Game Punishes You For Having Fun

[Mast3rr]

If a player finds a favorite warframe and weapons, he is punished for using those weapons if they hit level 30 because he is not upgrading his mastery rank. The game literally punishes you for using weapons that you enjoy. I had friends grind out weapons that they hated....just to get their mastery higher.

How to fix this so the game doesn't punish you for using weapons that you actually enjoy? Make mastery rank go up strictly by gaining XP. That way people will try weapons because they want to try them....not be forced to use weapons that they may not like.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Mast3rr

[Poochy]

Wouldn't say punishes you for having fun, would say it more rewards you for exploring the game.

[Dubhlainn]

You always have the option of buying the weapon over again and ranking it up again.

 

The intent of Mastery is to have you master all the frames and all the weapons. Sometimes you get suprised by a weapon after you give it some time and rank it up a bit. What you didn't think you would like can end up being a new favorite.

 

Currently, you really only need to get to Mastery level 4 or so to unlock all the weapons and frames. This is pretty easy to do with very few different weapons/frames being ranked.

 

-Dub

[LoRDxDeMoN]

You always have the option of buying the weapon over again and ranking it up again.

 

No, they fixed that exploit a long time ago.

[Mast3rr]

Wouldn't say punishes you for having fun, would say it more rewards you for exploring the game.

 

I think players should be able to explore the game themselves instead of having something to make them HAVE to use different warframes / weapons. Currently the game is a grind / farm. That IS the game, so there's nothing stopping me from exploring the frames / weapons. However whats horrible is if you spend time/money in grabbing a weapon that you hate and are forced to use it to gain mastery. Its sort of the "hey I built this and it took X hours...I just need to suck it up and lvl it". I remember when I tried the sicarus.....

[Krinje]

Wouldn't say punishes you for having fun, would say it more rewards you for exploring the game.

 

Then what is the reward for finding something you like? I see the incentive to get people to branch out and try things, and even spend money on the game too. When I find my favorite frame, and my favorite set of weapons, what can I do with them? The answer is not much, there isn't any content for "mastered" frames and weapons right now.

[Mbgunsling]

Punishes you for having fun.

Mastery ranks=fun

Trying to get through levels and challenge yourself=not fun

You're playing wrong.

[Zyfe3rX]

After a player hits level 30, he should be given an option to RESET it to level 1.

By doing this, the status of the weapon should increase.

 

Max ammo,

Clip size

Damage,

 

and / or more polarity choices!

[Zarvok]

I understand where you're coming from. When I began playing I loved my Volt and the Braton. After they hit 30 I switched to a different frame and weapon along with my pistols and what not. I have found other weapons I love but again they hit 30 and I felt I had to put them aside again. Maybe with the "prestige mode" they were talking about in the live stream this issue will be less of an issue.

[Dasmir]

After a player hits level 30, he should be given an option to RESET it to level 1.

By doing this, the status of the weapon should increase.

 

Max ammo,

Clip size

Damage,

 

and / or more polarity choices!

 

The game is already too easy ...

[Krinje]

The solution is not prestige ranks... prestige = more grinding, the answer is not more grinding easy content. We need HARD content you can only do on a level 30 frame that gives rewards equivalent to its difficulty.

[ValhaHazred]

The Devs said in the livestream that you would be able to reset your ranks and change a polarity when you did so. This is coming in version 8 I believe.

[neKroMancer]

The Devs said in the livestream that you would be able to reset your ranks and change a polarity when you did so. This is coming in version 8 I believe.

^ This, watch the livestream guys. Lots of information about it but the ETA isn't fixed yet. DE talked about giving something for lv30 frame/weapon to do.

[Ghobe]

^ This, watch the livestream guys. Lots of information about it but the ETA isn't fixed yet. DE talked about giving something for lv30 frame/weapon to do.

I do hope the prestige system isn't the only thing though...

[krisp]

This just in: lack of a reward still qualifies as punishment.

[XxCromatxX]

The game is still in beta guys, open beta, but still none the less, it's still beta. Just give it time i say.

[Sensubox]

For now i havent actually felt like grinding new weapons is killing it for me. Hell i even came to love certain weapons i hated!

As the others said it challenges you to try new things and experiment with things. Try to make the most of it instead of resenting it^^

[Imbaland]

What is the punishment in not getting mastery ranks?

[DataShade]

I understand where you're coming from. When I began playing I loved my Volt and the Braton. After they hit 30 I switched to a different frame and weapon along with my pistols and what not. I have found other weapons I love but again they hit 30 and I felt I had to put them aside again. Maybe with the "prestige mode" they were talking about in the live stream this issue will be less of an issue.

 

 

How do you know it's your favorite unless you've played all of them - and not just a nibble, I mean play them long enough to have enough mod capacity to outfit them decently?  Jesus, I feel even more like a parent than I do at home, but at least I don't have to censor myself when I say it this time:

 

EAT YOUR GODDAMN VEGETABLES.

[Xariann]

The game is still in beta guys, open beta, but still none the less, it's still beta. Just give it time i say.

 

Okay so that means we shouldn't make suggestions to make sure it's polished when it's out of beta?

[neKroMancer]

Okay so that means we shouldn't make suggestions to make sure it's polished when it's out of beta?

 

Suggestion is good. Got any?

[Xariann]

For now i havent actually felt like grinding new weapons is killing it for me. Hell i even came to love certain weapons i hated!

As the others said it challenges you to try new things and experiment with things. Try to make the most of it instead of resenting it^^

I'll talk about a game that is often mentioned when some web site reviews Warframe: Mass Effect 3, specifically the multiplayer section. Now, I played hundreds of hours just in the multiplayer without counting the single player campaign.

