Game Becoming To Much Of A "pay To Win" Type Game.

[Venarge]

Hate to break it to you, but this game would NOT be worth $60. No way. There's not NEARLY enough content. Maybe once it's out of beta, but not before.

 

And frankly, I'm sick of YOUR attitude. "If you don't want to pay to play this "free-to-play game" then you don't have the right to complain about it." Warframe and weapons slots are NOT "more than the regular stuff"- they're part of the basic framework of the game. They are something we should not HAVE to pay for. It's like expecting us to pay for access to the planets.

 

And by the way, they won't "give you warframe slots by playing".

 

 

Oh, so they didnt mentioned that this slot thing being a problem they work on? Watch the Q&A before talking nonsense...

Access to planets, oh boy. I play my excal without being supercharged. Just because you cant handle it without a charged frame doesnt mean others cant do. besides that, what have you done with your start plat. You could have upgraded on set for sure. but that doesnt count right?It doesnt matter if you pay or not pay. In which post did I actually say that people who pay are better?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[Story4]

Whati posted in another thread:

 

Only thing this game needs is craftable slots and orokin ractors, 100.000 blueprint each and 50.000 craft cost. If this was done it would have been perfect, right now IMO it is a little pay 2 win because you can buy potatoes only with plat which are extremely hard to acquire otherwise and also the fact that you can't have all the weapons/warframes unless you pay with platinum for slots.

 

If every warframe cost 100.000 the bp and 50.000 to craft then it would be 1.800.000 creds, extremely hard to get and it would balance the game for F2P players.

 

Everyone keeps saying that and it's STILL not true. You HAVE to buy warframe and arsenal slots with platinum, there's no other way of getting them. Considering the game is BASED around acquiring and levelling up a collection of warframes and weapons, you essentially HAVE TO spend money at some point if you want to keep playing (what are you going to do, sell a warframe? Those things take SO long to grind for I'd sooner cut off my own foot than sell one!).

 

And that's inexcusable. When I run out of slots and have spent the complementary 50 platinum they gave me to start, that's when I'll uninstall. I will NOT be held to ransom like this.

 

And he is correct, this game isn't really free2play, it's more like free2play until you have to pay for slots.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Story4

[parkel]

Whati posted in another thread:

 

Only thing this game needs is craftable slots and orokin ractors, 100.000 blueprint each and 50.000 craft cost. If this was done it would have been perfect, right now IMO it is a little pay 2 win because you can buy potatoes only with plat which are extremely hard to acquire otherwise and also the fact that you can't have all the weapons/warframes unless you pay with platinum for slots.

 

If every warframe cost 100.000 the bp and 50.000 to craft then it would be 1.800.000 creds, extremely hard to get and it would balance the game for F2P players.

 

 

And he is correct, this game isn't really free2play, it's more like free2play until you have to pay for slots.

 

1) Orokin reactors can be crafted, you just need to beg the RNG Gods for good wealth that day. Buying Orokin Reactor Bps with IGC (in game credits) will be DE bashing themselves in the face since money is relatively easy to earn later on in the game, even if you do not grind. 

 

2) Same thing for crafting warframe/weapon slots.

[Story4]

1) Orokin reactors can be crafted, you just need to beg the RNG Gods for good wealth that day. Buying Orokin Reactor Bps with IGC (in game credits) will be DE bashing themselves in the face since money is relatively easy to earn later on in the game, even if you do not grind. 

 

2) Same thing for crafting warframe/weapon slots.

Umm no.

 

If you put the costs of only buying and crafting without components then you would reach a level of over 4 milion credits if you want to buy all the slots and craft an orokin reactor for all of them. Considering that if you want to use fusion and the fact that you also have to buy weapons and blueprints with credits and fusion costs you would be over 5 milions. I have played over 100 hours and i almost reached 1.5 milions and i only have 100.000 left! I honestly don't think that this would affect the developers in the least considering that if someone wanted every warframe supercharged as with every weapon supercharged and every slot etc. it would be easily over 400 hours.

[Venarge]

Guys, they want to add the slots as well. So whats left after that. Potatoes. And they will most likely work on that too.

[MakubeX]

its not pay to win its pay to progress.

[parkel]

Guys, they want to add the slots as well. So whats left after that. Potatoes. And they will most likely work on that too.

 

What do you mean? o.o

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

its not pay to win its pay to progress.

I've yet to see any post from someone saying they couldn't complete all the missions (co-op) because they haven't bought any plat.

