Why Update 7.7.3 Is Terrible.

[Onite]

  Now people will just quit out.

If you payed any attention to the video, the guy mentioned that quitting out will soon void all your progress. Including boss drops.

[Onite]

........

 

I'm not sure about your perception on credit. I don't even try to farm anything and I got 20k within a few hours (probably got close to 100k with Vor). As long as you explore the level and gather credit from the locker which yield 200-300 credit per locker in higher level, you shouldn't have any trouble with credit.

 

As for the mod drop rate, they're better than 7.7.2 since rare mods seemed to be dropped in a higher rate and some useful rares are demoted to uncommon pool.  

For the entirety i've played warframe, i've only ever found 2 penetration mods ever. Thats super duper @(*()$ rare considering that i've gotten hundreds if not a thousand mods. thats like, what? a 0.2% drop rate that i've experienced? Also 300 credits a locker? I just went and tried this to be sure i wasnt missing out on something crazy that would possibly turn my entire thread over with the credit issue. So i went to pluto and did a few missions. Lockers still only gave me about 20-150 credits if they even drop any. which is pennies to me. The only credits that are worth anything is the green ones. They're worth 100 each. They rarely drop. The best way to grind locker cash is to run the first few levels of mercury. The locker room tile is pretty common in those levels. And even then i'd only get sometimes 700 a full round mission +1k for finishing. 1.7 a mission is still less than boss grinding. Which is still really boring and the game shouldnt be limited to just grinding a boring boss hundreds of times. I dont understand why everyone wants to S#&$ on me for pointing out that the game -shouldnt- be steering towards making you have the behaviour to grind in an action third person shooter. Lets take the game that DE likes to bring up alot. PSO2. In PSO2, theres grinding, but its level grinding. Getting cash is all dependant on your loot you get in the game. Which you DONT have to compete for like locker cash in warframe. Instead, in pso2, you sell all the items you find. Except for warframe, the only loot is locker cash, blueprints, and mods. Which all are pretty uncommon drops given how many enemies you slaughter in each level. There needs to be a different way to get credits in warframe, either by crafting more things that you can sell, or by finding and selling more things than just mods, such as gear items. (IE:medkits, ammo boxes, cyphers.) I want the game to be more fun, yet everyone seems to think i'm attacking warframe by pointing out things that people may or may not suffer from. I dont even rush to get through levels, alot of the time i play solo so i can play at my own pace, and every time i think, "i should play online." i get punished by getting jack S#&$ and latency issues and people that sit in one room killing dudes for 4 or 5 minutes straight.

[neKroMancer]

Popularity doesnt always mean correct. I dont care how unpopular my opinion is, i'm not a sheep.

 

At least you're clearly mistaken about the first and the third point.

 

Of all the games I've played, there were none with two AFKer at once. At least one person got left a bit behind but that's understandable. Timed missions are rare but everyone knows that there is time limit on the top of the screen. At least two out of three/four do know about it. Moreover, if you don't go with your team and kill things together, how would you find any mods? 

 

The third point is a misunderstanding. Rare mods were demoted to uncommon pool to increase the uncommon pool and decrease rare pool. Most of them are frames' ability mod and elemental damage mod. 

Edited April 13, 2013 by neKroMancer

[Cytancy]

This is same basic forum trolling going on here.

[Venarge]

Serration mod doesnt help you with more slots? You mean the ability to do more damage is NOT helping? boy, do you even know what you are talking about?

 

Next you whine about is why rare mods are rare? Srly? Same question, do you even know what youre talking about?

1k per 20 mins? Bro, yesterday I made 9k in 25 minutes cause 3 x3k alterts.....

 

Babysit? Its a god damn coop game. But since you just dont go alone, I would guess your not awesome enough to survive alone...

 

Lets sum your "thread" up.

First you whine about not enough buff

Then you whine about the rare mods and that they are actually rare

After that, you whine about not enough money and that alerts dont give you enough

 

Better stop before making even a bigger fool out of yourself....

