Ash Potential

[_Zexis]

yes i know Damage is not scale well in high level. utility does scale well.

 

There you go, you said it yourself. That is why Ash is not high tier and without heavy reworking of his abilities, never will be. There are certain frames that will always be effective regardless of enemy level. Ash is not one of them.

[eraze93]

There you go, you said it yourself. That is why Ash is not high tier and without heavy reworking of his abilities, never will be. There are certain frames that will always be effective regardless of enemy level. Ash is not one of them.

 

well the bladestorm got its heavy rework. deal DPS, 3 clones, have attack limit.

 

and ash scale well in late game, high tier game (t4). you just dont know yet and maybe you should try it. because i try it and i can.

his damage is unique and special, it deal pure damage (finisher) and no frame can deal pure damage except ash,

that scale well in high tier game (t4)

 

i brought ash in t4 defense and t4 survival with the surprising compliment from the team that they say them self that ash is NOW CAPABLE BEING IN HIGH TIER Void Mission.

 

3 frame that have CC + ash bladestorm is just called teamplay. (my) Ash is Carrying them.

 

and please,

everyone is boring already in 60 wave defense, or very tired in 60 min game of survival in void T4

30-60 wave T4 and 30-60 min T4 is called high tier game right? and now ash can be there to offer the help.

 

and you must try it. well if you have passion toward ash ofc.

 

[WhulfPack]

I main Ash.

 

Ash/Paris Prime/Nikana  (my side arm has to be determined)

 

In most missions I account for anywhere between 45-75% of damage done for the team. He can solo hold one flank on his own. Especially if you give him a Raksa with shield regen. 

 

His the most raw outright damage dealing frame I've ever played (I admit I only started with Mad Cephalon) but still. His Bladestorm really does make him the guy that goes "Oh, you're getting swamped in bad guys. My side is empty ... BLADE STORM!!!" And GG. If you're looking for damage. Ash is the frame for that. I have yet to find an equal when I'm sporting him. Rhino is the king of tankiness. Ash is the king of damage. 

 

If people don't want me because I have no utility ...... Well not my loss.

[Cowpower99]

You are also welcome to your opinion but seeing as I am Mastery Rank 16 I am far from inexperienced. Though my opinions may be colored by the past of the game and not the current. I personally cannot see any reason to bring Ash to any kind of T4 when there are clearly better choices for the slots even more so for a Tier 4 defense.

Ash can clear mobs in a flash, if an enemy survives the first hit, the enemy still gets 16 more hits.

2000 flat damageX 17 total strikes=  34,000 damage with bleed doing hundreds of damage over 7 seconds. Not only is this powerful, but it can distract all the enemies in the mob as well, kinda like a ghetto version of Loki's Decoy

[eraze93]

I main Ash.

 

Ash/Paris Prime/Nikana  (my side arm has to be determined)

 

In most missions I account for anywhere between 45-75% of damage done for the team. He can solo hold one flank on his own. Especially if you give him a Raksa with shield regen. 

 

His the most raw outright damage dealing frame I've ever played (I admit I only started with Mad Cephalon) but still. His Bladestorm really does make him the guy that goes "Oh, you're getting swamped in bad guys. My side is empty ... BLADE STORM!!!" And GG. If you're looking for damage. Ash is the frame for that. I have yet to find an equal when I'm sporting him. Rhino is the king of tankiness. Ash is the king of damage. 

 

If people don't want me because I have no utility ...... Well not my loss.

yes this^^^

 

my point is.

i want to announce, give some picture.

and delete the impression or stereotype like,

"huh? you use ash in defend? oh please change it, we dont need you, we will resquad this is t4"

"ash? what can he do in defend? this is t4 you know?! you better dont slow us down"

 

 

meh. with the new bladestorm. ash now capable.

 

[eraze93]

you know guys the other utility of bladestorm is

 

Saving your ammo from shooting lv 50-100 heavy gunner. let ash finish them off.

 

dont shoot the enemy that have mark on it. shoot the other, that teamplay.

 

in t4 60 survival we can find lv 100 heavy gunner and thats when bladestorm start useless.

well do you want to play every single t4 survival past 60 min? i think not bro.

 

just extract before your warframe crashed.

