Platinum Pricing Feedback.

[Eurhetemec]

I'm not sure that this is the right forum for this, but happy to see it moved to the correct one if there is one (I couldn't see one).

 

As Warframe is still in beta, and can be modified, I thought it was worth mentioning my feeling that the pricing scheme for platinum may be a bit off for customers at the lower-spending end. To be clear, I'm not complaining - the game can be played without platinum, and that's awesome, but what's more awesome for Digital Extremes is if I and others spend more money in the platinum shop. I've played a fair number of F2P or P2P with shop games (an example of the latter is GW2), and spent a fair bit of cash in various shops over the years.

 

I feel like with Warframe, the "bang for your buck" isn't really enough to motivate me to spend money on platinum. This came up because I was thinking "Well, maybe I'll just buy a couple of 'frames and a reactor for my current frame", but looking at the actual pricing there, it seems like I'd be having to spend $20-30, maybe more, to do that. They do, I understand come with extra ' frame slots and reactors, and that's cool, but that feels like a lot of money considering that they still have to be levelled up, don't necessarily offer vastly different gameplay, and so on. Whereas I could be buying an entire expansion for another game, or even an indie game or six for that price. Or spending money in another cash shop for a different game for a rather more dramatic change to my experience.

 

So I didn't end up spending any money. The steep efficiency gain as one spends more money in the shop also seems to strongly penalize dabbling/small spends - obviously, Digital Extremes want us to spend as much as possible - makes sense - but because the efficiency is so different, it makes me, at least, kind of reluctant to spend anything, as I feel like a fool for getting such a bad deal.

 

Typically I spend $5-20 at a time in these kind of shops, rather than dropping $50 or $100 (the price of an entire other PC game or two games in the latter case, which might well last months or years themselves, if having decent MP) at a time, and I wonder if there aren't other customers in my spend range being equally discouraged. It's particularly eyebrow-raising that some Warframes cost so much that, by themselves, they cost more than an entire other game, and certainly much more than the $10-15 I feel like I could justify dropping on any single Warframe. Indeed, you can't get any frame except the old starting 3 for under $10 (though you could get two of them). Even the new starting frame, the Mag, requires you to spend over $10.

 

Now it may be that there are so many customers willing to drop $100+, that, for Digital Extremes, the fact that lower spenders are only going to buy slots (for 'frames and inventory), and the minimum number possible is just really irrelevant. If so, good, then their pricing model is spot-on. If they are going form the more typical model of F2P games, though, were most players pay around $10-50 over a year or so, with 10% spending $100+, and and around 40% never spending anything, then I think the prices need looking at. I'm not sure what to do with them without hurting existing customers - perhaps lower the prices on items and refund the difference in plat to them? Anyway, that's up to Digital Extremes, if they see the need.

 

Again, I am not complaining about the prices, I'm just saying that they have, for me, sufficiently poor "bang for buck" (in terms of what you get per platinum) and sufficiently high desired buy-in (due to the extra platinum for spending more), that I think it's unlikely I'll ever spend more than the absolute minimum to accomodate any 'frames and weapons I construct, and that Digital Extremes missed out on an impulse purchase last night. For the record, I don't think making frame-building more grindy would help, given that it is a significant grind already.

 

(I also wonder if it isn't a bit off at the higher end too, with fewer "look cool" options than I'd expect - I know the devs said that they had done market research and found their market wanted to purchase power, not looks, and that's cool, but I do wonder if, as Warframe reaches a broader world market, that will remain true)

[Bitfly]

Hmm and I always thought things were cheap. But I'm coming from APB Reloaded so I'm used to crazy high priced items...

[Quetzhal]

There's a topic here if you want to see what other people think about the prices.

You're not alone, is what I'm saying. As I said, when I stepped into this game, I immediately wanted to spend money to support it, simply because of how awesome it was. It wasn't just me, either - the friend I introduced to the game had the exact same reaction. Both of us stopped short of spending when we saw the prices. We still bought the founder's pack afterwards, but that was to support the developers being awesome, not to get stuff in the shop.

Most other players? They're going to hit the block when they see the prices, stop, and then just not buy anything. Which is a problem and could hurt DE's profits.

As for cosmetics, it depends. Personally, if I see an incredibly cool reskin of Excalibur, for example, I'd buy it in a heartbeat (provided the prices aren't insane). I'd be a bit more hesitant if it affected my stats.

 

[Psyked]

So I didn't end up spending any money.

 

Yep, this is exactly my experience too. I do feel like supporting the game, but with the current pricing I simply don't feel I'm getting my money's worth. This effectively prevents me from buying anything at all, whereas I would probably have spent $30 in total if it got me more than a single warframe.

