[SUG] Compilation of Feedback, Ideas and Suggestions

[The-Blacksmith]

TABLE OF CONTENTS

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Introduction

1. Lore

1.1 The Story

1.2 In Game Cinematics

2. Gameplay

2.1 The Tutorial

2.2 Combat Tweaks

2.3 Warframes

2.4 Maps

2.5 PvP

3. Misc

3.1 Player Ship

3.2 Trading

3.3 Platinum

4. TL;DR

5. Outtro

6. Changelog

---

Introduction

Hello! As you can no doubt read from the little box to the left, my tag is Lionsbane, and as you can no doubt guess from being on these forums, I'm playing the closed beta of Warframes! Yay! Woo!

As a preface for this post, I'd like to say that I'm really enjoying this game thus far. I wouldn't go so far as to say I love it, but only because I haven't played enough of it to judge that, and the game is, after all, in closed beta. What I can say is that I enjoy it and believe it shows heaps of promise.

That being said, as it is closed beta, there are things that I, and many others no doubt, believe could be tweaked, added in, taken away, yadda yadda yadda, all in the name of improving upon and ultimately realising the potential this game has.

This post, therefore, is intended to be a list of changes that I believe will enrich the game. To clarify, I do not believe that all of these ideas should be implemented as a whole, nor that this is the only way in which to take the game. All this is, is a compilation of ideas (some entirely my own, some seemingly shared with others, some even inspired by others - I've tried to give credit where credit is due!) designed to provide feedback and generate discussion of the game and the direction in which it is(should?) go.

So, without further ado..!

1. Lore

Lore is a key part to most games these days, whether it simply be in setting and immersion, or whether it be a vast, epic tale woven across hours of gameplay, Lore is King. For a game of this genre (Sci-Fi MMOTPS), I'd argue that Lore is a crucial aspect.

1.1 The Story

Thus far, we have solid foundations for the lore - you are one of the few survivors of an ancient race of warriors that have been awoken from centuries of cryo sleep to combat the corrupt Grineer, vicious and mutated descendants of the human race. At your disposal are unique Warframes, exo-skeletons that provide you with varying powers with which to decimate your foes.

What a great setup! But...then what? There is little elaboration on the lore thus far. Either that, or I'm missing it, which given my predisposition towards lore would indicate that it's too well hidden. I honestly think that this game is missing out on a veritable mine of lore gold. Perhaps its just because the devs haven't gotten round to it yet, but either way, I'd like to discuss it.

There are a myriad of ways in which to take the story. Why were the Tenno put in stasis? Why have they lost their memories? Who is Lotus and why - and how - did she awaken the Tenno? How did she find them to awaken? Are the Grineer the only descendents of the human race? If so, how did the human race turn into such mindless, violent tyrants? We know they began cloning, and it's caused physiological degradations over the generetions, but is this the reason for the psychological degradation? Did they begin nobly and honestly with the cloning, and it has become their downfall? If they are not the only descendents, where are the others? Who are the enigmatic Corpus, and what is their agenda? So many questions that could be answered in a myriad of ways.

I'm assuming, here, that DE already have a lore-store that they intend to use to further the story at a later date. If you do, care to shed some light, or at least tell us when you will be expanding the lore? If you don't, are there any plans to develop it in the future? Although it may sound like a plug, I know I, for one, would love to work on lore like this, and I do have a history in writing!

1.2 In-Game Cinematics

I imagine these aren't in because of other development concerns, and certainly these should be one of the last things to be implemented prior to release. That being said, I believe it is important to highlight this, and stress that in game cinematics would greatly improve immersion. I'm talking pre-mission cinematics (perhaps on your player ship, see 3.1!), post-mission cinematics, and mid-mission cinematics. Imagine you're on an assassination mission. As you select it, a short cinematic plays that has Lotus giving you a low down on the target and location, telling you why this target must die, and how you can do it. Then, when you actually come across him in game, a short cinematic where he taunts you, or you confront him and he gets furious that you've made it this far. Then at the end of the mission, you depart, successful, and we see the beheaded corpse of your target as you jet off.

