Frosty Nerf Questions

[EnderDragon1324]

I have been out of warframe for about 1 month and now I am hearing about these Frost nerfs. What exactly happened?

Cause I like my Trench coat, CD player head warframe :(

[Vahlak]

Or you can fix the mechanics behind Snow Globe? Every build or tactic that Frost uses is basically a band-aid solution for the issues with Snow Globe. Why leave the duration intact if the developers are going a health mechanic to reduce the feel of permanence?

According to everyone here the globe only lasts for 3 seconds anyways. What does the duration matter, at that point?

 

 You can't argue that the duration is too short or needs to be removed UNLESS it lasts that long.

[ChaoticVice777]

According to everyone here the globe only lasts for 3 seconds anyways. What does the duration matter, at that point?

 

 You can't argue that the duration is too short or needs to be removed UNLESS it lasts that long.

 

You can:

 

So? You're basically forced to spam Snow Globe to keep the protection intact since even Level 30+ enemies tear through the 3500 HP per Snow Globe far too easily.

 

As for boosting power strength, how many people are able to use a maxed Blind Rage? Furthermore, your power efficiency then gets wrecked, which means you have to at least put Fleeting Expertise, which then wrecks your duration. So finally, you end up with +129% power strength, +35% power efficiency (if you add Streamline), and -60% power duration. Now your Snow Globe only lasts 12 seconds, so even if you geared up to handle mobs at that level, you're still forced to spam.

 

I'm well aware that tweaking will occur; refer to the suggestions that I prefer the most at the moment. Are you insinuating that I'm not giving constructive suggestions?

 

At the moment, for better or worse, Frost can now diverge successfully (?) into two different builds: Power Strength or Power Range. Strength improves Frost's defensive and offensive capabilities, while Range improves Frost's caster abilities and overall utility.

 

If you still don't agree, then think about this: if the duration doesn't matter, then why has it been left intact?

[Vahlak]

You can:

 

 

If you still don't agree, then think about this: if the duration doesn't matter, then why has it been left intact?

If they tear through your globe so easily, to the point it dies in 3 seconds, then it does not matter if your globe lasts for 5 seconds, 12 seconds, or forever. It is simply dead at 3 seconds, and duration is both pointless and a non issue. 

 

According to your math, if the globe lasts 12 seconds, then it has done it's job, and the health change is a non-issue.

 

 In fact, the only time the duration becomes an issue, is if the globe consistently lasts it's full duration against the higher level enemies,  60-70+ at least.  So then the health change did nothing, and the problem is the duration.  But according to literally every single post complaining about this change, the health is the problem. Pick one...

[ChaoticVice777]

If they tear through your globe so easily, to the point it dies in 3 seconds, then it does not matter if your globe lasts for 5 seconds, 12 seconds, or forever. It is simply dead at 3 seconds, and duration is both pointless and a non issue. 

 

According to your math, if the globe lasts 12 seconds, then it has done it's job, and the health change is a non-issue.

 

 In fact, the only time the duration becomes an issue, is if the globe consistently lasts it's full duration against the higher level enemies,  60-70+ at least.  So then the health change did nothing, and the problem is the duration.  But according to literally every single post complaining about this change, the health is the problem. Pick one...

 

I reiterate once more; if you say duration is both pointless and a non-issue, why does it exist? This situation is similar to the existing duration of Molecular Prime. It's adding an extra, pointless mechanic. Why would you add something that doesn't have a purpose?

 

Although due to the shorter duration, now you have to ask why Snow Globe has to dissipate in two different ways, through taking too much damage or lasting too long. I reserve doubt that this nerfed Snow Globe is so overpowered that two methods of destruction were needed to balance it out.

 

I still don't think you're quite getting it. It looks like you got everything reversed:

 

Lower content - Enemies are easier to kill, and the protection simply isn't needed or is at least left intact because they don't do enough damage. Furthermore, Snow Globe always dissipates every 12 seconds. Initiate slow Snow Globe spam.

 

Higher-level content - Enemies harder to kill, and they deal more damage, making protection a high priority. Too bad Snow Globe can't do that consistently because its health doesn't scale, which means Snow Globe has the potential to dissipate before even 12 seconds pass. Initiate constant Snow Globe spam.

 

In other words, Snow Globe just lost a majority of its utility, and this has created a situation akin to Rhino's Iron Skin and its revamps, except more widespread.

Edited February 10, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[Seasonsofclarity]

Camping inside the Snow Globe is nowhere near as mandatory as it is now.

 

In any case, how is this issue a dead horse when it just appeared with Update 12? This is literally a new topic to complain about.

You're kidding, right?  Whiners have turned this into a dead horse within the first DAY.

[ChaoticVice777]

You're kidding, right? Whiners have turned this into a dead horse within the first DAY.

