Yastin Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Might I point out my suggested archery mods? XD Sorry to toot my own topic's horn, but here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/162482-new-archery-mods/#entry1904261 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serialkillerwhale Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Not my fault the chinese never invented the tower shield. The Romans had the neigh invulnerable "Tortoise" Fromation, which was the rock to the mongol's arrow scissors. Overall the mongols would run out of arrows, be forced to retreat, and eventually broken when they couldn't run any more. More on-topic. Yes, a Gladius would be awesome. Edited January 24, 2014 by Serialkillerwhale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilKam Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Okay, more medieval weapon porn here then. It's a good thing the Romans hadn't come across the English Longbow, which punched right through the armor of the day. HAHA. Honestly, I almost have a hard time fathoming how the muskets managed to gain any ground. Sure you could outfit a team of untrained savages with the gun, but god help them if they were not in giant formations. Volley Fire was their only hope of hitting anything, and that's only if the gun didn't blow your own face of when it exploded on account of not being made of the finest steel in the land, plus the monstrous clouds of smoke, eardrum shattering noise... However, I guess the fact that you could stockpile a thousand of the blasted things (HAHA EPIC PUN) and when trouble came looking, any press gang of mediocre peasants could be given a 3 minute class on how to not intentionally blow off all their fingers, and probably after that first volley when the scarecrows used as training dummies were shredded to hot obliteration, everyone just kinda went "WOAH Guvnuh'! 'Ese things arrrr Bluddey Great" Okay, I want an Arquebus now in Warframe. A giant, nearly worthless, smoke machine that randomly kills one freaking enemy somewhere in a 270 degree arc, no matter what, but with a 50% random chance to sever your spine and remove your head from your neck, costing you a revive. And a 40 second reload time. I know there was a point to this whole thing when I started. Uh... Oh yeah. Longbows rocked. Even after the days of the vaunted English Yew Long Bow. Fast Forward a to the 1700s. In the conquering of North America, our finest English muskets were devastatingly outclassed by these pesky natives, who had bows. Note: Musket range was about 70 yards. Native Bows had a range of about 70 yards, but were ACCURATE HAHAHAHA. Oh, and the Fire rate? Forget about it! Discovery Channel had a thing about a battle in the territory now known as New York State. Militiamen were sent to get their grubby mitts on some really good land. They were massacred because the militia had muskets. The natives kept their lands. Fast Forwards a hundred years to when Union troops were dispatched with much better breech loader weapons. Those pesky natives wouldn't stand a chance! Oh wait, the Natives had spent 50 years trading skins, furs, and saving up the money from being wilderness guides to buy the totally awesome new LEVER ACTION rifles. GUESS WHO WON THIS TIME? Turns out that a lever action with 10 shots fires a LOT MORE BULLETS than a FREAKING BREECH loader. Who doesn't love history lessons? See? Warframe is part of a balanced education! Also, Killerwhale, I repp'ed your post. I like your "@#$! it Space Ninjas" line. I've done that before, started arguing a point, and then realized that no, I had no freaking argument really, and with "Magical Space Ninjas", lots of conventional wisdom can be spat upon, and then have it's mom joked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaveCricket48 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Allowing bows to reach 100% crit and proc chance would alleviate some of the issues, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaths.Reap3r Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Allowing bows to reach 100% crit and proc chance would alleviate some of the issues, I think. Nah. Thats just adding to the damage I think. And bows already do a fair amount of damage right now... And umm.. Evil Kam... I don't know what your point was with that 10 paragraph essay... I think this discussions getting a LITTLE sidetracked lol. I'm just asking for a simple DPS Buff... lol Also... WHOS THAT DAM ANONYMOUS USER! SHOW YOUR SELF! I can't stand not knowing who that anonymous user thats following this thread is lol. SHOW YOUR SELF! Edited January 25, 2014 by Deaths.Reap3r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaveCricket48 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Nah. Thats just adding to the damage I think. And bows already do a fair amount of damage right now... It wouldn't just allow them to do more damage, but would give them more consistent damage as well. Right now the highest crit chance you can have on the Paris Prime is like 50%, so it's a coin toss of whether or not you're actually going to kill something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serialkillerwhale Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The problem with zeh longbow is that it couldn't get past a Roman Scrotom Scutum, which was probably the second best shield of all time (After the insanely awesome Spartan one). The reason guns were better was because of simple brute force. A musket ball could go straight through plate, and the underleather and underunderclothe, while most arrows would get stuck on the underlayers. Furthermore, muskets were "point and clicK" whereas you had to train a longbow man by starting with his grandparents, so that he is born with two generations of longbow in his genes. This way the guy can spend more time learning to do settler things rather than shooty things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaths.Reap3r Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Ok so... a bump to get this back up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I would comment something. But I'm tired and most of everything has been said I think. Might sleep on it and get back to you Reap3r when I've got more creativity(And cereal) in me because I