To clarify - these cut-scenes would be entirely skippable for those that do not wish to watch them, and for those repeating (farming) the mission that have already seen them. There could also be a check box to automatically skip all cut scenes, should one be so inclined. Also, these cut scenes would not be for -every- mission, only those deemed noteworthy enough to the lore and the story (such as assassination missions!).

2. Gameplay

It goes without saying, you can have the best looking game in the world, with the most in depth story in the world, but if the gameplay is lackluster, it's going to fail. Fortunately, Warframes already has very solid and entertaining gameplay, so I believe it can only get better.

2.1 The Tutorial

This partially ties into Lore. The tutorial currently in game is very bare bones. It gives you the utmost basic controls and nothing else. There is little to no immersion, and practically no easily followed guide to both the lobby UI and the in game UI. I propose that the Tutorial be overhauled to be a more cinematic, mission style format, going from when you are first awoken, with Lotus guiding you as you get your bearings from all that time in cryo sleep (movement guide here, for instance), throw them into a combat scenario (ambush?), giving simple instructions on the use of weapons (sight aiming, hip fire, crouch, jump, roll, flip, slide, melee, changing weapons, special abilities, so on and so forth) and the combat UI (here is your health, here is your shield, here is your power, yadda yadda yadda), and finally finishing with menu navigation (perhaps via your personal ship, see 3.1!).

CREDIT: Thorkoal had similar ideas in his thread at https://forums.warfr...frame-overhaul/ , an excellent post with many excellent ideas.

2.2 Combat Tweaks

I find combat to be surprisingly fluid for a closed beta game. There are, however, some improvements that could, and should be made to round out the system.

Firstly, melee could be better developed. I rarely find myself spamming normal melee attacks, instead going for an insta-gib charge attack. There should be some more incentive and fluidity to normal attacks, and in that vein, I recommend combo chains and directional attacks. By that, I mean left+melee, you cut to the left, right+melee, you cut to the right, forward+melee is a stab, back+melee is a rising cut, crouch+melee is a leg sweep, jump+melee is an overhead (that if not hitting a target, does the current ground stomp), etc. This can lead you to some advanced, higher damage combos that, if anything just look freaking badass - but they should also be competitive with charge-gib.

CREDIT: Kuja, https://forums.warfr...ntand-movement/ , similar idea(s) and Astrobird https://forums.warfr...elee-diversity/ for his thread on melee combos.

It'd be nice if you are currently equipping a pistol to be able to quickly chain melee and pistol attacks together (perhaps not with dual skanas). This gives more value and use to the pistol itself (which I feel is largely outshined by your primary). Plus, bonus badass points!

Grabs and throws would also be a good addition, allowing you to take a human shield in a choke hold, throw some down (or into other enemies!) and so on. It adds further tactical options, particularly for those that want to roll melee and be in the thick of it. It also fits the space ninja theme!

CREDIT: Kuja, https://forums.warfr...ntand-movement/ , his idea inspired me here.

Finishers - this is entirely an aesthetic thing, but I do so love finishing moves/executions, a la Darksiders. So much fun, and just so sexy to look at!

CREDIT: Kuja (and everyone that loves this kinda stuff!), https://forums.warfr...ntand-movement/

We should also see a wider variety and utility for melee weapons, with thematic usage. There's very little to differentiate so far. Add things like hammers and/or axes, polearms, concussion blasters etc, and differentiate the base stats and special abilities. Fists with stun chance, daggers fast attack, hammers with knockback, etc. Make the melee weapon choice more meaningful than aesthetics.

CREDIT: Astrobird https://forums.warfr...diversity/��has a much more detailed look at this suggestion in his thread.

