks and "I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG, STOP TAKING AWAY MY TOYS."

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Maybe if the other side gave legitimately good reasons why the weapon is balanced, we would leave it alone, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just all personal attacks and "I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG, STOP TAKING AWAY MY TOYS."

its not balanced its a limitation in the engine thats realy hard to work around

If you ever modded for a bethesda game you would understand adding a new base weapon type isnt that easy thats why they use work arounds like its a staff/bow/crossbow instead of something like a gun or throwing weapon because they just cant add it in its a limitation not a choice

[SIDESTRE4M]

Maybe if the other side gave legitimately good reasons why the weapon is balanced, we would leave it alone, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just all personal attacks and "I'M RIGHT, YOU'RE WRONG, STOP TAKING AWAY MY TOYS."

 

The other way arround it's just "nerf it, because I'm afraid of getting less kills."

 

Everytime I saw someone using Penta, I had to eventually help him, because he killed himself with his own grenade. So yes, there is a risk. The risk/reward ratio may not be the best balanced one but I don't see, what that has to do with the ammo. 

[Kagumin]

its not balanced its a limitation in the engine thats realy hard to work around

If you ever modded for a bethesda game you would understand adding a new base weapon type isnt that easy thats why they use work arounds like its a staff/bow/crossbow instead of something like a gun or throwing weapon because they just cant add it in its a limitation not a choice

 

I'm not asking to create a new ammo just for launchers, most of us are asking it switches to sniper ammo.

 

The other way arround it's just "nerf it, because I'm afraid of getting less kills."

 

Everytime I saw someone using Penta, I had to eventually help him, because he killed himself with his own grenade. So yes, there is a risk. The risk/reward ratio may not be the best balanced one but I don't see, what that has to do with the ammo. 

 

I have never seen anyone complain about getting less kills because there was a Penta user.

Oh, good, maybe giving a Penta user less ammo would make him actually not go down for once and use his ammo smart.

I didn't ask for a damage change or how the mechanics work, I asked for a balanced but still fun weapon.

[bobafetthotmail]

its not balanced its a limitation in the engine thats realy hard to work around

If you ever modded for a bethesda game you would understand adding a new base weapon type isnt that easy thats why they use work arounds like its a staff/bow/crossbow instead of something like a gun or throwing weapon because they just cant add it in its a limitation not a choice

They aren't modders, they are professional game devs working with their own game engine. The only limitations of the engine that can't be fixed easily by devs are on physics (and apparently network code).

 

I can understand why devs never really planned for people adding guns into Skyrim, but Fallout 3 has the same engine and there you can mod in whatever without issues.

 

The other way arround it's just "nerf it, because I'm afraid of getting less kills."

That would be true if switching ammo to Sniper pool was a nerf.

It's just a cosmetic change that would enhance the feel of using a grenade launcher (i.e. high damage, low ammo).

 

As it is now it's just ridicolous.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I'm not asking to create a new ammo just for launchers, most of us are asking it switches to sniper ammo.

 

 

I have never seen anyone complain about getting less kills because there was a Penta user.

Oh, good, maybe giving a Penta user less ammo would make him actually not go down for once and use his ammo smart.

I didn't ask for a damage change or how the mechanics work, I asked for a balanced but still fun weapon.

 

Of course no one would admit something like that but what else could it be gameplay-wise? Asking for a balancing a weapon you have to know what is imbalanced, am I right? Just don't say infinite ammo...

 

[...part not meant for me...]

 

That would be true if switching ammo to Sniper pool was a nerf.

It's just a cosmetic change that would enhance the feel of using a grenade launcher (i.e. high damage, low ammo).

 

As it is now it's just ridicolous.

 

So all that ruckus for a cosmetic nerf, for the "feel". Really, that's all you want?

[MoyuTheTrinity]

They aren't modders, they are professional game devs working with their own game engine. The only limitations of the engine that can't be fixed easily by devs are on physics (and apparently network code).

 

I can understand why devs never really planned for people adding guns into Skyrim, but Fallout 3 has the same engine and there you can mod in whatever without issues.

 

That would be true if switching ammo to Sniper pool was a nerf.

It's just a cosmetic change that would enhance the feel of using a grenade launcher (i.e. high damage, low ammo).

 

As it is now it's just ridicolous.

its their own engine but they didnt make it so they cant add a new ammo type they are tinkering with it just like modders its very similer eccept they can make money off it

 

this is a limitation and they wont risk turning pretty much meh weapons into sniper ammo and causing bugs

 

this isnt about nerfing or buffing its a limitation they have yet to find a workaround on and thats the end of the story no ammount of unhelpful bickering about it is gona change how fast they can learn to add to the core of the engine :x

[bobafetthotmail]

its their own engine but they didnt make it so they cant add a new ammo type they are tinkering with it just like modders its very similer eccept they can make money off it

I always thought they did not add new ammo types because the more ammo types there are, the less ammo for each specific weapon will drop, similar to what happened with adding more and more prime parts to the Void.

 

Adding more ammo types is NOT a good idea.

 

Also, modders have exactly 0 access to game engine (because of legal reasons). Modders work with scripts (if the devs release an editor for that) and data tables that define the stats of what content is in the game (and 3D stuff/animations effects and whatever).