[neKroMancer]

For the entirety i've played warframe, i've only ever found 2 penetration mods ever. Thats super duper @(*()$ rare considering that i've gotten hundreds if not a thousand mods. thats like, what? a 0.2% drop rate that i've experienced? Also 300 credits a locker? I just went and tried this to be sure i wasnt missing out on something crazy that would possibly turn my entire thread over with the credit issue. So i went to pluto and did a few missions. Lockers still only gave me about 20-150 credits if they even drop any. which is pennies to me. The only credits that are worth anything is the green ones. They're worth 100 each. They rarely drop. The best way to grind locker cash is to run the first few levels of mercury. The locker room tile is pretty common in those levels. And even then i'd only get sometimes 700 a full round mission +1k for finishing. 1.7 a mission is still less than boss grinding. Which is still really boring and the game shouldnt be limited to just grinding a boring boss hundreds of times. I dont understand why everyone wants to S#&$ on me for pointing out that the game -shouldnt- be steering towards making you have the behaviour to grind in an action third person shooter. Lets take the game that DE likes to bring up alot. PSO2. In PSO2, theres grinding, but its level grinding. Getting cash is all dependant on your loot you get in the game. Which you DONT have to compete for like locker cash in warframe. Instead, in pso2, you sell all the items you find. Except for warframe, the only loot is locker cash, blueprints, and mods. Which all are pretty uncommon drops given how many enemies you slaughter in each level. There needs to be a different way to get credits in warframe, either by crafting more things that you can sell, or by finding and selling more things than just mods, such as gear items. (IE:medkits, ammo boxes, cyphers.) I want the game to be more fun, yet everyone seems to think i'm attacking warframe by pointing out things that people may or may not suffer from. I dont even rush to get through levels, alot of the time i play solo so i can play at my own pace, and every time i think, "i should play online." i get punished by getting jack S#&$ and latency issues and people that sit in one room killing dudes for 4 or 5 minutes straight.

 

Penetration mods are worst rare ever and you didn't mention 'other' rares that you collected during your plays. Bringing up one (or probably two) mod out of almost 70 pool (7.7.2) is a bad start to make an argument. I played for a few hours today and got a few rares already. RNG is RNG, it can be improved and 7.7.3 is the evidence that it could be.

 

As for credit issue, you and I simply have a different experience which caused by RNG. I didn't even attack you in my post, it's your perception. However, more loot from the mission isn't going to change the situation. Players will be going out hunting for locker/crate for loot anyway which is the same situation we're in now. Placing these medkit /cipher in the locker will just make players open the inventory and sell them instead of getting credit straight away. 

[Onite]

At least you're clearly mistaken about the first and the third point.

 

Of all the games I've played, there were none with two AFKer at once. At least one person got left a bit behind but that's understandable. Timed missions are rare but everyone knows that there is time limit on the top of the screen. At least two out of three/four do know about it. Moreover, if you don't go with your team and kill things together, how would you find any mods? 

 

The third point is a misunderstanding. Rare mods were demoted to uncommon pool to increase the uncommon pool and decrease rare pool. Most of them are frames' ability mod and elemental damage mod. 

You're the only person that actually bothered explaining that instead of giving me the finger and calling me a rusher. So thanks. The way the patch notes described that change made me think that it was a nerf to rare mod drop rates. Which to me meant "you get less money."

[Onite]

Penetration mods are worst rare ever and you didn't mention 'other' rares that you collected during your plays. Bringing up one (or probably two) mod out of almost 70 pool (7.7.2) is a bad start to make an argument. I played for a few hours today and got a few rares already. RNG is RNG, it can be improved and 7.7.3 is the evidence that it could be.

 

As for credit issue, you and I simply have a different experience which caused by RNG. I didn't even attack you in my post, it's your perception. However, more loot from the mission isn't going to change the situation. Players will be going out hunting for locker/crate for loot anyway which is the same situation we're in now. Placing these medkit /cipher in the locker will just make players open the inventory and sell them instead of getting credit straight away. 

Thats where i disagree. If they made it so you get more credits all around, along with things that can be sold or used, it would make the gameplay of missions change drastically from hunting lockers, to actually kicking back and enjoying challenging combat in the game. Right now its most often that you just play for fun until you reach a higher rank and realize, you need to upgrade the everloving S#&$ out of your mods in order to progress to more areas, which are identical and feel the exact same. The only motivation to kill things and move on later in the game, is to grind bosses for what little content is available in the game. And then when you get said content, theres almost nothing left to look forward to or work towards and combat becomes even more stale. I dont want this at all. I want the game to be like when i first started playing it, having a slight difficulty curve with newer enemies and slightly changing ships and as i progress while i'm fighting stuff. Instead that frame of entertainment dies very quickly and turns into "i need to start farming. For me, it was just running IO on jupiter over and over and over and over. And i would only log in once every other day to grind IO two times before i remembered how bitter that was and went back to player other games. And i know i'm not alone, all of my friends i managed to convince to play this game with me all had the same behaviour and all stopped playing after getting halfway through the second or third planet they chose to branch to.

