Making A New Tier Of Enemies For Missions: Changing Warframe's Feel For Veterans

[Tigercloud]

Edit: Updated OP post with Grineer Elite Tier

 

Right now what I miss from Warframe is that all the missions, even including the Void and Orokin Derelicts, feel the same because they draw from the same pool of enemies. You fight "heavy" enemies early on, like Napalms, Bombard, Heavy Gunners, Ancients, and Fusion Moas, so even elite enemies are humdrum. The analogy I'd use here is like if you were playing an MMO, like WoW, and in every raid all the enemies looked and acted the same. That's not exciting. What *is* exciting is in a new Raid tier, you've got a batch of completely new looking opponents who use skills you've never seen before.

 

Why doesn't DE make a new tier of enemies for each faction, and make a tier of maps for these enemy types that is only high level (30+)? We have plenty of content for beginners and middle-ranged Warframe players now, it would be great to actually start developing an endgame that FEELS different. What I think is most important to a new enemy tier is giving them abilities.

 

Here's some examples to show what I mean. These units should definitely get new graphics:

 

Grineer Elite Tier:

 

Grineer Widowmaker: This unit might look like a buffed up Scorpion. She would be equipped with a Machete Wraith, and have the ability to go Invisible. Enemy Radar would still reveal these units, and if they are moving, you'd see the motion blur. They would *not* have the Scorpion's grappling hook.

Unit Purpose: To force high-level players to have a new threat vector to look out for; now you have to make sure you're not being ambushed by a bunch of invisible units!

 

Grineer Claymore: Looks like a cross between a Lancer and a Powerfist or Flameblade but equipped with a Grineer Gram. Does Slash Dash.

Unit Purpose: To introduce fast-response melee units that have an ability that forces players to disperse and dodge.

 

Grineer Taurus: Replacement for the Seeker; heavily armored like a Napalm or Bombard. Equipped with a Stug. Stug explosions only happen after 2 seconds. Stug projectiles can be shaken off, like Latchers.

Unit Purpose: Making a high-threat version of the Seeker; if you're hit, you *have* to dodge/shake it off, or be hit by a high-damage explosion.

 

Grineer Elite Tier

Widowmaker: Replaces Scorpion

Cloned Flesh: 200

Ferrite Armor: 100

Damage at level 30: 200 Damage Per Hit (DPH), 133 DPS

Weapon: Machete Wraith

Abilities: Invisibility

 

Claymore: Replaces Butcher/Powerfist/Flameblade

Cloned Flesh: 150

Alloy Armor: 200

Damage at level 30: Slash Dash: 400 Damage, 1.5 Second Charge Time. Melee: 300 DPH, 150 DPS

Weapon: Gram

Abilities: Slash Dash

 

Taurus: Replaces Seeker

Cloned Flesh: 300

Ferrite Armor: 200

Damage at level 30: Uncharged Stug: 50 DPH, 100 DPS. Charged Stug: 500 DPH, 166 DPS. 2 Second Delay until Explosion Charged/Uncharged. Can be shaken off like Latchers by Dodging.

Weapon: Stug

 

Gargant: Replaces Bombard

Cloned Flesh: 600

Alloy Armor: 800

Damage at level 30: 200 DPH, 4xHit, Max DPS 200. Takes 4 seconds to charge attack. Animation will take 2 seconds of the charge sequence, is interruptible.

Weapon: Missile Barrage

Abilities: Seismic Shockwave, Missile Barrage. Like Jackal and Hyena, will do short animation before firing. Will then fire 4 missiles which hit with Hellion accuracy.

 

Elite Lancer: No Change

 

Elite Trooper: Replaces Trooper

Cloned Flesh: 250

Alloy Armor: 300

Weapon: Brakk

 

Pyro: Replaces Scorch

Shields: 300

Cloned Flesh: 200

Ferrite Armor: 150

Damage at level 30: Fire Blast: 150 DPH, 150 DPS. Melee: 175 DPH, 350 DPS

Weapon: Dual Heat Swords

Abilities: Fire Blast. Leaps like Leapers, does not take extra damage while leaping. Equipped with Dual Heat Swords, NO Ignis

 

Bastion: Replaces Shield Lancer

Cloned Flesh: 300

Alloy Armor: 200

Weapon: Kraken

Abilities: Blast Wall (Fire version of Electric Shield). Covered with armor plates, cannot be shot from front easily. Can be headshot sniped like Shield Lancer if careful, or staggered and shot.

 

Retaliator: Replaces Heavy Gunner

Shields: 600

Cloned Flesh: 300

Ferrite Armor: 100

Damage at level 30: Normal Fire Mode: 25 DPH, 50-125 DPS. Suppression Fire Mode: 100 DPH, 10xHit, 200 DPS.