 

this is a limitation and they wont risk turning pretty much meh weapons into sniper ammo and causing bugs

You have some proofs of this? I have some modding experience and it just makes no sense on any modern game engine.

Edited January 2, 2014 by bobafetthotmail

[Kagumin]

Of course no one would admit something like that but what else could it be gameplay-wise? Asking for a balancing a weapon you have to know what is imbalanced, am I right? Just don't say infinite ammo...

 

Here's the imbalance: The weapon's damage potential does not warrant it's insane ammo efficiency.

Suggestion: Tone the ammo efficiency down.

 

Would you rather people ask for a damage "rebalance" then because the AoE is already strong enough?

 

this is a limitation and they wont risk turning pretty much meh weapons into sniper ammo and causing bugs

 

this isnt about nerfing or buffing its a limitation they have yet to find a workaround on and thats the end of the story no ammount of unhelpful bickering about it is gona change how fast they can learn to add to the core of the engine :x

How would removing the rifle ammo properties of the Penta and then adding sniper ammo properties to it cause bugs and a "limitation"? That makes no sense, you're taking one step back then one step forward with different shoes.

It could be as simple as rewriting an one string of code for heaven's sake.

 

This is not the end of the story, don't say it is just because you want it to. This is what "Discussion" boards are for.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Kagumin

[bobafetthotmail]

It could be as simple as rewriting an one string of code for heaven's sake.

 

Most games I know have just a table with stats for all weapons, and there is a field in the table specifying what ammo type the weapon is using.

Ammo types have their own table.

 

I'm pretty sure that Warframe does too, as dataminers did extract such tables back in Damage 1.0.

 

If that's the case, switching ammo types is trivial.

[crisisavatar]

Anything you do to the ammo of these weapons at most will result in people being forced to add ammo mutation, oh yeah im sure ill feel better after that, great accomplishment. 

[bobafetthotmail]

Anything you do to the ammo of these weapons at most will result in people being forced to add ammo mutation, oh yeah im sure ill feel better after that, great accomplishment. 

Do you actually own Penta or Ogris? It's very apparent that they will run fine even with "just" 70 shots in their pool.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

[Brimir]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

 

 "DE will just break stuff if they attempt to change it!" is the worst argument against balance changes in existance - it a factless assumption and as such holds zero credibility.

[Cwierz]

people still arguing about a limitation in the CORE of the engine that DE would have to take risks so deep in the code that it could mess up the whole game and break it, and still ignoring the fact.

It isn't a limitation at all in the slightest. Look at the miter, a weapon that uses sniper ammo but doesn't take sniper exclusive mods, or bow exclusive mods. It really, and trust me when I say really, is not hard to change ammo types for a weapon. There is no risk at all, it is simply changing what ammo pool it has.

Quit talking about things you don't know about.

 

I really don't think the absurd ammo adds anything to the weapon. But it looks so cosmetically bad, that I can't help but notice it and want it changed.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

It isn't a limitation at all in the slightest. Look at the miter, a weapon that uses sniper ammo but doesn't take sniper exclusive mods, or bow exclusive mods. It really, and trust me when I say really, is not hard to change ammo types for a weapon. There is no risk at all, it is simply changing what ammo pool it has.

Quit talking about things you don't know about.

 

I really don't think the absurd ammo adds anything to the weapon. But it looks so cosmetically bad, that I can't help but notice it and want it changed.

the mitter has bugs

and that is the bug

miter probably will use bow mods when it is fixed

breaking stuff was in the context of adding a new ammo type to the core of the engine wich would be currently riskay and could have undesirable effects to the entier game since its so hard coded in they have said it before adding a new ammo type is very difficult to achieve

Edited January 4, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic

[Brimir]

Moyu, just give it a rest. You're not convincing anyone that "ammo is too complex to change". That just isn't true at all. It is not a "limitation of the core engine" or something utterly ridiculous nonsense like that.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

Moyu, just give it a rest. You're not convincing anyone that "ammo is too complex to change". That just isn't true at all. It is not a "limitation of the core engine" or something utterly ridiculous nonsense like that.

you clearly dont understand how some games work :/ the engine they bought does not support more then the 3 base guns that it came with they have even said it >: / and they promised they would try to find a workaround in the future but it is a limitation hurdle am sure even if i get you the exact times they say this you still wont belive me because of how rude and caught up yall are in your futile convertation of ammo

[Brimir]

you clearly dont understand how some games work :/

 

No my friend, it is pretty clear that you have no idea what you're talking about here. Tinkering with ammo capacity is as easy as tweaking damage numbers. It is just another attribute/parameter for the weapon in question.

 

It has nothing to do with the freakin' game engine. That's ridiculous.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

No my friend, it is pretty clear that you have no idea what you're talking about here. Tinkering with ammo capacity is as easy as tweaking damage numbers. It is just another attribute/parameter for the weapon in question.

 

It has nothing to do with the freakin' game engine. That's ridiculous.

adding new ammo types is not as easy as changing damage numbers if it was why haven't they : /

why have they said that it was difficult and that it would be a future plan

I feel like you are to quick to dismiss me just because you don't understand how hard it is to develop new content such as a new ammo type to something that was not designed to be possible DE has said that they did not make the engine.

 

I will sit here and watch the original live streams and post you time stamps its gona take a while since they are so long

Edited January 4, 2014 by MoyuTheMedic