Weapons Should Have Specific Max Ammo And Ammo Drop Stats.

[Zeunchainn]

Some weapon are terribly ammo inefficient like Boar.

Boar should have more than standard 120 max ammo of semi automatic shotguns.Picking up a shotgun ammo drop should give more that +10 for a boar.

30 bullet of hek is enought to kill most boss.

120 bullet of boar and boss is still 60% hp.

Having to spend bullet on regen shield also advantage more bullet efficient weapon.

Automatic weapon are also more likely to miss making them even less bullet efficient.

And the fact that ammo mods are % based make it even worse for Boar.

+36 ammo for max ammo stock mod for Boar is not significant.

 

Same with most automatic pistols.You never run out of ammo with Lex because it's 70 damage per bullet.

But with Viper it takes 5 as much bullet to do the same amount of damage.

 

In the end most damage per bullet are most ammo efficient weapon and often the best weapon making some weapon that would be interesting unviable.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Zeunchainn

[OrtuOcelot]

45 extra shells on a Boar can go a long way, it seems you aren't modding your weapons right if you're complaining about their ammo cap and ammo pickup count...I have Twin Vipers with only a Lv5 "Trick Mag" and mods to tear through enemies, I can go with my vipers an entire mission, if not almost 85-90% of a mission without running out of ammo. On top of mods there's also the scavenger artifacts which gives you higher chances of finding ammo pickups...if you haven't noticed, also, the Boar does A LOT less damage then the Hek, the Hek is the strongest shotgun right now, the Boar is the weakest...All this applies to rifles, shotguns and pistols. You can check out the Wiki to get a better understanding and learn to be efficient with your mods and artifacts if you want to enjoy your auto weapons more (:

[Zyfe3rX]

Get a viper, put 100% multi 200% (or 100% dmg) 90% max ammo.... and also use Pistol Scav .... Rock all the way.

 

I do agree with shotgun max ammo and ammo per clip... The mod is crap atm, it should be fixed !

[Zeunchainn]

Funny how people tell me to boost damage mod and scavenger artifact to make a weapon ammo efficient.

Sorry but I prefer to do the same for a weapon that is already ammo efficient.So I won't need to waste my artifact slot for scav and focus on more damage on my already ammo efficient weapon.

[Zeunchainn]

45 extra shells on a Boar can go a long way, it seems you aren't modding your weapons right if you're complaining about their ammo cap and ammo pickup count...I have Twin Vipers with only a Lv5 "Trick Mag" and mods to tear through enemies, I can go with my vipers an entire mission, if not almost 85-90% of a mission without running out of ammo. On top of mods there's also the scavenger artifacts which gives you higher chances of finding ammo pickups...if you haven't noticed, also, the Boar does A LOT less damage then the Hek, the Hek is the strongest shotgun right now, the Boar is the weakest...All this applies to rifles, shotguns and pistols. You can check out the Wiki to get a better understanding and learn to be efficient with your mods and artifacts if you want to enjoy your auto weapons more (:

No offense but your post is pretty pointless.

You are probly playing low level if you can complete a mission without running out of ammo with only trick mag and puncture on viper.Or your teammates are doing most of the damage.

Try to solo high level boss then you'll know what I'm talking about.

I can solo most boss with Strun without ever starving ammo while Boar require your entire ammo stock to take out one 3rd hp of that same Boss with the exact same mods than strun.

 

Strun is already ammo efficient and require to spec on damage mods to be more ammo efficient and just more efficient overall.

Boar require to spec on ammo mods , damage mods and scavenger artifact to be half as ammo efficient than strun.

 

Also you're stating in your post that Boar does a lot less damage than Hek.Yes it does less damage and has the same amount of ammo.That's what I mean by "not ammo efficient".What's your point?

[OrtuOcelot]

No offense but your post is pretty pointless.

You are probly playing low level if you can complete a mission without running out of ammo with only trick mag and puncture on viper.Or your teammates are doing most of the damage.

Try to solo high level boss then you'll know what I'm talking about.

