Get Rid Of Damage/multishot

[Sphyrik]

Make the weapon stronger as it levels up.

 

These mods really destroy mod variability. 

 

Examples:

 

Rifles: Serration, Splitchamber, 2 slots gone

Pistols: Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, 3 slots gone

 

And after these slots are taken, guess what's next? Elementals or Crit (if viable)

 

No one runs around with Magazine Warp (Although it is quite useful) cause you are directly sacrificing damage for utility.

 

This problem is also present in warframes:

 

Mods that increase Duration/Power/Range/Cost are always priortized over stuff like Maglev/Acrobat.

 

Anyway that's all I wanted to say.

 

I'm not saying remove those warframe mods, that would be bad lol, mod system needs a bit of a rework overall

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sphyrik

[BrotherIcarus]

I would not mind them removing the flat damage up mods (Serration for example) but keep the likes of mulitshot in those the the creative ways of increasing damage plus they do not only increase damage.

[semigod22]

umm no.

 

i suggest people stop crying for nerfs or removing mods.. 

 

also enemys still do alot of shooting dmg. so if DE is nerfing more and more they should first nerf enemy dmg

[vasRayya]

Magazine warp is extremely useful, I use it all the time. 

[SpilockT_T]

Serration Retirement!?

-No, we're not retiring Serration, but we do want to increase damage diversity

-Circumstantial Damage buffs? Ex. Damage+ on headshots, Damage+ on unaware enemies, etc.

 

Source: Livestream 22

[Skynin]

Don't touch Multishot, this is good element of mod system.

[Duk282]

DE -I love your mod system, but I think at some point this needs to be addressed. 

 

Who isn't going to put Flow and Streamline on a warframe?

 

I'm not saying take the function out -it just doesn't belong in the mod card system. Mod cards should be about creative choice -not obvious choice. 

[(PSN)KINGMexicant]

Who is running all the acrobatic mods? I wanna see THAT GUY. Magleving through a whole hallway, then handspring from knockdwons and wall running forever

[EclecticDragon]

Don't touch Multishot, this is good element of mod system.

 

Considering that Multishot is nearly a requirement for every weapon barring maybe the penta. So no, it's not "good for the mod system".

 

Why is that?

 

Well you see before damage 2.0 there could have been a case for mulishot being at-least some what balanced as armor was a flat minus X damage. meaning putting all of your damage into one shot was a little more viable. But now that it's % based resistance system there litterly isn't really a reason not to take multishot, since you basically double your damage, crit chance and status chance all while mitigating poor accuracy that plague some weapons.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

As I've said countless times before, removing damage mods are the only way for anything to ever be able to be balanced.

That said, increasing weapon damage with level causes issues with accruing mastery.

[Axterix13]

Removing damage mods accomplishes nothing.  People will simply move on to the next most effective thing.

 

The only way to get diversity is to have everything provide about an equal benefit.  That won't happen when some mods, like Magazine Warp, are garbage, costing too many mod points for what it does.  Unfortunately, buffing it runs into an issue with the number of mod slots versus how many mod points we can fit into an item.  Only 8 slots, up to 120 points worth of stuff.  Since a 15 point item should be better than a 6 point one, ultimately, people will gravitate to those higher cost ones.

 

That said, Magazine Warp and the like would see some use if they were buffed though.  If Magazine Warp were to cost 1 or 2 points at rank 0 and add 20% per rank, with a max of 4 ranks, for example.  A shotgun equivalent of that most definitely would.  Likewise, if a reload one could actually chop the reload time in half, by itself (though if the magazine capacity ones could double capacity, a reload one would need to do more still or at least cost less to halve the reload time).

 

I do think that damage and multishot mods need to be reworked though.  The multiplicative system causes issues when combined with how much of a boost each category can provide.  Even at just 2x damage each from dmg, multishot, and elemental, you're looking at an 8x increase over the starting damage.  That's a bit much.  In game, the numbers exceed that, with elemental alone typically providing an extra 270-360% damage..

Edited February 11, 2014 by Axterix13

[Vogav]

Let me tell you the before and after of what you suggest K?

 

Now: Yay I can kill the hard levels and it is still a little difficult which makes it fun :DDDD

 

When DE remove the mods you want to remove:

 

OH GOD!!!!! THIS IS HORRIBLE!!!! WHY CANT I KILL YOU?!!!! (friend shouting) AHHHHHHHHHHH I'M ON F****** FIRE!!!!!!!!!! WHY DE??! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!!!!!!!!! (friend shouting)

(Arnold schwarzenegger impersonator) WE NEED TO GET OUTA HERE!!! (schwarzenegger voices X2)

WE MUST GET TO OUR SPACE SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIP!!!!!! (Arnold schwarzenegger impersonator)

WE BARELY LASTED 5 MIN THOUGH :((((( 

 

And then on the space ship: WHERE DID MY F*ING ARM GO TO?!!!!!! oh crap I LOST MY ARM ON THAT SPACE SHIP!!!!!! F*CK!!!! (Grineers) YUM YUM a rhino hand YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY :DDDDDDDD (Grineers)

 

 

So please.... Think before you say such mean things :((((

[lautalocos]

to tell the truth, wouldnt this kind of thing be simpler if for a weapon level up, you get 3 energy points, which you can use to improve a weapon stat?

like, maybe damage uses 3 of those points, but mag capacity costs 1, and each stat costs a different number.

this takes out the "gotta catch them all" system for upgrading weapons/warframes

[Axterix13]

to tell the truth, wouldnt this kind of thing be simpler if for a weapon level up, you get 3 energy points, which you can use to improve a weapon stat?

like, maybe damage uses 3 of those points, but mag capacity costs 1, and each stat costs a different number.

this takes out the "gotta catch them all" system for upgrading weapons/warframes

DE wants the "gotta catch them all" system though.  Remove that thing to chase and it just leaves leveling.  Given that most people will take the course of least resistance, that in turn leads to people getting bored/burned out more easily.  They'll focus on the fastest way to level (survival/defense vs infestation).  Which is why you need something that gives them incentive to do different things.