[Onite]

Serration mod doesnt help you with more slots? You mean the ability to do more damage is NOT helping? boy, do you even know what you are talking about?

 

Next you whine about is why rare mods are rare? Srly? Same question, do you even know what youre talking about?

1k per 20 mins? Bro, yesterday I made 9k in 25 minutes cause 3 x3k alterts.....

 

Babysit? Its a god damn coop game. But since you just dont go alone, I would guess your not awesome enough to survive alone...

 

Lets sum your "thread" up.

First you whine about not enough buff

Then you whine about the rare mods and that they are actually rare

After that, you whine about not enough money and that alerts dont give you enough

 

Better stop before making even a bigger fool out of yourself....

First off, "bro",  The serration problem is its extremely expensive on mod capacity. Too expensive for me to physically equip it with that many ranks forit to be effective. If you dont understand that to be a problem where i am literally unable to drop it into my gun, then theres nothing else i can tell you.

 

As for babysitting people, having to play the role of navi and constantly tell them "HEY! this way!" when they're aimlessly running in the wrong direction of slowly going in circles fighting the same enemies that constantly spawn over and over, if i wanted to do that, i'd play defense.

 

And i have no problem with rare mods being rare. But making rare mods rare makes your income thats vital to progress your other mods further effectively slows down so much that its just boring to farm until you find them, because you're waiting on them to move on. Thats the point i was making, "bro"

[Venarge]

First off, "bro",  The serration problem is its extremely expensive on mod capacity. Too expensive for me to physically equip it with that many ranks forit to be effective. If you dont understand that to be a problem where i am literally unable to drop it into my gun, then theres nothing else i can tell you.

 

As for babysitting people, having to play the role of navi and constantly tell them "HEY! this way!" when they're aimlessly running in the wrong direction of slowly going in circles fighting the same enemies that constantly spawn over and over, if i wanted to do that, i'd play defense.

 

And i have no problem with rare mods being rare. But making rare mods rare makes your income thats vital to progress your other mods further effectively slows down so much that its just boring to farm until you find them, because you're waiting on them to move on. Thats the point i was making, "bro"

 

 

 

so its a problem because you cant actually use it because it costs too much? it seems you dont get that the whole system works on advantage over disadvantage. If you want serration, give away mag capacity or something else...

 

 

Play solo or with private if you cant handle people that are not doing the exact same thing as you

 

Like I said: Alert missions give you an enormous amount of credits.

[Onite]

so its a problem because you cant actually use it because it costs too much? it seems you dont get that the whole system works on advantage over disadvantage. If you want serration, give away mag capacity or something else...

 

 

Play solo or with private if you cant handle people that are not doing the exact same thing as you

 

Like I said: Alert missions give you an enormous amount of credits.

Alert missions only give a few hundred more. And alert missions arent that common. Sometimes the alert missions arent even worth doing because of the objective. Also the whole deal with rifle mods is they cost too much for how much they give. This is the entire reason they decided to buff rifle mods, but at the same time, i feel they did it the wrong way. I have 80% multishot for 13 points on my strun, while on my braton, i have 12 points for only 40%. Yet the rifle mod has more possible ranks. So for all the mods having more ranks to be as effective as my other guns, they need more points which theres a cap on. So having 60 points used up on my braton compared to only using up 48 on my strun, and yet my strun is running circles around my braton. Do you understand how this point i'm making yet? (PS. Most of the rifles dont even get polarity slots and their base stats are garbage.)

[Venarge]

Alert missions only give a few hundred more. And alert missions arent that common. Sometimes the alert missions arent even worth doing because of the objective. Also the whole deal with rifle mods is they cost too much for how much they give. This is the entire reason they decided to buff rifle mods, but at the same time, i feel they did it the wrong way. I have 80% multishot for 13 points on my strun, while on my braton, i have 12 points for only 40%. Yet the rifle mod has more possible ranks. So for all the mods having more ranks to be as effective as my other guns, they need more points which theres a cap on. So having 60 points used up on my braton compared to only using up 48 on my strun, and yet my strun is running circles around my braton. Do you understand how this point i'm making yet? (PS. Most of the rifles dont even get polarity slots and their base stats are garbage.)