I can solo most boss with Strun without ever starving ammo while Boar require your entire ammo stock to take out one 3rd hp of that same Boss with the exact same mods than strun.

 

Strun is already ammo efficient and require to spec on damage mods to be more ammo efficient and just more efficient overall.

Boar require to spec on ammo mods , damage mods and scavenger artifact to be half as ammo efficient than strun.

 

Also you're stating in your post that Boar does a lot less damage than Hek.Yes it does less damage and has the same amount of ammo.That's what I mean by "not ammo efficient".What's your point?

Yeah because Eris and Pluto are low level, think again highspeed. First off, why would I use a pistol to solo a boss? Makes no sense...if I solo bosses I want to do it quick, that's why I have a Hek...and again... the Boar's base damage is only 72...it starts off weaker than the Strun and the Hek, of course it's going to take long to take down a boss, let alone a high level boss ¬.¬ common sense sure eluded you.

I made the statement because you were comparing how many shots it took to defeat an enemy with a Hek opposed to a Boar...my point is, why compare them when talking about ammo efficiency if common sense dictates an auto shotgun will suffer while a semi-auto will stand a better chance of lasting you an entire mission (solo or otherwise)? But that's where I'm drawing my line, with people like you, there's no reasoning.

[Guest]

Yeah because Eris and Pluto are low level, think again highspeed. First off, why would I use a pistol to solo a boss? Makes no sense...if I solo bosses I want to do it quick, that's why I have a Hek...and again... the Boar's base damage is only 72...it starts off weaker than the Strun and the Hek, of course it's going to take long to take down a boss, let alone a high level boss ¬.¬ common sense sure eluded you.

I made the statement because you were comparing how many shots it took to defeat an enemy with a Hek opposed to a Boar...my point is, why compare them when talking about ammo efficiency if common sense dictates an auto shotgun will suffer while a semi-auto will stand a better chance of lasting you an entire mission (solo or otherwise)? But that's where I'm drawing my line, with people like you, there's no reasoning.

I think he's talking more about balance

The Hek is superior and the some other weapons are a waste of time

Thats what I think he's saying at least

[NydusTemplar]

This probably is most acute with Afuris as far as I've seen.  I made a thread (in the wrong forum) about this.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/27573-afuris/

 

Basically, yeah, the Afuris (and probably the Vipers) need about +50% reserve ammo by default.  All the Akimbo guns could probably use this.  I haven't messed with the Boar yet, though.  You might be able to make it work with the extra reserve mods on that weapon, but I won't say anything definitive yet.  By comparison, look at the Braton.  It has a reserve capacity of over 10 times it clip size, and though it can run dry with lots of hard fighting, in the end, its enough to last most of a level.

 

I'm not even buying the notion of 'these weapons need ammo limitations or they'll be too powerful'.  That's nonsense.  There are plenty of weapons which destroy everything without ammo issues.  However, I don't think a weapon has to last an entire level, it just has to last a significant portion of one.  Running dry with alot of hard fighting in a row is perfectly acceptable to me, but running dry in approximately 30 seconds of use is just too much.

[Zeunchainn]

Yeah because Eris and Pluto are low level, think again highspeed. First off, why would I use a pistol to solo a boss? Makes no sense...if I solo bosses I want to do it quick, that's why I have a Hek...and again... the Boar's base damage is only 72...it starts off weaker than the Strun and the Hek, of course it's going to take long to take down a boss, let alone a high level boss ¬.¬ common sense sure eluded you.

I made the statement because you were comparing how many shots it took to defeat an enemy with a Hek opposed to a Boar...my point is, why compare them when talking about ammo efficiency if common sense dictates an auto shotgun will suffer while a semi-auto will stand a better chance of lasting you an entire mission (solo or otherwise)? But that's where I'm drawing my line, with people like you, there's no reasoning.

You're funny guy.Look at your post you said it yourself that you can use Viper to complete any mission.Then you ask me why you would do this?I don't know funny guy.