Abilities: Seismic Shockwave, Suppression Fire. Retaliator covers a 180 degree frontal arc with HMG fire. Everything not behind cover will be hit 6-10 times, depending on dodging. Retaliator must be deployed to use Suppression Fire; once deployed, will use the ability every 5 seconds. If knocked down, must redeploy.

 

Grineer Elite Tier Philosophy: To alternate between forcing enemy into cover, then charging to force enemy out of cover. Widowmaker, Claymore, Elite Trooper, Pyro all do close-range damage and either have distance-closing abilities or area denial abilities, like Pyro's Fireblast. Taurus, Gargant, Elite Lancer, Bastion, Retaliator forces enemies into cover. Bastion protects Grineer positions and establish strongpoints. Gargant requires neutralization before firing or else will deal heavy damage. Taurus forces enemies to keep dodging/moving or take heavy damage. Retaliator forces enemies to hide in cover or else take heavy to overwhelming damage.

Example Combat Situation: Elite Lancers, Bastion, and Gargant move into position. Bastion provides cover for Elite Lancers, while Gargant sets up and forces Tenno into cover. Tenno kills Gargant. 2xRetaliator move into position. Tenno forced back into cover, whittling away Elite Lancers and Bastion. Wave of Pyros, Widowmakers, and Claymore's move in. Claymores and Pyros charge Tenno cover. Tenno must break from cover to avoid Pyro Fire Blasts and Claymore slash dashes. By this time, 1 Retaliator has been killed. Tauruses arrive. Tenno are forced to constantly move to avoid Stug fire and get into cover before 2nd Retaliator opens fire. Widowmakers close in on Tenno who are able to remain in cover and distract them.

1st Wave: Elite Lancers, Bastion, Gargant ----> Force Tenno into Cover.

2nd Wave: Retaliators ----> Keep Tenno in Cover.

3rd Wave: Pyros, Claymores ----> Disrupt Tenno positions, Force Tenno out of Cover.

4th Wave: Tauruses/Widowmakers ----> Force mobile Tenno to keep moving/find cover, force Tenno in cover to engage in melee.

5th Wave? More Gargants/Retaliators.

 

Corpus Elite Tier:

 

Corpus Suppressor: This unit would be a Crewman armed with a Penta. They would have a modified, sleeker more aggressive looking helmet, and armor pads on their forearms that protect their elbows as well. Penta would only fire three grenades max at a time, and would have timed explosion, not controlled.

Unit Purpose: Introduces dangerous AoE damage to Corpus which keeps players on their toes.

 

Corpus Jaeger: Would look like a thinner, faster Hyena. Its two forelegs would be bladed, and it would attack in close combat or cast Sonic Boom. Sonic Boom can only be cast half-as-often as a Shockwave Moa casts Shockwave.

Unit Purpose: A close-combat Corpus unit that can disrupt Tenno formations.

 

Corpus Tesla Osprey: Replaces the Mine Osprey. Drops Tesla grenades. Telsa grenades can be shot and destroyed.

Unit Purpose: Area denial.

 

Infested Elite Tier:

 

Infested Hunter: Looks like the Stalker from Dark Sector (Link: http://darksector.wikia.com/wiki/Stalker). Deals high-damage strikes every 2 seconds. Has the Teleport ability. Has Ancient level health.

Unit Purpose: Distance-closing and occupying enemy attention.

 

Ancient Voidstrider: Heavier version of Ancient. Cannot run or charge. Looks more buffed and armor-plated. Casts short-range low duration Vortex. Vortex can be escaped by dodging far enough away.

Unit Purpose: Pulls enemy Tenno into close range for evisceration by Infested brethren. Provides new environmental threat.

 

Ancient Erupter: Looks like a large Infested gorilla; something like the Colossus from Dark Sector (http://darksector.wikia.com/wiki/Colossus). Will do a leap and smash attack; upon landing, does a short-ranged and duration version of a Rhino Stomp, except Warframes are invulnerable while in the air, and can avoid the effects by dodging. When up close, will do normal, slow, high-damage attacks. Will also jump onto nearby walls, in order to do a leap and smash attack.

Unit Purpose: Super-heavy target which can disrupt Tenno formations, and require immediate reaction by players to avoid incapacitation.

 

What I'm really getting at: Having a new tier of maps with completely new enemy types would help make a distinct endgame. Giving those units abilities that require player reaction helps make a new endgame level of skill required. What I really want is to have maps FEEL different.