 

Perhaps more accurate to say it's Pay to Collect.

 

You can play as much as you want, but if you want to get everything you will at some point have to pay (slots)...Personally I don't have any issue with this whatsoever. If I can't afford to buy a slot, I'll just play with what I've got until I can afford it.

[11.11.11]

[MakubeX]

I've yet to see any post from someone saying they couldn't complete all the missions (co-op) because they haven't bought any plat.

 

Perhaps more accurate to say it's Pay to Collect.

 

You can play as much as you want, but if you want to get everything you will at some point have to pay (slots)...Personally I don't have any issue with this whatsoever. If I can't afford to buy a slot, I'll just play with what I've got until I can afford it.

 

ok then its pay to collect and im ok with that im paying just only for the slots and cata/reactors. :)) 

Edited April 13, 2013 by MakubeX

[Anelyn]

How is this Pay to Win, when you want a different skin / set of abilities? Is your excalibur restricted from accessing all content, using all his powers, mods, weapons etc?

Let's be frank here, even if you CAN (which you do) achieve everything by playing the game, it's still nice to show your SUPPORT to DEVs team by doing small purchases here and there.

Building Loki now, takes 3 days (with 12h before that for each part). I could come here and QQ that OMG why 3 days when someone who purchases Loki gets them instant? Yet I have the option to rush the craft time with Plats for a smaller amount than what I'd pay if I purchase it, or simply not craft it and buy it. You want everything and want it now? Pull out your wallet bro.

[Venarge]

Peopel still whine over a game they get for free and still want more. Just funny....

[Story4]

Peopel still whine over a game they get for free and still want more. Just funny....

 

You don't get the whole game for free. To me it's funnier that people who payed are so pissed that F2P players want a fair chance at getting all the warframes and weapons and potatoes without paying even if they have to farm a ton to get it. It's quite simple. You don't want to farm but want to get warframes? then you have to pay for the convenience of not farming 40 or more hours for a warframe and a slot. OFC we are not including visual stuff like skins colors etc. which should only be purchasable with plat.

 

The game at the moment is more like an extended demo where if you want to get everything and be powerfull you have to pay, otherwise you have to repeat the demo.

[Venarge]

You don't get the whole game for free. To me it's funnier that people who payed are so &!$$ed that F2P players want a fair chance at getting all the warframes and weapons and potatoes without paying even if they have to farm a ton to get it. It's quite simple. You don't want to farm but want to get warframes? then you have to pay for the convenience of not farming 40 or more hours for a warframe and a slot. OFC we are not including visual stuff like skins colors etc. which should only be purchasable with plat.

 

The game at the moment is more like an extended demo where if you want to get everything and be powerfull you have to pay, otherwise you have to repeat the demo.

 

Thats just BS....

Fair chance? You get this game as a gift. You can have all the warframes, but not at the same time. You have the ability to get every weapon/warframe without paying a cent. Pretty much awesome for not paying for a game with that graphics and gameplay. Well, the people these days just cant get enough for actually nothing. sad..... And since they will add the other things as well in order to avoid even more whining ,everyone will be pleased.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[Story4]

Thats just BS....

Fair chance? You get this game as a gift. You can have all the warframes, but not at the same time. You have the ability to get every weapon/warframe without paying a cent. Pretty much awesome for not paying for a game with that graphics and gameplay. Well, the people these days just cant get enough for actually nothing. sad..... And since they will add the other things as well in order to avoid even more whining ,everyone will be pleased.

Yeah a fair chance. That's how other games do it, is it so hard for this one to do the same? And the fact that you can't have all the warframes/weapons at the same time is pretty much like playing a demo again because you won't be able to get past a certain level.

[Venarge]

Yeah a fair chance. That's how other games do it, is it so hard for this one to do the same? And the fact that you can't have all the warframes/weapons at the same time is pretty much like playing a demo again because you won't be able to get past a certain level.

 

Your attitude is like you get a new console with a controller as a gift and still complain about not getting 2 controllers instead. Thats so sad.....

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[vieuxchat]

Yeah a fair chance. That's how other games do it, is it so hard for this one to do the same? And the fact that you can't have all the warframes/weapons at the same time is pretty much like playing a demo again because you won't be able to get past a certain level.