You think 45 extra shell on boar can go a long way?Guess what 45 extra shell on strun and Hek can go an even longer way.

Why common sense would dictate an auto shotgun should suffer and semi auto should last entire mission?

If you make an auto shotgun it shouldn't have the ammo characteristic of a semi auto obviously.

The auto shotgun do less damage per bullet and consume more ammo.Common sense would dictate to adjust ammo stats so this weapon is not complete waste of time.

You contradict youself so many time.

First you say you can complete any mission with Viper.

Then you say you are unlikely to do a boss with pistol.

Then you say you won't use Boar but Hek to do a boss.

So if you can't do a boss with Boar and can't do it with pistol.Then there is no room to use a boar at all.

You argument to tell me I'm wrong are kind of demonstrating my point.I think you you're the one not reasoning here.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Zeunchainn

[lncarnation]

Boar is a low level no recipe shotgun... Hek is the only rank 4 weapon... why should they be on equal playing fields?

[matrixEXO]

Boar is a low level no recipe shotgun... Hek is the only rank 4 weapon... why should they be on equal playing fields?

TBH, yes. I want my weapons to have a balance. Not when one is definitely overpowering the other in terms of raw capabilities. Modding a weapon thereafter should affect the balance but is the least of my concern since I prefer talking about the raw stats/capabilities.

As for the reason why, it's because I don't want to play a "this is my ultimate loadout" class like all other MMORPGs where people stick with END-GAME (ultimate, most powerful, etc etc etc) gears only. Geez, can we stop having the "one and only" type of weapons in this game as well?

Edited April 18, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Zeunchainn]

Boar is a low level no recipe shotgun... Hek is the only rank 4 weapon... why should they be on equal playing fields?

So the game don't offer the player to use a weapon that is currently unusable.

Beside Strun is still 10 time better than Boar and as low level.

Making boar ammo efficient won't make these weapon on equal level.Boar will still have less dps and have more spread and less accuracy on will still be useless at mid-long range.

When beating down and Ancient require half of my ammo stock  and being in close range to limit the spread with boar and only 3 shot with Hek being at mid range.That's a bit too much of a difference.Now on high level when there's 3 ancients per room Boar is just unusable.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Zeunchainn

[lncarnation]

TBH, yes. I want my weapons to have a balance. Not when one is definitely overpowering the other in terms of raw capabilities. Modding a weapon thereafter should affect the balance but is the least of my concern since I prefer talking about the raw stats/capabilities.

As for the reason why, it's because I don't want to play a "this is my ultimate loadout" class like all other MMORPGs where people stick with END-GAME (ultimate, most powerful, etc etc etc) gears only. Geez, can we stop having the "one and only" type of weapons in this game as well?

Sounds like you want it to be a lot closer to call of duty(not saying you actually like the game, it's just a common example), where you can win with the low level guns, and the high level guns.. Popular guns exist but there is some level of balance that allows you to use low. I understand variety but I think tiers should still have higher priority. maybe guns like the boar but stronger in the future. But I don't think all guns should be made equal.

[lncarnation]

So the game don't offer the player to use a weapon that is currently unusable.

Beside Strun is still 10 time better than Boar and as low level.

Making boar ammo efficient won't make these weapon on equal level.Boar will still have less dps and have more spread and less accuracy on will still be useless at mid-long range.

When beating down and Ancient require half of my ammo stock  and being in close range to limit the spread with boar and only 3 shot with Hek being at mid range.That's a bit too much of a difference.Now on high level when there's 3 ancients per room Boar is just unusable.

That is a more fair judgement and evaluation, It should not be lower value to the strun for very good reasoning. My statement was not that the boar shouldn't receive a buffer, but that it should not be equal to the only rank 4 weapon in the game.

[matrixEXO]

Sounds like you want it to be a lot closer to call of duty(not saying you actually like the game, it's just a common example), where you can win with the low level guns, and the high level guns.. Popular guns exist but there is some level of balance that allows you to use low. I understand variety but I think tiers should still have higher priority. maybe guns like the boar but stronger in the future. But I don't think all guns should be made equal.