When the stamina system was changed, people complained about the issue so much that DE promptly fixed it, which also made further complaints before the fix was implemented liike beating on a dead horse. Your point?

Edited February 10, 2014 by ChaoticVice777

[Vahlak]

I reiterate once more; if you say duration is both pointless and a non-issue, why does it exist? This situation is similar to the existing duration of Molecular Prime. It's adding an extra, pointless mechanic. Why would you add something that doesn't have a purpose?

 

Although due to the shorter duration, now you have to ask why Snow Globe has to dissipate in two different ways, through taking too much damage or lasting too long. I reserve doubt that this nerfed Snow Globe is so overpowered that two methods of destruction were needed to balance it out.

 

I still don't think you're quite getting it. It looks like you got everything reversed:

 

Lower content - Enemies are easier to kill, and the protection simply isn't needed or is at least left intact because they don't do enough damage. Furthermore, Snow Globe always dissipates every 12 seconds. Initiate slow Snow Globe spam.

 

Higher-level content - Enemies harder to kill, and they deal more damage, making protection a high priority. Too bad Snow Globe can't do that consistently because its health doesn't scale, which means Snow Globe has the potential to dissipate before even 12 seconds pass. Initiate constant Snow Globe spam.

 

In other words, Snow Globe just lost a majority of its utility, and this has created a situation akin to Rhino's Iron Skin and its revamps, except more widespread.

Duration is both meaningless and a non issue.  Why bother removing it if it is not an issue?  It is extra effort that has no reward.

 

I could argue that having no duration on globe, could give low end machines problems. Each and every globe takes resources to render in the game world, and if the globe never disappears, and more are summoned, it could actually severely hinder a player.

 

Lower content is just that, lower content, unless you are a new player it is incredibly easy to do.

 

Higher level content, where most of us spend our time, should be difficult.  Not impossible, mind you. But not  as easy as low level content, which is what snow globe made it. 

 

 That leaves only one issue, the health.  If it lasts for its full duration, it is not a problem.  I will concede that there are times where the globe will die, it simply happens.  The solution, available to players right now, is to kill enemies faster.

 

 It is clear that you and I will not agree on this, we are looking at it from different angles, and that's fine.  I'm not asking you to change your mind, just to understand all of the points of view.

[Vahlak]

When the stamina system was changed, people complained about the issue so much that DE promptly fixed it, which also made further complaints before the fix was implemented liike beating on a dead horse. Your point?

His point is he is tired of seeing all the whining over it.  Simple solution though, is to simply not read anything more on it...

[ChaoticVice777]

Duration is both meaningless and a non issue.  Why bother removing it if it is not an issue?  It is extra effort that has no reward.

 

I could argue that having no duration on globe, could give low end machines problems. Each and every globe takes resources to render in the game world, and if the globe never disappears, and more are summoned, it could actually severely hinder a player.

 

Lower content is just that, lower content, unless you are a new player it is incredibly easy to do.

 

Higher level content, where most of us spend our time, should be difficult.  Not impossible, mind you. But not  as easy as low level content, which is what snow globe made it. 

 

 That leaves only one issue, the health.  If it lasts for its full duration, it is not a problem.  I will concede that there are times where the globe will die, it simply happens.  The solution, available to players right now, is to kill enemies faster.

 

 It is clear that you and I will not agree on this, we are looking at it from different angles, and that's fine.  I'm not asking you to change your mind, just to understand all of the points of view.

 

It's also extra effort with no reward by keeping duration intact.

 

The rendering each Snow Globe argument has existed for a long time and still exists (more impractically). 

 

I agree that high content should not be trivialized, but due to the nerf, Snow Globe currently doesn't fit within a team or a role.

 

There is no point having a duration if there's a health mechanic. I can imagine how much Rhino players would complain if Iron Skin was given a 15 second duration mechanic. Oh wait, if it lasts the entire duration (HP-wise or time-wise), it won't matter, right? The solution is not to kill enemies faster, but make the ability scale better.

 

I'd rather compromise than agree to disagree...

[fatpig84]

It's also extra effort with no reward by keeping duration intact.

 

The rendering each Snow Globe argument has existed for a long time and still exists (more impractically). 

 

I agree that high content should not be trivialized, but due to the nerf, Snow Globe currently doesn't fit within a team or a role.

 

There is no point having a duration if there's a health mechanic. I can imagine how much Rhino players would complain if Iron Skin was given a 15 second duration mechanic. Oh wait, if it lasts the entire duration (HP-wise or time-wise), it won't matter, right? The solution is not to kill enemies faster, but make the ability scale better.

 

I'd rather compromise than agree to disagree...

 

Eh Ironskin used to last like 15 seconds with only 800 damage negated iirc.

[ChaoticVice777]

Eh Ironskin used to last like 15 seconds with only 800 damage negated iirc.

 

I never recalled that Iron Skin ever had a duration ever since the HP mechanic was first implemented...

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.