 

ash scale well from 30-60 t4 both survival and defense high level mission. i have experienced this. have you or will you?

 

dont believe me? try to remod your ash then, rework him, use bladestorm build. be the carry.

 

a Good Ash make every single CC his team give, WORTH. by bladestorming.

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by eraze93

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

If you really like the Ash frame like some of us here do, please check out my post on his abilities and some fixes. Thanks!

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/282487-the-ashen-one/#entry3243848

[R4yn0r]

Just to clarify again, the people who think that Ashs dmg output is low have never played him correctly.

 

Bladestorm has a base of 2k dmg with an additional guaranteed Bleed proc (7 ticks of 35% extra dmg, 245% in total). This ability scales with the melee multiplier which is also increased by Bladestorm itself. Now, get Blind Rage to double your dmg and a Dual Ichor/Zoren to keep the melee multiplier up (those weapons are the best to get a high multiplier fast) and keep your multiplier at 2x+ which effectively makes your Bladestorm do 8k + 19,6k (Bleed) dmg in total per hit. This "scales" the higher the enemies get because you're actually able to get the melee multiplier higher because enemies don't die instantly anymore. A good player will be able to constantly have a 2,5x+ multiplier up with Teleport and Bladestorm which allows him to do crazy dmg with his ulti. A Bladestorm with a 2,5x+ multiplier and a maxed Blind Rage is able to clear a whole room of level 100 enemies.

Edited August 12, 2014 by R4yn0r

[PlayerNone]

What is this nonsense? Blade Storm deals damage. Damage that falls off drastically with high level enemies. It "locks down" 17 or so enemies for 5 seconds tops. Nyx, Vaubun, and even meh frames like Excalibur and Hyrdiod can CC better than that. Loki does invis better, and a multitude of other frames do CC far better. Ash, as he is, will never even outperform Frost in defense. A flashier and slightly more deadly ult means nothing when compared to Chaos or Bastille.

 

His the most raw outright damage dealing frame I've ever played (I admit I only started with Mad Cephalon) but still. 

 

You really must have accrued a lot of play time. So much so that any veteran player would look foolish indeed to challenge your notion that damage is better than utility in high level play.

 

Also Rhino isn't the king of tankiness. That title belongs to self-damage Trinity. King of damage is Mirage, with Nova being runner up. Hall of Mirrors is just too good.

 

Ash can clear mobs in a flash, if an enemy survives the first hit, the enemy still gets 16 more hits.

2000 flat damageX 17 total strikes=  34,000 damage with bleed doing hundreds of damage over 7 seconds. Not only is this powerful, but it can distract all the enemies in the mob as well, kinda like a ghetto version of Loki's Decoy

 

That's not how it works. Each enemy does not get hit 17 times. Ash can attack a grand total of 17 times, which is split between a max of 18 enemies. The 2 clones ensure that each target will get at least 2 or 3 hits. Any good rifle can easily outpace that kind of damage.

 

yes this^^^

 

my point is.

i want to announce, give some picture.
and delete the impression or stereotype like,

"huh? you use ash in defend? oh please change it, we dont need you, we will resquad this is t4"

"ash? what can he do in defend? this is t4 you know?! you better dont slow us down"

 

 

meh. with the new bladestorm. ash now capable.
 

 

Ash it still mediocre. Upping the damage does not change the mechanics, which is what really determines how useful a frame is in any given scenario. Nobody uses Vortex or Bastille for the damage. They use them because it makes Infested Defense child's play.

[eraze93]

with that bladestorm (the new bladestorm), ash is now damage frame that scale well in high level mission.
if you play him correctly.

[MadHatHacker]

What is this nonsense? Blade Storm deals damage. Damage that falls off drastically with high level enemies. It "locks down" 17 or so enemies for 5 seconds tops. Nyx, Vaubun, and even meh frames like Excalibur and Hyrdiod can CC better than that. Loki does invis better, and a multitude of other frames do CC far better. Ash, as he is, will never even outperform Frost in defense. A flashier and slightly more deadly ult means nothing when compared to Chaos or Bastille.

 

 

You really must have accrued a lot of play time. So much so that any veteran player would look foolish indeed to challenge your notion that damage is better than utility in high level play.