 

the one i did a few minutes ago gave me 2700. I mean, yeah just a few hundreds more right....

My braton vandel is fine with it polarity slot....

Sure, they dont happen all the time. But you can still make your money

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[__Kanade__]

Why is staying in one room fighting what seems to be endless waves of enemies a bad thing? That's more xp, chance for some credits cause every little bit helps, and of course better chances for mods. I personally think speed running is bad, they ignore rooms full of enemies that could potentially drop rare mods, they skip every crate, canister, locker, and hidden areas for more resources, they're yeilding the least amount of xp and money while I explore the maps an get the most xp, credits, mods, and materials. Shared xp which means while their off killing an reaching the objective, I can still earn the xp while searching hidden areas of the maps.

 

I don't even bother setting waypoints for any mods I come across cause they'll just ignore them anyway and keep heading to the exit. Even though it's shared xp, all the extra affinity which averages 1K or so extra affinity for me. Their loss is my gain the way I see it.

 

On top of that, alerts yield twice the amount of credits you can find + whatever the bonus reward is, and they just speed run past all of it, again yielding the least amount of xp and money possible.

Edited April 13, 2013 by __Kanade__

[Onite]

the one i did a few minutes ago gave me 2700. I mean, yeah just a few hundreds more right....

My braton vandel is fine with it polarity slot....

Sure, they dont happen all the time. But you can still make your money

https://twitter.com/WarframeAlerts

 

As you can see from a record, not all of them are like that, some of them are on planets where the levels are in the 50s.

 

As for your braton vandal, that was a gun that was released for only a single weekend for platinum. Its not available to purchase in the game anymore. Not everyone is super rich and can afford founder items either, or just straight platinum purchases in general.

[Xtorma]

 

If you payed any attention to the video, the guy mentioned that quitting out will soon void all your progress. Including boss drops.

If it does not do so now, then for the purposes of this update, quitting will be the speedrunners method of choice until they do away with it. The future does not effect the now.

[Onite]

Why is staying in one room fighting what seems to be endless waves of enemies a bad thing? That's more xp, chance for some credits cause every little bit helps, and of course better chances for mods. I personally think speed running is bad, they ignore rooms full of enemies that could potentially drop rare mods, they skip every crate, canister, locker, and hidden areas for more resources, they're yeilding the least amount of xp and money while I explore the maps an get the most xp, credits, mods, and materials. Shared xp which means while their off killing an reaching the objective, I can still earn the xp while searching hidden areas of the maps.

 

I don't even bother setting waypoints for any mods I come across cause they'll just ignore them anyway and keep heading to the exit. Even though it's shared xp, all the extra affinity which averages 1K or so extra affinity for me. Their loss is my gain the way I see it.

 

On top of that, alerts yield twice the amount of credits you can find + whatever the bonus reward is, and they just speed run past all of it, again yielding the least amount of xp and money possible.

Sitting in one room is bad because i get nothing to gain from doing it. I'm maxed on everything except my melee weapon. Credits rarely drop from enemies, also xp is only shared if you're within proximity of the kill. While sitting in a room full of bad guys coming at you at your rank level is really fun to play against the first few times, it gets boring quick after the 62nd time when you're trying to make progress. As for grinding enemies, defense missions give you drops the fastest, and i do those alot. And its boring as hell to run the same mission a dozen or so times in a single sitting. It really feels like unenjoyable work just to get to the part of the game thats fun again, which is getting to more content that you havent had yet, or changing your weapons you already have in different ways. Which you cant do unless you have a steady stream of credits and mods.

