[Suggestion] Rewards For Acrobatic Gameplay

[PurpleHaze265]

Me and a friend where palying the other day and we thought about this:

 

The movement system in warframe is one of the most fun I´ve ever played (yea I know the sprinting is somewhat stucky and wallrunning doesn´t work 100 of the time but come on..) But now when I play and I am sure I am not alone with this, I play more like Max Payne for example. I use cover and aim down the sights. Thats all okay for players who want that but I though that there could be some kind of reward for kills during sliding,wallruns etc.

And I don´t mean that it should be a unfair advantage for "tactical" players but a little bit more weapon xp or a slightly bigger chance to drop a Module or something.

 

I think 60% of the players don´t use the acrobatics unless it´s necessary to move on in the map.

 

Just my Idea let me know what you think :) suggestions are welcome too.

[sambarpowder]

I try to be as stylish as possible. I imagine a score counter and a trio of judges, like in those surfing mnigames with the tricks and stuff. It's cool.

[flunkymomo]

there's already a reward for acrobatic gameplay, it's fun. if someone likes playing in a different way they can do that without thinking "oh what if I had just headshot him while backflipping I could have gotten X mod". The reward of getting a headshot in the middle of volts super speed is reward enough I'd say.

[Satori_Mind]

I'd love a crit bonus for dive shots or while wallrunning.  Or even something like 10% more damage for one second after dodge rolling.  While I know it won't happen, it might be cool if DE took a page from Bulletstorm.  Give small bonuses for varied kill chains.  Every unique type of kill within seconds of the last adds and extra affinity bonus.  Headshot, bisect, electrocute, then an explosive barrel triple kill.  It's not as much about the reward as it is about being recognized.  It's like the game is saying, "That was pretty sweet, bro."

[Elhazzared]

I don't approve of the idea for the simple fact that while some people can do very basic stuff they cannot do harder stuff and no, for some people it isn't a case of training, they just cannot time things right to do acorbatics and it will make them feel like they are being cheated of advantages others are getting. In other cases there are people who don't like doing acrobatics and they shouldn't be penalised for not doing them.

 

The current way is the better, you can do acrobatics or not, it doesn't affect your gains at the end of the mission, it's all about how you want to have your fun.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Elhazzared

[Satori_Mind]

I don't approve of the idea for the simple fact that while some people can do very basic stuff they cannot do harder stuff and no, for some people it isn't a case of training, they just cannot time things right to do acorbatics and it will make them feel like they are being cheated of advantages others are getting. In other cases there are people who don't like doing acrobatics and they shouldn't be penalised for doing them.

 

The current way is the better, you can do acrobatics or not, it doesn't affect your gains at the end of the mission, it's all about how you want to have your fun.

That's why it's more about being recognized.  It feels better than patting yourself on the back for that sweet wallrun-headshot-jumpkick-ground attack.  Any in-game bonuses are secondary.

[Elhazzared]

You are not being recognised, it's not like there is a scoreboard with replays of those moments for everyone to see. Recognition is in other people's eyes, not in the form of extra affinity or other ingame bonus. Again that is giving some players advantages just because they are better at acrobatics which by no means is more efficiency. It will lead to players feeling frustated over not getting the same bonus that others are getting and frustation eventually leads to rage quits.

[Satori_Mind]

You are not being recognised, it's not like there is a scoreboard with replays of those moments for everyone to see. Recognition is in other people's eyes, not in the form of extra affinity or other ingame bonus. Again that is giving some players advantages just because they are better at acrobatics which by no means is more efficiency. It will lead to players feeling frustated over not getting the same bonus that others are getting and frustation eventually leads to rage quits.

Sounds like someone has stubby fingers.  Projecting like that is a bad habit.  It's not like this is GunZ where relentless, precision button mashing and glitch abuse is required to even function in some places.

 

I'm now encouraged to touch the floor as little as possible in public games.  The floor is lava!

[Ronyn]

I want the acrobatic movements to make the enemies more prone to missing their shots.

This would promote the use of acrobatics for a clear combat advanatge.