 

Also Rhino isn't the king of tankiness. That title belongs to self-damage Trinity. King of damage is Mirage, with Nova being runner up. Hall of Mirrors is just too good.

 

 

That's not how it works. Each enemy does not get hit 17 times. Ash can attack a grand total of 17 times, which is split between a max of 18 enemies. The 2 clones ensure that each target will get at least 2 or 3 hits. Any good rifle can easily outpace that kind of damage.

 

 

Ash it still mediocre. Upping the damage does not change the mechanics, which is what really determines how useful a frame is in any given scenario. Nobody uses Vortex or Bastille for the damage. They use them because it makes Infested Defense child's play.

Thank you for pointing out the things I didn't want to in the sarcastic tone I wanted to use. The catharsis is unbelievable.

[Darkreaper006]

Ash is very Stronk frame, why you say this?

 

Ash much Stronk for tier, you take. Yes?

Yes, you take.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Also Rhino isn't the king of tankiness. That title belongs to self-damage Trinity.

Isn't it life strike Valkyr the "Queen" of tanks, and Trinity being all around the best heal/supporter

[eraze93]

What is this nonsense? Blade Storm deals damage. Damage that falls off drastically with high level enemies. It "locks down" 17 or so enemies for 5 seconds tops. Nyx, Vaubun, and even meh frames like Excalibur and Hyrdiod can CC better than that. Loki does invis better, and a multitude of other frames do CC far better. Ash, as he is, will never even outperform Frost in defense. A flashier and slightly more deadly ult means nothing when compared to Chaos or Bastille.

 

 

You really must have accrued a lot of play time. So much so that any veteran player would look foolish indeed to challenge your notion that damage is better than utility in high level play.

 

Also Rhino isn't the king of tankiness. That title belongs to self-damage Trinity. King of damage is Mirage, with Nova being runner up. Hall of Mirrors is just too good.

 

 

That's not how it works. Each enemy does not get hit 17 times. Ash can attack a grand total of 17 times, which is split between a max of 18 enemies. The 2 clones ensure that each target will get at least 2 or 3 hits. Any good rifle can easily outpace that kind of damage.

 

 

Ash it still mediocre. Upping the damage does not change the mechanics, which is what really determines how useful a frame is in any given scenario. Nobody uses Vortex or Bastille for the damage. They use them because it makes Infested Defense child's play.

 

bro you clearly only see bad player playing ash.

i mean bad with the modding.

yes damage will fall off. all damage will fall off. we all know that.

except pure damage.

the damage that ash deal is pure damage.

without blindrage i stab 3 times lv 50 heavy gunner t4 survival 2 hours ago. only for 25 energy, i have 320 max energy.

 

"Damage that falls off drastically with high level enemies"

then define high level.

lv 200?

no one playing that to meet lv 200. what for?

the high level is from lv30-100 mob enemies.

 

I know you never try to bladestorming lv 60-70 enemies. have you?

 

which is ash can instanly kill lv 30-100 mob enemies with the new bladestorm.

 

read my post before.

 

this is fact now, coz i play him well.

 

i brought ash in t4 defense and t4 survival with the surprising compliment from the team that they say them self that ash is NOW CAPABLE BEING IN HIGH TIER Void Mission.

 

we hold 60 wave, and 60 minutes. different squad.

 

with me as 54% damage dealt.

 

3 frame that have CC + ash bladestorm is just called teamplay. (my) Ash is Carrying them.

 

a Good Ash make every single CC his team give, WORTH

 

so this is the utility, you dont have too fire your ultima weapon, just leave it to ash. defend the pod. let ash bladestorming.

attack enemies that are not marked by bladestorm.

 

bladestorm keep enemies at bay. coz in high level it perma stun 15 enemies, until it dies.

 

 

 

 

[PlayerNone]

Just to clarify again, the people who think that Ashs dmg output is low have never played him correctly.

 

Bladestorm has a base of 2k dmg with an additional guaranteed Bleed proc (7 ticks of 35% extra dmg, 245% in total). This ability scales with the melee multiplier which is also increased by Bladestorm itself. Now, get Blind Rage to double your dmg and a Dual Ichor/Zoren to keep the melee multiplier up (those weapons are the best to get a high multiplier fast) and keep your multiplier at 2x+ which effectively makes your Bladestorm do 8k + 19,6k (Bleed) dmg in total per hit. This "scales" the higher the enemies get because you're actually able to get the melee multiplier higher because enemies don't die instantly anymore. A good player will be able to constantly have a 2,5x+ multiplier up with Teleport and Bladestorm which allows him to do crazy dmg with his ulti. A Bladestorm with a 2,5x+ multiplier and a maxed Blind Rage is able to clear a whole room of level 100 enemies.

