The Lethal Torrent Debate

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

um... no

-1 OP , -9999 thread

sidearms have different roles/ammo econ/etc than primaries, and well a lot of this is still a work in progress, it was intentional that 2ndary mods be more powerful than primary mods, otherwise the 2ndaries would be useless in comparison and you'd be severely gimped during data carry missions

anyways, they should NOT be equal, they should be different

regardless, base dmg increase mods like serration and hornet strike should all be removed from the game anyways and let weapons gain incremental dmg boosts as they rank from 1-30, thus allowing for more diverse builds

and IMHO multishot should be removed from the game, unless changed into some kind of corrupted mod with a downside

Try to remain objective when commenting. We want a debate, not an argument.

 

Ranks and damage being correlated is a very interesting idea. I think the overall scope of it would need to be tweaked but all-in-all it would work.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Try to remain objective when commenting. We want a debate, not an argument.

 

Ranks and damage being correlated is a very interesting idea. I think the overall scope of it would need to be tweaked but all-in-all it would work.

 

Please don't forget that upleveling Serration and Hornet Strike need many ressources and this acts as a progression bar. So the more you make progress, the more likely you get to max out Serration, Hornet Strike, Redirection, Vitality. So the more progress you make the more impact it has on your existing stuff.

 

This damage/rank is just a lazy shortcut because leveling up a weapon ist not that big of a deal.

Edited February 9, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[MoyuTheTrinity]

With enough forma anything becomes decent. I think that nerfing would just cause people to get angry like usual. I'd rather see Split Chamber buffed to accommodate 10 ranks.

decent is not perfect like the brakk even with its "nerf" that forces you to use it like a shotgun instead of a rifle its range is still usable in 70% of the game and it has the best handling in the game even compaired to rifles

and if other pistols where brought up to its level then nerf the mods to match rifle then they might be more on level with the rest of the game

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

Please don't forget that upleveling Serration and Hornet Strike need many ressources and this acts as a progression bar. So the more you make progress, the more likely you get to max out Serration, Hornet Strike, Redirection, Vitality. So the more progress you make the more impact it has on your existing stuff.

 

This damage/rank is just a lazy shortcut because leveling up a weapon ist not that big of a deal.

VERY good point. What would be your ideal "fix" then?

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

decent is not perfect like the brakk even with its "nerf" that forces you to use it like a shotgun instead of a rifle its range is still usable in 70% of the game and it has the best handling in the game even compaired to rifles

and if other pistols where brought up to its level then nerf the mods to match rifle then they might be more on level with the rest of the game

I think everyone can admit that the Brakk still needs a nerf :P

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I think everyone can admit that the Brakk still needs a nerf :P

eccept 80% of the people who own the brakk and a forum account

I personaly do not want an op weapon I want a decent magnum revovler that isnt for spraying bullets everywhere that looks nice and simple the closest to that is the Lex its pretty close so I am happy with it but the game is being balanced around the brakk aslong as brakk users give feed back

 

My friend owns a brakk  but uses the bronco prime with his sniper instead because the brakk is just way to strong compaired to everything else he owns and it just leaves a bad taste in his mouth because of how it trivializes the game for him

[SIDESTRE4M]

VERY good point. What would be your ideal "fix" then?

 

Hm, honestly I'm not so sure about a good fix. In my opinion apart from damage alone, multishot could enable procs better because two bullets have better chance than one but that's it. Apart from that it's another damage mod most of the time. It could as well read as "90% chance to deal double damage and double proc chance", which sounds very weird.

 

If I'm not missing something, we could as well remove mulitshot mods for pistol/rifle and buff Serration and Hornetstrike instead, so they make up for the loss to a certain degree. On the bright side you have one more mod slot to put something other in there. This would rededuce the obligatory three mods to just two, leaving Lethal torrent still as an issue though. Maybe change the multishot part of lethal torrent to status chance? Wouldn't please anyone but I don't expect these changes would so in the first place.

 

Where I think multi-shot makes sense is in shotgun-style weapons for more pellets. So they could remain there and maybe exclusive as pistol variants for Detron/Brakk/Bronco.

 

In the end we would have less obligatory mods for most weapons but keeping roughly the same damage, if not more because one slot gets free in the process to be filled with an elemental mod or something other.

 

Don't take it too seriously, it's just an idea, not my carved in stone opinion.

Edited February 9, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

eccept 80% of the people who own the brakk and a forum account

I personaly do not want an op weapon I want a decent magnum revovler that isnt for spraying bullets everywhere that looks nice and simple the closest to that is the Lex its pretty close so I am happy with it but the game is being balanced around the brakk aslong as brakk users give feed back

 

My friend owns a brakk  but uses the bronco prime with his sniper instead because the brakk is just way to strong compaired to everything else he owns and it just leaves a bad taste in his mouth because of how it trivializes the game for him

I'm glad I don't own it then. I like a challenge.

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

Hm, honestly I'm not so sure about a good fix. In my opinion apart from damage alone, multishot could enable procs better because two bullets have better chance than one but that's it. Apart from that it's another damage mod most of the time. It could as well read as "90% chance to deal double damage and double proc chance", which sounds very weird.

 

If I'm not missing something, we could as well remove mulitshot mods for pistol/rifle and buff Serration and Hornetstrike instead, so they make up for the loss to a certain degree. On the bright side you have one more mod slot to put something other in there. This would rededuce the obligatory three mods to just two, leaving Lethal torrent still as an issue though. Maybe change the multishot part of lethal torrent to status chance? Wouldn't please anyone but I don't expect these changes would so in the first place.

 

Where I think multi-shot makes sense is in shotgun-style weapons for more pellets. So they could remain there and maybe exclusive as pistol variants for Detron/Brakk/Bronco.