One day they decided to introduce challenges. So to get enough challenge points you had to try different weapons. I did it for a while, got a decent number of challenge points. However after a bit I thought, "I keep having to use these weapons that are total crap and that is killing the fun of the game for me."It feels good when you can get a decent result with (what you could consider) a crap weapon, but after a while it can get tiring.

So I decided to disregard the challenges. On top of that, my N7 rank doesn't increase. Why? Because I play only Gold and Platinum these days and I don't really want to play those with a level 1 character, as the N7 rank only increases when your individual characters' ranks increase. And I don't want to play bronze or silver to relevel them. So here I pointed out a few flaws in the current game design in terms of levelling just by showing you what another game did.

Their solution to reset frame ranks will do the same thing as well, yeah ok, you can increase your mastery ranks, but if I want to play on some harder planets it will suck.On the other hand challenges gave people a reason to do things, so I wouldn't want the devs to take them off the game, but I don't want to be forced to play them either.

There just has to be some other way to allow your mastery to progress. Maybe keep earning exp so that it does progress even though frames and weapons don't. Put in challenges so if people WANT to master everything they get another sense of progression, but it's in addition.And some reward for reaching max level in something would be good too.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Xariann

[Xariann]

Suggestion is good. Got any?

 

*Points to message above (and others throughout the forum).*

[neKroMancer]

I'll talk about a game that is often mentioned when some web site reviews Warframe: Mass Effect 3, specifically the multiplayer section. Now, I played hundreds of hours just in the multiplayer without counting the single player campaign. One day they decided to introduce challenges. So to get enough challenge points you had to try different weapons. I did it for a while, got a decent number of challenge points. However after a bit I thought, "I keep having to use these weapons that are total crap and that is killing the fun of the game for me."It feels good when you can get a decent result with (what you could consider) a crap weapon, but after a while it can get tiring. So I decided to disregard the challenges. On top of that, my N7 rank doesn't increase. Why? Because I play only Gold and Platinum these days and I don't really want to play those with a level 1 character, as the N7 rank only increases when your individual characters' ranks increase. And I don't want to play bronze or silver to relevel them. So here I pointed out a few flaws in the current game design in terms of levelling just by showing you what another game did. Their solution to reset frame ranks will do the same thing as well, yeah ok, you can increase your mastery ranks, but if I want to play on some harder planets it will suck.On the other hand challenges gave people a reason to do things, so I wouldn't want the devs to take them off the game, but I don't want to be forced to play them either. There just has to be some other way to allow your mastery to progress. Maybe keep earning exp so that it does progress even though frames and weapons don't. Put in challenges so if people WANT to master everything they get another sense of progression, but it's in addition.And some reward for reaching max level in something would be good too.

 

ME3MP scrub here. 500+ hours.

ME3MP progression system is really not that good due to the fact that BWdev didn't even think that the MP would be popular for that long. They literally didn't have any plan to support it let alone a progression system. The 'banner and achievement' was an icing on the cake, nothing more.

 

However, in Warframe we have a different situation. DEdev acknowledge this problem from the earlier days of development and have been working on the solution for a while now but pre7 system didn't offer much flexibility to deal with this matter. however, as long as there is no real benefit from gaining new mastery rank in Warframe, I don't really see any reason to advanced to any rank higher than four.

 

Also, look like you seems to misunderstand the 'resetting' frame/weapon level from livestream. It's intended to be a way for player to further customize their frames/weapons with change in polarity in order to add more mods into it and practically make it a 'custom' for your own usage. I'm not even sure that this process will make the mastery rank increase.

 

To be frank, fixing the mastery system and the it's progression should be done simultaneously.

[Xariann]

 

ME3MP scrub here. 500+ hours.

ME3MP progression system is really not that good due to the fact that BWdev didn't even think that the MP would be popular for that long. They literally didn't have any plan to support it let alone a progression system. The 'banner and achievement' was an icing on the cake, nothing more.

 

However, in Warframe we have a different situation. DEdev acknowledge this problem from the earlier days of development and have been working on the solution for a while now but pre7 system didn't offer much flexibility to deal with this matter. however, as long as there is no real benefit from gaining new mastery rank in Warframe, I don't really see any reason to advanced to any rank higher than four.

 

Also, look like you seems to misunderstand the 'resetting' frame/weapon level from livestream. It's intended to be a way for player to further customize their frames/weapons with change in polarity in order to add more mods into it and practically make it a 'custom' for your own usage. I'm not even sure that this process will make the mastery rank increase.

 

To be frank, fixing the mastery system and the it's progression should be done simultaneously.

It's good that they acknowledge it, but it's irrelevant. I mean, great that they are working on changing things, these are probably the most responsive devs I have ever seen, but then this is why we put forward our ideas. So because they acknowledge it, it doesn't mean we shouldn't mention things that we would like to change, right? Quite the opposite.

Fixing mastery system and its progression should be done simultaneously, I agree with that. I don't think I have said otherwise. I also mentioned getting rewards for mastering different things (and I meant from achieving higher player mastery levels to frames and weapons).

As for resetting frames, that doesn't mean we get a level 1 frame? Someone else in this thread seems to think so as he/she also mentioned it might help increasing the mastery rank. If we get to change polarities and still keep the frame rank then it would be a nice idea.

However on its own it isn't enough progression.

And of course progression isn't just about a level number next to your profile, although levels are basically the way to progress through just about any game (or almost).

I think the progression area might still lack some depth, like some other areas of this game. Mind, I am not saying it's a bad game, I love it, hence I forked some of my real life cash into it.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Xariann