[Koadster]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

[Bitfly]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

It might not be a concern for you or someone like me. But there is a majority of people with bills needing to be paid that simply leaves them with no or few money left

[Eurhetemec]

There's a topic here if you want to see what other people think about the prices.

You're not alone, is what I'm saying. As I said, when I stepped into this game, I immediately wanted to spend money to support it, simply because of how awesome it was. It wasn't just me, either - the friend I introduced to the game had the exact same reaction. Both of us stopped short of spending when we saw the prices. We still bought the founder's pack afterwards, but that was to support the developers being awesome, not to get stuff in the shop.

Most other players? They're going to hit the block when they see the prices, stop, and then just not buy anything. Which is a problem and could hurt DE's profits.

As for cosmetics, it depends. Personally, if I see an incredibly cool reskin of Excalibur, for example, I'd buy it in a heartbeat (provided the prices aren't insane). I'd be a bit more hesitant if it affected my stats.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not surprised others feel similarly, I have to say. Hopefully Digital Extremes can work out some kind of solution that helps us to spend without being unfair to those who already have.

[Zarrazheno]

Well put and well thought out thread. 

I agree. I too had this sort of response, which feels a bit unfortunate. I want to support them, but I simply don't have the spare cash to do so. 

[Eurhetemec]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

 

Actually, as a kid I'd have been fine with the prices, and I earn rather a lot more than $20/hour. The trouble is, I'm a responsible adult with dependents, big rent, and who needs to save up for retirement! I can't justify blowing that sort of money for the amount of amusement I would see myself getting :) Also, like most people in full-time employment, my leisure time and earning time are not in conflict so the question is kind of irrelevant. I can't swap one for the other.

 

As for "many many hours", I agree, but the question is, how much do they improve my experience, how much do they entertain me, during that time? I can't see a slightly better pistol or a Warframe that differs solely in that it has four different abilities really providing me with the same amount of entertainment as $20 spent on another game, or even a good movie I've not seen before.

[ELREYULTIMO]

Just my two cents: As someone that usually ends up spending too much on F2P games, Warframe is the first one to cause me to pass on getting some of the premium currency because of the value. It isn't a matter of how much money I have, it is more about what I am getting for it and the prices right now seem a little too steep to me.

On the flip side, the best deal for platinum right now is to become a founder, which also has the added benefits of a couple exclusive items (those dang exclusives rope me in every time). To me, that seems like the way to go if you want to contribute to the growth of this awesome game.

Edited April 16, 2013 by ELREYULTIMO

[Quetzhal]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

Yes - in theory, $15 isn't at all a bad price for something you'll use for that long. Weapon prices are frankly ridiculous considering how easy they generally are to get ingame. There's no incentive whatsoever to buy them, I feel.

Regardless, the problem here is what new players think when they see the prices. They want to buy, which is potential money for DE. Then they don't, so DE isn't earning as much as they could be or as much as they deserve. They certainly need more resources to spend on the game, and that means rebalancing the cash shop.

In fact, the conversion rate of Platinum is a negative right now. Players will see that a Warframe costs - for example - 300 platinum. With the conversion rate they're used to, they're going to expect that it's $3 (Unrealistic, yes, but bear with me. It's an example.)

Then they see the actual conversion rate and it's $20. The reaction here wouldn't be "eh, whatever, gonna buy it anyways." They would think that the developers are actively trying to cheat them and this is a very bad thing where potential sales are concerned. The impression they get jumps from "Oh hey, $3! That's pretty cheap!" to "Dear god it's $20?!".

The player, then, goes from happy to disappointed - and you do not want to make that impression on new players.

What I'm saying is, not only should things be cheaper, but the conversion shouldn't be so counterintuitive. Just make 100 plat = $1. 75 plat for $5... just gives the impression that the devs are trying to trick people into buying platinum. I know that's not the case, but do new players?

Also! Here's a thread to look into. Someone decided to run all the numbers on how much everything should cost, based on grinding time, players, generally fun mathematics stuff. I quite agree with that analysis, actually.

[Ryanshow]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

 

Of course your socio economic status is the only one that exists or ever will exist in the future. It is surely the dominant one. Especially for people who play video games.

 

Yah no.

 

I'm with OP on this one.

 

I would never consider buying weapons or warframes at the current pricing. Slots I would consider, beyond that too exorbitant a cost to get content. A warframe is not worth half a game to me.

 

[Phlyn]

$15 for a warframe youll use for many many hours. $5-$10 for a weapon you'll use for many many hours... Prices arent that bad unless your a school kid with no job. How precious is your time? I can earn $20 an hour much faster then building 2 weapons... htfu

 

 

I agree with the idea here actually, but calling them school kids isn't necessary.

 

i mean league of legends is arguably the largest F2P game in exsistance, and they have 9 dollar SKINS, plus the average for warframes is not $15 its closer to 10. you're paying slightly more for a game impacting choice.

