Luck Is The Only Way To Progress In Update 7.

[CosyPigeon]

May I ask what HAS dropped for you, how long you'v eplayed since the update, and what Warframes you have at your disposal?

I have received, several rifle multi shot mods, several shotgun multi shot mods, several pistol damage mods, 2 fury mods, 4 true steel mods, 4 power duration mods, 1 power efficiency mod, numerous other shotgun, pistol, and rifle mods for reload speed, stun duration, elemental damage, crit chance, crit damage etc. I have found 1 health mod, I used most of my fusion cores to rank it up to rank 2, this gives loki 150 hp and 75 sheilds. My primary grind spot has been Tolstoj in Mercury, I have also been grinding some corpus areas in Venus ( I chose these areas because common enemies are supposedly more likely to drop common mods). Most of the mods I have been finding have been rare or uncommon weapon mods.

I currently have 4 war frames. 1 level 22 Ash. 1 level 21 Loki (whom I have been using to grind for mods, before the update he was level 7) 1 level 7 excalibur prime, and one level 7 Banshee.

[Silenterr]

Do people honestly believe that getting needed stats purely from drop rates is good design? This game sometimes is considered a type of dungeon crawler but the difference with this and other dungeon crawlers are your completely reliant on loot for character progression as opposed to getting stats which helps your character survive the higher zones. Yes rare items are great but atleast give us a sense of progression.

I have yet to get a single hp or sheild mod in the time I have been playing this game in update 7 but if it wasn't for the fact I main Nyx I would not survive the higher zones.

[kaizoku222]

I've played for about 7 hours since the update, mostly in groups and endless defense, I've gotten at least 2 pages of cards, half of which being abilities I don't have. I have 2 frames, a 30 loki and a 24 ash, and before the update I had about 4-5 pages of level 25-30 uncommon or rare mods. Aside from the 50% ability find rate, I've found mostly reload speed, enemy radar, AP damage, ammo capacity, and similar value mods, zero hp or shield, 2 shield recharge rate, 3 armor.

And yeah, so many enemies are hitscan in this game only hp or shield are viable survivability options, if you are targeted by a burst rifle at level 25-30 with no mods you're dead in a little over a second.

[neKroMancer]

I don't have this trouble but ,yes, the entire progression based on RNG isn't a good design. There will always be two ends of the drop, one with luck got everything, one without luck with get everything but the essential. Arguing about RNG is rather pointless since some of us probably has to sacrifice neighbor's dog/cat to appease the RNG god(s).

Can this be solved? Yes.

1. Easy way to do it is an option allowing player to buy card packs with credit. The system is already similar to ME3MP progression based on booster packs in the cash shop. It works pretty fine and surprisingly enough to fuel ME3MP for a year now.

2. Give us some choices for base stat upgrade for each level up. This should ease new player/new frame journey into higher level.

[Renathy]

Well since I don't agree with you, how about you try explaining instead of telling? Explain to me how a system where all of your stats, health and abilities are determined by items that randomly drop on the gound isn't luck based? I'm curious to see what explanation you would provide.

It's all about strategy, man.

I can do a mission with a friend, without depending on health or shields.

We just use our brains. Take cover. Shoot the primary sources of annoyance. Etc.

[CosyPigeon]

It's all about strategy, man.

I can do a mission with a friend, without depending on health or shields.

We just use our brains. Take cover. Shoot the primary sources of annoyance. Etc.

And how does your stratedgy net you a shield mod from a random number generator?

[Silenterr]

And how does your stratedgy net you a shield mod from a random number generator?

You strategically walk over and pick it up.

But on a serious note yeah I agree with you this needs to change.

[Cakes]

And how does your stratedgy net you a shield mod from a random number generator?

It mitigates the absolute need for shield/health boosts to solo lvl 15+ planets or for premades to operate on Pluto.

And yeah, so many enemies are hitscan in this game only hp or shield are viable survivability options, if you are targeted by a burst rifle at level 25-30 with no mods you're dead in a little over a second.

Stick with Corpus for now, and aside from jumping to avoid shockwave moas just keep sprinting/sliding perpendicular to them to avoid the beams of death. But yeah, lvl 30+ Grineer hurt if I'm caught in the open since there are no shield/health mods on my warframes.

[Renathy]

And how does your stratedgy net you a shield mod from a random number generator?

It doesn't net me a shield mod.

It allows me to play without the need of one.

[kaizoku222]

It doesn't net me a shield mod.