[GrimJr]

Onite, on 13 Apr 2013 - 4:45 PM, said:

Alert missions only give a few hundred more. And alert missions arent that common. Sometimes the alert missions arent even worth doing because of the objective. Also the whole deal with rifle mods is they cost too much for how much they give. This is the entire reason they decided to buff rifle mods, but at the same time, i feel they did it the wrong way. I have 80% multishot for 13 points on my strun, while on my braton, i have 12 points for only 40%. Yet the rifle mod has more possible ranks. So for all the mods having more ranks to be as effective as my other guns, they need more points which theres a cap on. So having 60 points used up on my braton compared to only using up 48 on my strun, and yet my strun is running circles around my braton. Do you understand how this point i'm making yet? (PS. Most of the rifles dont even get polarity slots and their base stats are garbage.)

Then just use the shotgun if you don't like the rifles so much..

If you want to play in a faster pace than others play in Solo / Private idk what's keeping you to play Online there's no benefit playing with random strangers over the internet..

Credits aren't an issue as you get them as you play.. the problem with you however is that your rushing to get the things you want meaning you want credits fast and you want them now..

[TheNax]

Got around 40 hours of playtime, 3 lvl 30 frames, lvl 30 weapons and blah blah - Haven't seen any AFK'ers, but seen countless of rushers, and playing as frost they are the most annoying thing ever. There is no way i can ever keep up with volt using his speed ability, or any of the other fast frames for that matter. No, im not "fighting endlessly" in the same room, im moving towards the extraction. If the enemy is grineer, i might make it (depending the size of the map ofc) But vs. corpus and infested, i might aswell just DC. Infested will catch up and stagger me, forcing me to kill em, corpus have their nitty little cameras, that's activated when i get to the door, and the rushers not caring anything for shooting em.

 

Very happy they made a change to the extraction thing, hopefully it will prevent rushers. 

 

So you don't want to grind? What else were you gonna do tbh? the "end game" is farming mats / credits to build new items, or get rare items to build. 

 

TL;DR - Stop crying rusher, don't like farming - play something else.

[Onite]

Then just use the shotgun if you don't like the rifles so much..

If you want to play in a faster pace than others play in Solo / Private idk what's keeping you to play Online there's no benefit playing with random strangers over the internet..

Credits aren't an issue as you get them as you play.. the problem with you however is that your rushing to get the things you want meaning you want credits fast and you want them now..

Absolutely not. I like having a wide arsenal of weapons and just throwing something away because its broken instead of fixing it is a pathetic solution and further limits your options. If you read my other posts, i usually do play solo and when i play with other people, they just get lost often or drag the mission out way longer than it should be.

 

As for just wanting a S#&$load of credits here and now, no. I want to be able to play the game and collect credits while doing it. But when the rate of which you acquire credits isnt to the same pace that everything else in the game moves at, that doesnt seem right. Especially credits being the blood of progression in the game.

[Onite]

Got around 40 hours of playtime, 3 lvl 30 frames, lvl 30 weapons and blah blah - Haven't seen any AFK'ers, but seen countless of rushers, and playing as frost they are the most annoying thing ever. There is no way i can ever keep up with volt using his speed ability, or any of the other fast frames for that matter. No, im not "fighting endlessly" in the same room, im moving towards the extraction. If the enemy is grineer, i might make it (depending the size of the map ofc) But vs. corpus and infested, i might aswell just DC. Infested will catch up and stagger me, forcing me to kill em, corpus have their nitty little cameras, that's activated when i get to the door, and the rushers not caring anything for shooting em.

 

Very happy they made a change to the extraction thing, hopefully it will prevent rushers. 

 

So you don't want to grind? What else were you gonna do tbh? the "end game" is farming mats / credits to build new items, or get rare items to build. 

 

TL;DR - Stop crying rusher, don't like farming - play something else.

This is exactly the trash i'm talking about. The game doesnt have to be like this at all. You've already made up your mind that this game is set to just be a game where you just grind endlessly forever for very little content, and you'd settle for that. Telling other people to settle for it or leave is complete bullS#&$, especially when the developers themselves said that nothing is set in stone and that they want to hear from the community and shape the game to be something decent. You're basically giving the middle finger to the developer's ideas and their project as well.

