Ash: Skill Tweak

[Shashu]

RE-EDITED WHOLE POST

I did the whole post again to make it smaller.. simpler to read and also few changes in my original idea.

 

There has been allot of edits and changes recently but its turning out well, starting to make Ash alot more real stealth frame.

 

Edit: Before i keep forgetting, can we also get a new design for ash's body.... everytime i look at it i keep thinking pyjamas... with deformed arm gaurds.. dunno why. Its just dull and plain, needs more depth and more ninja looking. (with more smoke)

 

 

Ash: The idea for Ash this time was to make a easier teleport for what people want yet still make use of shuriken, so i combined them together, for smoke screen i made it more of a team play aspect than what Loki can offer on his yet still keep that similar style. Lastly his blade storm right now may look cool but isn't doing well with partys and late game. 

 

 

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Please give out your suggestions on what could be changed or choose what is best in the suggestions.
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Skill: 1: Smoke Blade 
 

- Throws a high speed blade dealing damage and blinding targets while also acting as a teleporter pin pointer. 

 

- Range 50.m (unaffected by range)

- Energy 25 

- Deals Puncture damage. 250 / 250 / 350 / 500 (effected by power)

- Slight traval time

- Silent

- Free Aim

- Can perform Headshots.

- The blade will act as a pinpoint portal for Teleport

- If target dies while blade still attached, the blade will vanish.

- Surrounds the targets head or body with smoke blinding it.

- The blind lasts for 5 seconds. (unaffected by duration)

- Can only throw 1 per blade resetting / vanishing the first blade.

- Teleport will vanish the blade.

 

 

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Suggestions: (Feel free to give your own).

 

- None yet

 

 

Reason:    Everyone seems to want teleport to be free aim because Nova can, but Ash teleport isn't used for escaping the battlefield but to catch up or engage with his targets. Free aim with teleport may end up badly due to missing your target and ending up on the other side, that is where this skill comes into play to help pinpoint where you want to be and be sure you hit your target keeping where it is while you can teleport over to kill it up close. (Read more about how teleport works below)

(Yes it sounds similar to Narutos Dad (Yellow Flash) but only notice it was similar after i thought it up, ether way this could work well for Ash.

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Skill: 2: Smoke Trail 

 

- Covers Ash in an aura of smoke making him invisible and leaves a trail of smoke behind whenever he moves.

 

- Energy 50

 

- Duration 3 / 5 / 7 / 10 (effected with duration mods)

 

- With the Teleport 3 second invisiblity was used while smoke trail is active the durarion of this skill will be increased with 3 seconds ( Read on teleport below)

 

- Staggers enemies that gets in contact with.

 

- Ally's are able to follow the trail rendering them invisible as well gaining the benefits of melee stealth damage.

 

 

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Suggestions: (Feel free to give your own)

 

- Using Smoke blade then teleport while in smoke trail creates a jump portal for ally's to also teleport with him.

 

- Cloaks Ash and nearby ally's invisible as if everyone has smoke screen giving them more freedom in stealth.

Reason:    This will be Ash's only team play skill, letting him and his ally's to stealth together where he goes.

(This idea was brought up by Pie_mastyr in the old post idea before edited)

 

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Skill: 3: Teleport

 

- Energy 5 (you will be using the Smoke blade first which costs you 25 then teleport costing you a total of 30).

 

- Can teleport to enemies behind cover as well you being behind cover.

 

- Can teleport to the blade in mid air. (This lets you decide how far you want to teleport with free aim from 1-50 m

 

- When teleport is used on a target, you are teleported behind the target while at the same time taking the smoke blind from the

target to Ash turning him invis for 3 seconds.

 

- The blade and blind will vanish when teleported to.

 

 

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Suggestions: (Feel free to give your own)

 

- 

 

 

Reason:    As i said with the reason on Smoke Blade, its almost a free aim teleport but only if you use the Shadow/Smoke Blade. This also greatly helps to judge the distance on where you want your free aim teleport as your able to teleport to blade on its travel.

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Skill: 4: Assassination (mostly a 1 hit kill skill)

 

Option 1: Single use only. Teleports to a seleted creating a smoke dome or area of smoke around the target. The target is stunned for the whole duration of the skill. Ash and the target are invurnable to other sources of damage while other enemies within the area of the ultimate's smoke are ether stun / blind / slowed for a slight duration. (which ever sounds better)

- Deals Finisher damage ignoring armor and resist.

 

- Duration 5 or 7 seconds (uneffected by duration) 

 

- Does multiple finisher moves around the target per second. (As if your doing 7 targets with bladestorm, DE may add new ones if it was implemented)

 

- Ether does allot of damage 30-50k total finisher damage or completely kills it in 1 hit no matter what (bare in mind, this is only doing damage to 1 target while slightly CCs others around)

 

Boss's

 

- Invulnerable is immune on boss's letting team mates deal damage.