It allows me to play without the need of one.

Your solution to poor solo survivability is...... to not play solo at all?

This game is easy with even just one other person since there's no scaling, the only difficulty the game had was in soloing or tip top end game with a couple people, and now soloing isn't viable past 20 without shield/hp mods, that's not a good thing. Saying "just play with friends" doesn't fix soloing not being viable without a RNG drop.

[neKroMancer]

Right now, the most efficient way of playing without shield mod is to use cover to your advantage. Wallrun/sliding to surprise the enemy, deflect bullet with your weapon.

To be frank, it's more fun and skill-based than the original mindless Grineer stomping game.

[Linarian.]

So... to all the people that are complaining with no solutions.. what is your suggestion to fix it?

I don't "Hate" how it is, but I do think it would be a welcome addition if you could purchase "X" mod from the market for currency or Plat.

Thoughts?

[CosyPigeon]

Right now, the most efficient way of playing without shield mod is to use cover to your advantage. Wallrun/sliding to surprise the enemy, deflect bullet with your weapon.

To be frank, it's more fun and skill-based than the original mindless Grineer stomping game.

I'm not asking for the game to be made easier, I'm not saying the enemies should be made more mindless and stupid, I just wan't progression to not be entirely luck based, so that I can customise my warframe to a playstyle that suits me (and also so I can go and fight in some fo the harder areas) without having to grind for mods that frankly, may never drop. Why are so many people opposed to that? You wanna play without a sheild mod to make the game more challenging, great! I'm not gonna stop you. So why are you so opposed to the idea of a progression system that isn't entriely luck based? That doesn't alienate new players? That isn't a cynical cash grab designed to make those who are unfortunate spend money on mod packs instead of cool things like colour palletes and new weapons.

[Orphy]

I have received, several rifle multi shot mods, several shotgun multi shot mods, several pistol damage mods, 2 fury mods, 4 true steel mods, 4 power duration mods, 1 power efficiency mod, numerous other shotgun, pistol, and rifle mods for reload speed, stun duration, elemental damage, crit chance, crit damage etc. I have found 1 health mod, I used most of my fusion cores to rank it up to rank 2, this gives loki 150 hp and 75 sheilds. My primary grind spot has been Tolstoj in Mercury, I have also been grinding some corpus areas in Venus ( I chose these areas because common enemies are supposedly more likely to drop common mods). Most of the mods I have been finding have been rare or uncommon weapon mods.

I currently have 4 war frames. 1 level 22 Ash. 1 level 21 Loki (whom I have been using to grind for mods, before the update he was level 7) 1 level 7 excalibur prime, and one level 7 Banshee.

Mod wise, you don't seem any less fortunate than any of the people I've ran into on the new planets, as for your choice to farm on Loki, I have to question if this is causing most of your bitterness, lack of innate HP and shields leads to a staggering display of the problem at hand. Not to mention if you throw on his helmet too.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Orphy

[Ronyn]

And that's dreadfull game design. End of story.

For those of you have been lucky and having a good time with update 7, good for you, please don't fill this thread with your posts about how the update is fine because you got what you needed from the RNG. The rest of us didn't, we're still farming Mercury for Sheild and HP mods that never drop, and it's S#&$.

This is both true and false.

Old system gave you some automatic bonuses on the tree..and I do miss those.

however, the new system does allow a person to take a weak mod and upgrade it into a strong one.

befoire we just had to hope we would get a stronger one or stack a bunch and take up slots.

[Bonemiser]

Can you "progress" without Shield/Health/Armor mods? Yes.

Is it good game design? No.

It's not that complicated. Replacing the Skill Tree means you need to replace Skill Boost, Shield and Health nodes. They "replaced" Skill nodes (while making them prohibitively expensive), but also completely neglected to add stock Shield/HP cards as well. I wonder, how do you fix that...?

It's almost laughable how a handful of backers started spouting that Warframe is and should only be a Co-op game immediately after they completely broke the progression system. Destruction of solo viability is a mistake, not a plus. Avoid the mental gymnastics and provide proper feedback.

Edited March 22, 2013 by FenixStryk

[CosyPigeon]

Mod wise, you don't seem any less fortunate than any of the people I've ran into on the new planets, as for your choice to farm on Loki, I have to question if this is causing most of your bitterness, lack of innate HP and shields leads to a staggering display of the problem at hand. Not to mention if you throw on his helmet too.