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

For the entirety i've played warframe, i've only ever found 2 penetration mods ever. Thats super duper @(*()$ rare considering that i've gotten hundreds if not a thousand mods. thats like, what? a 0.2% drop rate that i've experienced? Also 300 credits a locker? I just went and tried this to be sure i wasnt missing out on something crazy that would possibly turn my entire thread over with the credit issue. So i went to pluto and did a few missions. Lockers still only gave me about 20-150 credits if they even drop any. which is pennies to me. The only credits that are worth anything is the green ones. They're worth 100 each. They rarely drop. The best way to grind locker cash is to run the first few levels of mercury. The locker room tile is pretty common in those levels. And even then i'd only get sometimes 700 a full round mission +1k for finishing. 1.7 a mission is still less than boss grinding. Which is still really boring and the game shouldnt be limited to just grinding a boring boss hundreds of times. I dont understand why everyone wants to S#&$ on me for pointing out that the game -shouldnt- be steering towards making you have the behaviour to grind in an action third person shooter. Lets take the game that DE likes to bring up alot. PSO2. In PSO2, theres grinding, but its level grinding. Getting cash is all dependant on your loot you get in the game. Which you DONT have to compete for like locker cash in warframe. Instead, in pso2, you sell all the items you find. Except for warframe, the only loot is locker cash, blueprints, and mods. Which all are pretty uncommon drops given how many enemies you slaughter in each level. There needs to be a different way to get credits in warframe, either by crafting more things that you can sell, or by finding and selling more things than just mods, such as gear items. (IE:medkits, ammo boxes, cyphers.) I want the game to be more fun, yet everyone seems to think i'm attacking warframe by pointing out things that people may or may not suffer from. I dont even rush to get through levels, alot of the time i play solo so i can play at my own pace, and every time i think, "i should play online." i get punished by getting jack S#&$ and latency issues and people that sit in one room killing dudes for 4 or 5 minutes straight.

 

Quick question....Do you actually enjoy playing the game?

 

I only ask because as a PvE game the whole point is to "grind" through missions filled with AI controlled baddies..that's it, that's the game. If you find this tedious then in all likelihood you are playing the wrong game, and I don't mean that nastily. 

Now I understand that you may have a specific goal in mind, be it building a new warframe/ weapon whatever, and that you think it's taking too long to obtain what you require, but that is entirely a patience issue on your part. If you actually enjoyed the game itself you wouldn't care that you had to "grind" because that's the fun part.

 

If DE made it super easy/ fast to grind all the warframes and weapons...what then? Would you still play the game that you seem to dislike playing so much, or would you think " ok, goal achieved, nothing more to do here I'm off"? Not a good idea on DE's part to make the game so quick to "complete" (for want of a better word) that people get bored and quit while waiting for the next content update.

 

I personally don't care a damn how long it takes to grind something, because I actually enjoy the game, not just getting stuff, but actively playing the game. It's why I play solo most of the time, because I want to explore,/ shoot things/ practice wall-running and other "tricks" .....and should mention I make a hell of a lot more than 1k a mission doing this. 

 

Again, I'm not trying to be nasty or unpleasant, I just don't understand what motivates people to play a game which , on the surface at least, they don't seem to actually enjoy playing. Obviously I'm missing something here, and am curious as to what.

[Onite]

Quick question....Do you actually enjoy playing the game?

 

I only ask because as a PvE game the whole point is to "grind" through missions filled with AI controlled baddies..that's it, that's the game. If you find this tedious then in all likelihood you are playing the wrong game, and I don't mean that nastily. 

Now I understand that you may have a specific goal in mind, be it building a new warframe/ weapon whatever, and that you think it's taking too long to obtain what you require, but that is entirely a patience issue on your part. If you actually enjoyed the game itself you wouldn't care that you had to "grind" because that's the fun part.

 

If DE made it super easy/ fast to grind all the warframes and weapons...what then? Would you still play the game that you seem to dislike playing so much, or would you think " ok, goal achieved, nothing more to do here I'm off"? Not a good idea on DE's part to make the game so quick to "complete" (for want of a better word) that people get bored and quit while waiting for the next content update.

 

I personally don't care a damn how long it takes to grind something, because I actually enjoy the game, not just getting stuff, but actively playing the game. It's why I play solo most of the time, because I want to explore,/ shoot things/ practice wall-running and other "tricks" .....and should mention I make a hell of a lot more than 1k a mission doing this. 

 

Again, I'm not trying to be nasty or unpleasant, I just don't understand what motivates people to play a game which , on the surface at least, they don't seem to actually enjoy playing. Obviously I'm missing something here, and am curious as to what.