 

I'm not specificaly against a scoring system of some kind but I don't ever want the focus of warframes combat system to be "style" for the sake of "style".

I want the focus to be on effective combat tactics that happen to be stylish.

 

People might think its the same thing but it really isnt.

 

Style for the sake of style can mean that youre fighting an enemy who doesnt require much effort but you do crazy moves just because you can.

This gets boring quickly as there is no challenge in the fight, and it breeds a sort of "trick" centric style of play more suited for a skateboard game than a combat game.

 

Style that happens as result of seeking combat effectiveness means that youre fighting any enemy that requires crazy moves to beat.

This is the kind of complex enemy interactioin that breeds deep combat and tactical choice. This keeps a game interesting because your head is IN THE FIGHt and you do whatever it takes to win.

 

Both look cool to watch but only one is a truly rewarding combat experiance. 

[Syde]

So... players who are better at playing the game would get more stuff. BLASPHEMY!!!!

I'm all for it, no reason not to. Oh wait, better players can't get more stuff than bad players. Wait a minute... Doesn't that defeat the entire core concept of "game" anyway?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Syde

[Elhazzared]

Being able to do more acrobatics doesn't means you're better, it means you can do it more stylishly. Shooting an enemy in the head while standing still or while doing a wall jump is just as effective and no player should be penalised for not being able to do it while walljumping.

 

And yeah, I can do some acrobatics, I can't do it as well as others and quite frankly, I don't care for it. I have my fun moving around and gunning down everything in sight, not running over walls and doing fancy moves.

 

I still don't see it fair that players who can do better acrobatics (which is by no means better gameplay since I can just in the same way beat the level without dificulty) getting more rewards than others and quite frankly, I'd start despising this game the moment this would be added.

 

PS: Some warframes are better for this as well. Think of Rhino and Loki. Who's ever going to score more stylish points no matter how good you are? Yeah, not hard to guess!

Edited April 14, 2013 by Elhazzared

[Ronyn]

So... players who are better at playing the game would get more stuff. BLASPHEMY!!!!

Don't better players get through levels faster, kill more enemies and therefore gain credits, xp and mods faster than bad players already?

Do we really want a point system on top of that? Something that rewards arbitrary actions in combat just for the sake of gaining points?

I certainly dont.

 

Being able to do more acrobatics doesn't means you're better, it means you can do it more stylishly. Shooting an enemy in the head while standing still or while doing a wall jump is just as effective and no player should be penalised for not being able to do it while walljumping.

 

I pose the question-Should it be just as effective?

I'm not talking about adding some point system for doing acrobatics.

I'm talking about making enemies have trouble keping their gun trained on you because your movinga round like a madman.

Shooters and action games in general have generally rewarded evasive actions by having you take less damage then when youre making your self an easy target.

Why should warframe be any different?

 

Frames that are more capable of taking hits dont have to rely on evasion as much, but frames that are squishier and are already reliant on evasion should get hit less for using those evasions.

[Elhazzared]

Don't better players get through levels faster, kill more enemies and therefore gain credits, xp and mods faster than bad players already?

Do we really want a point system on top of that? Something that rewards arbitrary actions in combat just for the sake of gaining points?

I certainly dont.

 

 

I pose the question-Should it be just as effective?

I'm not talking about adding some point system for doing acrobatics.

I'm talking about making enemies have trouble keping their gun trained on you because your movinga round like a madman.

Shooters and action games in general have generally rewarded evasive actions by having you take less damage then when youre making your self an easy target.

Why should warframe be any different?

 

Frames that are more capable of taking hits dont have to rely on evasion as much, but frames that are squishier and are already reliant on evasion should get hit less for using those evasions.

 

Well, if by effective you take into account damage taken then possibly not as effective. I'm talking from the point of killing the enemy. While walljumping you take less damage not because the damage is less but because less bullets will hit you and that in and of itself is reward enough. However on the point of how much damage the enemy takes, it's all the same.

 

In  the end damage taken is hardly something that matters. this is not a turn based strategy game where you get score at the end by damage caused, damage taken and turns to acomplish the mission. Mission effectiveness is no more than how fast you killed your enemies and whether or not you managed to acomplish the mission. At least in any shooter.