 

Of course, too many things people feel they have to have, coupled with too little sense of progress toward getting them also results in people leaving.  The whole RNG hatred bit.  Bit of a balancing act.

[lautalocos]

DE wants the "gotta catch them all" system though.  Remove that thing to chase and it just leaves leveling.  Given that most people will take the course of least resistance, that in turn leads to people getting bored/burned out more easily.  They'll focus on the fastest way to level (survival/defense vs infestation).  Which is why you need something that gives them incentive to do different things.

 

Of course, too many things people feel they have to have, coupled with too little sense of progress toward getting them also results in people leaving.  The whole RNG hatred bit.  Bit of a balancing act.

why not add mods in top of that? they would have a lesser effect, but still make a difference. i mean keep the "gotta catch them all" mod system, and add the part of not needing mods

[Nubsawce]

I cannot begin to comprehend why people always insist on beating strawmen instead of ACTUALLY CONSIDERING THE OP.

 

With that out of the way, I think we really do need to see the same system as warframe levels added to weapons, removing flat damage improvements, and instead making mods more interesting. Multi-shot would say generate two half-damage shots, which is a good boost for status chance. There would be mods that nerfed attack speed to add damage, and ones that did the reverse. I realize that there should be at least a bit of room for some optimization, but I think we can do it by having people push stats around to make a custom-fit weapon.

 

Or perhaps, if we must keep serration, hornet strike, etc, at least make them 0 cost mods or something. There's just no reason to have it eat up all those mod points when everyone who wants to do well must have it equipped.

[YoreGawd]

I understand the sentiment and I actually do not think it is a bad idea. However, Leveling up serration all the way took a lot of credits and cores. If they remove the mods, I would want to get the hundreds of cored and probably close to 1M credits back. That last level alone took over 400K credits. 

Logistically this would be difficult. At max level, that damage would have to reach the same percentage as a max level serration. Same with hornet strike. Again, the credits I sunk into those mods, I better get back because that took bloody forever. 

Edited February 12, 2014 by YoreGawd

[ChaliceSoul]

Or perhaps, if we must keep serration, hornet strike, etc, at least make them 0 cost mods or something. There's just no reason to have it eat up all those mod points when everyone who wants to do well must have it equipped.

 

And make them have their own slot. Oh and make them guaranteed drops on Mercury, those new players need all of it.

[EdBazokatone]

 

Serration Retirement!?

-No, we're not retiring Serration, but we do want to increase damage diversity

-Circumstantial Damage buffs? Ex. Damage+ on headshots, Damage+ on unaware enemies, etc.

 

Source: Livestream 22

 

they said not yet, don't forget about that if you are quoting them, they said NOT YET!

 

so everyone... yes they are considering removing those mods.

[Thaumatos]

They should really get rid of straight damage adds.  Build them into the weapon's levels and let people use all 8 slots for fully diversifying their build.

 

Don't worry about your numbers kiddies, when they retire Serration chances are your weaponry will receive a slight buff if anything.  Sheesh...children and their "don't touch my numbers!" QQ.

[SPiRALFACToR]

why do these silly topics keep coming up?

all this will do is give me more room to add elemental damage mods and crit mods etc...

[arisaka]

why do these silly topics keep coming up?

all this will do is give me more room to add elemental damage mods and crit mods etc...

This is the first step towards completely changing the way mods work. In theory, if Serration/Multishot are the first ones to go, DE has to go all the way by making "damage increase" mods like elemental, crit, etc. less prevalent than "behavior" mods. There is no mod diversity as long as the majority of weapon mods only function as damage increases.

[Pirate_Shark]

No, try and level up weapons and mods like everybody else. That's what forma is for. I wouldn't want them to remove my fully ranked multi shot mods etc. I love them! Leave my stuff alone, go get your own. >:D

Edited February 12, 2014 by Pirate_Shark

[YourMoms]

You say get rid of multishot and damage mods - I say no.

 

There are many reasons that were multiply times anounced to numbrous people like you. among the reasons: time&resource refund, rebalancing etc.

 

The problem's not in the game but in whining instead of work.

[Enmity666]

No. I won't be able to tell my clanmates how infinitely better my weapons are compared to theirs.

 

They should add additional 2 slots exclusively for utility mods, such as mag. size, reload speed, puncture, etc, and make these mods level WITH a weapon they're installed on. That'd be nice. Besides, if they remove the straight damage mods, or the mods which affect power efficiency and strenght, there will barely be any point in trading and the F2P players will suffer. I don't completely like the way the current damage system works, but i don't approve the idea of those mods getting completely removed either.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Harbinger777