 

[Citation Needed]

 

That looks lovely on paper, but it's time for a reality check. Your first problem was making melee a vital part of your calculation for a single ability, which is vastly inferior to using your primary in general. Even worse, you actually suggested using Dual Zorens as anything but a coptering tool. Worst of all, you actually believe meleeing level 100 enemies is anything but hilariously suicidal. You will be dead before you can press 4 if you try to melee a lvl 100 heavy gunner, so there goes a huge chunk of your damage. Before you say Smokescreen, you should know that you can't mod for both that and Bladestorm without horribly crippling yourself. Even more humorous, you had to through in that last bit about clearing a room. Bladestorm hits 18 enemies max. Any situation that features lvl 100 enemies is going to have far more than 18 enemies in single room. So congratulations, you're dealing less damage than even a Nova would at that point; and you're taking a spot that could've gone to Nyx. She actually can clear the whole room, by herself, with her 4 or even her 3.

[R4yn0r]

[Citation Needed]

 

That looks lovely on paper, but it's time for a reality check. Your first problem was making melee a vital part of your calculation for a single ability, which is vastly inferior to using your primary in general. Even worse, you actually suggested using Dual Zorens as anything but a coptering tool. Worst of all, you actually believe meleeing level 100 enemies is anything but hilariously suicidal. You will be dead before you can press 4 if you try to melee a lvl 100 heavy gunner, so there goes a huge chunk of your damage. Before you say Smokescreen, you should know that you can't mod for both that and Bladestorm without horribly crippling yourself. Even more humorous, you had to through in that last bit about clearing a room. Bladestorm hits 18 enemies max. Any situation that features lvl 100 enemies is going to have far more than 18 enemies in single room. So congratulations, you're dealing less damage than even a Nova would at that point; and you're taking a spot that could've gone to Nyx. She actually can clear the whole room, by herself, with her 4 or even her 3.

 

Too bad that the combination of Vitality/Rage/Quick Thinking/Life Strike exists. You can literally tank level 100 Heavy Gunners without batting an eye with melee. If you would've ever played with Ash (or any other frame with that mod combination) at the 60+ min mark then you'd know what I'm talking about.

 

The max amount of hits you do only applies for you. Your clones will continue attacking until YOU have done the 18 hits which could result in a total of 18*3 hits.

 

I regularly solo/duo T3/4 Survivals till 60minutes and longer and I easily clear those ROOMS YES ROOMS of enemies with Bladestorm.

 

I should try and record it the next time I'm doing a run like that.

Edited August 13, 2014 by R4yn0r

[eraze93]

[Citation Needed]

 

That looks lovely on paper, but it's time for a reality check. Your first problem was making melee a vital part of your calculation for a single ability, which is vastly inferior to using your primary in general. Even worse, you actually suggested using Dual Zorens as anything but a coptering tool. Worst of all, you actually believe meleeing level 100 enemies is anything but hilariously suicidal. You will be dead before you can press 4 if you try to melee a lvl 100 heavy gunner, so there goes a huge chunk of your damage. Before you say Smokescreen, you should know that you can't mod for both that and Bladestorm without horribly crippling yourself. Even more humorous, you had to through in that last bit about clearing a room. Bladestorm hits 18 enemies max. Any situation that features lvl 100 enemies is going to have far more than 18 enemies in single room. So congratulations, you're dealing less damage than even a Nova would at that point; and you're taking a spot that could've gone to Nyx. She actually can clear the whole room, by herself, with her 4 or even her 3.

 

ya i agree with this one. about the FACT and actual ingame.

 

when mob reach lv 50 above, melee is not an option. maybe loki still have that option. but for most frame,

melee is not an option

 

running escape, hiding while gunning is the best option

 

but i still agree that even without melee ash can still kill small mob, and doing 3-4 stab each heavy unit.