The problem isnt having to grind to get ahead. Its that the grind itself is more boring than it should be and circumvents the entire game. The game shouldnt revolve around a single mission. Lets take an mmorpg for example. The traditional point and click, like warcraft, cause everyone has played one of those. The entire game is one long grind. But as you grind through the entire game, you're constantly going through all the content of the game. If i were to make an analogy to a game like world of warcraft to warframe, the gameplay of warframe is basically like if you just sat outside the first town of the game killing the same 5 mobs over and over because they're also the only enemies in the game that are everywhere you go and yet they yield the same exp, gold and loot as the rest of the same mobs in the game, except that they're easier. So instead of questing in one area and then moving to the next, you're just in that one spot. Forever. Grinding level 1 mobs even though you're level 60. Because they still drop the same amount of gold as everything else in the game and you need a lot of it in order to fight the same mobs that give the same gold that are harder. But theres really no incentive to even do that because they're the same. And you wish that the game scaled in both difficulty and drop rate. Because this would be fun and be the same as when you first played the game at level 1 and fought those level 1 mobs for the first time. Hence normal mmorpg progression. Does this make sense?

Edited April 13, 2013 by Onite

[neKroMancer]

We're back to basic design of the game :To grind or not to grind.

Warframe is a mixed TPS/RPG without any competitive element at the moment. The game is grind-based by default until UD8 make any substantial difference to the game with clan vs clan. Even then it's still going to be grind-based competition or at best, PvPvE competition.

Basically, if you don't enjoy grinding for better mod/weapon/different frames, this game won't satisfy you at the moment.

[mKta]

So i was initially stoked when i first watched that hour long video they did on wednesday, and even happier to be patching today. And then when i read the patch notes, my face slowly went from a warm smile to an unhappy

"are !@#$ing you kidding me?" This patch was one step forward and two steps back.

 

Why?

I'll go through the main highlights of the patch notes to break it down:

 

"Half of the active players in a squad must reach extraction before extraction timer starts"

   While the intention of this implementation was to punish rushers and encourage people to move as a team, this isnt always the case when you reach the finish. Often times you get really lazy people that join a game and AFK, or even people who sit there fighting the same room's worth of enemies. Forever. Theres also missions where theres a timer, so having someone rush is actually a good idea.

 

"Buffed Rifle mods to bring them closer to Pistol and Shotgun mods"

    I logged in to look at this for my max level potato'd Braton only to find that besides crit boosts, all the mod values were exactly the same. Except that serration has many many more upgrade slots. Which doesnt help me at all. All my other mods are already eating up so many of my mod slots that i only have 3 points left for mod capacy out of 60. So the already low benefits of other max mods prevent me from taking "advantage" of serration's damage possibility. Not to mention that mod rank does NOT scale to the number of possible ranks, so much as a static number set to all mods. So to reach the full potential of serration being pretty good, i have to grind an insane amount of grinding not just for the mods, but for the amount of cash as well to afford your compound grinding. This isnt fun. This just isnt something people want to do.

 

 

"Shifting mod rarity to balance the the distribution better (too many rares before)."

   If i'm understanding this right, they made it so rare mods are now, much much more rare. Which is terrible. This is probably the biggest flaw with this patch because it further digs the issue of obtaining credits into a very linear gameplay. Lets be honest, no one's main source of money in the game comes from doing missions. 1k per 15-20 minutes is laughable when everything you want in the game can easily cost you 30-50k. And even maintaining and upgrading said items will cost you 4-5k per rank, per mod. And then theres also crafting as well, which is usually 15-20k per print. (excluding warframes which alltogether can cost you a whopping -one hundred and thirty thousand credits.-)

Selling rare mods was the way to go. 1k per mod. Which only dropped for me about once every 6-7 common mods. And then uncommons were about every 3-4 common mods apart. Selling all your mods only yields you so much money, sell like 6 commons and 2 rares is alot, and that only gets you 3200 credits. And you'll never find that at once unless you're damn lucky in a single game.

 

So basically this patch is telling me, in order to make money to grind my mods to further my character progression, i need to babysit my teammates while at the same time, never finding any rare mods, only to get 1k at the end of the mission, which rinse and repeat can take me anywhere from 12-15 hours of gameplay of doing this just to afford a weapon i want in the game. And if i dont want to babysit, the only other feasable option is to grind the first or second boss in the game for blueprints to sell for about 3.5k a mission by yourself solo. Thats a much better turn rate than babysitting for 1k. But who the hell wants to log into warframe to grind the same boring mission 10-15 times in a row by yourself on an online game? This is where the linear part kicks in, in order to gain any momentum in progress throughout warframe, you need ALOT of credits, and ALOT of mods to effectively rank them up. And all three of these highlights i pointed out is this trifecta kick in your fun nuts as a huge demotivator to play warframe.