- 1 Second stun but keeps the boss still on the spot.

- Can only be used when boss is 20% below HP

- If the boss's HP reachs 0% while ultimate is active it will still continue acting as an overkill.

 

                                                                      ---------------------------------

 

Option 2: Single with multiple.

 

- Creates a Dome or Area of smoke around Ash stopping all targets within. While Ash executes killing blows per target within the area dealing divided damage to the amount of targets there is. (shown below in example)

 

- Duration of the skill depends on the amount of enemies. (shown below in example)

 

- Can be used with Smoke blade to teleport.

 

- Damage is Divided by total damage to amount of enemies. (Idea from OniWarrior's Post of his Ultimate suggestion)

 

Example: 1 target deals 30k damage last's for 2 secons, 2 targets deals 15k per lasts for 3 seconds, 4 targets deal 7500 per lasts 5 seconds, 10 targets deal 3000 per lasts 12 seconds. Something like that (half damage on boss's)

 

 

 

OR

 

 

Bladestorm: (depending on what people think ill add more info)

 

Keep the bladestorm name but change the whole concept to fit the name, doing a deadly spin of smoke on the spot throwing daggers around Ash hitting per or random targets with a reduction of income damage. 

 

 

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Suggestions: (Feel free to give your own)

 

- Smoke clones appear on the rest of the enemies around the seleted target Ash is on while each clone does a random finisher

move. (as if it is doing bladestorm per target but doing all at once making the ultimate faster)

 

- Smoke Dome turns all targets invis for pure silent kill. (still enough for team mates to see)

 

 

Reason:     It needs more damage and speed with a slight CC. Damage right now doesn't do well late game specially due to the fact is slow than any other ultimate. We could speed the animation but would look weird so all is left is damage, but that's if you get a chance to kill anything with team mates killing everything faster than you. The CC would be mostly helpful late game even if damage doesn't do well, the CC still counts.

 

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Edit 1: Changes to post again with points and skill tweaks.

Edit 2: Tweaked more of the skills and change of bladestorm with more ideas.

Edit 3: Tweaked Smoke Blade and other skills with some missing input.

Edit 4: Redone Assassination again and more clearer to read.

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I hope this was better than original post. But yea like i said i tried to make him abit more opposite of Loki yet still have the similar

game play to what Ash has right now.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Shashu

[Pie_mastyr]

Some good ideas in there, I can see you took some time and effort putting your ideas together for this!

I have been thinking along some of the same lines here, and I agree with you for the most part. 

 

I think the idea of having a charge/hold-able skill like your suggested shuriken is pretty enticing, and it would be efficient when used with skill which is a plus.

 

I do agree that smokescreen should have a team buff attached, just seems to make sense. But when you take this idea into consideration, limiting that buff to a radius, while balancing it out vs the duration, seems to limit the ability to actually benefit from the buff. Possible make it so ash shrouds himself in an aura of smoke, enemies caught in it are stunned and teammates are buffed to be invisible as well when inside. The balancing factor here would be duration, have it stay at 8 or slight buff to 10, but 15 is a bit too much.

 

Teleport. this one could be pretty simple, just add a bit of room for error. as in, I pressed the teleport button, I intend to teleport. So whatever enemy is closest to the centre of my reticule, it will snap to. simple enough.

 

Bladestorm.... like a movie, too much like a movie. My biggest problem with this is lack of input, just press 4 and wait for 10-20 seconds. So keep a similar style to what exists, but allow the player to choose who and when to strike (max 18 times?). This ultimate is a toughie because it is very nice looking and defines ash so well as far as style is concerned.

 

But yeah overall great ideas!

[Shashu]

Some good ideas in there, I can see you took some time and effort putting your ideas together for this!

I have been thinking along some of the same lines here, and I agree with you for the most part. 

 

I think the idea of having a charge/hold-able skill like your suggested shuriken is pretty enticing, and it would be efficient when used with skill which is a plus.

 

I do agree that smokescreen should have a team buff attached, just seems to make sense. But when you take this idea into consideration, limiting that buff to a radius, while balancing it out vs the duration, seems to limit the ability to actually benefit from the buff. Possible make it so ash shrouds himself in an aura of smoke, enemies caught in it are stunned and teammates are buffed to be invisible as well when inside. The balancing factor here would be duration, have it stay at 8 or slight buff to 10, but 15 is a bit too much.

 

Teleport. this one could be pretty simple, just add a bit of room for error. as in, I pressed the teleport button, I intend to teleport. So whatever enemy is closest to the centre of my reticule, it will snap to. simple enough.