2.3 Warframes

Currently, there is very little to differentiate the warframes. In fact, the ONLY thing to differentiate the Warframes, are their powers. For some, this is enough, but I'd argue that there needs to be something more. First off, each Warframe should have differing base stats that better reflect their description. For instance, Volt is basically described as a caster, and should thus have more base energy, but lower health, armour or shields. Rhino is essentially a close combat tanky bruiser, and should have higher health, armour or shields, but lower damage or energy. Excalibur should have balanced stats, so on and so forth. I'm not talking to the degree where each Warframe is pidgeon-holed into one style or role of play, but so that there is a difference that the player can then develop in his own way - you could use the base tankiness and the powers of the Rhino and then skill/mod focus on damage to make a real bruiser, or you could focus on the natural power spammage of the Volt and build defensive, utilising your shield to become a caster tank. So on and so forth. There should be a reason other than "Oh, that's a flashy ability on that Warframe - or even worse, that Warframe has a ridiculously OP power and no other drawbacks compared to this, so I'll roll with that" to pick up a Warframe. Especially considering the time and effort required to gain them outside of buying platinum.

Powers also need a change. With the current system, it seems that at lower levels, you're largely restricted to using your abilities a handful of times per mission, having to save it for clutch scenarios, whereas at high levels, with Energy Siphon, you can spam to your hearts content! I don't know if today's nerfs to stacking stats has changed this, but if it hasn't something needs to. There should not be such a disparity between power usage across the levels. Also, certain Warframes (Volt, Ember, etc) are advertised as essentially casters, yet until Energy Siphon spam, you are basically running and gunning like everyone else, with the odd clutch power use. I don't know if this is intended or not, but I do think it's a negative thing.

So, in that vein, I believe energy or powers (or both) need to be changed to allow more even use across the levels. Not so you sit there spamming powers all the time, but so you can use at least your basic powers every other engagement. There are a few ways of doing this - allow natural energy regeneration (with mods?), reduce power costs but add cooldowns are just two possible ways.

CREDIT: TheRealTuna https://forums.warfr...nd-power-usage/ had the same basic idea, and some of his suggested solutions inspired me.

I also think that skill trees need a look at. Currently, when you've maxed out your Warframe level, you have enough points to get all skills in the tree. The only variety is that you may have selected them in a different order while levelling. To me, this is nothing more than pseudo-customisation. Why bother with skill points if they are all literally going to be the same at the end? Why not just have passive stat boosts on level, and Mod slots that can be unlocked at specific levels? It amounts to the same thing.

I do not believe that is the solution, however. Instead, I think that the skill trees should be expanded upon with more paths with which to go down, but with ultimately too many slots and not enough points to max the tree out. This then makes the player choose - do I want to go down the trees that contain more damage dealing points, more defensive, more power, etc etc etc. THIS is customisation.

So with these changes, you pick a Warframe, based off what kind of base stats and powers you want to work with, then you choose how to specialise your Warframe with skill points, and THEN you choose how to mod your Warframe further. True diversity, without the redundancy.

2.4 Maps

Honourary mention for Maps and Level Design here, as it's obviously something that has been broached before, and the Devs have stated that it is one of their high priorities, but yes, more maps! More environs! Diversity!

I'm totally on board with planetside missions, low/zero grav missions, space stations rather than ships, cave systems, and pretty much anything that diversifies and thus enriches the playing experience. Also: more levels within the maps! Go higher, or go deeper, lets get more angles of fire and cover positions. <3

2.5 PvP

Ah, the dreaded PvP discussion. This tends to polarise people a LOT. I'm mentioning it here for two reasons - firstly, after consideration I DON'T think that this game needs serious esport PvP a la DM/TDM/CTF/Arena/etc. The balance issues would be an absolute nightmare, and PvP balance changes would reflect poorly on PvE, not to mention it would take a lot of the financial and man power away from the rest of the game. So no, I don't think this should be implemented.

HOWEVER. I do believe something small, like 1v1 duels should be allowed. Nothing that is organised or advertised, no ladders, no rankings, no loot, no nothing. All it is is two people going for a bit of a shoot out (or slash out or nuke out) at each other. Perhaps even make it something you can only challenge your contacts list with. Or make it so people can advertise a lobby for 1v1s. Just don't put any focus or incentive on it and do not put any balance around it, only have it there for "something to do for a break and a bit of fun" and to have "bragging rights" about.

