Rollers! Feedback, Suggestions And Rants.

[Madotsuki]

Against my better judgement, I’m going to write this…

 

 So after reading this post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/29811-why-rollers-are-ruining-the-game-at-least-for-me/ , or more correctly the replies to it, I originally wanted to just post this as a reply, but then I realized what a wall of text I’ve written and decided to just start a new topic. Yes, this topic is going to be about ROLLERS. I’m also putting in a bit of a rant at the end, just to get this off my chest. If you’re one of those who find Rollers the best thing ever since sliced bread and that I am an idiot for not adoring them, feel free to immediately stop reading and go flame me in the replies, but if you don’t feel that way, read on.

 

  First off, actual feedback. I am NOT requesting a removal of Rollers, or nerfing their stats into oblivion. Yes, I admit, the Rollers do add something special to the Grineers. They manage to break the monotony of the human-based faction, where almost every single unit just fires a different kind of gun, and the one-size-fits-all strategy is to blast them in the head. And dealing with 2 or 3 Rollers at the same time is okay at least in my experience, it can be fun having to roll around to dodge the Rollers, and wait for the perfect chance to take one down. However, does it mean that it is perfect and should never be tweaked? NO.

 

  Particularly in solo, having any more than 3 at a time essentially screws you over. They stagger you on touch, interrupting reloads and any other action, can even stumble you mid-jump so you can’t use the melee ground slam, repeatedly takes control away from the player, all while the other Grineer casually spray you full of bullets. Kiting one gets you stumbled by the other balls coming from different directions. You’re not going to have 100 energy to use your AoE ult every time unless you never spend any energy, or your frame might not even HAVE an AoE ult. It almost forces you to run like a pansy to the nearest box so you can hide on top of it like a granny hiding from a mouse. How is that challenging at all?

 

  So, how can this be changed? I have a few suggestions for Roller tweaks, that both add to the challenge and also removes some frustrating features. These suggestions are not easy to implement, but it would go great lengths (at least IMO) to change Rollers from annoying spheres to be avoided, into interesting enemies to be looked forward to.

 

 

1. As I’ve mentioned before, use them as an opportunity to give blocking a bit more purpose. If a player blocks when a Roller hits them (player has to be facing the Roller), he performs a batting animation that sends the Roller flying a good distance, temporarily disabling the Roller when it lands back on the ground, and deals significant damage. I don’t want it to require a “precision timed” block to perform this as it could be extremely problematic when combined with lag. Requiring the player to be facing the Roller should be enough.

 

2. A harder to implement idea. Change the Roller’s AI so that instead of continuously charging the player at every opportunity, Rollers will attempt to zig zag and circle the player, going in and out of cover, staying a short distance away and making it harder to hit them. Every once in awhile, when it has line of sight to the player, it will stop and start revving up, spinning rapidly on the spot (it is invulnerable in this stage), with sparks flying off the ground around it. After 2 seconds of spinning, it charges in a straight line at the player at double the normal speed, doing medium-high damage and making the victim stumble. If it hits a wall/box, it also creates a short-range shockwave that knocks down players around it (half the Heavy stomp range). After the charge, it’ll be vulnerable again and can’t move for a second before starting to accelerate back to the circling phase. Imagine 4-5 Rollers circling around you like hungry wolves, preparing to strike. That would be fun to fight.

 

These are my current suggestions for Roller tweaking. Hopefully the devs will take a look and give it a little consideration. And now, for the rant. This is mostly aimed at certain individuals, but also at all of the “this game is too easy, buff everything” crowd. Feel free to skip this if you’re a dev and has better things to be doing, or are just not in the mood to read rantings.

 

So, why did you people get interested in this game in the first place? When you look at the Open Beta Trailer,

,

What kind of game do you think it shows?

 

  At least, when I look at the trailer, I see a game about action. I see an exciting game about fast-paced slash-and-shooting, smooth parkour, epic ability combos. A semi-casual shooter mixed with a spectacle fighter, that lets you kick &#! but still makes you earn your victory with skill and fast thinking. At no point was the game advertised as “HARDCORE”, nor was it advertised to be the next Dark Souls or NetHack. Yet when I look on the forums, I see people who demand more cover-taking (the enemy damage and RoF buffs), who applaud stunlocks in the name of “challenge” (nervos), who think standing on boxes to hide from enemies is what defines Space Ninjas (Infested and Rollers), who think making a single mistake should absolutely lead to instant death. People who demand everyone to be forced to take it slow, for all existing content’s difficulty level to be raised to 11 and kept that way, instead of asking for the addition of extra harder content to provide more choice. Do you even know what game this is supposed to be?

