Digital Extremes Could Deliver So Much More

[tmtke]

I don't think that the operation staff is that huge. Mainly a game developer studio needs specialists in every field, if you are capable of doing different things, you're more and more valuable. For example, on the artists side, if you are a 3d modeller, but you can draw/paint as well, and you have a good understanding of UV/texturing, you are really well equipped, because in a lot of studios (obviously for other reasons too) these are separate tasks done by different people.

 

The content creation team is always counts much more eployees than the developer side, and while they have to work on something (remember, if a 3d modeller can create pretty cool weapons, it doesn't mean that he can do humans as well), they are assigned to tasks like "tenno reinforcements" and so on. This is a big issue for every studio I know, on the design phase and the most of the content creation phase you need far more artists than at the end of the project. One solution is running multiple projects, and content creation team is fluctuating between them, the other option is keep them busy like at DE.

 

For example, melee 2.0 needs far less modelers, but I think most of the animators and some programmers/designers working on this. This also means that a new prime or normal frame for example is just postponed, because it will also need animations (at least retargeting and/or cleanup) and so on.

[tmtke]

Also, on comparison with other games, the comparison would be definitely correct, if the (nearly) same features have been met:

* 3D/TPS (this affects a lot of things like physics, the amount of things you can see, the pathfindig for the AI and so on - that small one plus dimension makes things exponentially harder to implement)

* Microtransaction model

* F2P, you don't have to pay to play (have to separate it from the microtransaction model, because there are games which are combining the two)

* P2P networking plus additional stuff on servers (like Dojos and player management)

* Non-linear gameplay

* Random generated maps for better replayability (not as easy as it seems, I personally think that the falling off issues are mainly because of this - mostly where the tiles are connecting)

* Self fund, self distributed

 

So, comparison with games like Witcher or Skyrim or Fallout 3 is really stupid, because there is an ending point which you can reach, and you can do nothing further. Forget the open world illusion, however well built is the stage, it is far more limited in terms of possibilities, and a game designer can rely on that. Because if he wants to do a turning point in the game, he can decide to do it regardless what you want. He can make you lose every weapon or power you have. He can lock away entire areas in the world you can't reach anymore. In a game like warframe, the designers are needed to create a gameplay and a variety of playable levels, content and so on, which is rich enough to keep you playing - and they can't do the above.

 

So anyone over a few hundred hours and a couple of dollars spent, I think this is a mission accomplished. Why are you not rumbling if any of the mentioned games has no new DLC's or fixes, and you have to wait YEARS for the next in the series AND pay $60 for it AGAIN? Not to mention that most of these games are done in less than 100 hours, if you are not an extreme completionist.

Edited February 24, 2014 by tmtke

[NevanChambers]

lol OP you fail incredibly hard to acknowledge the most impotent asset that all of those companies were given for free which DE was not - Time. Also, DE works on other games too iirc, Warframe has been in development for a little over a single year. Fallout was in development for 4 years. Savvy?

How did it take that long for someone to point that out? The op has development time listed in there. Seriously it jumped right out at me when I first read the post I was just going through the replies to see if I needed to point it out. Edited February 24, 2014 by NevanChambers

[CapnFusterCluck]

The devs are to blame. The devs need to make a good experience for players. It's not a players job to find "fun" the developers must create an environment for such.

 

Also all those games can be purchased for less than the cost of the U12 bundle to put things in perspective.

Thing is, you don't have to buy the bundle with plat. You can farm all the pieces if you want to. 

 

And for your first point, ever heard of insanity? Take a load off, stop playing until the next update or something. 

[CapnFusterCluck]

I feel like we just found a new forum white knight contrarion. It's disgusting how some of you guys would go so far to write out why you think the content of 1 weapon per week and crappy fixes is a good thing.

 

This is beta, and bugs are everywhere. The latest hotfix (with more buyable clan tech) FINALLY fixed Sonar not working. This problem has been here since U8, and it was just finally fixed.

 

The rate of fixing/ releasing content is laughable.

Because DE can only juggle so many balls at one time. 

[Kiwi]

is this really the amount of thought people put into the game they spend 250+ hours on?

obvs <3 it's perf !

[Tyflos]

 

(LOGIC, YO)

Best post in the entire thread.

 

Thing is, you don't have to buy the bundle with plat. You can farm all the pieces if you want to. 

 

And for your first point, ever heard of insanity? Take a load off, stop playing until the next update or something. 

 

Refer to:

 

[...] real content, grind walls don't count because they just stretch content out [...]

 

... and a few other things. You CAN farm all the pieces. However, one of the reasons we end up playing so much is because we a specific goal we desire, i.e. materials to make a certain weapon or leveling up that weapon. I'm worried about Melee 2.0 because some comment or other indicated that movesets might be locked and gained through linear progression as you level.

 

I don't want to have to work in the game to start playing it. Warframe is a game where a large majority of the content is grinding and farming - and these are elements which can be stretched out as much as the devs make them, which is a cheap way of stretching out playtime. It's not dissimilar to making sections in singleplayer games far longer than they deserve to be, sometimes even in terms of physical distance. When that happens, you play because you HAVE to, not because you WANT to, and items are rewards instead of payments.

