Is This Game Pay To Win?

[Cakes]

I think they went abit overboard on the paying side of the game. Also the time consumption. For a free 'casual' player you would need to dedicate atleast 4 days to aquire a new warframe with a cost of roughly 120k. On the other hand you could pay around 10 pound to buy a warframe instantly. This is a pay to win game. Im stuck in the hard grind and its taking a very long time. 

 

I suggest they either reduce the combine blueprints cost and time, or do something i dont know. But they need to change something with the credit system. 

 

I know i know you can farm that mercury mission for the chronus blueprint, been there done that about 20 times. If thats what this game all about then i may aswell stop playing now.

 

Also the people who do pay to get platinum are higher level, so they have all the gear then they whine about the game being to easy. I think the game is quite challenging at my current level and i can see it posing a threat in later levels aswell.

Most of us platinum buyers use the platinum strictly for weapon slots, warframe slots, and the occasional color palette or skin. Ranking up more weapons/warframes results in a higher level, not the actual purchasing of weapons and warframes with platinum. Personally, I farmed all the blueprints and materials while waiting the entire foundry processing time for every piece of gear in the game

Requiring time commitment to get the gear you want != pay to win. Only taking cash payments to get the gear you want = pay to win.

[KyleDoagan]

ok Grand Master, I can leave. Because I do not like the way this forum and people like you run around strutting your stuff. The op made a post and it is quite a big issue. Just because you can afford to buy everything with real money does not mean everyone else can. Its people like you who are ruining this game. I'm glad to be rid of it, because with you and others like you behind the wheel, it will turn into a train wreck.

 

I did love this game until snobs like that 'grand master' who paid 400 dollars came onto this and starting thinking 'i'm the big man'.

 

I usually don't get into this forum discussion but wow. 

 

Thanks again, i agree with the op that the credit system needs a rework. And until thats done, i will not be playing the game.

 

I always like ways of improving the game, as i'm beta testing this game. But as stated above, people like you make it impossible to get a view point across.

Edited April 13, 2013 by KyleDoagan

[Venarge]

ok Grand Master, I can leave. Because I do not like the way this forum and people like you run around strutting your stuff. The op made a post and it is quite a big issue. Just because you can afford to buy everything with real money does not mean everyone else can. Its people like you who are ruining this game. I'm glad to be rid of it, because with you and others like you behind the wheel, it will turn into a train wreck.

 

I did love this game until snobs like that 'grand master' who paid 400 dollars came onto this and starting thinking 'i'm the big man'.

 

I usually don't get into this forum discussion but wow. 

 

Thanks again, i agree with the op that the credit system needs a rework. And until thats done, i will not be playing the game.

 

Srry, the leave wasnt meant for you. Had the quote of someone else still in here....

[Xtorma]

This game is about as far from pay to win as you can get and still have a cash shop.

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

I think they went abit overboard on the paying side of the game. Also the time consumption. For a free 'casual' player you would need to dedicate atleast 4 days to aquire a new warframe with a cost of roughly 120k. On the other hand you could pay around 10 pound to buy a warframe instantly. This is a pay to win game. Im stuck in the hard grind and its taking a very long time. 

 

 

I think we must have different definitions of what "pay to win" actually means.

 

If you buy plat you are simply paying to save time. You don't need a new warframe to "win"...there is no "win". You can go all the way through this game and back again with just about any Warframe, some may indeed be better at solo'ing particular missions, but as far as co-op goes any frame will do it.

 

"pay to win" is really a term that in most cases only really applies to PvP games, where spending cash gives you an almost insurmountable advantage over those that don't. Warframe doesn't work this way. If it did I wouldn't waste my time with it...and I have bought plat, but I don't play pay to win games out of principle.

 

For the game to survive and grow someone has to buy plat, the people who do are the ones that are not only supporting DE, but supporting every player who doesn't. If it was ridiculously easy to get all the stuff without paying very few people would bother= DE go out of business and Warframe dies an early death...not a good outcome if you enjoy the game.

 

As it stands pretty much everything of any value is obtainable through in-game means, sure it takes some time.If that time is too long for you why not buy some plat, save some time, and support the future of Warframe? Win-Win :)

[Venarge]

This game is about as far from pay to win as you can get and still have a cash shop.

 

Yep =)

[Dasmir]

This game is pay to skip grind.

 

This.

[Dasmir]

This game is pay to win, of course. Explain me how can I get Orokin catalysts for my weapons without paying money. By farming alerts? No thanks, 'cause I'm a casual gamer. So it's my fault if I don't give enough time to the game, of course. While if you pay, you skip the time intensive part of the game. In my case, yes, it's pay to win.

