Aggh Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I care if they lied. I'm not the kind of person who would participate in a game feature where people trade their credibility for credits. View my OP and see if it says anything about grinding. This thread is about (honest) alliances fighting for who gets to set up their 0% tax rail, not whatever you think it's about. Could care less. It's people like you that are the biggest problem with how dark sectors are working out. This zero tax shenanigans and everybody getting angry about clans lying about taxes (when in fact that is an intended part of the system) is 99% of the reason why dark sector conflicts take so long to resolve. Lol. You said that no one wants to play dark sector conflicts. Which isn't true since they help alleviate credit grind, thus grind is perfectly on topic. Edited April 20, 2014 by Letter13 Let's avoid profanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speary Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Could care less. It's people like you that are the biggest problem with how dark sectors are working out. This zero tax shenanigans and everybody getting angry about clans lying about taxes (when in fact that is an intended part of the system) is 99% of the reason why dark sector conflicts take so long to resolve. Lol. You said that no one wants to play dark sector conflicts. Which isn't true since they help alleviate credit grind, thus grind is perfectly on topic. Put on your critical thinking hat please. Not even close. Thank you for derailing this thread, which was once about a valid issue but now has turned into Aggh's personal grinding guide/joke-a-thon. I really wish it was possible to disagree with you without being called "butt hurt". It's people like who make people like me want to avoid the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Lotta possible answers in this thread. I'm going with, "Trolling the entire playerbase." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TheShinigamiGod Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 out of curiosity what is the problem with rails that charge tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speary Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 out of curiosity what is the problem with rails that charge tax? None that I see, unless they advertised 0% to get picked. This thread's about the uselessness of free rails challenging free rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehbah Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Could care less. Really, this is all I have to quote to show just how valuable anything you have to add is. But still: why exactly should players not care about being lied to? Lying is something only filth does. And the system is simply terrible if it's actually intended to make people behave like S#&$stains. Well, as it is, it's terrible regardless of what it's meant to do since it's impossible to access dark sectors for more than a few hours (at best) before some other clown comes and slaps a rail in the way. I can't speak for everyone, but at least I have started playing for the occupant just because I'm sick of these clowns throwing their rails around when it just blocks people from getting to dark sectors. Especially when they do it when the current occupant takes zero tax and the challenger promises to do the same - what's the point? All they're doing is making those who want to access the dark sector like their alliance less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Really, this is all I have to quote to show just how valuable anything you have to add is. But still: why exactly should players not care about being lied to? Lying is something only filth does. And the system is simply terrible if it's actually intended to make people behave like S#&$stains. Well, as it is, it's terrible regardless of what it's meant to do since it's impossible to access dark sectors for more than a few hours (at best) before some other clown comes and slaps a rail in the way. I can't speak for everyone, but at least I have started playing for the occupant just because I'm sick of these clowns throwing their rails around when it just blocks people from getting to dark sectors. Especially when they do it when the current occupant takes zero tax and the challenger promises to do the same - what's the point? All they're doing is making those who want to access the dark sector like their alliance less. Because lying is part of the whole system. The devs actually have explicitly stated that they expect players to do as much. Go and watch the live streams on it. Or read the post on it from the design council: "Badlands" Clans and Alliances own parts of the Solar System. They construct a Solar Rail then deploy to an open (or contested) area allowing everyone to play... but they set taxes on missions run there. Monopolies rise and fall. Territorial battles break out for honor... and profit. • New locations are discovered in the Solar Map, with rarer resources, harder bosses, better loot... but they are unreachable . • A Clan (or Alliance) can collaborate on building Tower to connect it to the Solar Rail network. When it is build and deployed all Tenno can now run missions there. In essence, they've built a solar toll-highway. • All missions run there have taxes applied to them - resources and credits - this rate is set by the Clan who build the Tower. • Competing clans can build their own tower (maybe in secret) to challenge the area. When this happens, the area is locked into Tower Sabotage mode (against Orokin defenders, not PvP) - the Clans (and all players they convince to help) chose a side and try to destroy the opposing Tower (like a player-driven Invasion). • If a clan has built up Favor with a faction they can call them in - making their Tower more difficult to destroy as Grineer Elites are brought in to help. • Political intrigue grows, towers are built in secret, counter-attacks sprung, and rousing pleas for support play out over days of bloody conflict. People such as yourself are more concerned about what you can get out of the system than actually seeing it