 

And as for all the arguments defending Rollers as brilliant enemies. So far, the 3 “official strategies” given for fighting Rollers are: 1. Kiting 2. Get on a box 3. Ult. Tell me, how is running away while spraying bullets behind you challenging? How does standing on a box require skill in any way? How is throwing an AoE ult a creative strategy? And how is a mob with these as “official strategies” a good design?

 

  And this doesn’t only apply to Rollers. There are other enemies that could use a good tweak, and yet those who point out their discontent are often declared whiners, noobs, babies who want to breeze through everything by a vocal minority, just because these enemies can be “dealt with” by melee stunlocks, the most powerful weapons (Hek), specific loadouts or box-perching.

 

  Am I a crying baby for wanting an enemy that has a more varied attack pattern? Am I some kind of noob that should go lrn2play for not liking an enemy based entirely on taking control away from the player repeatedly while being hard to hit? I dunno. All I know is that perfection does not exist, and that there is always room for improvement in anything and everything; that one man’s “strategy” can be another man’s “exploit”, and that as it stands, to me and a significant portion of other players, the Rollers are not fun or genuinely challenging in any way currently, and that at least in my opinion, the game would benefit from some alterations to these mobs behavior.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Madotsuki

[LoRDxDeMoN]

I hate rollers. Your ideas make sense.

[Mrhattu]

I suggest we get a new boss which is a HUGE ROLLER. Killing it will spawn smaller rollers to hunt you. They can also board your extraction ship and knock off your mouse cursor when trying to alter your mods in arsenal.

[SynfulChaot]

Most despised enemy in the game, those things.  If you're rocking Paris as a weapon those things are your bane.

 

As I see it what makes those things hard is their speed, their small size, their high armor, and their ability to stagger you.  Take one away (or reduce it in magnitude) and they become more reasonable.  Or that AI tweak suggested above.  As it stands right now, those things will kill you (indirectly, of course) faster than any other enemy, bosses included.

[ArcAngel_14]

Personally as stated above the rollers are a great enemy to break up montony in the grineer levels. Though annoying at times that is the point of there existance. What i think would be a cool tweak would be to make them more versatile. If possible it would be cool if the rollers could go along the walls and ceiling like a tenno would. In this case making wall running ineffective against them(Which i have done multiple times to get away from the buggers) In addition to the stun it should knock the character off the wall. Not only would it make the rollers more challenging, but also more technologically advanced instead of just rolling a line, hitting you and then turning around to do it again

[Madotsuki]

Personally as stated above the rollers are a great enemy to break up montony in the grineer levels. Though annoying at times that is the point of there existance. What i think would be a cool tweak would be to make them more versatile. If possible it would be cool if the rollers could go along the walls and ceiling like a tenno would. In this case making wall running ineffective against them(Which i have done multiple times to get away from the buggers) In addition to the stun it should knock the character off the wall. Not only would it make the rollers more challenging, but also more technologically advanced instead of just rolling a line, hitting you and then turning around to do it again

And that removes an interesting tactic against Rollers. Why would you want to make wall running ineffective? It's a much more challenging strategy than sitting on a box at least.

[Dashx]

They see me rollin.. they hatin...

 

to those who didn't get it. it was a joke :(

Edited April 16, 2013 by Dashx

[Hashul]

tl;dr remove all rollers

[parkel]

tl;dr remove all rollers

 

Please read the post. 

 

The real tl;dr: Make rollers more significant in gameplay rather than just rolling balls that are hard to hit and stunlock you at any given opportunity.

[Ced23Ric]

Rollers are hated, and DE knows it. It's not the hitboxes, it is the entire enemy. We already voiced our dislike for stun/stunlock, adding another source is not going to make people happy. There is hope that whoever invited these things feels really bad - I hope you do - for it, and sees the errors of his/her way and ceases to answer "What should our new enemy do?" with "Stun/Stagger!" - because if there's is one more of these enemies, I'll flip a serious table.

 

I suggest we get a new boss which is a HUGE ROLLER. Killing it will spawn smaller rollers to hunt you. They can also board your extraction ship and knock off your mouse cursor when trying to alter your mods in arsenal.