 

15 posts.

 

Also i already have like 5 WARFRAME catalyst with only loging rewards.

[KyleDoagan]

Sorry i read what i wrote, and i come across more aggressive than intended. 

Im not talking about buying plat, (i would if i had the money, but i dont) im just saying that the prices for blueprints and stuff are quite expensive. 

Im currently making saryn because she/he looks amazing, However, i saved up my 35k and i was thinking surely this isnt it. It wasnt it because i had another 95k to save up and 4 days time on top of that grind time to build it. 

Now, when you look at the ways to aquire credits. There are very limited options available. 

Chronus blueprint blah blah blah. I dont want to spend my time on warframe running through a level 3-5 mission, skipping the mobs just to kill the boss. Do this about 20 times, hurrah. But why does this game have to be about that? I get more credits from doing that silly little mission over and over again, than a progress mission on sedna or pluto. 

Then you have the weapon costs because for the bigger and better weapons you need blueprints, which again cost around 15k per blueprint and then 12 hours to complete. (thats not so bad)

On top of all this you have the fusion costs. 

 

All in all i feel like im not given the chance to actually enjoy the game because i am forever farming that boring mission at the start to get credits and then i have to wait 12 hours to use what i've been working towards. 

 

I understand that they want to use real time, and tbh i kind of agree with that. Maybe reduce the time to around 2 hours or something? I dont have a week to spend farming just to get one warframe blueprint.

 

I guess im just getting fed up with the rinse and repeat strategy. If say the first time you do a progress mission you get an increased amount? BECAUSE IT IS A PROGRESS MISSION, you should be rewarded as such and then the credits earned reduce after completion.

 

i dont know, i kinda need someone to reply with a 'i see your point however' type response. All the people who are replying are just people who are bought plat. ( no offence )

[Story4]

Only thing this game needs is craftable slots and orokin ractors, 100.000 blueprint each and 50.000 craft cost. If this was done it would have been perfect, right now IMO it is a little pay 2 win because you can buy potatoes only with plat which are extremely hard to acquire otherwise and also the fact that you can't have all the weapons/warframes unless you pay with platinum for slots.

 

If every warframe cost 100.000 the bp and 50.000 to craft then it would be 1.800.000 creds, extremely hard to get and it would balance the game for F2P players.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Story4

[Venarge]

Sorry i read what i wrote, and i come across more aggressive than intended. 

Im not talking about buying plat, (i would if i had the money, but i dont) im just saying that the prices for blueprints and stuff are quite expensive. 

Im currently making saryn because she/he looks amazing, However, i saved up my 35k and i was thinking surely this isnt it. It wasnt it because i had another 95k to save up and 4 days time on top of that grind time to build it. 

Now, when you look at the ways to aquire credits. There are very limited options available. 

Chronus blueprint blah blah blah. I dont want to spend my time on warframe running through a level 3-5 mission, skipping the mobs just to kill the boss. Do this about 20 times, hurrah. But why does this game have to be about that? I get more credits from doing that silly little mission over and over again, than a progress mission on sedna or pluto. 

Then you have the weapon costs because for the bigger and better weapons you need blueprints, which again cost around 15k per blueprint and then 12 hours to complete. (thats not so bad)

On top of all this you have the fusion costs. 

 

All in all i feel like im not given the chance to actually enjoy the game because i am forever farming that boring mission at the start to get credits and then i have to wait 12 hours to use what i've been working towards. 

 

I understand that they want to use real time, and tbh i kind of agree with that. Maybe reduce the time to around 2 hours or something? I dont have a week to spend farming just to get one warframe blueprint.

 

I guess im just getting fed up with the rinse and repeat strategy. If say the first time you do a progress mission you get an increased amount? BECAUSE IT IS A PROGRESS MISSION, you should be rewarded as such and then the credits earned reduce after completion.

 

i dont know, i kinda need someone to reply with a 'i see your point however' type response. All the people who are replying are just people who are bought plat. ( no offence )

 

its not against you. People like me see threads about pay2win from time to time. And some times, we are just annoyed by those threads and answers arent that friendly, thats not ok.

All in all, I really understand your view. Its hard to grind so long for new stuff and the potatoes dont drop very often. Lets just see what they do next =) The devs made this game very player friendly in my opinion. of course there are one or two flaws, people like me, who already have enough potatoes from alert missions, dont see ^^

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

Sorry i read what i wrote, and i come across more aggressive than intended. 