Another alternative is something akin to Left 4 Deads Versus mode - where players form normal lobbys where they do the missions as standard, but there is a check to allow players in enemy slots. This would allow other people to join games as members of the opposing faction (Grineer, Corpus, Infected) and fight against the Tenno players as they attempt to perform their objective. I don't think there should be levelling of enemy units, like you have with your Warframes, it's just something you can hop into for a break from the norm and a bit of fun. You'd play as normal grunts (respawning as another when that one was killed), with the chance to spawn as one of the heavy units, etc. This would add an unknown element to PvE play, as well as cater - without any balance issues - to PvP play as well.

CREDIT: KikasG https://forums.warfr...ons-for-future/ , saw the idea here first after being linked it in this thread by Nocturo.

Another alternative is an "Invader" mode, wherein a player can "Invade" anothers game (within a level range) and work with the enemies to attempt to halt the player(s) from achieving their objective. There are restraints and rewards to this idea, and the full description can be found in this post https://forums.warfr...ons/#entry21176 by Astrobird on this thread. Whilst I am undecided on this suggestion, it's thorough enough to warrant a mention. Bear in mind that this suggestion would likely have balance issues, as you would be using your own Warframe. My own personal take would be so you have a standard "Invader" unit, kind of like a buffed heavy unit, that you spawn as and can try take down the other players. This would be preferable to your own Warframe and the resulting balance issues.

CREDIT: Astrobird

3. Misc

Herein lies all those topics that were not extensive enough to warrant it's own grouping.

3.1 Player Ship

We need player ships. Seriously. Give us it. There are so many benefits to it, namely starting with immersion. Being able to log in and walk around your ship, interacting with the solar map, the market terminal, the foundry unit, the arsenal, Lotus and whatever else you can think of just puts you right in there in the place of your character, and draws you in. It's a brilliantly simple addition that greatly enriches the play experience. You could even add customisation options, allowing you to upgrade, or redecorate, or furnish, or whatever. Look at SWTOR - I know that game bummed out in so many ways (and I was soooooo looking forward to it), the two things they did perfectly (for me) were the class storylines and the player ship. I could easily spend hours on that ship doing practically nothing as I walked around and browsed my stuff. It was great.

CREDIT: mreskimoeqib https://forums.warfr...personal-space/ & Thorkoal https://forums.warfr...frame-overhaul/ both covered this suggestion as well, and both have great ideas.

3.2 Trading

I really think that trading needs to be in this game. There should be a tab on the market where players can buy and sell items from each other for in game currency (NOT PLATINUM!). At the very least, mods, blueprints and materials should be tradeable, but there's an argument for making Warframes and Weapons tradeable as well (possibly including all mods and affinity upgrades, but this doesn't gel too well with the affinity theme...perhaps just make them revert to unranked when sold). The reasoning behind this is that the loot system is already random, so farming for that one perfect rolled mod, or that one blueprint, or those materials you need can be a very tiresome chore, but more than that it can be incredibly frustrating when you are farming with friends and they get the very mod/blueprint you need and then just vendor trash it because they don't need it and can't do anything else with it.

I sincerely hope some kind of trading/auction house system is being considered.

3.3 Platinum

Firstly, let me say that I do actually really like F2P games with micro-transactions involved. I think it's a great business model, and it allows me, as a player, to never have to worry about not being able to play because of my financial situation, and when I'm flush with cash, I can splash out to enrich my experience further. It's great.

BUT. Micro-transactions need to remain purely cosmetic or convenient. They should not be "pay to win", where you have to spend RL cash to get the best of the best item wise. The recent change to "Pro" versions of weapons from pay only to blueprints was a great change, and that's the kind of business strategy you should stick to.

It's entirely fine that you can pay for Warframes with real cash, because you can also grind for them in game. The same goes for weapons. What would not be fine is paying for the best Warframe there is, with no other alternate means of gaining it.