 

All in favour, raise your hand.

 

o/

[-GG-Sinevultu]

If it could help ( i hate them too but i think also that they are in the game for that purpose :P):

 

Trinity link = balls can't stagger you if you are under link, also they take some little damage (i got once an already damaged roller to explode by hurting me, very satysfing must to admit, although i would like a confirmation on this).

Mag Bullett attraction = self explaining i think :P.

(Need confirmation) Excalibur radial blind = i noticed rollers stop to move when i used the radial blind, although sometimes (rarely) they continue to move but maybe is possible they were out of the range of the blind.

 

A good weapon vs roller is every weapon with high fire rate (for to track them) like the Gorgon, although with some path prediction a good shotgun hit can take care of them.

 

Anytime in defenses with an orokin reactor i noticed that rollers are difficult to hit with shotgun when they are sticked to the reactor, maybe a glich since they are very easy to hit when they are stopped, well if it happens to you just melee them ^^.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Clownsanity

[Elhazzared]

I'll try to answer this as seriously as possible and quite frankly, without bothering to go into as much detail as I usually go because quite frankly, it get tiring of seeying the same people asking the same thing over and over again.

 

First off, there is no vocal minority asking to make things more difficult, if anything there is a division of people wanting moe challenge and those wanting nerfs. Sorry but the game do is easy right now, there is no content that cannot be be solo-ed and while more dificult than co-op, it's still rather easy.

 

The Devs themselfs agree that the content is to easy and in fact do you know how to easly judge a game being easy or not? If a Dev can beat it, the game is easy. Trust me, there is no easier measure of how easy a game is.

 

Let me go now over the strategies that you so despise about rollers.

 

1. Kiting - So, why does kitting provide a challenge. Why to you need to even have cover in a game? Well, that's because eventually your shield breaks and you'll need to hide behind something to let it recharge. Now while you are hiding and reloading/recharging your shield one roller shows up. Start kiting it, so you don't get staggered but hey, you were forced out of cover and your shield barely recovered anything and now you have to kill the roller and find cover again. That adds challenge, that makes you rethink your approuch to certain situations. sure you can chose to stay in cover, but you'll still not recover your shields withthe rollers attacks alone and odds are you'll be staggered out of cover anyway... Easly it can be said that it adds challenge and you even know this, you just don't like the fact that this happens.

 

2. Boxes - Yes a box, such a broken thing isn't it? Only that while you jump on top of it to avoid the roller, the entire world sees you and can shoot at you. Congratulations, yes you sucessfully stoped the roller from getting you to, but you became a bullet magnet. If you have a lot of shields and can kill the roller quickly, this is a viable tactic... Or if there aren't many enemies to shoot at you, otherwise you obviously won't do this... Looks like this isn't broken after all and while it requires no skill to stand on a box, it requires situational awareness as to when you can do this!

 

3. Ultimate - Not everyone has a ultimate that can deal with the rollers but I think every warframe has at least one power that helps dealing with them and I'll speak on that base. Let me start to ask, how is it not a strategy to save your energy to deal with specific situations? I dunno how you use your energy, maybe you just spam abillities as soon as you have energy to do it. Personally I save them for when they are needed. If I'm playing Rhino I save energy either to become invunerable when things are ugly, or to be able to push through a horde of enemies surrounding me. I don't need energy to just kill random stuff, I need it to save my &#!. Similarly on my ember, I save my energy to either use world on fire when there is too many enemies close and yes, it deals with the rollers easly enough or I use my energy on overheat to get some damage reduction if the situation is ugly and the ultimate is not a good solution.

 

So if you can't think of this as being viable strategies with merits, then that's your problem. Fact is, if you don't have the rollers being as badass as they are now, then you might as well get rid of the grineer altogether because they are not even going to pose a challenge.

[Madotsuki]

The Devs themselfs agree that the content is to easy and in fact do you know how to easly judge a game being easy or not? If a Dev can beat it, the game is easy. Trust me, there is no easier measure of how easy a game is.

I stopped taking you seriously by this point. Oh, so if the CREATOR OF THE GAME can beat the game, the game is too easy. WOW. SUCH LOGIC. If the devs, who made the game and thus should know the game inside-out, can't even beat the game themselves, then how are they to know the general public can beat it? The only thing i expect a dev to be unable to beat in their own game is the ultra-elite-hardcore-hell difficulty modes.

