Luck Is The Only Way To Progress In Update 7.

[Akunim-Ra]

ok the main problem is that we can't choose what style of play we want

let me give you an example: I play ash the main stealth based warframe i want to base my play entirly around stealth

but the only mods that im getting are based around a more aggressive play style for someone who enjoys playing rhino or excalibur

so i can play the game like i want because im not getting the stealth based mods i want hence the idea that now because of the update the only way to progress is by luck and or buying the modpacks for platinum which is still based around luck so there is no way that we can deside how we want to play

so now we have to fit into a role that we get by a roll of the dice rather then being able to pick tech tree upgrades that allow me to choose what style i want to go with.

[Tebbo]

You work with what you get initially.

Then over time you keep the things you like and improve them (fusion) using the things you are replacing with stuff you like more.

How is that different than before where you slotted anything you found at first because anything was an improvement. Then over time you started switching them out for better stuff that fit what you wanted and selling the old ones.

The only difference is now you have a use for stuff that doesn't fit in with your scheme other than just selling. When you find something you like you can keep it and have it grow with you instead of having to hope you find a better version.

I don't see how that's inferior in any way.

[Splosions]

You work with what you get initially.

Then over time you keep the things you like and improve them (fusion) using the things you are replacing with stuff you like more.

How is that different than before where you slotted anything you found at first because anything was an improvement. Then over time you started switching them out for better stuff that fit what you wanted and selling the old ones.

The only difference is now you have a use for stuff that doesn't fit in with your scheme other than just selling. When you find something you like you can keep it and have it grow with you instead of having to hope you find a better version.

I don't see how that's inferior in any way.

Because before the update there was natural progression. You got HP/Shields/MP Gun dmg/ammo/firerate just by leveling. The basic necessities came because you leveled up, not because you found something lying on the ground. THAT is why a lot of players are up in arms. The ENTIRE progression of the game is now based upon dumb luck.

The basic necessstities need to be put back to being based on character/gun level not soley based on what mod cards you have.

Mods should be just that, MODIFICATIONS not the entire game

Edited March 26, 2013 by Splosions

[Tebbo]

I guess.

The new system is a far superior system fundamentally.

So drop rates and values need to be tweaked, ok, granted.

The game is in beta these are the kinds of things we're playing to help figure out.

The old system was basic but also limited. It worked for where the game was at the time but the new system is here and it is superior. Don't blame things on the system, blame it on the values.

[Aggh]

Solo phorid run up and processing:

http://youtu.be/cH-xlJf7zOw

Clearly a shield mod is a a must. Or not.

ok the main problem is that we can't choose what style of play we want

let me give you an example: I play ash the main stealth based warframe i want to base my play entirly around stealth

but the only mods that im getting are based around a more aggressive play style for someone who enjoys playing rhino or excalibur

so i can play the game like i want because im not getting the stealth based mods i want hence the idea that now because of the update the only way to progress is by luck and or buying the modpacks for platinum which is still based around luck so there is no way that we can deside how we want to play

so now we have to fit into a role that we get by a roll of the dice rather then being able to pick tech tree upgrades that allow me to choose what style i want to go with.

Stealth based mods? Rush (run speed), Marathon (max stam), Quick rest (stam recharge), Pressure point (melee damage) are all pretty easy to get, just run some defense or rush raid missions (it doesn't have to be m prime, m prime is just the best because it can be rushed quickly). Flow (mx power) is a bit more rare (I've only gotten 2) but isn't quite as worth it.

Organ shatter (+crit damage) and the + crit chance (forgot the name, it's not really worth it as it is now though)is probably the only one that takes a bit of time to get, but grinding defense missions will get you one in a reasonable amount of time.

Streamline (power efficiency) is probably one of the easiest ones to get. I don't know if it's bugged or something but it is almost always the reward for the endless defense mission on xini. If anyone needs it I'll gladly carry for 5 rounds as nyx there.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[NazFTW]

Solo phorid run up and processing:

http://youtu.be/cH-xlJf7zOw

Clearly a shield mod is a a must. Or not.

Oh god, I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes. If you had a shred of any credibility it's all gone now.

[Aggh]

Oh god, I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes. If you had a shred of any credibility it's all gone now.

Ikr? Didn't disprove whinin's assertion that you have to have a shield mod to run phorid at all. Being able to get this level of survivability is incredibly easy by the time you've cleared the path to phorid btw.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Splosions]

Oh god, I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes. If you had a shred of any credibility it's all gone now.

+1

Aggh remind me of Vermine Supreme. Just needs a boot.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Splosions

[Aggh]

+1

Aggh remind me of Vermine Supreme. Just needs a boot.

Yay for ad hominems after your argument has been disproven! Why bother with a rebuttal when you can just insult someone?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Splosions]

Why bother to play the game when you can just glitch the boss!?

Fixed.