Im not talking about buying plat, (i would if i had the money, but i dont) im just saying that the prices for blueprints and stuff are quite expensive. 

Im currently making saryn because she/he looks amazing, However, i saved up my 35k and i was thinking surely this isnt it. It wasnt it because i had another 95k to save up and 4 days time on top of that grind time to build it. 

Now, when you look at the ways to aquire credits. There are very limited options available. 

Chronus blueprint blah blah blah. I dont want to spend my time on warframe running through a level 3-5 mission, skipping the mobs just to kill the boss. Do this about 20 times, hurrah. But why does this game have to be about that? I get more credits from doing that silly little mission over and over again, than a progress mission on sedna or pluto. 

Then you have the weapon costs because for the bigger and better weapons you need blueprints, which again cost around 15k per blueprint and then 12 hours to complete. (thats not so bad)

On top of all this you have the fusion costs. 

 

All in all i feel like im not given the chance to actually enjoy the game because i am forever farming that boring mission at the start to get credits and then i have to wait 12 hours to use what i've been working towards. 

 

I understand that they want to use real time, and tbh i kind of agree with that. Maybe reduce the time to around 2 hours or something? I dont have a week to spend farming just to get one warframe blueprint.

 

I guess im just getting fed up with the rinse and repeat strategy. If say the first time you do a progress mission you get an increased amount? BECAUSE IT IS A PROGRESS MISSION, you should be rewarded as such and then the credits earned reduce after completion.

 

i dont know, i kinda need someone to reply with a 'i see your point however' type response. All the people who are replying are just people who are bought plat. ( no offence )

Ok I'll bite ;)

 

I do see your point, I just disagree with it.

 

My (limited) plat purchase aside. I also have several bp's for which I require mats+credit. I will be collecting these mats and credit through playing the game, same as you. 

However...As I've said in other threads (sorry for the whole "broken record" thing) this game is only a "grind" if you perceive it that way. I find it fun, hence I'm in no great rush to build the stuff I have bp's for. I don't run the same mission over and over for maximum credit efficiency, I just play the game the way I enjoy. As and when I have what I need I'll build something.

It's all about patience and mind-set to be honest. Play the game, have fun, the credits and mats. will turn up sooner or later. 

[Dasmir]

Only thing this game needs is craftable slots and orokin ractors, 100.000 blueprint each and 50.000 craft cost. If this was done it would have been perfect, right now IMO it is a little pay 2 win because you can buy potatoes only with plat which are extremely hard to acquire otherwise and also the fact that you can't have all the weapons/warframes unless you pay with platinum for slots.

 

If every warframe cost 100.000 the bp and 50.000 to craft then it would be 1.800.000 creds, extremely hard to get and it would balance the game for F2P players.

 

You can get everything with grinding so no. Theres no TRUE pay2win system yet

[Venarge]

Only thing this game needs is craftable slots and orokin ractors, 100.000 blueprint each and 50.000 craft cost. If this was done it would have been perfect, right now IMO it is a little pay 2 win because you can buy potatoes only with plat which are extremely hard to acquire otherwise and also the fact that you can't have all the weapons/warframes unless you pay with platinum for slots.

 

If every warframe cost 100.000 the bp and 50.000 to craft then it would be 1.800.000 creds, extremely hard to get and it would balance the game for F2P players.

 

 

make the potatoe 1.5 million.

[Story4]

You can get everything with grinding so no. Theres no TRUE pay2win system yet

 

Really? can you get slots by grinding? no. Did you even understand my post? I don't think so.

And wether you like it or not potatos ARE power and since unless your extremely lucky to get one at the login screen or through an alert mission you can't get one and NONE of these consist in grinding! They are purely based on luck! IF a bp cost 100.000 and components+25000 or 50000 to craft THAT would be grinding!

Edited April 13, 2013 by Story4

[Strac_CRO]

you can't have pay2win in SOLO or COOP, only in PvP

[Story4]

you can't have pay2win in SOLO or COOP, only in PvP

If someone can't win in a solo on a planet without having a weapon or warframe supercharged and someone with them can then that is pretty much pay2win. Not against other players, but against AI, but it still is pay2win.

 

If pay to win bothers you so much then pay4powah. Is this ok?

[Venarge]

If someone can't win in a solo on a planet without having a weapon or warframe supercharged and someone with them can then that is pretty much pay2win. Not against other players, but against AI, but it still is pay2win.

 

If pay to win bothers you so much then pay4powah. Is this ok?

 

if someone cant win in solo, he might be bad as well. I go without charge with my excal and do fine....