[thesorrow]

iv already spend about 60 bucks in this game going to probly spend another 60 this week it is true tho for the price of the items its to much :/ id like to see money rewards more or at lest the mods and blueprints sell for more so u can earn these things as a better alternitive then having to farm a map 12 times for one blueprint when i only have 4 to 5 hrs of free time a day and i cant always spend that on this like others have said family bills life it happens

[Erwing]

I agree. I actually made a

about this within my first couple days in-game, and I had the same reaction. "This game is awesome, let's check out the cash shop!" ... "Platinum costs HOW much? Forget that, I'll just farm for the damn items."

 

Farming for the weapons is more fun than just buying them, anyway. I can usually have materials for a new one by the time I max an old one out, so I'm not even missing out on any efficiency. Warframe farming is a bit of a pain and the 3 and a half-day waiting time is totally lame, though. :c

 

 

[lokozar]

Just wanted to jump in to say that I support this thread as well as the other one mentioned in post #3 - in which I've already written down my opinion.

[Eurhetemec]

I agree with the idea here actually, but calling them school kids isn't necessary.

 

i mean league of legends is arguably the largest F2P game in exsistance, and they have 9 dollar SKINS, plus the average for warframes is not $15 its closer to 10. you're paying slightly more for a game impacting choice.

 

I'm afraid you may want to look at your math again, Phlyn. $10 = 170 plat. Most Warframes cost 225 plat, so if you spend $10, you will be 55 plat short. You would thus need to spend another $5 to get 75 plat to buy one, which will leave you with 20 plat (enough for a reactor or catalyst or Warframe slot). Thus it is correct to say that the minimum spend to obtain any non-starter Warframe, or even a Mag, which is a starter Warframe, is $15. That is the minimum amount of money you could spend. That's the math, I'm afraid, and not arguable.

 

If you spend $30, and got 570 plat, you could afford two 225 plat Warframes, but not three, and not two and a 175 plat Warframe. Thus still, for non-starter Warframes, you are spending $15 per Warframe. You do have some points left over, which are worth something, but at this point you've already spent the price of an entire other game (on slight sale - as most are after 2-3 months). It's quite a bit of "sticker shock".

 

Skins are a bad comparison, and I'm curious as to why you'd choose that. I don't think anyone minds how much skins cost, do they? They have no impact on gameplay and typically only sell to customers who really feel they must have a specific look for non-rational reasons, or to deeply hardcore players looking to differentiate themselves. Neither group is much bothered by the price, and in Warframe, skins could also be priced very high.

A good comparison would be between a Warframe and a Champion in LoL. Both influence your gameplay - a Champion arguably does so more, actually. Champions range from 260 to 975 Riot Points.

 

$10 gets you 1380 Riot Points. That buys you one of the most expensive Champions in that game and leaves you with enough to buy one of the cheapest and you'd still have points left over. Or you could buy two 585 ones and a 260. Or a 790 and a 585. This is more in line with what people might expect.

 

Weapon prices in Warframe are even more extreme, as one of the linked posts details. I'm not sure what market they are targeting there. There is one, I'm sure, but the question is how big is it? How sustainable is it? Only Digital Extremes know. All I know is that I absolutely would not spend platinum on either a weapon or non-starter Warframe (the starter frames are reasonable when you factor in the free slot and reactor), the prices are just too extreme.

 

I did pick the $20 Founder's Pack to show my support for the game, but I'll be rationing the platinum from that pretty carefully. I suspect the 370 from that is enough to last a long, long time. Were Warframe and Weapon prices more reasonable, though, I'd probably have already blown it! :) But when one Warframe eats most of that, and some weapons eat half of it, that's just not worth spending. Better to hold it for Warframe and Weapon slots when you construct them.

[Poojipoo]

Just popping in to mention that I agree completely with this topic.  I played this game for a while and got pretty excited since it was right up my alley, then checked the cash shop and... immediately put my wallet away.  Almost $10 to buy a weapon is just not a good value for the player.  They'd see a lot more players like myself trying out weapons and Warframes if they dropped the price by a good 1/5 what it currently is.

[WARLOCKE]

Yea, and I wonder if they ever sell those mod packs. 5 dollars for a online pack of 5 cards? Lol, no,

[se05239]

Meh, after I paid the bills I still have like 700 euro left to use, using some of it for a game I like isn't that much? 

 

But I only used plat for potatoes and a sentinel, so far, so I still have tons to spare. I enjoy more the crafting, as it makes me feel there is something to do in the game, considering there is no "end-game" yet.

Edited April 21, 2013 by se05239

[Jrgsubzero]

I keep saying this too. People keep beating me with "YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY LOL" Damn right I don't, and I won't.