[Ced23Ric]

> Grineer aren't cool.

> Don't fix Grineer, add Rollers.

> wat

[-GG-Sinevultu]

I stopped taking you seriously by this point. Oh, so if the CREATOR OF THE GAME can beat the game, the game is too easy. WOW. SUCH LOGIC. If the devs, who made the game and thus should know the game inside-out, can't even beat the game themselves, then how are they to know the general public can beat it? The only thing i expect a dev to be unable to beat in their own game is the ultra-elite-hardcore-hell difficulty modes.

Well Diablo 3 devs for example did not manage to finish their game at last difficulties but they released it by saying: we are not able to finish it and our inside testers (hardcore gamers) too but we think that our player will be able to do this; who played Diablo 3 know the end :P.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Clownsanity

[Madotsuki]

Well Diablo 3 devs for example did not manage to finish their game at last difficulties but they released it by saying: we are not able to finish it and our inside testers (hardcore gamers) too but we think that our player will be able to do this; who played Diablo 3 know the end :P.

I'm assuming you mean the Hell and Inferno difficulties for Diablo 3. And that's what I mean, it's okay if the devs can't beat the Hard and above difficulties, but at the very least they should be beating Normal difficulty. In terms of Warframe, I won't be surprised if the devs can't beat Pluto difficulty. But if they can't beat Europa/Sedna, there's a problem.

[Elhazzared]

I stopped taking you seriously by this point. Oh, so if the CREATOR OF THE GAME can beat the game, the game is too easy. WOW. SUCH LOGIC. If the devs, who made the game and thus should know the game inside-out, can't even beat the game themselves, then how are they to know the general public can beat it? The only thing i expect a dev to be unable to beat in their own game is the ultra-elite-hardcore-hell difficulty modes.

 

In any game Dev shouldn't be able to beat their own content and that's because players are bound to be a whole lot better than Devs, everyone knows this.

 

Now if you told me that you wanted there to be a normal mode and a casual mode, I don't think that it should be a focus, but I wouldn't really care if the Devs made some content that can be beaten even more easly!

 

In Warframes the Devs can litereally beat anything that crosses their path without so much as blinking. Do you see this as a standard for dificulty?

 

Go see other games that are made or being made, go watch interviews. Most cases Devs says, we can't beat this and that but they know the players will and that's because players will learn how to join up together and do things, not to mention that players spends a lot of time playing the game, the Devs spend a lot of time making it. Just because you know the mechanics of a game you build it doesn't means that you are good enough to beat it. Devs are far from being hardcore gamers and that's why they shouldn't be able to beat their own content.

 

Now I'm not a hardcore gamer myself, but even I can feel how easy it is. If I want to actually have some dificulty in the game, I have to handycap myself by making my warframe weaker or by playing with a weaker warframe.

[Madotsuki]

In any game Dev shouldn't be able to beat their own content and that's because players are bound to be a whole lot better than Devs, everyone knows this.

 

Now if you told me that you wanted there to be a normal mode and a casual mode, I don't think that it should be a focus, but I wouldn't really care if the Devs made some content that can be beaten even more easly!

 

In Warframes the Devs can litereally beat anything that crosses their path without so much as blinking. Do you see this as a standard for dificulty?

 

Go see other games that are made or being made, go watch interviews. Most cases Devs says, we can't beat this and that but they know the players will and that's because players will learn how to join up together and do things, not to mention that players spends a lot of time playing the game, the Devs spend a lot of time making it. Just because you know the mechanics of a game you build it doesn't means that you are good enough to beat it. Devs are far from being hardcore gamers and that's why they shouldn't be able to beat their own content.

 

Now I'm not a hardcore gamer myself, but even I can feel how easy it is. If I want to actually have some dificulty in the game, I have to handycap myself by making my warframe weaker or by playing with a weaker warframe.

Oh so the normal difficulty has to be the CASUAL mode, and the hard difficulty should be standard. What is this, I Wanna Be The Guy? Should they add a fake "easy" difficulty too that when clicked will shut down the game and open the Barbie homepage?