 

I really like this game and it has so much potential. I hate to see patches like this where it really wrings out the fun you can have in the game.

 

 

"Half of the active players in a squad must reach extraction before extraction timer starts"

 

Personally i like this idea. Maybe game I got mad because some "genius pro player" rushed kill the boss then got to extraction because we was fighting out way through the map. Lost the boss loot and mods.

 

 

 

"Buffed Rifle mods to bring them closer to Pistol and Shotgun mods"

 

This one i kinda don't care. Though I like the changes. Damage booster (like elemental ones)  were already on the same level as the pistol ones or whatever.

 

 

 

"Shifting mod rarity to balance the the distribution better (too many rares before)."

   If i'm understanding this right, they made it so rare mods are now, much much more rare. Which is terrible

 

You understood that wrong. Before there was too many mods rated as "Rare". Now many of them were moved to "Uncommon". So You will find more awesome mods from now on.

 

 

Before you start your rage flame on forums try to think and read everything.

Edited April 13, 2013 by mKta

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

The problem isnt having to grind to get ahead. Its that the grind itself is more boring than it should be and circumvents the entire game. The game shouldnt revolve around a single mission. Lets take an mmorpg for example. The traditional point and click, like warcraft, cause everyone has played one of those. The entire game is one long grind. But as you grind through the entire game, you're constantly going through all the content of the game. If i were to make an analogy to a game like world of warcraft to warframe, the gameplay of warframe is basically like if you just sat outside the first town of the game killing the same 5 mobs over and over because they're also the only enemies in the game that are everywhere you go and yet they yield the same exp, gold and loot as the rest of the same mobs in the game, except that they're easier. So instead of questing in one area and then moving to the next, you're just in that one spot. Forever. Grinding level 1 mobs even though you're level 60. Because they still drop the same amount of gold as everything else in the game and you need a lot of it in order to fight the same mobs that give the same gold that are harder. But theres really no incentive to even do that because they're the same. And you wish that the game scaled in both difficulty and drop rate. Because this would be fun and be the same as when you first played the game at level 1 and fought those level 1 mobs for the first time. Hence normal mmorpg progression. Does this make sense?

 

It would make sense if you were primarily focused on making the game noticeably harder at higher levels, that's not the impression I got originally from what you were saying ( apologies if I misunderstood).

The telling point for me though is the part " ...The grind itself is more boring than it should be.." That would seem to me to say that you don't like the game, because the game is the grind.

 

Now you have (no doubt) progressed further than I have in the game, so it may well be that later stages are simply not challenging enough for you, fair enough, that's a balancing issue related to difficulty which has little to do with drop rates or credit gain, because surely if the game was challenging/ interesting to you then the "grind" itself becomes unnoticeable due to the fact you're actually having fun.

 

Certainly if the only challenge left to you is how quickly you can gain credit because none of the game content is of interest (lack of challenge/ variety etc.) then this is a problem.. maybe you're just too good for this game ;) 

 

Part of the issue is the term "grind" and what it means to people. In warframe "playing" and "grinding" are the same thing. Which term you use depends entirely on your point of view as to how much fun/ enjoyment you get out of the game. If you're having fun it's "playing", if you are at the point where the game no longer satisfies your requirement for fun it's "grinding". This is my take obviously, not a hard and fast definition, and is colored by the fact that in most of the games I played PvE was simply the means to provide the gear required to PvP, subsequently the PvE was boring and a "grind". Warframe is not the same and the day I do consider it a "grind" to play is the day I'll take my business elsewhere because I'll no longer have any reason to play. 

 

I suppose my lack of understanding comes from the fact that you seem to be saying that, in order to get a new item (whatever it may be) you have to spend a lot of time doing something you don't enjoy. However the sole aim of getting that new item is so that you can continue to do the stuff you didn't enjoy doing to get it.....albeit in a slightly different way. Mind=Blown

 

Peace.