 

Bladestorm.... like a movie, too much like a movie. My biggest problem with this is lack of input, just press 4 and wait for 10-20 seconds. So keep a similar style to what exists, but allow the player to choose who and when to strike (max 18 times?). This ultimate is a toughie because it is very nice looking and defines ash so well as far as style is concerned.

 

But yeah overall great ideas!

Thank you for a great reply,

 

Your smoke screen idea is pretty good, mabey am taking it abit to realistic in how a smoke screen would be rather thinking out the box. 

 

Yea with the teleport, best thing would be just to keep as it is but with a bigger reticule and less of a delay, 

 

If teleport is kept as it is but fixed, we can then keep the bladestorm effect and style but go with the single target showing all the kill animations at a lesser time than 10secons or untill the target dies before finish the rest of the strikes making it quick or long depending on the targets health.

[Shashu]

RE-EDITED THE WHOLE POST - Made it easier to read and less content with a few changes.

 

 

Anyone that has read it may need to re-read sry :P

[(PSN)OniWarrior]

I like most of your ideas here. Most are fairly sensible, adding buffs without overpowering the skill (unlike some others I've seen). The only thing I disagree with is Bladestorm. Dealing a lot of damage to a single enemy over a large period of time whilst preventing others from hitting that target would be worse for team play than it is currently.

I have made a post of my own that tries to address his problems in a similar manner,

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/190231-my-ideas-for-ash/

Hopefully, if the devs see enough of post like these they will finally give him the attention he needs and we will start to see the only true ninja frame see some more action in this awesome space ninja game.

[TonyFoot]

niiiice...+1.

 

throw this in with melee 2.0, and, hopefully, we'll have a true master assassin on the team.

[sammun]

Make invisibility last longer

Replace teleportation with a clone that follows you and imitates your moves, but deals reduced damage

Make it so bladestorm deals a flat amount of damage PLUS 150% damage from the melee weapon you have equipped.

[Kutsuu]

Make invisibility last longer

Replace teleportation with a clone that follows you and imitates your moves, but deals reduced damage

Make it so bladestorm deals a flat amount of damage PLUS 150% damage from the melee weapon you have equipped.

Replacing teleportation with a clone is abit too much of a Loki copy I'd say so not sure that would be a good idea.

[Shashu]

I like most of your ideas here. Most are fairly sensible, adding buffs without overpowering the skill (unlike some others I've seen). The only thing I disagree with is Bladestorm. Dealing a lot of damage to a single enemy over a large period of time whilst preventing others from hitting that target would be worse for team play than it is currently.

I have made a post of my own that tries to address his problems in a similar manner,

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/190231-my-ideas-for-ash/

Hopefully, if the devs see enough of post like these they will finally give him the attention he needs and we will start to see the only true ninja frame see some more action in this awesome space ninja game.

 

Thanks for the reply! and i'll read your post when i can :) but as for the bladestorm yea hardest skill to change, the invulnarblity was to let Ash actully finish his skill for once while at the same time CC the target letting team mates clear the area around it or in a boss case let them regen up / save down team mates. We could make the duration 5seconds and make the target unable to be Assassanated again if used as Assassinate is ment to be a 1 hit kill without the target knowing ina sense.

 

Ill think of a better way around it though to make it a little more team play.

 

niiiice...+1.

 

throw this in with melee 2.0, and, hopefully, we'll have a true master assassin on the team.

 

What am hoping for! :D

 

Make invisibility last longer

Replace teleportation with a clone that follows you and imitates your moves, but deals reduced damage

Make it so bladestorm deals a flat amount of damage PLUS 150% damage from the melee weapon you have equipped.

 

I think keeping the teleport as it is in duration due to that i put in the trail of smoke that staggers everything in its path and stealthing team mates, when u wanna buff a skill you need a negitive side to it :P

 

As for the clone idea, no, i bet alot of ppl would complain it being to much like loki with his decoy

 

Bladestorm, making it do more damage still wont do much for early game as everything dies before you get the chance, mabey for late game but you still have to wait on the skill to finish which would take 10-20 seconds. The animations is prob as fast as it can go, any faster would look weirder.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Shashu

[Shashu]

Bump?

[(PSN)OniWarrior]

The change you have made to Bladestorm I think is better now. Removing one target from action for the duration of the skill while stunning nearby enemies certainly improves it's team play capabilities.

[Scar.Heart]

Overall, my biggest concern for Ash is his inability to use any of his abilities without alarming currently unaware enemies.

The first and foremost tweak/buff Ash needs is innate silence on all his skills.

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I'm digging the Smoke Trail ability. So much yes.