Things that could be added to platinum purchases - alt skins (both Warframe and Weapons), furnishings for your player ship, alternate/upgraded player ships, alternate Contact (Lotus), etc etc. Also, keep the convenience things like Credit/Affinity Boosters and Revive refills. Those are all great things to have as platinum purchases.

4. TL;DR

- Develop Lore and Story futher, giving more interaction and cinematic cutscenes

- Expand and improve the Tutorial

- Expand upon melee combat with directional attacks and combos/pistol combos

- Grabs and Throws

- Finishers/Executions

- Differentiate (without pidgeon-holing) the Warframes, so there is a reason beyond powers to choose one

- Change the energy system so it doesn't go from very sparing use of powers at low levels to non-stop spam at high levels

- Expand the skill trees with more paths, making it so max level WFs cant max all the skills, thus giving variety and real choice

- More Maps! More Environs!

- PvP in the form of 1v1 duels, with no ranking or rewards or incentives other than something to break the grind, or lord over your friends

- Player ships with which to interact with the world (solar map, market, foundry, arsenal, Lotus, etc)

- Player to Player trading and Auction House for at least Mods, Blueprints and Materials, possibly for WFs and Weapons

- Keep Platinum purely for cosmetic and/or convenience purchases. Do not allow the game to be Pay to Win.

5. Outtro

Well, that's all for the moment. I look forward to hearing any feedback on any of the suggestions, both from the community and from the devs. I'd love for this to spawn a true discussion on the game, and hopefully aid in leading to a brilliant finished product. If you have any genuine suggestions, feel free to post them in this thread, and if I or the community likes them, then I can add it into this post and credit it! (Also, if you believe I've not credited you where relevant, it's not on purpose. Just give me a shout and I'll try keep it up-to-date!)

Thanks for your time!

6. Changelog

- 12/01/13 03:41AM GMT

Added Invader mode suggestion to 2.5 PvP, courtesy of KikasG

- 12/01/13 00:25AM GMT

Added Melee Weapon diversification to 2.2 Combat Tweaks, courtesy of Astrobird

- 11/01/13 22:34PM GMT

Added alternate "Alien Mode" to 2.5 PvP, courtesy of KikasG

- 11/01/13 03:35AM GMT

Added clarification to 1.2 In-Game Cinematics

- 11/01/13 03:28AM GMT

Added "Outtro" section

- 11/01/13 03:23AM GMT

Edited for formatting

Edited January 13, 2013 by Lionsbane

[MegatechBody]

Please tell me more about how why I should be watching a video game instead of playing it. If you've ever played the early Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon games there is a sweet loadout screen that allows you to get mission information, mess with mission planning, get objectives, and pick your gear loadout before heading out. It's interactive, as in what video games are. Interactive entertainment.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody

[The-Blacksmith]

I really hope you didn't just get as far as "In-game cinematics", decided you didn't like the idea, then disregarded the rest of the post :(

As to your question - you're engaging in reductio ad absurdum (I watched that episode of Big Bang Theory last night, so sue me). You would not be "watching" a video game. There would be certain cut scenes that add depth and immersion into the story and thus the experience of the game. It also goes without saying (though I can put it in if you want me to) that said cut-scenes would be easily skippable (as current mini cut-scenes in game already are), and they could even implement a cut-scene check box, so you can automatically skip them all, should you be so inclined.

EDIT: Added in clarification in original post.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Lionsbane

[The-Blacksmith]

Shameless bump to first page before I go to bed!

[The-Blacksmith]

So I'm bumping again, if only to try and get some more feedback and discussion going. I think at least some of these points hold strong merit.

[MegatechBody]

So I'm bumping again, if only to try and get some more feedback and discussion going. I think at least some of these points hold strong merit.

Yeah well if they did you'd get more replies stop bumping your own thread more than once every few days or so it reeks of self-importance. Sorry you nor I are special snowflakes, hate to break it to you.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MegatechBody

[JasonN36]

Not much of an information, but I found out that the Tenno, are named after Hayden Tenno of Dark Sector... Mayber there's a connection or something. :>

EDIT: Maybe not named, but coincidentally, the same name... :>

Edited January 11, 2013 by JasonN36

[The-Blacksmith]

Yeah well if they did you'd get more replies stop bumping your own thread more than once every few days or so it reeks of self-importance. Sorry you nor I are special snowflakes, hate to break it to you.