 

I've cleared the galaxy map, reached a high rank and have amassed a large arsenal. And in doing so, the greatest difference was the items I was using, and not whatever I was doing. I'm weaning myself off playing so much, but what is there left to do? Farm cells for items and grind gear? As I said, high rank, large arsenal: why should I be doing these things? The game has nothing else to offer, and the only reason I bore with it for so long is because it's structured to make you play it like this and because I am a completionist, so I give into that. Fun was present, but more undercurrent than melody.

 

Mass Effect 3's multiplayer shared some similar elements to Warframe. The item system was set up to be randomized so you kept playing to get what you wanted - but I always got something that was useful, instead of half a dozen prime duplicates. ME3's MP was also very repetitive in structure, but the GAMEPLAY was not repetitive. You had to focus on combining powers with your team, staying alive, positioning yourself, and working towards mid-mission objectives. It was very involved, and because of the dynamism of every moment, I never regretted a single minute of it. (Unlike the rest of ME3.)

 

I'm not saying rework the core gameplay of Warframe. In fact, Besides "more xxx," I don't know how to give feedback. But that's just it - even if I can't come up with ideas for the game, that's DE's job. Our job is to, with respect and composure, point them in the right direction so we can all continue playing Warframe.

[Bibliothekar]

I've cleared the galaxy map, reached a high rank and have amassed a large arsenal. And in doing so, the greatest difference was the items I was using, and not whatever I was doing. I'm weaning myself off playing so much, but what is there left to do? Farm cells for items and grind gear? As I said, high rank, large arsenal: why should I be doing these things? The game has nothing else to offer, and the only reason I bore with it for so long is because it's structured to make you play it like this and because I am a completionist, so I give into that. Fun was present, but more undercurrent than melody.

That's the main reason I'm looking forwards to the Proxy Wars and Focus stuff. I just hope, that "you'll find a Warrior lens" (Steve in Livestream #22, regarding "End Game") doesn't mean what I think it does. Or else this is going to turn into a massive grindcore festival for me again, just to find that one lens I want (I spent almost half a year searching Xini, Valefor and the Derelicts for Banshee helmet, until they announced the Tenno lab and I decided I could just wait those few weeks). I still have to see an Elite Crewman drop Jagged Edge ...

So I really do hope that we'll get a Special Alert Event to introduce the Focus stuff, like the Artifact Defense Event, which introduced new auras.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Bibliothekar

[Ishki88]

OP, that was an eye-opener.......sweet baby lotus.....

 

Very powerful.

Very thought out.

Very informative.

 

 

 

Edit:  Also this should influence DE.  It's up to them if it's a positive influence or the opposite.

 

Do they want to be about the $$$ or creating a classic game that would be played for generations to come........it's their choice......

 

Strength comes in numbers....yes..but strength means nothing with no foundation......I believe in DE and I believe they could do alot more with each hotfix....I know they can........but like I said.......is it $ or is it a classic game......are you listening to your mind or your heart.....or are you reading all the wrong and negativity comments on the forum......or llistening to the people who want to see the game prosper......people who want you to not give up on own designs (like me I want to see the unused gorgon design used so baddddddd)

 

meh

Edited February 26, 2014 by Ishki88

[Noble_Cactus]

That's the main reason I'm looking forwards to the Proxy Wars and Focus stuff. I just hope, that "you'll find a Warrior lens" (Steve in Livestream #22, regarding "End Game") doesn't mean what I think it does. Or else this is going to turn into a massive grindcore festival for me again, just to find that one lens I want (I spent almost half a year searching Xini, Valefor and the Derelicts for Banshee helmet, until they announced the Tenno lab and I decided I could just wait those few weeks). I still have to see an Elite Crewman drop Jagged Edge ...

So I really do hope that we'll get a Special Alert Event to introduce the Focus stuff, like the Artifact Defense Event, which introduced new auras.

 

I don't understand how the current plan for Focus could be considered "endgame." "Endgame" entails being able to use the fruits of your grinding labor to show off to friends and strangers and to use them to accomplish tasks. The acquiring of said tools is not an "endgame" in itself.

[Nod_Off]

I feel like we just found a new forum white knight contrarion. It's disgusting how some of you guys would go so far to write out why you think the content of 1 weapon per week and crappy fixes is a good thing.

 

This is beta, and bugs are everywhere. The latest hotfix (with more buyable clan tech) FINALLY fixed Sonar not working. This problem has been here since U8, and it was just finally fixed.

 

The rate of fixing/ releasing content is laughable.

I agree completely. Not to mention;

"[...] real content, grind walls don't count because they just stretch content out [...]" 

 

Is spot on. DE seems to be under the impression that adding more items to grind for will keep people playing. This is so very wrong. If this were the case all or at least some of my fellow closed beta players would still be here... But not a single one of the 100+ from my clan are still around. They got tired of grind content and only that being shoved down their throats with no hope for real content....

Edited February 27, 2014 by Zackai

[tmtke]

Not exactly my full opinion, but it seems fit.

 

[Darkshar]

Ummmm all those games you provided with their employee base took 4 or more years to make. And Warframe has only been released for a year so Im sure if you gave it 3 more years it would be just as good...

[SolidSp33d]

As soon as I saw the comparisons you tried to make I reached for the nearest table to flip.

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.