 

And this is a very curious fact i find with game devs. From what I see, they barely even play games, including their own! Personally I aspire to be a game dev one day. Why? Because I played a lot of games, and thus has a lot of ideas! I am a gamer, and thus gained interest in making my own game! It's just strange to me that devs would be "bad" at gaming despite MAKING games. And the Warframe devs really don't need to be "hardcore" gamers to beat their own game, because Warframe is not supposed to BE a "hardcore" game! Where is it advertised that Warframe is HARDCORE??!! If you want hardcore difficulty, ask them to add a hardcore difficulty as an OPTION, then everyone's happy, i'm fine with that! You complain about needing to handicap yourself to have a challenge, well what about the new players? New players who don't have over-modded Gorgons and Heks, and 800+ shields and health? Want difficulty? ASK FOR NEW CONTENT! Surely a new planet where enemies are level 50-100 will satisfy you? Why should the less elite players suffer in a non-hardcore game because some players are either ultra pro or has maxed everything?

 

And Rollers aren't even about being hardcore or not! They're just BORING! Let me clarify right now, I've never even died to Rollers, directly or indirectly, before. They have almost always only amounted to a nuisance during my encounters, I'm not complaining about them being overtly difficult. But they're just so BORING! It's a ball that keeps rolling into you and taking away your control repeatedly, and that's all there is to it! And how do you deal with it? You don't roll out of the way, you don't jump over them, you don't wait for an opportunity, you just run away while spraying in its general direction/jump on the nearest box/auto-kill with ult! I will never understand anyone who considers Rollers as it currently is FUN! I didn't even ask for a nerf, I just asked for an AI change to make them more INTERESTING! It doesn't make them easier! WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT THAT!

[-GG-Sinevultu]

I'm assuming you mean the Hell and Inferno difficulties for Diablo 3. And that's what I mean, it's okay if the devs can't beat the Hard and above difficulties, but at the very least they should be beating Normal difficulty. In terms of Warframe, I won't be surprised if the devs can't beat Pluto difficulty. But if they can't beat Europa/Sedna, there's a problem.

Yep for sure ^^, i think Pluto is doable from devs too eheh, was so easy, i can remember the boss, it just selfkilled on my Trinity Link and with the fire of other mates lasted like 30s, as last boss is the easiest one i found in my videogames career, generically speaking; i was wondering today what mob levels change in mob stats, for sure not shield and armor (for example my LEX can do 1180 damage in every stage of the game on greeners head), prolly just more life ^^.

 

So i think there is the room for a little improvement in difficulty, personally speaking i am not an ubergeek, just normally good in gaming and in this game from 2 weeks ^^.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Clownsanity

[Madotsuki]

Yep for sure ^^, i think Pluto is doable from devs too eheh, was so easy, i can remember the boss, it just selfkilled on my Trinity Link and with the fire of other mates lasted like 30s, as last boss is the easiest one i found in my videogames career, generically speaking; i was wondering today what mob levels change in mob stats, for sure not shield and armor (for example my LEX can do 1180 damage in every stage of the game), prolly just more life ^^.

 

So i think there is the room for a little improvement in difficulty, personally speaking i am not an ubergeek, just normally good in gaming and in this game from 2 weeks ^^.

I think their armor does increase. One time i stupidly tried to do a Pluto alert defense mission. My strun was barely even scratching a Grineer Lancer, the damage numbers were pathetic compared to the ones i get from, like say a Saturn Lancer. Also, i'm pretty sure enemy damage also increases. And there's their health/shields, duh.

 

And yeah, I must admit after watching a video of Ambulas it is quite pathetic as a final boss. I mean, come on, a little MOA? Even the Jackal was more majestic than that. Ambulas' "spartan kicks" are kinda hilarious though.

[-GG-Sinevultu]

I think their armor does increase. One time i stupidly tried to do a Pluto alert defense mission. My strun was barely even scratching a Grineer Lancer, the damage numbers were pathetic compared to the ones i get from, like say a Saturn Lancer. Also, i'm pretty sure enemy damage also increases. And there's their health/shields, duh.

 

And yeah, I must admit after watching a video of Ambulas it is quite pathetic as a final boss. I mean, come on, a little MOA? Even the Jackal was more majestic than that. Ambulas' "spartan kicks" are kinda hilarious though.