[Ronyn]

Well, if by effective you take into account damage taken then possibly not as effective. I'm talking from the point of killing the enemy. While walljumping you take less damage not because the damage is less but because less bullets will hit you and that in and of itself is reward enough. However on the point of how much damage the enemy takes, it's all the same.

 

In  the end damage taken is hardly something that matters. this is not a turn based strategy game where you get score at the end by damage caused, damage taken and turns to acomplish the mission. Mission effectiveness is no more than how fast you killed your enemies and whether or not you managed to acomplish the mission. At least in any shooter.

How much damage you avoid is quite important in the outcome of a battle.

One can't kill enemies when one is dead. lol

 

All I'm saying is evasive techniques should be rewarded by getting hit less.

Sometimes it feels like the enemies hit you the same regardless of what sort of crazy manuver youre involved in.

I believe that is what takes the need away from the acrobatics. Its why so many people dont bother with them.

They dont consistantly do what they look like they should be doing.

 

I'm no fan of scoring systems, I am a huge fan of combat depth.

I'm looking for acrobatics to do a job, not add to my points.

[Elhazzared]

How much damage you avoid is quite important in the outcome of a battle.

One can't kill enemies when one is dead. lol

 

All I'm saying is evasive techniques should be rewarded by getting hit less.

Sometimes it feels like the enemies hit you the same regardless of what sort of crazy manuver youre involved in.

I believe that is what takes the need away from the acrobatics. Its why so many people dont bother with them.

They dont consistantly do what they look like they should be doing.

 

I'm no fan of scoring systems, I am a huge fan of combat depth.

I'm looking for acrobatics to do a job, not add to my points.

 

You take a little bit less damage if you are activelly dodging, while not a whole lot it is less damage and it's significant to staying alive. Still I can do it without dodging around too much and still be alive. In the end I say damage taken doesn't matters for combat effectiveness because if you're dead and have no revives then you did failed the mission so there goes the combat effectiveness, if you finish the mission then what does it matter how much damage did you take? It's not like you're going to be in the hospital for a month with broken ribs and whatnot lol.

 

Now some manuvers, depending on your combat style are very important. Say you like to mellee a lot. A good way to close on the enemy dirty fast is wallrun then jump and you get a huge sprint foward, still not enough? Slide, jump roll foward and another boost to speed. You can close in insanely fast and you avoided a ton of shots. acrobatis for shooting I feel they really aren't important, the less you move the easier it is to aim after all.

 

Still I don't see players should receive more rewards for dodging, that's all. I don't mind if they add more combat manovers and all that jazz. it's all mighty fine and for those who really care about them, it gives them a great sense of satisfaction to acomplish them and use them effectively in combat, but those who don't because they aren't good at it or because they simply don't like it, it shouldn't com as a penalty to them. Again there are warframes that are not good for acrobatics like the Rhino who has a huge speed disadvantage and who favors a more slugish type of combat and in fact, was designed with that concept in mind.

[Satori_Mind]

Being able to do more acrobatics doesn't means you're better, it means you can do it more stylishly. Shooting an enemy in the head while standing still or while doing a wall jump is just as effective and no player should be penalised for not being able to do it while walljumping.

 

And yeah, I can do some acrobatics, I can't do it as well as others and quite frankly, I don't care for it. I have my fun moving around and gunning down everything in sight, not running over walls and doing fancy moves.

 

I still don't see it fair that players who can do better acrobatics (which is by no means better gameplay since I can just in the same way beat the level without dificulty) getting more rewards than others and quite frankly, I'd start despising this game the moment this would be added.

 

PS: Some warframes are better for this as well. Think of Rhino and Loki. Who's ever going to score more stylish points no matter how good you are? Yeah, not hard to guess!

Guys, some people can aim better than me.  It's not fair that they're performing better!

 

Rhino can and will do acrobatics like Loki.  Don't all frames have the same stamina?  They're exo-suits, not tanks.

[Elhazzared]

Guys, some people can aim better than me.  It's not fair that they're performing better!