Y'know, you've got a pretty terrible attitude. There's absolutely no need nor call for you to automatically be passive aggressive to everyone on these forums. But hey, some people get off on being like that, so each to their own.

And given how many threads pop up on this forum section alone, and how rapidly threads can fall off the first page or two, I don't think a bump a day is all that "self important". Nor do I think, Mr. Durden, that I am a unique and special snowflake. Stop projecting.

Not much of an information, but I found out that the Tenno, are named after Hayden Tenno of Dark Sector... Mayber there's a connection or something. :>

EDIT: Maybe not named, but coincidentally, the same name... :>

That's definitely interesting. I'll have to look that up when I get chance. Thanks!

[Lumures]

Wow, I'm impressed. Well written, thought out and clear feedback and suggestions.

I agree with basically everything you've mentioned but just my personal opinion: I'm not a fan of duels

I suppose it's one of those things that you either love or hate so maybe it'll be received well.

If there was some other kind of PvP, the skill sets could be modified into a PvP-only version of the skills that have been tweaked into being... less deadly. I don't usually like making examples but Guild Wars 1 (yes the first one) has PvP versions of skills that would normally be too effective in PvP combat.

P.S. I actually did read the entire thing so don't think your efforts went to waste :)

[The-Blacksmith]

Wow, I'm impressed. Well written, thought out and clear feedback and suggestions.

I agree with basically everything you've mentioned but just my personal opinion: I'm not a fan of duels

I suppose it's one of those things that you either love or hate so maybe it'll be received well.

If there was some other kind of PvP, the skill sets could be modified into a PvP-only version of the skills that have been tweaked into being... less deadly. I don't usually like making examples but Guild Wars 1 (yes the first one) has PvP versions of skills that would normally be too effective in PvP combat.

P.S. I actually did read the entire thing so don't think your efforts went to waste :)

Thank you for taking the time to read it all and give genuine feedback! :)

As for PvP, I honestly think that's always going to be the most controversial topic for a game like this. I normally advocate PvP, as I do so love it, but with this game, I've given it some thought and given the resources (both financial and manpower) that would need to be dedicated purely to PvP, I think it would detract from the game as a whole should DM/TDM/etc be brought in. Even if they have "PvP versions" of abilities, that still requires a team to constantly tweak and balance them.

It's a difficult subject to broach and truly come to a conclusion on.

[Nocturo]

As for PvP, I honestly think that's always going to be the most controversial topic for a game like this.

IMHO, so far the ALIEN MODE was by far one of the best suggestions that were made for PvP here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3021-some-suggestions-for-future/

[Nocturo]

Concerning lore & in-game cinematincs, although I myself would like to have them here, something that would help me delve into this universe, like reading a book & not just mindlessly killing anything that moves, but I think it's too early to work on that right now. Or, to put it simpler: game mechanics come first... if I had to choose what dev's would be doing next I'd say everything that has to do with gameplay (like special abilities, drops, warframe upgrades & differences etc.).

Well thought out overall post though... I like many ideas you came up with, a treasure chest for the dev's here :)

[JasonN36]

Some of the lore are in this thread..

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/220-warframe-lore/

[The-Blacksmith]

Concerning lore & in-game cinematincs, although I myself would like to have them here, something that would help me delve into this universe, like reading a book & not just mindlessly killing anything that moves, but I think it's too early to work on that right now. Or, to put it simpler: game mechanics come first... if I had to choose what dev's would be doing next I'd say everything that has to do with gameplay (like special abilities, drops, warframe upgrades & differences etc.).

Well thought out overall post though... I like many ideas you came up with, a treasure chest for the dev's here :)

Oh definitely. The order I put things in was completely arbitrary. I think I put somewhere that lore stuff would be something to work on as a final priority before release, whilst current priorities should be (and are!) gameplay/mechanics/etc.