 Yup. What I actually want to see are jack-of-all-trade weapons as low-ranked weapons while more specialized weapons (like the uber high damage Hek trading off it's ammo cap) as high-ranked weapons. That should allow them to be used in all maps on an almost even playing field. Edited April 18, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Zeunchainn]

TBH, yes. I want my weapons to have a balance. Not when one is definitely overpowering the other in terms of raw capabilities. Modding a weapon thereafter should affect the balance but is the least of my concern since I prefer talking about the raw stats/capabilities.

As for the reason why, it's because I don't want to play a "this is my ultimate loadout" class like all other MMORPGs where people stick with END-GAME (ultimate, most powerful, etc etc etc) gears only. Geez, can we stop having the "one and only" type of weapons in this game as well?

Exactly.Right now most high level are using Hek because it outclass other shotgun and almost any other rifle in most situation.It just kill faster, mod are more efficient due to it's better base stats, and better ammo economy than other shotgun and most rifle.The only downside is that it's bad at long range.But gorgon is bad at long range.Burst weapon are even worste at long range and force you to spend ammo inefficiently on none headshot.Long range situation almost never exist against infested so it's not even a downside against one faction.

 

I'd like that weapon choice is more about flavor and playstyle rather than having no choice but using that best weapon of the game.

Just like Warframe suit.You balance warframe to be rather equal on power but having different use and playstyle rahter than making a rank progression till you can buy the best warframe or else everyone would have the best warframe and the best weapon then we're all the same.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Zeunchainn

[matrixEXO]

 

Exactly.Right now most high level are using Hek because it outclass other shotgun and almost any other rifle in most situation.It just kill faster, mod are more efficient due to it's better base stats, and better ammo economy than other shotgun and most rifle.The only downside is that it's bad at long range.But gorgon is bad at long range.Burst weapon are even worste at long range and force you to spend ammo inefficiently on none headshot.Long range situation almost never exist against infested so it's not even a downside against one faction.

 

I'd like that weapon choice is more about flavor and playstyke rather than having no choice but using that best weapon of the game.

Just one thing. Don't diss my Gorgon. She can shoot a Corpus bucket head from one end of a room to the other easily. Just aim right.

[lncarnation]

 Yup. What I actually want to see are jack-of-all-trade weapons as low-ranked weapons while more specialized weapons (like the uber high damage Hek trading off it's ammo cap) as high-ranked weapons. That should allow them to be used in all maps on an almost even playing field.

You have the free right to think that way and I am in no way or form telling anyone that my way of thinking is superior, and I will not use the excuse that the hek should be the end all gun that the entire world uses simply because it has a high tier. My way of thinking is, that guns should be balanced based on the tier it has. So I respectfully understand your points, but we don't share the same opinion. Such is life.

[Ced23Ric]

No offense but your post is pretty pointless. You are probly playing low level if you can complete a mission without running out of ammo with only trick mag and puncture on viper. Or your teammates are doing most of the damage. Try to solo high level boss then you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

I can solo Pluto missions with Dual Staple Guns without an ammobox. :)

[matrixEXO]

 

You have the free right to think that way and I am in no way or form telling anyone that my way of thinking is superior, and I will not use the excuse that the hek should be the end all gun that the entire world uses simply because it has a high tier. My way of thinking is, that guns should be balanced based on the tier it has. So I respectfully understand your points, but we don't share the same opinion. Such is life.

Aye, life.

[Zeunchainn]

You have the free right to think that way and I am in no way or form telling anyone that my way of thinking is superior, and I will not use the excuse that the hek should be the end all gun that the entire world uses simply because it has a high tier. My way of thinking is, that guns should be balanced based on the tier it has. So I respectfully understand your points, but we don't share the same opinion. Such is life.

I understand that some weapon may be slightly stronger upgraded version of lower tier but low tier weapon shouldn't be dead end at on point of the game.