grow and gain some depth of interaction and functionality. Imo that's much much worse than someone lying to about a measely tax on in game currency. Edited April 20, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehbah Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 People such as yourself are more concerned about what you can get out of the system then actually see it grow and gain some depth of interaction and functionality. Imo that's much much worse than someone lying to about a measely tax on in game currency. So they created a system meant to make people be S#&$stains; that's fantastic. Not that I didn't know this; the point is that a system like that is trash. You know what? Yes, I only care about what normal players (like me) get out of the system. What you completely miss in your pretentious hopes for the future is that, for the average player, what they get out of the system is all that matters. Unfortunately, as it is now, the whole dark sector deal is borderline useless because you simply can't access it. And why should I care about anything else? I have absolutely no interest in whichever clown gets to have the bigged epeen. To someone who actually plays the game rather than caring about that trash, what we get out of the system is what matters. Warframe is not a job. It's not our job to fix whatever system the devs throw out. Warframe is a game and it's not our obligation to "put in the work" to make it things work properly, particularly not when that "work" happens to be grinding. The fact that you only care about the system from the perspective of the biggest alliances speaks volumes. People who want to take over the sectors just for the sake of epeen do, quite frankly, not matter. I don't care about them, nor should anyone else. Anything meant to cater to them at the expense of the masses of normal players is something that is severely flawed. You don't want to see it "grow and gain some depth of interaction and functionality" (did I mention how pretentious this sentence is?), you just want to see the clans with the biggest epeens mess around, without a care for the people who actually play the game. Want to see the system improve? Tell the devs how bad it is in its current form. Suggest how to improve it and make it actually useful for the average player. You can start by telling them that rewarding people for being the worst humanity has to offer is a really, really, really @(*()$ stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) So they created a system meant to make people be S#&$stains; that's fantastic. Not that I didn't know this; the point is that a system like that is trash. You know what? Yes, I only care about what normal players (like me) get out of the system. What you completely miss in your pretentious hopes for the future is that, for the average player, what they get out of the system is all that matters. Unfortunately, as it is now, the whole dark sector deal is borderline useless because you simply can't access it. And why should I care about anything else? I have absolutely no interest in whichever clown gets to have the bigged epeen. To someone who actually plays the game rather than caring about that trash, what we get out of the system is what matters. Warframe is not a job. It's not our job to fix whatever system the devs throw out. Warframe is a game and it's not our obligation to "put in the work" to make it things work properly, particularly not when that "work" happens to be grinding. The fact that you only care about the system from the perspective of the biggest alliances speaks volumes. People who want to take over the sectors just for the sake of epeen do, quite frankly, not matter. I don't care about them, nor should anyone else. Anything meant to cater to them at the expense of the masses of normal players is something that is severely flawed. You don't want to see it "grow and gain some depth of interaction and functionality" (did I mention how pretentious this sentence is?), you just want to see the clans with the biggest epeens mess around, without a care for the people who actually play the game. Want to see the system improve? Tell the devs how bad it is in its current form. Suggest how to improve it and make it actually useful for the average player. You can start by telling them that rewarding people for being the worst humanity has to offer is a really, really, really @(*()$ stupid idea. Systems like that are part of some of the most popular games in the world. Look at any survival game (ex dayz, rust) or Eve online. It's competition, it doesn't need to be fair, it just needs to be competitive. And at a more basic level, bluffing is an integral part of hundreds of games. The conflict system in dark sectors is no different, battle pay and taxes are a game of chicken that can and have determined the outcome of conflicts. This provides a depth of interaction that incentivizes Alliances to offer rewards that they might not otherwise think to offer. The ironic thing about your selfishness is that it's actually better served by lying clans. They're able to pay out better battle pay (and the fastest way to earn credits in the game) and end conflicts faster (thus having the dark sectors open more often). Thus you get more out of the system as a result of their lying. Lets say that we lived in a magical christmasland where every decided to not invade anyone and the dark sectors were always open with zero taxes. DE would be forced to slash the bonuses on them lest they devalue boosters and make it too easy to farm resources. The fact that they're not always up is what allows them to justify those bonuses. Maybe it's time you reconcile what you actually want out of the system with your strange appeal for sportsmanship in an end game system that is supposed to represent political intrigue and competition among the tenno? Oh and, you know, actually think through the potential consequences of what you've expressed as your desire for this system? Edited April 20, 2014 by Letter13 Locking per OP's request Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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