 

In the end we would have less obligatory mods for most weapons but keeping roughly the same damage, if not more because one slot gets free in the process to be filled with an elemental mod or something other.

 

Don't take it too seriously, it's just an idea, not my carved in stone opinion.

I like the first part of your idea, but I think that keeping a special variant for the shotgun-pistols would just make them even more overpowered than they already are. I'll add the first part to the post, I really like it.

[SIDESTRE4M]

I like the first part of your idea, but I think that keeping a special variant for the shotgun-pistols would just make them even more overpowered than they already are. I'll add the first part to the post, I really like it.

 

Thanks for liking my idea. However, if Brakk/Detron(/Broncos?) get nerfed a bit in the process (I'm not a fan of nerfs though...), the muliti-pellet thing would still fit nicely. They don't have to be like 280%... maybe 100% is just enough. Maybe then they don't even have to be touched at all.

 

I think, multishot should remain for the shotguns though. More pellets seems nice.

 

I wonder why no one came up with the idea for multistrike-mods for melee weapons yet lol.

Edited February 9, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[ChaoticVice777]

You don't FIX something by putting something else together with it. (Example, you don't put two weak batteries together to make a strong battery, you just use one strong battery, it's less work, makes more sense, and fits in to what it needs to easily)

 

Pistols ALSO have a corrupted mod, Magnum Force. 

 

Rifle's multishot is underpowered and Shotgun's % damage is underpowered.

 

Well, that's assuming that you're fixing something in the first place. Also, your analogy needs some work; you need to consider the quantity versus quality of the batteries. Let's face it, even with min-maxing, most people are willing to spend 3 slots to equip 3 Rank 5 mods compared to 2 slots to equip Rank 10 mods.

 

That's true, but once again, there's a reason why Heavy Caliber and Magnum Force aren't usually used for anything besides the continuous weaponry. The accuracy reduction hurts so much. Furthermore, Magnum Force "only" adds on +66% more damage and is still a Rank 10 rare mod.

 

So overall, +330% damage, -55% accuracy for rifles (Serration and Heavy Caliber) and +286% damage, -33% accuracy for pistols (Hornet Strike and Magnum Force), and +90% multishot for rifles (Split Chamber) and +180% multishot for pistols (Barrel Diffusion + Lethal Torrent). As for shotguns, +240% damage, +60% fire damage, +60% spread (Point Blank, Blaze, and Vicious Spread) and +120% multishot  (****'s Chamber).

 

Rfiles are the worst off, but shotguns are not that terrible in comparison to the pistols. And then you also have to compensate with existing ammo sizes to boot...

Edited February 9, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

I wonder why no one came up with the idea for multistrike-mods for melee weapons yet lol.

"+1 Targets hit" Mod

 

YES

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

Well, that's assuming that you're fixing something in the first place. Also, your analogy needs some work; you need to consider the quantity versus quality of the batteries. Let's face it, even with min-maxing, most people are willing to spend 3 slots to equip 3 Rank 5 mods compared to 2 slots to equip Rank 10 mods.

 

That's true, but once again, there's a reason why Heavy Caliber and Magnum Force aren't usually used for anything besides the continuous weaponry. The accuracy reduction hurts so much. Furthermore, Magnum Force "only" adds on +66% more damage and is still a Rank 10 rare mod.

 

So overall, +330% damage, -55% accuracy for rifles (Serration and Heavy Caliber) and +286% damage, -33% accuracy for pistols (Hornet Strike and Magnum Force), and +90% multishot for rifles (Split Chamber) and +180% multishot for pistols (Barrel Diffusion + Lethal Torrent). As for shotguns, +240% damage, +60% fire damage, +60% spread (Point Blank, Blaze, and Vicious Spread) and +120% multishot  (****'s Chamber).

 

Rfiles are the worst off, but shotguns are not that terrible in comparison to the pistols. And then you also have to compensate with existing ammo sizes to boot...

Great point. In a way, Shotguns are relatively balanced compared to pistols.

[Skepsis]

The thing I think people are missing with this discussion, which is really good by the way, hope it stays on track.

 

It's not just mods, It's the inconsistency between the mods in general. Rifles get the least benefit from mods, while Pistols get the best improvements from them. Not to mention the fact that Melee mods/weapons are obsolete right now.

 

The Big issues that come into play here with the balance of mods/band aid mods comes to Balance of Primary vs. Rifles. Where DE tries to make every weapon viable unfortunately in the long run most weapons don't scale well with mods.

 

Just my opinion though, Lots of run away balance issues at the moment. lol.

[--Q--JoeTheBanshee]

The thing I think people are missing with this discussion, which is really good by the way, hope it stays on track.

 

It's not just mods, It's the inconsistency between the mods in general. Rifles get the least benefit from mods, while Pistols get the best improvements from them. Not to mention the fact that Melee mods/weapons are obsolete right now.

 

The Big issues that come into play here with the balance of mods/band aid mods comes to Balance of Primary vs. Rifles. Where DE tries to make every weapon viable unfortunately in the long run most weapons don't scale well with mods.

 

Just my opinion though, Lots of run away balance issues at the moment. lol.

In the long run I think that's all it really is: balancing issues.

[Raijinmeister]

Not just Lethal Torrent is an issue.

 

Barrel Diffusion vs Split Chamber favors Pistols over Rifles.

Hornet Strike vs Serration favors PIstols over Rifles.

 

Adding more bandaid mods aren't going to fix this issue. The issue would be balance the current mods.

Nothing will change about this while rifles and snipers share the majority of mods.

They don't wanna ultra powerfull snipers here for some reason,i don't mind either.Snipers here are just fancy toys with all the crowd of enemies we need to kill every time.