Using loki because he is the most survivable due to his abilities. Invisibility plus decoy greatly increase your overall survivability. Lots of people have been saying "just use stratedgy" but it's not as if I wasn't doing that allready.

[CosyPigeon]

This is both true and false.

Old system gave you some automatic bonuses on the tree..and I do miss those.

however, the new system does allow a person to take a weak mod and upgrade it into a strong one.

befoire we just had to hope we would get a stronger one or stack a bunch and take up slots.

That's great, if you can get the weak mod, which many of us can't, you need the base mod before you can upgrade it, and wether you get the base mod or not is entirely dependant on luck. Which is bad.

[Orphy]

Destruction of solo viability is a mistake, not a plus.

This is true, from the player's side, but what about from the companies?

If everyone could solo the new places alone, that'd eliminate time looking for parties. If there is no need for parties, you can start up whenever and do a few runs, get the Warframe blueprints and voila, three days later, new Warframe. The only cost potential is the 20 platinum for the slot.

Compared to the 75-375 platinum warframes, that's quite a bit less profit. For the record, I got the Mag and Excalibur blueprints in the same night. Fun as it is, it's not the best business model.

[Ronyn]

That's great, if you can get the weak mod, which many of us can't, you need the base mod before you can upgrade it, and wether you get the base mod or not is entirely dependant on luck. Which is bad.

We need to look at the bigger issue of progression system as two seperate peices-Mods and leveling up.

I'd say that the new Mod system is better...as a mod system. Old mods were based on luck as well yet they had no way to be improved.

That does not replace an inherent growth in power that we should be getting just from leveling up though.

Destruction of solo viability is a mistake, not a plus.

This is true, from the player's side, but what about from the companies?

If everyone could solo the new places alone, that'd eliminate time looking for parties. If there is no need for parties, you can start up whenever and do a few runs, get the Warframe blueprints and voila, three days later, new Warframe. The only cost potential is the 20 platinum for the slot.

Compared to the 75-375 platinum warframes, that's quite a bit less profit. For the record, I got the Mag and Excalibur blueprints in the same night. Fun as it is, it's not the best business model.

This equation is flawed.

Right now you can solo just fine....beneath your level. Solo capability isnt gone.

The only point where you cant comfortably solo is just starting out.

I can tell you right now that the new player experiance shouldnt force co-op because a lot of people will just hop on to try a game out to see if its worth looking for groups and all that.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Ronyn

[CosyPigeon]

We need to look at the bigger issue of progression system as two seperate peices-Mods and leveling up.

I'd say that the new Mod system is better...as a mod system. Old mods were based on luck as well yet they had no way to be improved.

That does not replace an inherent growth in power that we should be getting just from leveling up though.

I like the new mods system as a mod system, it's great, even made a big &#! thread about how it's good as a mod system and bad as a levelling system. Problem is, right now you need mods for every single aspect of progression, and it's entirely luck based.

[Ronyn]

I like the new mods system as a mod system, it's great, even made a big &#! thread about how it's good as a mod system and bad as a levelling system. Problem is, right now you need mods for every single aspect of progression, and it's entirely luck based.

We agree for most part then.

Though i may have used different words...lol...but thats not important

[CosyPigeon]

This is true, from the player's side, but what about from the companies?

If everyone could solo the new places alone, that'd eliminate time looking for parties. If there is no need for parties, you can start up whenever and do a few runs, get the Warframe blueprints and voila, three days later, new Warframe. The only cost potential is the 20 platinum for the slot.

Compared to the 75-375 platinum warframes, that's quite a bit less profit. For the record, I got the Mag and Excalibur blueprints in the same night. Fun as it is, it's not the best business model.

Alienating new players and losing their interest rapidly because they cannot effectively play solo when their friends aren't or their net connection is crap or they live somewhere outside the US is not a good business model either.

[Orphy]

Alienating new players and losing their interest rapidly because they cannot effectively play solo when their friends aren't or their net connection is crap or they live somewhere outside the US is not a good business model either.

Welcome to where I stand.

[Vocation]

Play in groups. Or ghost into a defence mission that was in progress and sit around. People will carry you and you can pick up mods that way. At least I did untill I got a health mod and fusion it to rank 7.

I also agree that this system needs changing.

Also devs , you could put in a Cloth/Armor system like MMORPGs like WoW or Skyrim or something to complement the mod system. (Could be armor that absorbs dmg after shields then it affects your hp.)

Or put in a cover system like Ghost recon....