 

Rhino can and will do acrobatics like Loki.  Don't all frames have the same stamina?  They're exo-suits, not tanks.

 

The idiocy runs high.

 

Really, don't compare acrobatics to aiming, one thing rellies on incredible precision of a combination of varied buttons to press while another is just moved the mouse around and click and again, doing acrobatics doesn't means you perform better. I can get to the end killing everything and without dying just as well someone who is the whole time leaping around like a monkey. they are different playstyles and one shouldn't be penalised over the other.

 

Also, Yes, Rhino can do acrobatics but it will be penalised with it's speed, you can't go as fast doing the wallruns, you can run up walls as high. in the end it's speed penalty says he won't be nearly as good as a normal warframe at acrobatics and hell if we compare it to a loki warframe which is faster than normal.

[Satori_Mind]

The idiocy runs high.

 

Really, don't compare acrobatics to aiming, one thing rellies on incredible precision of a combination of varied buttons to press while another is just moved the mouse around and click and again, doing acrobatics doesn't means you perform better. I can get to the end killing everything and without dying just as well someone who is the whole time leaping around like a monkey. they are different playstyles and one shouldn't be penalised over the other.

 

Also, Yes, Rhino can do acrobatics but it will be penalised with it's speed, you can't go as fast doing the wallruns, you can run up walls as high. in the end it's speed penalty says he won't be nearly as good as a normal warframe at acrobatics and hell if we compare it to a loki warframe which is faster than normal.

Aww, you don't have to be so mean.

 

Acrobatics require no special feats.  Only two buttons.  Hold sprint + jump and you stick to walls.  There's even an option to make it ONE button.  As for Rhino, I'll gladly follow any Loki all up and down the walls as him.  The big guy has polarity slots for Marathon and Quick Rest.

[Elhazzared]

Aww, you don't have to be so mean.

 

Acrobatics require no special feats.  Only two buttons.  Hold sprint + jump and you stick to walls.  There's even an option to make it ONE button.  As for Rhino, I'll gladly follow any Loki all up and down the walls as him.  The big guy has polarity slots for Marathon and Quick Rest.

 

Probably not but its the way you say things that just get me a pissed off.

 

Acrobatics require no speacial feats? ok jump tp awall, grab to run, do a jump to another wall sprint up it, do a backflip into another wall to do a wallrun, jump towards the enenmy, do a slide, doo a foward rollthen do another slide and then to a mellee slide attack followed up by power attack and then jump into the walls and go spiderman on it again. This requires a lot from a player to do it.

 

And please, I want to see you follow a loki going at 169% of sprint while you go at 65% (talking about maximum archieved on both). BTW, loki will probably noot have quick rest but it will have a degree of marathon as well. A rhino will not use sprint nor quick rest, maybe marathon on a relativelly low level but no more than that if you want to fully make use of your powers and tankyness.

[vieuxchat]

Why not giving 1 or 2 or 3 rank points for the mastery rank for each sliding kill, wallrun kill, headshots while running, etc.

[Satori_Mind]

Probably not but its the way you say things that just get me a &!$$ed off.

 

Acrobatics require no speacial feats? ok jump tp awall, grab to run, do a jump to another wall sprint up it, do a backflip into another wall to do a wallrun, jump towards the enenmy, do a slide, doo a foward rollthen do another slide and then to a mellee slide attack followed up by power attack and then jump into the walls and go spiderman on it again. This requires a lot from a player to do it.

 

And please, I want to see you follow a loki going at 169% of sprint while you go at 65% (talking about maximum archieved on both). BTW, loki will probably noot have quick rest but it will have a degree of marathon as well. A rhino will not use sprint nor quick rest, maybe marathon on a relativelly low level but no more than that if you want to fully make use of your powers and tankyness.

Nope.  No twisting of words, man.  I said follow, not keep up.  That would be stupid.