Not feelin' much on the other abilities. I'm fine with leaving his 1 and 4 receiving simple tweaks/buffs.

 

As for Teleport:

Allow Teleport to be a standalone ability, rather than requiring the use of #1 before initiating #3. You can now TP to the selected target and initiate an attack. Two actions, one energy cost.

 

 

I apologize for anything I may have misunderstood.

[Shashu]

The change you have made to Bladestorm I think is better now. Removing one target from action for the duration of the skill while stunning nearby enemies certainly improves it's team play capabilities.

 

Thanks for the reply again Oni :P and good to know bladestorm sounding better.

 

Overall, my biggest concern for Ash is his inability to use any of his abilities without alarming currently unaware enemies.

The first and foremost tweak/buff Ash needs is innate silence on all his skills.

____

I'm digging the Smoke Trail ability. So much yes.

Not feelin' much on the other abilities. I'm fine with leaving his 1 and 4 receiving simple tweaks/buffs.

 

As for Teleport:

Allow Teleport to be a standalone ability, rather than requiring the use of #1 before initiating #3. You can now TP to the selected target and initiate an attack. Two actions, one energy cost.

 

 

I apologize for anything I may have misunderstood.

 

Thanks for the reply! and uh yea i should actually put that his skills are silent sry i did say i was trying to make it as much similar as Ash is now but i guess that wasn't clear xD my bad ill edit them in, 

 

But yea as for his Blade and Teleport, the idea was to make more use of shuriken for later game as am not sure if anyone realy use's it as SS and Teleport is the way to go. So yea the Smoke Blade is silent, also gives a CC effect now with the blind making him unaware whats happening and keeping him still while your able to teleport where ever and when ever, even if hes behind cover or your behind cover readying up Smoke screen to turn invis and also staggers the target when you teleport, no need to aim yet again with teleport after you  hit your target with the blade.

 

PS: also to put in is with the blade you can judge the distance of how far you want to free aim your teleport to get to far away places but not wanting to hit a wall like Nova does alot. 

 

It ifs to much to use all 3 skills, we could make teleport a small buff in invis since target loses its blind effect once you do teleport.,which ill put into the optional changes.

 

Oh and his ulti is silent to, cant call it assassinate if it isn't a silent kill :P

 

Edit: I just changed a few things and new stuff in, hoping it sounds alot more silent and the 4 skills work together better.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Shashu

[(PSN)OniWarrior]

As for Teleport:

Allow Teleport to be a standalone ability, rather than requiring the use of #1 before initiating #3. You can now TP to the selected target and initiate an attack. Two actions, one energy cost.

Make Smoke Blade a targeted as ability. If no enemies currently have a Smoke Blade stuck in them have Teleport as a free aim skill for traversal (cannot target enemies). If a Smoke Blade is stuck in an enemy Teleport works as described in the original post, with all the added benefits that brings.

Best of both worlds = win win!

[Kutsuu]

I like all the ideas you made and does make Ash feel like a real Stealth frame, the shuriken and teleport sounds alot more sensiable than just a free aim teleport for Ash which I get your point with, it is hard enough teleporting to a target as it is now and with free aim you can easily miss and end up somewhere far off wasteing energy and time.

Smoke Screen I would love to have, this would make team stealth play more viable.

Assassination sounds more fitting with your idea, I do like the CC effect it can give while Ash executes his target without worrying that someone will steal it in the mids of the duration.

I also thought of a nice idea on Bladestorm since you made that name change. Basicly it would be you spinning around throwing blades either per target or random, take 50% damage reduction? For a small duration around 6 seconds? Would sound more fitting to the name Bladestorm. It's a thought.

[Shashu]

I like all the ideas you made and does make Ash feel like a real Stealth frame, the shuriken and teleport sounds alot more sensiable than just a free aim teleport for Ash which I get your point with, it is hard enough teleporting to a target as it is now and with free aim you can easily miss and end up somewhere far off wasteing energy and time.

Smoke Screen I would love to have, this would make team stealth play more viable.

Assassination sounds more fitting with your idea, I do like the CC effect it can give while Ash executes his target without worrying that someone will steal it in the mids of the duration.

I also thought of a nice idea on Bladestorm since you made that name change. Basicly it would be you spinning around throwing blades either per target or random, take 50% damage reduction? For a small duration around 6 seconds? Would sound more fitting to the name Bladestorm. It's a thought.

 

Thank you for the reply! Glad to hear you like all the ideas.

 

As for your bladestorm idea, i think that's awesome, it does sound more fitting for the name Bladestorm and i wouldnt mind losing the animated kill's of the current one to a spinning deadly blade storm of death. Ill add that to my suggestions see what others think of :) if they even read that part lol