definitely want to help the Bow cause to make them awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon_Mask Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 YAY help fix bows! I'm going to bed, please DE take the positive points of this thread on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Perhaps if bows are meant to be stealth kings then how about an arrow mod that doesn't alert enemies to when they're being damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon_Mask Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That sounds like a paralysis arrow, or even a net arrow. I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaths.Reap3r Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Perhaps if bows are meant to be stealth kings then how about an arrow mod that doesn't alert enemies to when they're being damaged? But then its too op lol... Loki anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 But then its too op lol... Loki anyone? Not really. Enemies still become on alert whenever they see a buddy dead. See you for an instant after that and someone is running for the alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnileoleman Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 But no, bows were never "King" That was infantry The most influential forces on the battlefield were cavalry, pike men, and archers. Unless, of course, you were besieging a castle, where cavalry would be useless. Point of the matter is; bows were one of the powerhouses of the battlefield. You can thank Hollywood for the notion that swords ruled the battlefield, and the myth that is about to be debunked below. Okay, more medieval weapon porn here then. It's a good thing the Romans hadn't come across the English Longbow, which punched right through the armor of the day. HAHA. I thought this as well, especially when bodkin arrows were concerned. However, over at the forums for Sui Generis (indie game) I met a man who takes part in a combination of historical re-enactment/mosh pit. He spends a good deal of his time researching, and wearing, full plate armor. Turns out bows and armor were in a constant arms race, until firearms became a bigger concern. A steel bodkin point won't do much against 2mm of tempered steel. You could shoot a man in plate with a deer slug and barely leave a dent. (Though the shock of the impact would be deadly without proper padding) Since he is more qualified than myself to make that judgment, I believe him. While I realize that roman troops did not wear steel plate, the point of the matter is; armor was designed to keep people alive. It was popular because it worked. This is not to say that bows aren't absolutely terrifying to less armored people. I saw both of these inaccurate statements and, since everyone is an expert on the internet, decided to reply. You may be thankful, that someone decided to take some time out of their day to show the truth of something. Perhaps you may view me as some great deity, though I doubt it. Most likely, I will be viewed as a know-it-all or pretentious *ss-hat. Whatever your reaction, Have a nice day. (I apologize for bringing these from a page back, but it might make for good conversation) While I'm at it, I use bows (and even made a few) they make a very loud *thump* when they fire. But, space ninjas...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaths.Reap3r Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 The most influential forces on the battlefield were cavalry, pike men, and archers. Unless, of course, you were besieging a castle, where cavalry would be useless. Point of the matter is; bows were one of the powerhouses of the battlefield. You can thank Hollywood for the notion that swords ruled the battlefield, and the myth that is about to be debunked below. I thought this as well, especially when bodkin arrows were concerned. However, over at the forums for Sui Generis (indie game) I met a man who takes part in a combination of historical re-enactment/mosh pit. He spends a good deal of his time researching, and wearing, full plate armor. Turns out bows and armor were in a constant arms race, until firearms became a bigger concern. A steel bodkin point won't do much against 2mm of tempered steel. You could shoot a man in plate with a deer slug and barely leave a dent. (Though the shock of the impact would be deadly without proper padding) Since he is more qualified than myself to make that judgment, I believe him. While I realize that roman troops did not wear steel plate, the point of the matter is; armor was designed to keep people alive. It was popular because it worked. This is not to say that bows aren't absolutely terrifying to less armored people. I saw both of these inaccurate statements and, since everyone is an expert on the internet, decided to reply. You may be thankful, that someone decided to take some time out of their day to show the truth of something. Perhaps you may view me as some great deity, though I doubt it. Most likely, I will be viewed as a know-it-all or pretentious *ss-hat. Whatever your reaction, Have a nice day. (I apologize for bringing these from a page back, but it might make for good conversation) While I'm at it, I use bows (and even made a few) they make a very loud *thump* when they fire. But, space ninjas...... I dont understand why we're talking about history... This is the future haha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garuger Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 How dare you saying Cernos is weak take it back D:.I have 4 forma on it and i regret nothing NOTHING I SAID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serialkillerwhale Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately my point still stands. Infantry was the queen of the battlefield until artillery became the king and we all know what the king does to the queen. Annd yes, infantry, that is men with a stabby, clubby or slashy weapon on the prefered footwear of the time, were the bread and butter of the battlefield. Cavalry did run roughshod over infantry, but only heavy cataphract, mameluke, or knightly ones, who could only come in so many numbers while infantry were easily trained and equipped. a Shield can take quite alot of arrows to put down, especially if used