[Story4]

if someone cant win in solo, he might be bad as well. I go without charge with my excal and do fine....

You did not get my point... Same player, same weapons, same warframes, there are planets where if you don't have a supercharged warframe or especially a supercharged weapon you will lose.

[Venarge]

You did not get my point... Same player, same weapons, same warframes, there are planets where if you don't have a supercharged warframe or especially a supercharged weapon you will lose.

 

 

Thats not a fact. Its an opinion....

[FluffyBunnySlippers]

If someone can't win in a solo on a planet without having a weapon or warframe supercharged and someone with them can then that is pretty much pay2win. Not against other players, but against AI, but it still is pay2win.

 

If pay to win bothers you so much then pay4powah. Is this ok?

One simple question..

 

If every item (including pots.) and slots were craftable, and no-one had to pay for anything at all, how long before DE either..

1) Go out of business, or..

2) Start putting a ton of ads into the game to try and stay afloat?

 

I know this is a free to play game...but let's face it Nothing in life is free, someone, somewhere always has to pay..DE have bills to pay, as the game grows those bills are going to grow with it.  You can play for free, but you can't have everything at the same time for free. Personally I don't see any issue with that.

Pots. may be very hard to get, yes...some luck is involved, yes....but they can be got free. Slots may be a core part of the game, but they are not an absolute requirement in order to max level several frames allowing for full-power play at all levels. 

 

Give DE a break, they provide a hell of a lot for nothing, kudos to them. But they are still a business and they have to make money. If that means they have to draw a line somewhere and say " this is as far as we can go just now" then that's a decision they will make based on their business requirements. From what I've seen so far DE are very good at listening to the players and trying hard to keep us happy and engaged, maybe things will change in the future, who knows, but some of the hate that seems to get pointed at them because they're not handing over everything at once to whoever asks for it, is just a little extreem.

[Story4]

Thats not a fact. Its an opinion....

I like to think that it's a fact because my supercharged warframes are more powerfull than the non-supercharged ones.

[Venarge]

I like to think that it's a fact because my supercharged warframes are more powerfull than the non-supercharged ones.

 

Its just a fact that hes powerfull. But not that you will lose hard on special planets without it....

Edited April 13, 2013 by Venarge

[Story4]

One simple question..

 

If every item (including pots.) and slots were craftable, and no-one had to pay for anything at all, how long before DE either..

1) Go out of business, or..

2) Start putting a ton of ads into the game to try and stay afloat?

 

I know this is a free to play game...but let's face it Nothing in life is free, someone, somewhere always has to pay..DE have bills to pay, as the game grows those bills are going to grow with it.  You can play for free, but you can't have everything at the same time for free. Personally I don't see any issue with that.

Pots. may be very hard to get, yes...some luck is involved, yes....but they can be got free. Slots may be a core part of the game, but they are not an absolute requirement in order to max level several frames allowing for full-power play at all levels. 

 

Give DE a break, they provide a hell of a lot for nothing, kudos to them. But they are still a business and they have to make money. If that means they have to draw a line somewhere and say " this is as far as we can go just now" then that's a decision they will make based on their business requirements. From what I've seen so far DE are very good at listening to the players and trying hard to keep us happy and engaged, maybe things will change in the future, who knows, but some of the hate that seems to get pointed at them because they're not handing over everything at once to whoever asks for it, is just a little extreem.

 

Some simple facts:

-in League of Legends you can get any hero you want without paying money? yes

-in Dota 2 can you get any hero you want without paying money? yes, actually if i'm not mistaken they are all unlocked

-in Blacklight retribution, can you get any weapon and any armor/gear? yes

-in Tribes ascend, can you get any weapon or class without any money? yes

-in World of tanks can you get every tank without money and without having to regrind all the xp and gear in case you sell them? yes

 

I guess that they shouldn't have been so succesfull since any player can get anything without paying money except visual items.

 

Also i didn't say that a F2P player should get anything in a week. I said well over 400 hours. 400 hours is a bit over 16 days of non-stop playing, or if you play 3 hours every day it would take you 133 days. This is without counting fusion costs and without all the time that you will have to play getting every warframe and warframe to level-up.

 

 

Its just a fact that hes powerfull. But not that you will lose hard on special planets without it....

 

Yes you will, especially if you don't have a supercharged weapon. Just the Hek does a LOT more damage after i supercharged it compared to the non-supercharged version. Without the non-supercharged version you can barely damage some enemies on high-level planets.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Story4

[Starberyl]

Unless they nerf drop rates even more and force people to buy dragon mod packs. So far....not exactly pay2win although they're leaning towards it.