Thanks for the compliment :)

Some of the lore are in this thread..

https://forums.warfr...-warframe-lore/

Sweet! I'll give that a read :)

[The-Blacksmith]

IMHO, so far the ALIEN MODE was by far one of the best suggestions that were made for PvP here: https://forums.warfr...ons-for-future/

Just had a read over, and looks like a pretty nifty idea - kind of like Left 4 Dead Versus modes. I'd approve that idea, although probably tweaked a bit. I'll put a version in my post and comment in that fella's thread. Thanks for the link!

[The-Blacksmith]

Further addition, courtesy of Astrobird, on melee weapon diversification.

[astrobird]

I also had a concept on how pop could work, so if you want I can post it in this thread after I get out of work.

[The-Blacksmith]

I also had a concept on how pop could work, so if you want I can post it in this thread after I get out of work.

That's fine by me. I'm happy to add in any ideas other people have and give credit for it - the thread is aimed at being a compendium of ideas rather than just "LOOK AT ME I MADE COOL IDEAS ADD THEM". :)

[astrobird]

Back from work and I just copied this from the .doc I had. I deleted the last thread becaue I was told that a lot of people were already harping about this. Moving on:

===============================================

A prior thread gave me an epiphany, wherein I discovered how we could have PvP and PvE and not be so divided on the issue.

We run this hizzle like the Souls series, ladies and gents!

For those of you unfamiliar with the souls series version of PvP, allow me to briefly explain.

In the Souls games, players can invade others while progressing through a level. During this invasion, one player (the red phantom) has to fight the host player (the host) in the ring of honor that is pretty much the stage you are locked into.

The Invader can use enemies, equipment, envionmental hzards to their advantage, but they can't heal.

The Host has access to the objective (whereupon completing said objective boots the invader and claims victory for the host) as well as the assistance of his associates who are playing alongside him.

This could work REALLY WELL for Warframe (with minor tweaks, of course)

The warframe invasions would work similarly.

Add in a 4th option for the mode tab called 'Sabotage'

When a player selects sabotage, their frame will gain a distinct red and black glow on it, driving the point home that you are not a happy camper and you are most certainly NOT selling girlscout cookies (and the thin mints are sold out)

During this mode, you can see specific areas IN YOUR LEVEL RANGE where people are congregating. During which you can pop in and spawn in along with an enemy horde. Upon succefful insertion, the host will recieve notification that you have picked his unlucky game to take a massive poop on only AFTER it is far too late. The host will then be barred from exiting unless he wishes to incur a penalty (probably a credit fine or a EXP fine)

While invading another player's game, the invader gets a little buff for every party member the host has with him

-Solo Host = 1.0 multiplier to Shields and HP

-1 Party Member = 1.3x to Shields and HP

-2 Party Members = 1.4x to Shields and 1.8 to HP

-3 Party members = 1.6x to Shields and 2.5 to HP

The Invader has absolutely NO MEANS of recovering HP, but he can work with the enemies in the level to kill one member of the host's party.

The point of the invader is to add in a bit of spice to the host's experience as well as a little bit of heart wrenching defeat for good measure.

But what of victory?

Victory conditions:

For the Invader:

Minimum Conditions: Kill 1 member of the Host's party and survive for 5 additional seconds without taking damage

(Upon getting the kill and after the 5 second cooldown period, a window will pop up asking if the invader wishes to depart. More on this later)

For the Host:

Minimum Conditions:

Complete one (1) of the following

-Complete the Stage objective

-Sucessfully extract from stage

-Invader HP reaches 0

Now for a bit of nitty gritty:

:Let's say the invader got the drop on the host's good buddy TAR1 and downed him successfully. The CD period has passed, and TAR1 was revived, but where is the invader?

The invader chose to remain. When the invader chooses to remain, he not only gets his buff reduced, but he doesn;t recover from the escapade. His HP remains at what it was. but instea, he gets 100 flat energy to his name.

