Prime Weapons, Should They All Excel Somewhere?

[Makya]

Prime weapons are 'gifts' of the RNG gods which are difficult to gather and collect compared to other weapons. Looking over the weapons I noticed that most primes, if not all were rather lacking.

 

Full-auto Rifle, Braton Prime: This is weapon is not even in the top five full auto rifles in terms of damage nor in ammo conservation. This seems wrong to me, shouldn't this weapon at least be within the top three for damage per second?

 

Burst Rifle, Burston Prime: This is the top burst rifle in the game, and one of the top five rifles in terms of damage per second and ammo conservation. Shouldn't this be a ideal the other prime weapons should follow?

 

Semi-auto Rifle, Latron Prime: This is the top semi-auto rifle in the game, though it is not one of the top five rifles in damage per second it is one of the best(the the best) at ammo conservation and is one of the most accurate rifles shy of a sniper rifle.

 

Full-auto Shotgun, Boar Prime: This is the top full-auto shotgun in terms of damage per second, but not in range nor ammo conservation. A fair trade.

 

One-handed Semo-auto Pistol, Lato Prime: This weapon currently is in a sorry state, especially for a founder weapon. Like the Braton Prime, this weapon is not within the top five of its class in terms of damage per second, or ammo conservation. Shouldn't this weapon come close to excelling somewhere?

 

The Bronco Prime and the Sicarus Prime are not talked about as their class of weapons are only made of of their own variants, though both are lack luster. The Bronco prime, which gives up much in terms of range for damage is out performed by the Akbolto and Akvasto who can do such at a much farther distance. The Sicarus Prime is rather low on the list being weaker than most sidearms, fairing weaker than the Aklato in damage per second.

 

(I will not touch on Bows as I don't know how to properly compare Paris Prime to the Dread, both feel like Prime weapons to me, though I do feel the Paris should have a moderate buff to close or remove the gap between these weapons.)

[Zephyric_Reaper]

Orthos prime is god though. 

Burston is kinda meh in my opinion. Sure it's the best burst but burst weapons quite suck as is. 

[Un1337ninj4]

The Lato is meant not to excel at anything, therefore it's supposed to appear near bottom-midway, Prime should and is an upgrade.

 

And I don't know about you but my Sicarus Prime is quite a nice weapon, mid-range getting 6 headshots about 1/3 being crits.... Not a bad weapon, and worth it in my humble opinion. <--Not finished yet but it does well vs near-high level Grinees.

Edited January 3, 2014 by un1337ninj4

[Makya]

Why should the Lato Prime be near the bottom and not excel anywhere compared to others of its class, it is a prime after all. The Sicarus while it can be accurate does not even excel at long range shots, there is nothing really notable about the weapon sadly.

[Archistopheles]

Primes are trophies, nothing more.

[Makya]

Primes are trophies, nothing more.

That is what they are now for some(Braton, Lato, Sicarus), but not all(Burston, Latron, Boar). Shouldn't the trophies become more than just something to polish and remember how much you farmed for a semi useless tool?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Makya

[Archistopheles]

That is what they are now for some(Braton, Lato, Sicarus), but not all(Burston, Latron, Boar). Shouldn't the trophies become more than just something to polish and remember how much you farmed for a semi useless tool?

 

No, because if you boost them to top tier, you hide power behind a grind/pay wall.

 

If DE is going to continue selling Prime Access, they cannot make Primes the best weapon in their class.

 

Their current system works perfectly. Top tier weapons are available in the market to all players. Specialized weapons are behind clan walls, and Prime Trophies are behind pay-or-grind walls. Anyone can compete in any part of the game with a prime weapon, but the "best" weapons are available to everyone.

[Makya]

No, because if you boost them to top tier, you hide power behind a grind/pay wall.

What is wrong behind putting them behind a 'grind wall'? If you didn't realize, the best weapons are behind a grind wall of event exclusives, such as the Wraith weapons and Brakk. Is the only place to grind and have a good reward for such Events and never open season? Also, I have already stated, three primes are the top in one way or another.

 

If DE is going to continue selling Prime Access, they cannot make Primes the best weapon in their class.

'Prime Access' does not offer all Prime Weapons, only two currently, both of which are unique and top of their class.. as they are they only ones in their class.

 

 

Their current system works perfectly. Top tier weapons are available in the market to all players. Specialized weapons are behind clan walls, and Prime Trophies are behind pay-or-grind walls. Anyone can compete in any part of the game with a prime weapon, but the "best" weapons are available to everyone.

The top rifle is right now a toss up, the Soma is now not unquestioned, the rifles are a Prime and Clan tech. The top Sniper rifle is from an event, the top shotgun is from an event, the top pistol was from an event, the top bow is a split between a Prime and a bow from the Stalker. Can you clarify what you mean by 'top tier' seeing as it doesn't seem to mean 'the best'.

[Archistopheles]

You're missing the point, Makya.