You are silly.

[Aggh]

Fixed.

You are silly.

LOOOOOOOOOOL!

I thought that you had a good point. I could easily just strafe around it in the open. I glitched it for the sake of time b/c I only had 10 gb of space on my ssd.

[ConnieMnemonic]

I haven't gotten a single HP/Shield mod and I did fine.

You got to use your brain more often, bro. Strategy is your best skill.

This. I'm cruising along just fine, and I'm still on 100/100 health and shields. I ran into a wall for a while, then I kind of realised I was being way too gung-ho and getting my &#! handed to me because I was basically throwing myself at enemy bullets. Speed and rampage where you need it, patience where you don't, that's my motto.

[Splosions]

LOOOOOOOOOOL!

I thought that you had a good point. I could easily just strafe around it in the open. I glitched it for the sake of time b/c I only had 10 gb of space on my ssd.

Sounds like a personal problem. Why don't you clear some space and ACTUALY prove me wrong.

[kaizoku222]

This. I'm cruising along just fine, and I'm still on 100/100 health and shields. I ran into a wall for a while, then I kind of realised I was being way too gung-ho and getting my &#! handed to me because I was basically throwing myself at enemy bullets. Speed and rampage where you need it, patience where you don't, that's my motto.

If you have 75hp/75shield, the only option you have is patience in any content past level 15. The nerf to survivability slowed the game down, which is directly against the kind of combat that is fun in this game. If you build a frame to be an aggressive melee tech ninja, that spec should be just as viable as a slow long range sniper that's 100% safe all mission. The problem is melee and aggressive play got a huge nerf and is not viable anymore unless you max a couple survivability mods which can take a really long time and a ton of credits.

[CosyPigeon]

Also, this is an open forum. If you don't like people discussing the flaws in your arguments, don't bother posting them.

What discussion? Your entire argument thus far has been "Well me and a bunch of people I know haven't had any problems so everything is peachy".

You pretty much ignored everything I said and then claimed I resembled some other guy who has made a bunch of complaints that I never made.

I know I'm not restricted to Mercury, I don't have much trouble playing the game, and I recently got a shield mod after an absurd amount of grinding on Mars, but guess what, all of that grinding sucked, why? Because RNG is fickle. It still took way longer than your own personal experiences, and whilst I put up with it because I enjoy other aspects of the game and had already been playing for a while. New players are unlikely to make the same commitment.

I suppose it doesn't matter though. Once you read this you're just going to say "Oh it's not a problem, my friend so and so found a vitality mod so it's fine, if I'm not having these problems so it's inconceivable anyone else might be."

[WhiteSteel]

Completely disagree. You're mostly feeling the effect of the respec that came with update 7. I play loki and I could already melee like crazy without much shield. You need strategy and to use cover, this is not a button masher you know? Now that the mod effects themselves are no longer random you actually are less dependent to luck than you were before. All you really need is to get one of the mod you want and from there you can always prioritize it and upgrading it.

[CosyPigeon]

You probably wasted time killing everything in sight and looting everything you can find like every single other scrub that doesn't understand why m prime is a good place to grind for HP mods.

....... So the core mechanics of game play... Is wasting time, and people who I dunno, might be playing the game because they enjoy the game play, are scrubs? 0.o

If it's more efficient to speed run a level rather than actually play the game, that would suggest bad game design. If your are actively avoiding playing the game becuase "it's more efficient" to just speed run through a level, then the game design is flawed.

[CosyPigeon]

All you really need is to get one of the mod you want and from there you can always prioritize it and upgrading it.

Yes, and wether you get that "one mod you want" is entirely determined by luck. Numerous player's having trouble finding their white whale of the mods because RNG gods are fickle.

also, even though I've said ti before numerous times in this and other threads, I'll say it again for your benefit.

1. I don't care about the reset, that's not the issue here.

2. I don't have any problem with the mod system itself, it's great as a mod system, but bad as the sole means of progression because it is entirely luck based.

[WhiteSteel]

Fair enough. But you have to admit that the odds that you won't get that "one mod you want" after playing for a while are thin, and the percentage of players who might feel that pain is small. You also have to admit that the fact that mods no longer have random values does reduce the amount of luck you need for the game by A LOT.

Edited March 26, 2013 by WhiteSteel

[CosyPigeon]

Fair enough. But you have to admit that the odds that you won't get that "one mod you want" after playing for a while are thin, and the percentage of players who might feel that pain is small. You also have to admit that the fact that mods no longer have random values does reduce the amount of luck you need for the game by A LOT.

Well no, I don't have to admit that, since the mod most people want is a shield mod, and it took me ages to get one, and numerous other people have not been so fortunate.

