Latron Prime Balance Issues

[Davoodoo]

Im really loving new latron. But truth be told, its op. Even half modded it can oneshot anything up to wave 40 on t3 def, 

 

I propose to reduce base dmg to 60(6imp 48punc 6 slash) raise crit chance to 20%, decrease crit dmg to 2.0, decrease reload speed to 2.0.

This should tone it down a bit letting sniper rifles compete in dmg with it.

[Zylin]

You just wanna make people angry dont ya? lol

[Davoodoo]

You just wanna make people angry dont ya? lol

I want balanced gameplay, soma, latron and brakk needs nerfs as did acrid and even hek before. This topic is about latron, there are other for other weapons.

[AscendantWyvern]

I'd like to know what setup you have that can one shot wave 40s.

 

That said, I have to say that snipers need a buff, maybe a headshot multiplier or something.

[Oli121210]

You are THAT guy.

Please consider that many, MANY, WF players have asked for the Latron Prime to be buffed. NOTHING happened for seven months. Yes, that is correct SEVEN (7) months. It got buffed into usefulness YESTERDAY.

Yet less than 24 hours later, after the unliked, unwarranted, and unwanted NERFING of Frost Prime--you tempt FURTHER nerfing by writing such a post?

You ARE that guy.

[DrPandisimo]

I want balanced gameplay, soma, latron and brakk needs nerfs as did acrid and even hek before. This topic is about latron, there are other for other weapons.

 

Soma is only OP with the right mods, Latron suffers against large groups without the right mods, brakk already got nerfed. Oh, and the Hek got buffed again, why don't you whine about that too?

[Zylin]

I want balanced gameplay, soma, latron and brakk needs nerfs as did acrid and even hek before. This topic is about latron, there are other for other weapons.

or maybe enemies need buffing. I get what you are saying but it's annoying having a gun nerfed after putting 3-4 formas on it.

[Zylin]

You are THAT guy.

Please consider that many, MANY, WF players have asked for the Latron Prime to be buffed. NOTHING happened for seven months. Yes, that is correct SEVEN (7) months. It got buffed into usefulness YESTERDAY.

Yet less than 24 hours later, after the unliked, unwarranted, and unwanted NERFING of Frost Prime--you tempt FURTHER nerfing by writing such a post?

You ARE that guy.

damn.. gave him "That guy " title. pow

[IIJetfireII]

A nerf thread, Please DE ignore this.

[AscendantWyvern]

You are THAT guy.

Please consider that many, MANY, WF players have asked for the Latron Prime to be buffed. NOTHING happened for seven months. Yes, that is correct SEVEN (7) months. It got buffed into usefulness YESTERDAY.

Yet less than 24 hours later, after the unliked, unwarranted, and unwanted NERFING of Frost Prime--you tempt FURTHER nerfing by writing such a post?

You ARE that guy.

There's nothing wrong with balancing. Weapons and warframes need feedback to be useful without breaking the challenge of the game. 

 

DE tends to kneejerk on the first adjustment, we all know this. Frost will get his sweet spot and Latron will have its place. 

 

That said, I would prefer the semi-automatic weapons to be the heavy hitters. 60 total damage is WAY too much to keep LatPrime useful. I could compromise with 75 total, but otherwise is just seems like we will be going in circles with the weapon.

[Oli121210]

damn.. gave him "That guy " title. pow

Given the context of this thread, his post, it seems perfectly fitting. I cannot see many of the aforementioned player base who have longed to use the Latron on higher levels but simply could not due to its DMG limitations feeling too pleased to see what the OP is requesting...can you?

[Davoodoo]

I'd like to know what setup you have that can one shot wave 40s.

 

That said, I have to say that snipers need a buff, maybe a headshot multiplier or something.

serration, infected clip, stormbringer, heavy caliber, split chamber, hammer shot, vital sense, point strike

70k headshots with 90% chance to get extra shot

 

The biggest problem is 2.5crit multiplier and amazing rof(compared to sniper rifles) while still having nearly pinpoint accuracy.

 

or maybe enemies need buffing. I get what you are saying but it's annoying having a gun nerfed after putting 3-4 formas on it.

I dont really think that making enemies into bigger bullet sponges is good idea.

Ive put 8 forma on my latron and i still think that it is too good for what it does. Yet 60 base dmg with faster reload speed and higher crit chance seems like fair tradeoff.

 

You are THAT guy.

Please consider that many, MANY, WF players have asked for the Latron Prime to be buffed. NOTHING happened for seven months. Yes, that is correct SEVEN (7) months. It got buffed into usefulness YESTERDAY.

Yet less than 24 hours later, after the unliked, unwarranted, and unwanted NERFING of Frost Prime--you tempt FURTHER nerfing by writing such a post?

You ARE that guy.