 

calm down, my point is ash is now capable to do high level mission

 

my high level mission is wave 30-60 t4

and survival 30-60 min t4

 

please bro, we dont play to meet lv 150-200 mob. plz. ez.

Edited August 13, 2014 by eraze93

[eraze93]

Too bad that the combination of Vitality/Rage/Quick Thinking/Life Strike exists. You can literally tank level 100 Heavy Gunners without batting an eye with melee. If you would've ever played with Ash at the 60+ min mark then you'd know what I'm talking about.

 

The max amount of hits you do only applies for you. Your clones will continue attacking until YOU have done the 18 hits which could result in a total of 18*3 hits.

 

I regularly solo/duo T3/4 Survivals till 60minutes and longer and I easily clear those ROOMS YES ROOMS of enemies with Bladestorm.

 

I should try and record it the next time I'm doing a run like that.

 

well i cannot argue with this one, he is more experienced at melee in t4 s.

i survive 60 min t4 too. but not with melee though, im prefer gunning.

 

but here it is, i believe this is true.

when playing ash, i always have lifestrike.

Edited August 13, 2014 by eraze93

[ThePredicament]

Ash players are pretty funny.

 

Pure damage and all that. Like Hydroid players thinking that Tentacles is the ultimate attack skill.

[Burns2PvP]

hello again. well this is general discussion so i wana discuss.

In My Opinion (IMO)

Ash is now HIGH TIER frame. Thank you scott.

and i am dare to say that HIS DAMAGE is HIS UTILITY In high level (t4)

 

i am dare to say that please no more hate towards ash in defense high level.

 

because you need ash in high level defend now.

 

lets discuss. it should be fun.

 

before you comment though. please check this 1st:

 

the best ability ingame for now

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Blade_Storm

 

 

 

edited:

 

oh ya please comment yes i agree, no i disagree in your last comment about mine: Ash is now HIGH TIER frame

 

.. Highest tier..

 

I would enjoy to see you guys get past a t4 at wave 30 with only ash's. You would require either a vauban, frost or nova or another nuke frame. Ash's ability (Bladestorm) as you said has made him good? It is random. If your sitting near a pod and the enemy starts attacking the pod while you are blade storming it will not put it to a higher priority. Even if you start somewhere else, it rarely comes back without knocking 2 - 4 enemies out on the other side of the map first.

 

Ash is not the highest tier. I can guarantee you that and if you need proof, hit me up in the forums or in game and I will prove to you in a dps contest at a high end level ;)

[basilioss]

To all you people who judge players by frames, you are the worst kind of inexperienced. I have fallen back in love with my starter frame, Mag, after recently attaining Mag Prime. Many players (mostly Rhino's) have bashed me for playing a supposedly useless frame. Pull is incredible cc in the right hands, and Shield Polarize scales incredibly allowing you to always remove 100% of their shields. With the explosion damage and multiplier from shields, Mag wrecks T4 regardless of level. Despite supposedly being a bad frame, in the right hands and with the right build Mag can do ridiculous amounts of damage at all levels, including extremely far into T4 survival, probably more than any other frame currently in the game. The point I'm trying to make is that every frame can be used effectively, regardless of people's opinions on that frame in general.

[Lightwire]

"It's not the weapon that makes the man, but the man that makes the weapon."

The only way for you to effectively use a frame to it's highest potential is to be well versed in every ability and know when and how to use them to the fullest potential. Focusing fully on a single ability severely reduces your survivability.

Dominant Strategy, as you've stated, is a flawed mechanic. All the damage in the world won't save you at higher levels. It's your allies and how you all work in a cohesive unit, that will ultimately prove the deciding factor whether or not you live in the end to reap your rewards.

There is great strength in numbers, and alone, not one of them will survive for long. Not Ash, not Trinity, not Rhino, not even Valkyr or Mirage. Not Excalibur, not Vauban, not Mag, and not Banshee. Not Frost, not Hydroid, not even Loki the "master race".

Not Nekros, not Nova, not Volt, not Nyx or Oberon. Not Saryn, Ember, or Zephyr.

But together, victory can at least be obtainable.