Yea lol, was like one of those funny comic scenes when someone is scared from a loudy bark coming out from a door and a huge shadow and then comes out a chihuahua XD.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Clownsanity

[Elhazzared]

Oh so the normal difficulty has to be the CASUAL mode, and the hard difficulty should be standard. What is this, I Wanna Be The Guy? Should they add a fake "easy" difficulty too that when clicked will shut down the game and open the Barbie homepage?

 

And this is a very curious fact i find with game devs. From what I see, they barely even play games, including their own! Personally I aspire to be a game dev one day. Why? Because I played a lot of games, and thus has a lot of ideas! I am a gamer, and thus gained interest in making my own game! It's just strange to me that devs would be "bad" at gaming despite MAKING games. And the Warframe devs really don't need to be "hardcore" gamers to beat their own game, because Warframe is not supposed to BE a "hardcore" game! Where is it advertised that Warframe is HARDCORE??!! If you want hardcore difficulty, ask them to add a hardcore difficulty as an OPTION, then everyone's happy, i'm fine with that! You complain about needing to handicap yourself to have a challenge, well what about the new players? New players who don't have over-modded Gorgons and Heks, and 800+ shields and health? Want difficulty? ASK FOR NEW CONTENT! Surely a new planet where enemies are level 50-100 will satisfy you? Why should the less elite players suffer in a non-hardcore game because some players are either ultra pro or has maxed everything?

 

And Rollers aren't even about being hardcore or not! They're just BORING! Let me clarify right now, I've never even died to Rollers, directly or indirectly, before. They have almost always only amounted to a nuisance during my encounters, I'm not complaining about them being overtly difficult. But they're just so BORING! It's a ball that keeps rolling into you and taking away your control repeatedly, and that's all there is to it! And how do you deal with it? You don't roll out of the way, you don't jump over them, you don't wait for an opportunity, you just run away while spraying in its general direction/jump on the nearest box/auto-kill with ult! I will never understand anyone who considers Rollers as it currently is FUN! I didn't even ask for a nerf, I just asked for an AI change to make them more INTERESTING! It doesn't make them easier! WHAT'S SO WRONG ABOUT THAT!

 

Well, what you are asking for is something easier. Your sugestion means that the roller will hit you a lot less often and that will mean that they become a lot easier to deal with. So what you want is an easier dificulty, whether or not it would make them look cooler.

 

Devs play games, most of them grew playing games too but now that they are Devs they spend a good part o their day developing these games... You know, working and all? You can't expect a Dev who spends a lot of his time working and more often than not he's not just working 8 hours a days, to just be as good as players who have hours and hours to burn into games.

 

Yes, warframe doesn't needs to become a hardcore game, why do you think I pressed against giving bonus for acrobacies in this game? It's not a hardcore score attack game after all. But the game isn't suppose to be so easy as to barely provide any challenge... I am no hardcore gamer myself and I can't even play half as good as one and still the game fails to provide a challenge for me, heck the most it manages to do is actually make me run out of ammo at times and that's only because I use weapons which tend to burn through ammo fast... as for new players... Well, I never felt any kind of dificulty at all since I started playing and I did start playing in U7. Obviously things are not supposed to be hard at the start, they are supposed to increase in dificulty gradually but this game just keeps it as easy as in the beggining.

 

Again Rollers are not boring, they are there to force you out of hidding and to be anuisance too yes. While they are not hard to deal with they add more dificulty to the game whether or not you acknowledge it. If you can just hide as much as you want to recover shields and reload and do whatever you want then nothing will ever provide you challenge, Roller give you the challenge by being a pain in the &#! that won't let you do anything until you deal with them, not to mention they will force you out of cover. This is well done. Again your sugestion is. Make them circle arround and only attack every once in while. Well, they would surelly become really good then. Want to reload? Go ahead! Want to stay behind the cover all the time? No problem. So what would they do then? Nothing is the answer! And don't come saying they could make them do more damage, what the rollers do is what every other faction has, stagger and keep on staggering. Infested pretty much has stagger on most units but it barelly has range so it's balanced in that respect. Corpus have railgun moas. Yes they don't come at you but they continually shoot at you and stagger you, time and time again. roller rolls at you and stagger you time and time again. Perfect balance... Yes in the 3 cases you deal with it differently but you pretty much deal differently with the 3 factions to beggin with.

[PrincessBabycakes]

Increase hitbox only. I don't have any issues with rollers as is.

[Madotsuki]

Well, what you are asking for is something easier. Your sugestion means that the roller will hit you a lot less often and that will mean that they become a lot easier to deal with. So what you want is an easier dificulty, whether or not it would make them look cooler.