 

Penta, Soma, and Stug are "top tier." They are also available to all players. Vectis out performs Snipetron vandal, but that's not the point.

 

The point is that players have the best weapons available to them so that they can then go out and get the fun weapons. Prime weapons are fun. They sound cool, look cool, and are fun to use.

 

They aren't terrible, but they should not be better than the weapons anyone can get.

[Makya]

The Snipetron Vandal outperforms the Vectis in DPS for a start. Now can you explain what 'top tier' means? The penta does less damage than the Ogris, and.. what class is the Stug supposed to be? If it is just sidearm the Brakk is better.You also did not dispute the Primes nor the Exclusives I listed as best of their class

 

Also define 'fun to use' when comparing a prime to another of its class? 

[Archistopheles]

The Snipetron Vandal outperforms the Vectis in DPS for a start. Now can you explain what 'top tier' means? The penta does less damage than the Ogris, and.. what class is the Stug supposed to be? If it is just sidearm the Brakk is better.

 

Where are you getting your numbers?

[Makya]

Where are you getting your numbers?

DPSFrame

[Archistopheles]

No. We're getting off track again.

 

Lets throw out the fun bit, lets go back to the core of the argument: Prime weapons should excel somewhere.

 

They do excel. No prime weapon is bad. The Latron Prime isn't that great, but it's still effective vs Grineer.

 

However, if they were too good, then gameplay in terms of player's gaining power would be limited by a grind/rng wall. The rich would have the best weapons because they can afford to buy unlimited keys/chances at these weapons, and the free to players would be left in the dust.

 

This is compounded by Prime Access. Look to the future: What happens when Rhino Prime comes along sporting a new Soma Prime? If it's clearly better than other weapons, players will be upset because DE is then selling power.

[DHKany]

lol Bronco Prime and Sicarius Prime are great secondaries. 

 

If those are mediocre, I dont even want to take a look at your 'good' secondaries. 

Also, Akbolto and Akvasto DPS is hidden behind good framerate (not for everyone, me included) and macros that allow you to reach 100% ROF ALL THE TIME (which is nigh impossible to do manually.) 

[Makya]

They do excel. No prime weapon is bad.

What does the Braton, Lato or Sicarus Prime excel at?

 

I stated that the Latron Prime is not the higest DPS, but it is the the most ammo efficient rifle as well as the hardest hitting per shot, surpassed only by sniper rifles. So, yes, it is great and actually one of my favorite guns. It works against all factions rather well.

 

 

However, if they were too good, then gameplay in terms of player's gaining power would be limited by a grind/rng wall. The rich would have the best weapons because they can afford to buy unlimited keys/chances at these weapons, and the free to players would be left in the dust.

Seeing as key trades between players is common, the ability to get keys for free is easy, free players will not be left in the dust. Often to run those towers more quickly people foolish enough to pay plat to DE for keys(you can buy them off plays for a fraction of that cost) will recruit others to have them farm quickly.. which results in non playing people getting the items just as quickly.

 

 

This is compounded by Prime Access. Look to the future: What happens when Rhino Prime comes along sporting a new Soma Prime? If it's clearly better than other weapons, players will be upset because DE is then selling power.

Seeing as players are upset with DE for just about every move they make, nothing new there. I never said Primes should be better than everything else of their tier, I said they should excel as I showed the examples: Latron(stopping power/ammo efficiency/lacks dps), Boar(massive dps/poor ammo efficiency) and the Burston(good dps, not best but one of top/efficient ammo use, not the best but one of the top). If they make a Soma Prime, it would be the Soma++, better than the Soma in most, if not all ways. Now if that makes it clearly better than any other weapon, they speaks more of the Soma than Primes excelling.

 

 

lol Bronco Prime and Sicarius Prime are great secondaries. 

 

If those are mediocre, I dont even want to take a look at your 'good' secondaries. 

Also, Akbolto and Akvasto DPS is hidden behind good framerate (not for everyone, me included) and macros that allow you to reach 100% ROF ALL THE TIME (which is nigh impossible to do manually.) 

I have never had FPS issues with Warframe it runs rather light on my system, never took that into account. Seeing Bronco Prime might suffer similarly I won't compare them to the rest. As for the Sicarius.. its DPS and burst capability are a little less then the Furis, let alone afuris. How is that a 'great' secondary?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Makya

[Archistopheles]

What does the Braton, Lato or Sicarus Prime excel at?

 

 

Lato Prime doesn't exist.

 

Braton Prime excels at killing Infested and Grineer as a balanced medium range rifle.

 

Sicarus has double the Puncture and Slash damages of Sicarus, so it also excels at killing Infested and Grineer.

 

One could easily take both weapons to wave 50 Infested/Grineer defense

[Kiteless]

I, for one, wouldn't mind having my Skana Prime being not a useless waste of inventory space.

[YBD215]

Latron Prime is...     A W E S O M E ! ! ! I don't know much about the rest, but I have used my Latron with Excalibur to do hour long survivals of every type.