TL; DR:
Relying on one ability will prove to be your greatest mistake in this game.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Lightwire

[NickBoay]

okay calm down. i can summarize this. as an ash player i want to clarify that:

Ash frame is MID-tier frame (by default)

 

Ash can be HIGH TIER frame, with good player that play him. (which is i dare to say that its rare)

 

and because warframe is 4 man squad. THE TEAMPLAY.

because i do play ash till wave 60 (defense) survival 60min, with good team ofc. maybe ill screenshot later.

 

i can solo t4 60 coz its solo (high spawn rate), much easier play t4 solo than 4 man squad without necros and low spawn rate.

Ash is not BAD Frame, if you say so. please dont. dont hate ash, teach that bad player how to play ash properly (if you feel that you veteran/pro).

and for now Ash is perfect. dont need buff or nerf. he is fine now.

i agree with ya 100%.

 

You put a SS of mimas but you talk about T4 survival. That is entirely counter productive to your argument about using Ash and MISLEADING.

 

You're making Ash look worse because of your attitude - if you bothered to read my previous posts starting from page 1, maybe you can tell I know what Ash can do and I know who does it better than Ash.

 

Ash is a beast for PvP - PvE, he'll forever be midtier because of how PvE works out. You've proven he's mid tier, anyone can sit at Mimas for 1hr and Mimas is midtier.

all i read when i see u talk is "blabllablabla" rlly just get the message i was giving, have no time for you

[NickBoay]

.. Highest tier..

 

I would enjoy to see you guys get past a t4 at wave 30 with only ash's. You would require either a vauban, frost or nova or another nuke frame. Ash's ability (Bladestorm) as you said has made him good? It is random. If your sitting near a pod and the enemy starts attacking the pod while you are blade storming it will not put it to a higher priority. Even if you start somewhere else, it rarely comes back without knocking 2 - 4 enemies out on the other side of the map first.

 

Ash is not the highest tier. I can guarantee you that and if you need proof, hit me up in the forums or in game and I will prove to you in a dps contest at a high end level ;)

wave 30+ with only ashes? done that :) do you realize that 4 ashes bladestorming = 12 ashes ( counting the clones) you have no idea how fast the entire wave is dead. i have to agree with you that if you try that with random ash players that youll be in for a sh!tstorm instead of a bladestorm, but those of us with  "infinite bladestorm" and those of us who are "Ashperienced" manage just fine.

 

lemme throw sum ninja wisdom on you...

 

"a stone user can beat a shuriken user, if the stone user is effective enough".

Edited August 13, 2014 by NickBoay

[NickBoay]

What is this nonsense? Blade Storm deals damage. Damage that falls off drastically with high level enemies. It "locks down" 17 or so enemies for 5 seconds tops. Nyx, Vaubun, and even meh frames like Excalibur and Hyrdiod can CC better than that. Loki does invis better, and a multitude of other frames do CC far better. Ash, as he is, will never even outperform Frost in defense. A flashier and slightly more deadly ult means nothing when compared to Chaos or Bastille.

 

 

You really must have accrued a lot of play time. So much so that any veteran player would look foolish indeed to challenge your notion that damage is better than utility in high level play.

 

Also Rhino isn't the king of tankiness. That title belongs to self-damage Trinity. King of damage is Mirage, with Nova being runner up. Hall of Mirrors is just too good.

 

 

That's not how it works. Each enemy does not get hit 17 times. Ash can attack a grand total of 17 times, which is split between a max of 18 enemies. The 2 clones ensure that each target will get at least 2 or 3 hits. Any good rifle can easily outpace that kind of damage.

 

 

Ash it still mediocre. Upping the damage does not change the mechanics, which is what really determines how useful a frame is in any given scenario. Nobody uses Vortex or Bastille for the damage. They use them because it makes Infested Defense child's play.

dude im here since warframe was still blue "smurf-frame" and i share his opinion about ash being the best, but my opinion and i "think" also his opinion is based on myself/himself , since HE is able to play it like a pro , I am able to play him like a pro, TONS of OP is able to play him like a pro, if you ask me you Cant play him as a pro, you need ninjablood to be deadly with ash. else just grab a rhino and a boltor prime or something.

 

since bladestorm had the update of ash having clones and faster anims i can solo defenses with ash , wich was "Unthinkable" in the past and wouldnt even get past wave 5 some situations, times changed ash has game.