Ash Or Loki

[krisp]

 

I don't know why people think his ultimate/bladestorm is good.

Insta-teleport for 1000 armor-ignoring damage to multiple enemies in sight while being invulnerable and immune to control effects.

But surely spending 100 energy on something that does no damage and is absolutely worthless against infested is much better than that.

[Anelyn]

Is not only 1k, is more, but is variable (am getting 3.2k hits often from it).

Polarity slots are not bad on Ash, I like both Streamline and Focus. With the upcoming update with paragon resets and polarity slot change it will be no problem.

450 Energy on Loki with maxed Flow. I only use 100% Flow for 250, would probably get 350 max on Ash but I don't need it. Anyway, I can do 10 smoke screens with mod setup with 250 energy, I don't need that much vitality nor shields like a Loki does, which means I can go marathon / rush / quick rest etc w/e. Sure if you solo on Loki you won't need to take care much of HP / shields, but in Co-Op games when you're not the only one melee on boss which will trigger all those knockbacks, knockdowns, powerful melee attacks etc, what will you do? You can get hit in invisibility by them even if you are not targeted directly. Add some rollers for fun like in Kela's case, and is impossible to not get hit (and flop if you're a Loki).

Teleport is better than switch teleport in most situations I can think of. You can't teleport to a downed enemy as far as I can. You can't teleport to a dangerous elite and take him out before he gets a chance to shoot / charge at your group.

Decoy is good, however on high end planets gets destroyed instantly pmuch (especially with the new rate of fire / dps of grineers). By all means drop a decoy in a room with 40 grineers and tell me if it stays up for more than 1 second :)

Radial Disarm is good but is not even close to Bladestorm (especially since it hits cameras & rollers alike).

Would you like to make a case of you doing more damage with same weapon using invisibility compared to Ash using same weapon with smoke screen? I highly doubt the values will be different.

[KainSilencer]

I have both Loki and Ash and when I picked up Ash was rather disapointed with it. Now that I have some more experience with Ash I'd never switch back.
Somke screen - shorter than Invis but its long enough to get someone up, loose agro or deal enough dmg in melee to destroy most of annoying stuff.

Shuriken - no discussion here skill is useless and I hope it gets repleaced/reworked/whatever. Just get rid of it devs, please! If you want silent ranged killing move get Paris.

Teleport - I prefer it over Teleport Switch because sometimes I have to get to that nasty elite before he starts mowing down my teammates and switching places with him doesn't solve the problem. Same with porting to someone who needs pickup. 
Bladestorm - ok I have no idea what kind of drugs people are using that make them say it's useless. It kills. IT KILLS A LOT and it kills targets with tons of HP. Perfect for def missions where your mag used his ult to clear trash but you are still stuck with +6 Ancients. Well fear not Ash is here and he is going to clear them out/get them to silly low HP.

 

Loki is not bad warframe. Decoy and invis are great but teleport switch and radial disarm don't come even close to teleport and bladestrom terms of usefulness.
 

Edited April 13, 2013 by KainSilencer

[kaizoku222]

Loki is pretty much an upgrade to Ash without what is the worst "AoE kill everything" ult. Volts, Mags, Exs, and saryns are all better in either range, duration, cast time, or max number of targets. Shuriken is worthless right now, it is not accurate nor damaging enough to be worth using over your weapons in any situation. His invis is a direct downgrade to loki's, and his teleport serves nearly no purpose.

I want Ash to be good, but aside from health/armor he's a direct downgrade to loki in utility and abilities. If only Saryn had an invis, then we'd have a stealth frame who nearly their whole kit is useful.

[Anelyn]

I don't think you have even the slightest idea of how HUGE the range on bladestorm is. All that matters for bladestorm is the first target you pick when you activate the skill. Other pros of the skill: Can be cast while falling / jumping / sliding etc. You can't use most of the ultimate skills when you're not standing still.

To give you an example, the rooms with 3 bridges on 3 levels, I can bladestorm from one side of the room all way to the other end of the room, on same level or 2 levels above / beyond. I can clear the whole are of mobs before my team even calls the elevator.

[kaizoku222]

The cast range doesn't matter nearly as much as the AoE range. I play nothing but Ash and Loki, I know pretty well how they both function. Ash's range on the AoE part of his ult is smaller than most other frames AoE ults, because he sequentially slices enemies one by one before the skill times out it also has a lower kill ceiling that other frames ults that are true (not capped by time or number of mobs) AoE's. It's damage isn't bad and now that it has invulnerability it's one of the better ults for not putting you in a bad place But for killing power it's one of the worst, and for 25 (or less) energy I can just drop a decoy on Loki and use my weapons to kill just as many enemies as Ash can with his ult. And his ult is his *most* useful ability, and it is at best an average "AoE of death" ult.

[Ferriwind]

Ash is a bit more tankier, but the main differences are that Ash can Teleport to an enemy, has a wave clearing ult, but has much lower energy.

 

Loki has much more ultility and better stealth. Since he gets tons of energy, he can also save up energy and spam skills much more easily.

 

Something you might wanna keep in mind is that Ash can use his abilities on the run while all of Loki's abilities have a very short cast time.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Stygi

[Pappus]

See that is the point I made. If you are an efficient player and care about effectivity you will not care for ash's bladestorm. It takes so long to dispatch those 15 units and the only thing it dispatches are chargers/runners/leapers and small stuff like that, that you would kill in packs of 50 if you want by just charging up your melee weapon over and over again. Ancients don't really care about those 1k damage in the later stages.

 

as long as you play normal mission playthroughs it may seem relevant, however it will be beaten consistently by just weapondmg. For example 1k dmg is less then I do per charged gram hit on ancients ( it takes 1 second to charge and hits multiple opponents ) so that is why I think it pales.

 

Just like mags uber is not that superb as people think... might aswell just use excaliburs slash dash and yield the same result...