Never thought that latron prime needed buff, was doing just fine with it pre buff, if you look at what i proposed it will still be a buff compared to pre buff

Frost has nothing to do with it, tried it already and i have to say that i like changes, snow globe isnt i win button anymore which is great and other skills got their buffs to make them more worthwhile which is even better. If you want to complain about it then pls go to warframe feedback and post your thoughts there.

 

 

 

 

 

I really think that some ppl stop reading after they see nerf and then complain for the sake of it. 

[34Brewster]

Latron Prime, unlike most sniper rifles, requires quite a bit of effort to put together - and as such should be worth it. So no, don't nerf it.

[shut]

You are THAT guy.

Please consider that many, MANY, WF players have asked for the Latron Prime to be buffed. NOTHING happened for seven months. Yes, that is correct SEVEN (7) months. It got buffed into usefulness YESTERDAY.

Yet less than 24 hours later, after the unliked, unwarranted, and unwanted NERFING of Frost Prime--you tempt FURTHER nerfing by writing such a post?

You ARE that guy.

A nerf thread, Please DE ignore this.

Posts like yours are what is wrong with the feedback forums.

You only see "nerf bad, buff good" without ever considering the possibility of the middle ground that us "nerfers" are aiming for. You see us as fun-suckers, when we are simply trying to promote much-needed balance.

OT:

The weapon had a niche that it failed at dismally. After the buff, it nails that niche perfectly, but it has encroached onto the DPS niche as well. The DPS, considering that it surpasses even the ridiculously-powerful Soma, is simply unnecessary.

To make the weapon fit its niche nicely without doing stupid amounts of unnecessary DPS, I suggest that the base fire rate be decreased from 4.2 to 3.0. Its DPS potential from macros or scroll-wheeling becomes much more limited while its intended tap-firing pick-off-targets gameplay remains unaffected.

 

EDIT: Scratch everything I said.

 

See GottFaust's post on Page 3. Weapons being stronger than Soma is actually nothing new; there have been weapons much stronger than it that nobody's ever complained about because nobody's ever bothered to do the DPS calculations since November.

 

If those weapons have never negatively impacted our gameplay for all these months, despite how much stronger they are than Soma, then neither will the Latron Prime. This is all in our head; we're all just overreacting over a nonissue.

Edited February 10, 2014 by SortaRandom

[AscendantWyvern]

serration, infected clip, stormbringer, heavy caliber, split chamber, hammer shot, vital sense, point strike

70k headshots with 90% chance to get extra shot

 

I'm going to do this for the sake of being a smart &#!, but "That's not half-modded"

 

 

That aside, I have to agree with the crit chance. Though, I think lowering the crit chance and damage instead of the damage itself would help control the crazy numbers that pop up.

[Oli121210]

Posts like yours are what is wrong with the feedback forums. You only see "nerf bad, buff good" without ever considering the possibility of the middle ground that us "nerfers" are aiming for.

The weapon had a niche that it failed at dismally. After the buff, it nails that niche perfectly, but it has encroached onto the DPS niche as well. The DPS, considering that it surpasses even the ridiculously-powerful Soma, is simply unnecessary.

To make the weapon fit its niche nicely without doing stupid amounts of unnecessary DPS, I suggest that the base fire rate be decreased from 4.2 to 3.0. Its DPS potential from macros or scroll-wheeling becomes much more limited while its intended tap-firing pick-off-targets gameplay remains unaffected.

What makes you think you have the right to assume (wrongly-btw) I haven't considered the supposed, difficult to enact, elusive to say the least ' middle ground'?

[shut]

What makes you think you have the right to assume (wrongly-btw) I haven't considered the supposed, difficult to enact, elusive to say the least ' middle ground'?

Then make a point about it. Convince us that we're wrong.

What justifies the Latron Prime, the tap-firing pseudo-sniper, having greater DPS than the Soma, the raw-DPS weapon? Do you see this position as the "middle ground"?

Edited February 7, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Satsuki]

Admittedly, while I like the Latron Prime and I definitely support it being buffed to an extent relative to how it performed prior to U12... Its current state feels a tad excessive.

Sets an interesting precedent, too, if it remains, considering how much of an upgrade it is over the non-Prime Latron counterpart. If so, then for consistency's sake the other Prime weapons should follow in suite then, no?

[HolidayPi3]

Then make a point about it. Convince us that we're wrong.

What justifies the Latron Prime, the tap-firing pseudo-sniper, having greater DPS than the Soma, the raw-DPS weapon?

It has greater potential DPS, but much less ease of use. 

The Latron has less bullets in the mag, and punishes missed shots a LOT due to how much damage it loses from missing. Each shot made with the Latron is precious, and it makes missing really really depressing. Not to mention that it has greater recoil than the Soma, making target re-acquisition more difficult in the case that you do miss your first shot.

[IIJetfireII]

It has greater potential DPS, but much less ease of use. 