If the invader were to perform a sweep, in which he kills the entire host's party, then he would receive a massive credit and exp boost. If he were to fail after continuing, his rewards would be diminished like so:

Assume you get 10000 credits for one kill (Not the actual amount, but it's easier to see the changes in gains with a nice flat number like 10k)

1 kill - 10000

1 kill, then dies after continuing - 7500

2 Kill - 25000

2 Kill, then dies after continuing - 8000

3 Kill - 40000

3Kill, then dies after continuing - 9000

4Kill - 75000

With this system, the skilled are rewarded, but the risk taking and unlucky are show the price of their greed.

At this point you may be asking, "But astrobird, what is the price for invading people? How can I be assured my &amp;#&#33; is not cleaved in twain?"

Well those are excellent questions.

For the price of being a massive jerk-bag, I'm going to go with weapon decay.

Invasions cause passive changes to your character, such as reduced exp from PKs, reduced drops, and even weapon decay if done often enough. 

To further explain lets compare three joes.

JoeA - Plays exculsively PvE

JoeB - Alternates between PvE and PvP

JoeC - Plays exclusively PvP

Their exp gains will be similar, but JoeC will have the hardest time leveling up weapons. Every time he is stopped from killing someone in an invasion, his weapon decays in EXP, perhaps even dropping it to a previous level. But JoeB who has determined that moderation is key, can reap the benefits of PvP's increased gains and PvE's increased drops. JoeA is just us right now, forever grinding for that one part.

As for keeping butthurt to a minimum, there would be three methods of keeping the newbies in check and the pros on their toes.

1) Keeping level restrictions in place. Despite Warframe being a skillbased game for the most part, you really can't ignore that levels simply provide an edge in combat. A significant edge. As such, you can only be Sabotaged by someone within 5 levels of your current level, or 7 levels of your party average.

2) Cooldowns for sabotage. Say you just barely escaped the violating tendrils of a Saboteur by zapping the n*gga on the spot. You strike a victory pose, and then are promptly Sabotaged AGAIN. This is simply unacceptable. As such, you can only be Sabotaged TWICE in a mission, with a five minute cooldown between invasions.

3) A priority list: users who have been killed via Saboteurs an inordinate amount of times (by comparison) will receive the special priviledge of being offered the Encryption Datamass. This item will bar every first and second invasion attempt, and give a 1.15x buff to the player during an invasion, until they successfully end the life of a Saboteur. After ending the life of one, the item is consumed and the user is put back into queue for another disaster.

Sure the methods aren't perfect, but it's a start on PvP.

To put it short, let's map out the Pros and Cons of each mode.

PvE:

-Item Drops

-Constant EXP gain

-Bro-Op

PvP:

-Increased Credit gain

-Competitive

-Thrill of the Hunt

Of course you can turn this option off in your early levels, but if you want this system to be attractive, it would behoove DE to force it on players. Sure you'll incur a few tears here and there, but this is how you get your heart racing, and how you get people addicted to the potentially high octane antics of warframe.

Any questions or concerns? And if you got this far, nice job there!

=================================

 

I also have a thing on funky fresh moves for your silent killer

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/2997-permission-to-boogie-down-sir/

Edited January 12, 2013 by astrobird

[The-Blacksmith]

That's definitely an interesting idea, and I've included a brief description and a link to your post in my OP.

My main gripe with the idea, however, is inherent balance issues. Presumably, you are using your own Warframe/Weapons/Mods as the Invader? If so, this means that imbalances between Warframes/Weapons will directly affect this PvP aspect, and will require a dedicated team - which is something I don't think this game should have. I'd much prefer the Invader style of you becoming an actual enemy unit(s) during the level.

Also, there would have to be a tick box on whether to allow Invaders or not, otherwise it's basically griefing.

[The-Blacksmith]

Bump!

[Cademus]

I'd much prefer the Invader style of you becoming an actual enemy unit(s) during the level.

Agreed. I think that would be a fun alternative. Though I think there should still be a method of rewards, even if you are unsuccessful at stopping the Tenno. Affinity, perhaps? though there needs to be more benifits from that besides weapon unlocks I think.