Buff The Seer Please?

[Raybrand]

make an dual seer and reduce reload speed

[LazyKnight]

The problem with blast damage is, that it needs status chance to actually trigger, which has nothing to do with an AoE radios. They can keep the regular damage and add 1m AoE just so.

There is no problem with 'blast' and it doesn't need a blast proc triggered. Penta has crap for a status effect rate, so why did you  say it "needs a status trigger" as a problem? Did I say it needs a blast effect, no I did not I said blast damage. Its not necessary to have a fixed blast stauts chance because Penta doesn't. 

 

If you going to say something about how explosive sheer things. Then why does Penta not cause massive gore? They made a more complex damage system that has a thing called "Blast" they might as well use it.

 

If you do not want blast just say so, as bogus issues are not a problem.

 

Why it should have blast.

1) The projectile is some sort of gas or ionized material.

2) What ever it was explodes.

3) How does gas or vaporize material have a slash component?

4) Not even Penta has a fixed blast proc yet it has AoE.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Khunvyel]

I think you haven't quite digested the second part of the quote you read, could that be?

 

My statement was: You do not necessarily need blast damage to slap an AoE effect on a weapon, and the Penta actually proves this. Blast proc = AoE damage BUT Penta does AoE damage without a proc. So basically what you are saying is support my statement argument :D

 

What I was saying with the other part of my argument, that I am not sure if the damage should be Blast to begin with. Of course it can be, but perhaps that would be detrimental to the character of the weapon? It is a Grineer Orokin hybrid, so I can very well guess it will still be kinda effective against Corpus. Grineer enjoy hunting down and killing Tenno (while researching them a little in the process) so it also has to be not bad against Warframes. We also sport shields but some of us do have a decent chunk of armor. So all this would at least reason why the Seer has all 3 damage types on equal.

Now if we look at what BLAST damage does; rather bad against Grineer (which would be okay) but zero pros / cons for Corpus, and bonuses against some Ancients. That doesn't sound like a Grineer-Orokin Hybrid to me. Comparing that to an even spread of physical damage, it doesn't do better or worse BUT. The advantage of basing it on physical damage being, you can mod the weapon however you want and put emphasis on the different physical damage types, depending on what you want to be up against.

This would be impossible with blast damage.

 

Why it does slash damage but still the graphic is a small explosion? I dunno, man, it is a Grineer-OROKIN hybrid. That might do whatever.

If you are going to question such things, then you should rather ask yourself, why Lasers cause BLEED? :P

 

We must also never forget, that we are basing this part of the discussion on a graphic effect. If DE decides to remove this effect and replace it with a smaller impact, then the entire point became moot anyway.

[LazyKnight]

I think you haven't quite digested the second part of the quote you read, could that be?

You're talking past the point I raised, and the only thing I brought up was changing it to blast damage. I in no way insinuated that it should have an AoE, and you claimed it was a problem that it needed to trigger to yield an AoE effect. Maybe you though I was implying by choosing blast I wanted it to have AoE, and that is not the case. 

 

My Part about Penta was about the damage didn't need the Proc, and not the AoE component. Bullets with blast damage have zero range and simply do blast damage that has a status effect with range. I also think I should drink coffee before typing.

 

I want it to do blast damage because it fits far better than an even mix of I/s/p on a weapon that uses a glass bulb as an ammo supply and is clearly shooting something that is not solid. Seer is one of the few weapon in game that just seems totally wrong in its damage type.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Khunvyel]

Well, you said further up;

 

I wonder if it would work to convert seer to full blast damage, and make it have 100 total blast to compensate for any lost damage from I/s/p. This could let DE give it a small AoE radius, and it just seems like it would fit that whatever was just launched exploded.

 

Which sounded like your justification of having Blast damage in order to get AoE damage. I might have not been exactly clear with my follow up message, but we've seen other weapons doing AoE damage by default, and not blast proc based. So this makes me wonder a little how you can say of not having insinuated to have an AoE, when this quote shows that you have exactly proposed that?

*confused*

 

And while your point is absolutely right and valid in terms of base damage type not seeming to fit, though I'd rather keep that at first and only change other numerical values slightly which would get it more in line as a bandaid so more thought can be put into the actual damage type. I'm just not sure if pure blast damage would be good or bad for the growth and damage potential of the gun.

[LazyKnight]

Well, you said further up;

*confused*

It is my fault for the confusion, sorry. I should have clarified in detail. I do not want to derail this anymore, suffice to say I meant the effect as the AoE and the damage type blast.

 

I'm just not sure if pure blast damage would be good or bad for the growth and damage potential of the gun.

Most NPC have resistance to at least one of the I/s/p, and the reason I said give it 100 blast was to balance out any lose it incurred. An extra 10-15 damage would scales with mods and I can double check in a few but it shouldn't hurt it.

 

Edit: The only NPC it would be weaker to is sinew, all others would be better to have more blast.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Khunvyel]

Alright! Apologies from my end for causing further confusion, sometimes my english does that :D

 

Sadly I do not own any of the "Launcher" type weapons. Or rather, I do, but the Penta currently sits in the foundry waiting to be claimed, so I couldn't run any test in terms of how mods affect the damage. It seems that the "I always do AoE on impact" damage is caused by a different source than the base damage anyway. I reckon this damage scales just like base damage with mods like Serration and other elemental mod.

 

So in this case we would need to balance both kinds of damage against each other; the projectile impact itself and then the size and damage of the AoE.

The lack of IPS mods would mean that it has a smaller min-to-max possible damage spread, so that would make the Seer automatically more powerful regardless when picked up from the start. It would also require less mods for damage because it wouldn't require any of the IPS mods, making it even more versital, earlier on. This is mainly why I am treading lightly with Blast damage. It feels like you can easily make or break the weapon, which is why I hope they slightly buff different values first and see how it turns out.

[LazyKnight]

Penta hits for (I think) 75 impact-damage just by lobbing a Grenade directly at a target, and not detonating it. It has two damage values, one for the Grenade hitting something and one for detonating it. The reason that Penta kills everything is because it has 350-blast damage on detonation that scales with mods.

 

If seer was given 100 blast damage it would still be weaker than a Marelok. Even if Seer was treated like a min-Ogris round and hit a target for 20 damage and exploded for 80 it would still be weaker.

[bobafetthotmail]

+1 to buff the seer. It's cool.

The problem with blast damage is, that it needs status chance to actually trigger, which has nothing to do with an AoE radios. They can keep the regular damage and add 1m AoE just so.

Ogris and Penta have a separate projectile dealing its own damage, AND a boom effect triggered by contact or command (respectively).

 

I'd rather have it deal Radiation or whatever