1. Coming into a map and fighting level 40+ Elite Lancers, Scorchers, Bombards and Shield Lancers doesn't FEEL different, except that they can kill me a lot quicker and take more shots to kill.

2. Coming into a map and being ambushed by invisible units, which I've never seen in the game before until that map, feels badass and forces me to readjust my game. Then having a squad of Claymores plow into my group's formation from 20 yards away using Slash Dash, pinning my group in close combat where usually I can mow down Butchers, Flameblades and Powerfists before they get anywhere close to me, feels badass. It's no longer about quantification (whether they deal more damage or take more damage), but qualification (having tactics which force me to adjust my gameplay).

 

Does this make sense? I want to have map tiers, and I want them to actually feel different because you have to fight badass new enemy types, not simply up-leveled standard mooks.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Jiufengbao

[AllanIncubi]

Haha wow these units would make the game very interested and more fun bring back a challenge to the game that doesnt require going over an hour in survival or 60+ waves in defense. The designs sound fun and since I been playing Natural Selection 2 lately the Hunter sounds like a fade which I love fighting and being :3. Ill give you +1 I would love to see you come up with more concepts on these units. Please refine them by giving armor values/hp and their abilities maybe even get someone to draw up a concept art :P

[Wrath_Of_Chrysalis]

I want this. I mean really! A LATRON PRIME HEADSHOT (not crit) kills a bombard In a single shot. We need better enemies.

[Zlatko_Medvedec]

These are some pretty great ideas if i do say so myself!
It would definetly force the Tenno to work more as a team but at it stands now most people dont even comunicate during mission for god knows what reason.. that will probably be solved once we get the reputation system but we don't really know when that's coming..
Without propper comunication there would be a lot of failed missions.
Still i like this, you're on a good road! Just do as AllanIncubi said and refine the concepts a bit more. If you require assistance you need just ask xP

[BadAimbot]

I'm all for more enemy types, especially for the Infested. However, I don't think that the current enemy types need to disappear on higher level areas. Instead, they should concentrate on each node having different combinations of enemies. For example, throw Anti-MOAs on a couple of nodes for the higher level planets like Pluto, but not all of them. Do that for every enemy, and each mission will feel different, each having their own combinations of enemies to fight. Defense in particular desperately needs this.

[Zlatko_Medvedec]

^ This idea is really good, it goes along the lines of modern RPG's like Final Fantasy XIII where every battle is like a puzzle each having different combinations of enemies but not being random.
If you know what you are gonna be fighting in advance you can be better prepared for it and even enjoy it more.

That would require a major rework of the game's code and spawn mechanics though...
 

[BadAimbot]

^ This idea is really good, it goes along the lines of modern RPG's like Final Fantasy XIII where every battle is like a puzzle each having different combinations of enemies but not being random.

If you know what you are gonna be fighting in advance you can be better prepared for it and even enjoy it more.

That would require a major rework of the game's code and spawn mechanics though...

 

 

I don't think so. On old Eris there was a mission that spawned every type of Crawler except Toxic ones, but it didn't have Runners. They just haven't expanded on the idea very much.

[Zlatko_Medvedec]

I was unaware of that tho i did notice a mission with a bunch of electric crawlers and one with a bunch of toxic ones.
But with the invasion thing i dont see that happening again anytime soon.

[Tigercloud]

I'm all for more enemy types, especially for the Infested. However, I don't think that the current enemy types need to disappear on higher level areas. Instead, they should concentrate on each node having different combinations of enemies. For example, throw Anti-MOAs on a couple of nodes for the higher level planets like Pluto, but not all of them. Do that for every enemy, and each mission will feel different, each having their own combinations of enemies to fight. Defense in particular desperately needs this.

 

I like this idea too. I think it would help make people more interested in playing a lot of the "play through once to unlock then never do again" missions. The only thing is I don't think this solves the feeling of stagnation you get once you've fought all the enemy types at lower level difficulties. Division/separation is necessary to give the illusion of new ground. When you get to a new area in a game and you're fighting enemies you've never encountered before, you get the feeling of "Oh whoa, I'm in new territory now!" At present, we veterans already *know* all the enemies. There's no new level, plane, or dimension where we know we've entered hardmode. Void used to be that, but since those enemies are all pretty much rehashes of faction enemies, it wasn't very interesting in the first place.

 

So, I *want* a division, a line where once you step over it, you're fighting new enemies which all have abilities that make you have to react to them rather than just gun them down. Like Heroic mode for WoW raids. Even if it's an illusory line, there needs to be something to distinguish "endgame", and new enemies to encounter helps do that, I think.

 

I'm glad people like the concepts though. I'll work on putting up a refined enemy table for each faction, with stats.