The Latron has less bullets in the mag, and punishes missed shots a LOT due to how much damage it loses from missing. Each shot made with the Latron is precious, and it makes missing really really depressing. Not to mention that it has greater recoil than the Soma, making target re-acquisition more difficult in the case that you do miss your first shot.

Good statement sir, that's one way to put of latron prime being semi-auto rifle needing a good dps as the others.

 

if it does better than sniper rifle, i don't mind seeing the buff on sniper rifles too, since bows got their buffs pretty much and sniper rifle's are supposed to be more of one-shotter to any strong enemies no matter how hard they are, well in general means, then it will be balanced in all rifle's as i believe. 

Edited February 7, 2014 by IIRodimusprimeII

[shut]

It has greater potential DPS, but much less ease of use. 

The Latron has less bullets in the mag, and punishes missed shots a LOT due to how much damage it loses from missing. Each shot made with the Latron is precious, and it makes missing really really depressing. Not to mention that it has greater recoil than the Soma, making target re-acquisition more difficult in the case that you do miss your first shot.

That's true, but the issue is that simply getting closer to the target and flicking your scroll wheel around is still going to net you more DPS than Soma. Soma's DPS is already pushing it; no non-Supra rifle should be outdamaging it, even DPS-designed ones. If we just keep making things more powerful than Soma, then it's just power creep all over again.

I don't think that the Latron should have such DPS capabilities, even if it is slightly harder to control. Its niche is elsewhere.

[HolidayPi3]

That's true, but the issue is that simply getting closer to the target and flicking your scroll wheel around is still going to net you more DPS than Soma. Soma's DPS is already pushing it; no non-Supra rifle should be outdamaging it, even DPS-designed ones. If we just keep making things more powerful than Soma, then it's just power creep all over again.

I don't think that the Latron should have such DPS capabilities, even if it is slightly harder to control. Its niche is elsewhere.

I see your point. I think the issue at hand here is the ROF it has then. The Latron should continue to be the tap-fire monster it is now, but nothing more.

The ROF it has now artificially inflates its DPS number, to the point where the recoil would make the gun unwieldy if it fired at that rate. People who tap fire usually wouldn't fire that quickly unless they were trying to desperately spray... which is ill-advised with the niche the weapon should fulfill.

 

[Davoodoo]

I see your point. I think the issue at hand here is the ROF it has then. The Latron should continue to be the tap-fire monster it is now, but nothing more.

The ROF it has now artificially inflates its DPS number, to the point where the recoil would make the gun unwieldy if it fired at that rate. People who tap fire usually wouldn't fire that quickly unless they were trying to desperately spray... which is ill-advised with the niche the weapon should fulfill.

 

The problem is that if we push rof down too much it wont fill its niche either cause it will be just inferior sniper rifle.

4.2 rof isnt much to begin with.

Vandaltron is 1.5 atm with higher dmg than latron.

As semi auto rifle it should have above average dps but i think it should come from fast precise shots not pure stopping power.

[HolidayPi3]

The problem is that if we push rof down too much it wont fill its niche either cause it will be just inferior sniper rifle.

4.2 rof isnt much to begin with.

Vandaltron is 1.5 atm with higher dmg than latron.

As semi auto rifle it should have above average dps but i think it should come from fast precise shots not pure stopping power.

I honestly wouldn't propose to decrease its ROF greatly. It would just feel sluggish and unfun to use. I myself have a "S#&$s and giggles" build on the Latron that uses Heavy Calibur and Shred to make it feel like an extremely large pistol, and it's great fun.

However the problem that people seem to have with the Latron is its DPS-- a measure of damage in the case that you mag drop straight onto an unmoving target with 100% accuracy... which is an instance that rarely ever happens.

Reaching this weapon's maximum potential DPS is a bit more difficult than others, due to its recoil and semi-automatic nature. All of your clicks must be perfectly timed and accurate, and you must click as fast as its ROF caps at. Whereas a fully auto weapon doesn't have to worry about timing, and can just focus on keeping the crosshairs on the target while holding the trigger down.

And this is why I'm okay with a very slight decrease in ROF. Unless you're trying to bring a group down (ill advised unless you're using shred), you rarely have to fire this thing at its max ROF. It'll bring down its crazy DPS number to appease the masses, but it won't affect the weapon too much.

DPS is kind of a shaky thing to be comparing weapons by, as it doesn't take into account things such as ease of use, or excessive ROF artificially increasing numbers. 

Having used the Latron since forever ago, I'm glad that it finally feels (minus the sound FX) like the gun it's supposed to be. But I also don't want my baby to be a topic of controversy for months to come.

Edited February 7, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Vunie]

if the latron is op then what is the soma? the soma is pretty much a latron with 90 bullets in the clip auto fire and higher crit chance the latron is not op is pretty much a semi auto sniper so it should make alot of damage