 

World of Tank won't let you have every tank. But most of them. And you have only place for 8 or 10 tanks. You have to pay for some elements on your tanks (elements that aren't just fluff).And noone is whining about that.What I can understand is the fact that those who don't pay want a very similar experience to those who pay. I have no problem with that, I have no problem with the fact that those that play that game for free can do it with the money the paying ones have spent.I think the frustrating thing is that 3 slots for warframes is very few. 8 isn't as few, but still.I'll continue my comparison with WoT : after a month of play I've 4 tanks that I play regularly (well, not since I bought the founders package for warframe, because I prefer playing warframe :P WoT is a very very good experience) My 4 tanks are at tier 5 when there's 10 tiers.In warframe, which I played with spending as few plat as I could (only bought MAG which I got with an Orokin reactor and some reveives before I knew what plat was), and I've an excal at 15, anx excal prime at 27 and mag at 30. In less than two weeks. The pacing isn't the same at all.But I wouldn't want to slow even further the pacing : in WoT you can play a long time without being bored because the 5 different kind of tank have all a role and a different way of playing - tank destroyers, light/medium/heavy tanks and artillery lead to very different ways to play the game). At the moment, the gameplay of Warframe is the same whatever frame you take. The abilities just add some flavor. What change the gameplay a lot are weapons : using the paris is really different from a shotgun or than from a rifle.With that said, what could be done to help devs get some money AND free players be happy ?

[Story4]

Your attitude is like you get a new console with a controller as a gift and still complain about not getting 2 controllers instead. Thats so sad.....

 

 

It doesn't have anything to do with it... Especially since you have to grind alot if you want to get anything in the game, like i said with the slots in a previous example.

It's like getting a console that says on the box that it comes with 4 games but once i open it i find out that i can only play one and i have to pay for the others if i want to play them. It's not a perfect example but neither is yours.

I get that you guys don't want other F2P players to get what you got with platinum especially since you paid 250$ for the game, but you should have expected this especially since the game is marketed as a F2P game... Again i don't mind not getting skins or colors but slots and orokins should be farmable even if it takes alot of time for one.

 

This game's F2P system looks more like an overglorified demo than a true F2P.

[11.11.11]

 

This game's F2P system looks more like an overglorified demo than a true F2P.

 

I have never played a demo that allowed me to earn and unlock new content. 

[Story4]

 

Hmm yes i forgot about the armor-piercing ammo of world of tanks and some equipement stuff if i recall corretly that can only be bought with gold?

Not the best example if i think about it, but still the fact that you can get any tank and if you sell one you can buy it back and still have all teh advancements you've made with it is a good thing.

 

Again, if a slot for warframes would be 100.000 bp and 25.000 to craft, a slot for weapons would be 50.000 bp and 25.000 to craft and every orokin reactor/catalyst would be 100.000 bp and 25.000 to craft that would be over 400-500 hours of playtime without accounting the time it takes to farm, to find mods, to get the blueprints for the warframes/weapons etc. And since DE will keep addind to the game who knows how long it will take after 1 year to get everything.

 

I was in League of Legends closed beta for some time and the grind time to get all the heroes was a bit over 100 hours, maybe 150 when it went to open beta. Even as it is, the grind in this game is A LOT bigger than it ever was in LoL at the begining and i don't see that game dying anytime soon.

 

I have never played a demo that allowed me to earn and unlock new content.

Play Mount&Blade demo.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Story4

[vieuxchat]

The mount and blade demo won't let you get over level 5 (or 10 ? I don't remember).

I understand you when you say that you don't want to re-grind after selling a warframe. So much time involved in constructing a warframe will make him/her very valuable (not in a greedy meaning) for the one that constructed him/hem.

Dev let more access to content than WoT. In WoT there's some tanks you won't ever have the opportunity to get without gold. In warframe you can get all the warframes. All of them. But not at the same time.

I, too, don't like the limiting factor of slots (and that's someone that spent 250$ on that game that says it -__-). Gameplay wise I really don't like it. I only spent some plat for MAG. I want to build my warframes from scratch. I don't want to speed things up, I want to enjoy the game as long as I can. And I don't think I would spend money on "cosmetic" things. I really bought the grand master package to help devs fund that game.

Maybe the clans ? You need plat to create a clan and everyone can access it, even free players ?

But I still don't think that would be a good idea.

What would I spend money on ? Not on consumables. That's for sure. Cosmetics ? It's cool but who would spent a lot on that kind of thing ? Maybe with plat I could get an editor for the game and create content ? That I would buy it hands down.

EDIT sorry for the wall of text ... but I didn't write it like that. The forum seem to eat all my "return".