 

Devs play games, most of them grew playing games too but now that they are Devs they spend a good part o their day developing these games... You know, working and all? You can't expect a Dev who spends a lot of his time working and more often than not he's not just working 8 hours a days, to just be as good as players who have hours and hours to burn into games.

 

Yes, warframe doesn't needs to become a hardcore game, why do you think I pressed against giving bonus for acrobacies in this game? It's not a hardcore score attack game after all. But the game isn't suppose to be so easy as to barely provide any challenge... I am no hardcore gamer myself and I can't even play half as good as one and still the game fails to provide a challenge for me, heck the most it manages to do is actually make me run out of ammo at times and that's only because I use weapons which tend to burn through ammo fast... as for new players... Well, I never felt any kind of dificulty at all since I started playing and I did start playing in U7. Obviously things are not supposed to be hard at the start, they are supposed to increase in dificulty gradually but this game just keeps it as easy as in the beggining.

 

Again Rollers are not boring, they are there to force you out of hidding and to be anuisance too yes. While they are not hard to deal with they add more dificulty to the game whether or not you acknowledge it. If you can just hide as much as you want to recover shields and reload and do whatever you want then nothing will ever provide you challenge, Roller give you the challenge by being a pain in the &#! that won't let you do anything until you deal with them, not to mention they will force you out of cover. This is well done. Again your sugestion is. Make them circle arround and only attack every once in while. Well, they would surelly become really good then. Want to reload? Go ahead! Want to stay behind the cover all the time? No problem. So what would they do then? Nothing is the answer! And don't come saying they could make them do more damage, what the rollers do is what every other faction has, stagger and keep on staggering. Infested pretty much has stagger on most units but it barelly has range so it's balanced in that respect. Corpus have railgun moas. Yes they don't come at you but they continually shoot at you and stagger you, time and time again. roller rolls at you and stagger you time and time again. Perfect balance... Yes in the 3 cases you deal with it differently but you pretty much deal differently with the 3 factions to beggin with.

So, your argument is that Roller's role is to flush people out of cover. Guess what, we don't NEED Rollers for that.

 

GRENADIERS. Yes, Heavy Grenadiers. Why not introduce a WHOLE NEW unit? He could be like the demoman from TF2, shoots pipebombs that arc over cover or bounce off walls. Combined with AI aimbot, it's the perfect way to flush people out of cover without having to resort to little balls rolling around staggering people and making them hide on boxes. Trying to hide behind a box to recover your shields, and suddenly pipebombs fly over the box and lands right in front of you, and you run the hell out of cover to dodge the explosion. That is so much better that Rollers! Give Rollers more of a role as a disruptive support unit, that messes up your aim when you're trying to shoot and just generally harasses the player. Plus, this is a game about Space Ninjas. Rule of Cool ought to be considered. And of the two suggestions i gave, the first does not even involve a decrease in Roller attack rate, and simply gives you the ability to retaliate with blocking. The second one was to make Rollers more of a "strategic" enemy to deal with, with the whole counter-attack thing, and works well if Rollers came in a small horde.

 

And staggering/knockdowns/anything that takes control away from the player often should be minimised, not introduced everywhere! The Infested at least has the excuse that they are melee-based, and even then there should be an "invuln" period after being stunned once to prevent long stunlocks if surrounded. Railgun Moas are large targets that can easily be shot down when you see one, rarely appear at more than 2 at a time, stands still to shoot and makes an identifiable sound and animation before they fire which gives you time to roll away. Rollers are small, relatively quiet, move around all the time, can come in massive amounts (especially in Kela's bossfight) and in a way doesn't even fit in with the people-based Grineer faction, even though as i said before i guess it adds a certain amount of variety.

 

Why can't you just think outside of the box for a little instead of wanting to keep everything the same as it currently is? It's a beta, why not suggest new content while patching existing content too?

[slijm]

force you out of cover?

 

no way

 

if anything they force me into cover till iv dealth with anoying things so they dont stunlock me out in the open

 

 

edit: i mean you need 3 of the blody things for them to even be considerd dangerous to your health

 

if anything forces you out of cover its the 5 lancers that bust thru the door to the room you just cleared 5 sec ago and start unloading into your back

Edited April 16, 2013 by slijm