And whilst individual mods no longer have random values. considering that you need literally thousands of mods to fuse them to max rank (assuming you don't have millions of credits and pages of fusion cores) the randomness element is still there. But thats a different discussion for a different thread, my main issue, mod drops are random, and mods are the only way to increase anything about your warframe. It wouldn't be an issue if leveling up gave you passive stat bonuses, or if 'common' mods wherent so absurdly difficult for many people to find. But currently it is.

[WhiteSteel]

lol now you sound like a troll! You're saying that you don't believe that the odds of not getting a shield mod after playing for a while are thin? You're acting delusional! So you come here and say "HEY! Just because you people managed to get a shield mod it doesn't mean they are easy to get!" but afterwards you say "I didn't get a shield mod, that means they are really hard to get." Come on man...

[CosyPigeon]

lol now you sound like a troll! You're saying that you don't believe that the odds of not getting a shield mod after playing for a while are thin? You're acting delusional! So you come here and say "HEY! Just because you people managed to get a shield mod it doesn't mean they are easy to get!" but afterwards you say "I didn't get a shield mod, that means they are really hard to get." Come on man...

RNG is fickle, is easy for some people to get shield mods, hard for others. And yes, it does sound trollish doesn't it. Which is why it's bad game design. Some people are getting sheild mods relatively easilly, and others aren't getting any at all.

[WhiteSteel]

And whilst individual mods no longer have random values. considering that you need literally thousands of mods to fuse them to max rank (assuming you don't have millions of credits and pages of fusion cores) the randomness element is still there. But thats a different discussion for a different thread, my main issue, mod drops are random, and mods are the only way to increase anything about your warframe. It wouldn't be an issue if leveling up gave you passive stat bonuses, or if 'common' mods wherent so absurdly difficult for many people to find. But currently it is.

First off, you don't need to max a mod as soon as you get it. Shield mods for example make quite a difference already just at rank 1 and it's enough to do a lot of missions. You can't get OP instantly, that is GOOD game design. And you hardly need thousands of mods to max a mod. The number of mods of the same card that you need to get to the next rank is 2^(current rank). Consider a mod that goes up to rank 5:

rank 0=>1

2^0=1

rank 1=>2

2^1=2

rank 2=>3

2^2=4

rank 3=>4

2^3=8

rank 4=>5

2^4=16

TOTAL: 31 (aka thousands)

RNG is fickle, is easy for some people to get shield mods, hard for others. And yes, it does sound trollish doesn't it. Which is why it's bad game design. Some people are getting sheild mods relatively easilly, and others aren't getting any at all.

Shield mods are already common rarity, what they could do is increase their drop chance slightly but personally I wouldn't be a great fan of that solution... I like the challenge in the game.

[Aggh]

Sounds like a personal problem. Why don't you clear some space and ACTUALY prove me wrong.

Rendering :|

Please ready your excuses.

....... So the core mechanics of game play... Is wasting time, and people who I dunno, might be playing the game because they enjoy the game play, are scrubs? 0.o

If it's more efficient to speed run a level rather than actually play the game, that would suggest bad game design. If your are actively avoiding playing the game becuase "it's more efficient" to just speed run through a level, then the game design is flawed.

All dungeon crawlers have parts where it's more efficient to speed run some parts. You may as well say that the some of the best games of all time are terribly designed. Also, you're implying that speed running a mission can't be fun. I'd suggest that in the future that you refrain from forcing your preferences on people. Having to speed run some low level missions every now than for maybe an hour total isn't exactly a taxing thing to do. Also, if you don't want to speed run you can always just grind defense missions. Now you're going to tell me they should get rid of grinding in a dungeon crawler.

[CosyPigeon]

First off, you don't need to max a mod as soon as you get it. Shield mods for example make quite a difference already just at rank 1 and it's enough to do a lot of missions. You can't get OP instantly, that is GOOD game design. And you hardly need thousands of mods to max a mod. The number of mods of the same card that you need to get to the next rank is 2^(current rank). Consider a mod that goes up to rank 5:

rank 0=>1

2^0=1

rank 1=>2

2^1=2

rank 2=>3

2^2=4

rank 3=>4

2^3=8

rank 4=>5

2^4=16

TOTAL: 31 (aka thousands)

Shield mods are already common rarity, what they could do is increase their drop chance slightly but personally I wouldn't be a great fan of that solution... I like the challenge in the game.

Yes they are common rarity, but their their drop rate sadly is anything but common. Many people have been getting tonne of rare mods and barely any common mods.

as of the upgrade cost in cards, I read somewhere else that it required thousands, sadly I cannot find the thread, my bad for not cheking my sources on that point.

I know you don't need to max out a mod as soon as you get it. But that's not the point (as previously stated) getting the mod in the first place is purely luck based, and that is whats bad. It wouldn't be bad if there where other means of increasing your sheilds (like an upgrade tree for leveling, or passive upgrades to your warframe for leveling, or other means to obtain the mod, or the 'common' descriptor on the card being accurate). but there isn't.