Edited April 13, 2013 by vieuxchat

[Story4]

The mount and blade demo won't let you get over level 5 (or 10 ? I don't remember). I understand you when you say that you don't want to re-grind after selling a warframe. So much time involved in constructing a warframe will make him/her very valuable (not in a greedy meaning) for the one that constructed him/hem. Dev let more access to content than WoT. In WoT there's some tanks you won't ever have the opportunity to get without gold. In warframe you can get all the warframes. All of them. But not at the same time. I, too, don't like the limiting factor of slots (and that's someone that spent 250$ on that game that says it -__-). Gameplay wise I really don't like it. I only spent some plat for MAG. I want to build my warframes from scratch. I don't want to speed things up, I want to enjoy the game as long as I can. And I don't think I would spend money on "cosmetic" things. I really bought the grand master package to help devs fund that game. Maybe the clans ? You need plat to create a clan and everyone can access it, even free players ? But I still don't think that would be a good idea. What would I spend money on ? Not on consumables. That's for sure. Cosmetics ? It's cool but who would spent a lot on that kind of thing ? Maybe with plat I could get an editor for the game and create content ? That I would buy it hands down. EDIT sorry for the wall of text ... but I didn't write it like that. The forum seem to eat all my "return".

An answer from the other topic, i think that you can agree with me, especially regarding the WoT thing:

 

For starters you can't purchase color packs, not that i'm asking to be able to purchase them, just stating a fact. Also, orokin reactors/catalysts are obtained from chance, not from actually playing the game.

 

Also, let's think about slots for a second. If there are 2 slots for warframes, even if i'm not being denied the helmets for those warframes that also are EXTREMELY hard to get without paying you also cannot get skins for the other warframes. Or better said, you can get them, but you won't be able to use them, so it will be like not having them anyway.

 

So even if, in theory, I'm not being denied anything other than slots, the fact that i can't use skins/helmets for weapons/warframes unless i purchase slots is pretty much like denying 66% of the game(considering that you purchased WF slots with your free plat) or more with increased content to non-paying customers. I don't see this percentage in any other game, not LoL, not WoT, not Dota2, not Blacklight Retribution etc.

 

"Cosmetics ? It's cool but who would spent a lot on that kind of thing ?" About ALL of the people who spend money on the games above. People WILL pay for vanity items, especially if you can't get them unless you pay. Look at TF2 hats, the greatest example.

[vieuxchat]

I just can't understand why people pay for things that don't change anything gameplaywise :)

I think that the actual number of slots are too low. But I don't think free player should get 10 slots for warframes. I dunno. Dev may have numbers about where people use their platinum.

Anyway, I can't agree with 66%. The game won't deny the warframes. You'll just have to chose with which ones you want to play. I understand it "feels" like you're denyed (spelling?) but you're not. You can, but for that you'll have to pay a price : with platinum or by sacrificing another warframe.

Maybe use the WoT system for crew ? Once you achieve rank 30 with a warframe and sell it you can buy it for half the price and get it at level 15 ? So the sacrifice would still be there (that would lead to some people using plat for them) but less painful.

[11.11.11]

 

Play Mount&Blade demo.

 

No thanks, I'd rather play warframe. 

 

There's no such thing as "true FtP game. Every title adds something new to the genera. It's fine not to like Warframe's model, but don't claim it somehow going against the 'rules' of free to play. 

[Story4]

I just can't understand why people pay for things that don't change anything gameplaywise :)

I think that the actual number of slots are too low. But I don't think free player should get 10 slots for warframes. I dunno. Dev may have numbers about where people use their platinum.

Anyway, I can't agree with 66%. The game won't deny the warframes. You'll just have to chose with which ones you want to play. I understand it "feels" like you're denyed (spelling?) but you're not. You can, but for that you'll have to pay a price : with platinum or by sacrificing another warframe.

Maybe use the WoT system for crew ? Once you achieve rank 30 with a warframe and sell it you can buy it for half the price and get it at level 15 ? So the sacrifice would still be there (that would lead to some people using plat for them) but less painful.

Hmm yeah if i didn't have to regrind and relevel a warframe, just to be able to purchase it with some credits (like 50.000) and gain it from level 15, i think i would be ok with that if there were 6 slots. Even if you don't agree with me, i do believe that it is like "restricting" a F2P player to only playing 33% of the game at a time, which none of the other games do.

 

Also the main reason this system is flawed and that i just realised is that you can make 3 accounts and have all the warframe and weapon slots you want. You'll only take longer to advance your first warframe but that will be it.