 

As for your cute little routine, yes.  I would absolutely do it and get a recording if there was such an arrangement in the current tileset.  There are few places where backflip to wallrun is possible AND is likely to have enemies present.  The truth is that kind of movement is almost entirely organic.  It isn't choreographed.  That's like me telling you to crouch, headshot a guy, switch weapons, put a burst at center mass in the next guy, then kill a third with a sprinting charge attack.  It's the kind of thing you do naturally because you're so familiar with all the individual steps.  Kind of like touch typing!  There's a point where you no longer think about the individual letters.  You'll begin thinking in words and full sentences because all the minutiae are now muscle memory.

 

You're not incapable of all this seemingly complex stuff.  You just haven't put in the practice.

[Elhazzared]

Nope.  No twisting of words, man.  I said follow, not keep up.  That would be stupid.

 

As for your cute little routine, yes.  I would absolutely do it and get a recording if there was such an arrangement in the current tileset.  There are few places where backflip to wallrun is possible AND is likely to have enemies present.  The truth is that kind of movement is almost entirely organic.  It isn't choreographed.  That's like me telling you to crouch, headshot a guy, switch weapons, put a burst at center mass in the next guy, then kill a third with a sprinting charge attack.  It's the kind of thing you do naturally because you're so familiar with all the individual steps.  Kind of like touch typing!  There's a point where you no longer think about the individual letters.  You'll begin thinking in words and full sentences because all the minutiae are now muscle memory.

 

You're not incapable of all this seemingly complex stuff.  You just haven't put in the practice.

 

Alright, keep up with then. Ther are places where if you don't have enough sprint speed you can't get to because you need to do a vertical run up a wall and your speed determines how far you can go up before you lose momentum. Now this is rare cases and this is getting to no places of significance. sure you can do horisontal wallruns just as well, you just take longer but you get to where you need as well. However the fact that you don't have as much means that the same movement to reach an enemy quickly and mellee it to death isn't possible. You can reach him but it will take you longer and by then the enemy might not be where you could reach with a stylish kill.

 

Also the difference in what you said to what I said is the keys used at the same time as well as the timeframe to do it. also, sorry about the muscle memory thing, not everyone has the same or can even archieve it no matter how much they try. I have a minimum amount. I can do few keys provided they are not jumbled up too close, in fact i don't even use WASD because then the buttons I use around for other stuff will always be confused. I use arrow keys, I use the delete, end, page down for stuff like reloading, the change weapon and so on. I use shift and ctrl for jump and crouch, I use keypad 0 to sprint. It's the only way I can get it work properly and let me you. It just doesn't works well with acrobatics. Sure I can do wallruns perfectly but certain flips and stuff? Heck even that S#&$ about infinite vertical wallrun you see you youtube? Forget it, it's compeltly impossible for me. thing is. With acrobatics and I mean real acrobatics, not minimalist stuff that anyone can do, timing is important, how fast you can move your fingers where needed, when to do stuff and if you miss to do something by a microsecond, then try again. Moving, crouching, firing, aiming. Sorry, that doesn't requires anything special at all.

 

I will agree it's organic, it's something that after you get used to then you can do it most times without a problem. But not everyone can do it, in fact the vast majority can't.

[PurpleHaze265]

holy macaroni, this thread exploded :D

 

I like Ronyns Idea of beeing more evasive when doing acrobatic stuff. I think the enemies are in general a little bit too "trained" expecially after the last patch with the ridiciuously fast Grineer Rifles. but thats a problem of the AI which is,(for a FTP Game) still the best I´ve seen so far allready.

 

I hope DE sees this thread and thinks about making Acrobatics more usefull.

[Satori_Mind]

But not everyone can do it, in fact the vast majority can't.

 

Now you're seriously reaching.  The vast majority, huh?  I'd have a hard time doing it too if I had my controls scattered all over no-man's land on my keyboard.  That's like entering a 3-legged beagle in a dog show.  It's not my problem that you're handicapping yourself.

 

Think about the complexity of the stuff you're already doing.  Especially the hand-eye coordination required to aim while managing your weapons.  Chaining vertical runs?  All you do is rotate your view 180 degrees.  That's really it.

[Elhazzared]

They are useful for dodging. I just don't agree with giving bonus for using it.