properly, and yet still an infantryman is easier to train than an archer or cavalryman. The vision of a bow cutting through shields is just that, a vision, shields may crack or splinter, arrows were quite ineffective against a shield wall of any kind. Edited February 1, 2014 by Serialkillerwhale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick720 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Unfortunately my point still stands. Infantry was the queen of the battlefield until artillery became the king and we all know what the king does to the queen. ...wait what? Artillery as king? You mean long ranged weapons that shot projectiles that could kill enemies at a distance? Like a bow? Didn't you just say that bows historically sucked? On topic, one easy way to make bows good is to give them a significantly higher status chance than anything else. Lets say that a fully maximized Dread has a 90% chance to inflict status? It increases damage, gives bows a niche that is useful, and actually makes them at least somewhat useful in situations that aren't 100% stealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble_Cactus Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Was it ever confirmed that status procs provide additional damage on hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serialkillerwhale Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 ...wait what? Artillery as king? You mean long ranged weapons that shot projectiles that could kill enemies at a distance? Like a bow? Didn't you just say that bows historically sucked? On topic, one easy way to make bows good is to give them a significantly higher status chance than anything else. Lets say that a fully maximized Dread has a 90% chance to inflict status? It increases damage, gives bows a niche that is useful, and actually makes them at least somewhat useful in situations that aren't 100% stealthy. The reason artillery was king was it's sheer power. A big 155mm Howtizer can't be bulled past with armor, back in the day a gunpowder cannon would fire a massive metal ball through lines of infantry, napoleon's use of cannons won him europe artillery was the only thing a man in a trench truly feared other than gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon_Mask Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The reason artillery was king was it's sheer power. A big 155mm Howtizer can't be bulled past with armor, back in the day a gunpowder cannon would fire a massive metal ball through lines of infantry, napoleon's use of cannons won him europe artillery was the only thing a man in a trench truly feared other than gas. Sssssooooooooooooooooooooooo. Say for instance..... The guy firing the stationary cannon, aiming at a mass of infantry. Not at all protected from a sniper outside of the centre of the action with a well placed arrow to the head of the gunner doesnt even rate a mention......? Good job being one sided. Anyway warframe is NOT based of earth history. Tenno are a race who obviously see value in bows and percision, where as grineer are a more heavy weapon race. So i really dont see why you are even shutting down everyidea in this pro fix bows thread. You should instead be making your own thread about how you think DE should have given players the option to choose a faction to play as because you so despiratly want to be a bombarder or heavy gunner, instead of only being sleek and percise tenno. So go on, go start this thread, ill be sure to get everyone here to come completly shut down any good idea there is just because we dont think it suits our play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnileoleman Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Sorry for helping to derail this thread, I'm currently leveling Dread and Cernos and must agree that they fire reeeaaaaallllyyyy slowly. That's not to say that I don't love them :D Turning enemies into wall art is probably very therapeutic. Serialkillerwhale: Your point has actually been hobbled quite effectively. In addition, by the time artillery came into play a large portion of an army would be composed of men with guns, (Hmmmmmm, men with ranged weapons, where have I heard that before?) plate armor was falling out of fashion, along with cavalry. In conclusion; you are wrong from a historical standpoint, and in your stubborn belief that making bows playable is going to affect you in any way. TLDR: STFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappy330 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 How dare you saying Cernos is weak take it back D:.I have 4 forma on it and i regret nothing NOTHING I SAID Not having regrets doesn't make someone good or strong, I have a 8 forma MK-1 braton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serialkillerwhale Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Sorry for helping to derail this thread, I'm currently leveling Dread and Cernos and must agree that they fire reeeaaaaallllyyyy slowly. That's not to say that I don't love them :D Turning enemies into wall art is probably very therapeutic. Serialkillerwhale: Your point has actually been hobbled quite effectively. In addition, by the time artillery came into play a large portion of an army would be composed of men with guns, (Hmmmmmm, men with ranged weapons, where have I heard that before?) plate armor was falling out of fashion, along with cavalry. In conclusion; you are wrong from a historical standpoint, and in your stubborn belief that making bows playable is going to affect you in any way. TLDR: STFU Your entire arguement is based on equating guns with bows, and equating bows with cannons. I'm just gonna mention that just plain doesn't add up. For one, that sniper would fail One, the time during which cannons ruled the day were innacurate, and bows were once again, at that range, volley weapons. Furthermore, what is a man with a rifle in lines called? What soldier was he derived from? The pikeman, formations of pikemen and riflemen replaced those of pure pikemen, being even more powerful, but then rifles advanced to have bayonets and reload faster, allowing pikes to be phased out for a entire formation riflemen with bayonets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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