Player-Driven Credits To/from Platinum Exchange

[Satori_Mind]

As I said in the opening post - I'm terrible with economics. I have no plans to balance the supply and the demand of credits and platinum, and I have no plans to pretend that I do. This is an option. If DE does it, it'll be their job to create a demand for platinum.

 

 

There is already sufficient demand for platinum.  Just look at the many, many threads like this one which pop up every day.  People want the benefits of platinum.

[Zekarus]

There is already sufficient demand for platinum.  Just look at the many, many threads like this one which pop up every day.  People want the benefits of platinum.

 

Supply and demand of credits and platinum.

credits and platinum.

 

This proposed system requires supply and demand of both.

 

Furthermore, to keep up the revenue, this has to be maintained.

 

 

As I said in the opening post - I'm terrible with economics. I have no plans to balance the supply and the demand of credits and platinum,

 

Sometimes I wonder if people choose to not think about the context of a topic before typing out whatever they want to dribble out.

[Venarge]

Yes.

Leagues of Legends. -EVERYTHING- the game provides you, you can gain by farming in-game matches. The only exception is champion skins, which are purely cosmetical. Yet the game has a huge revenue and they never had to make any chances to this basic system. In fact, I know several people who spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars/euros/pounds on the game, either by buying skins, some packs, or insta-buy some champions as soon as they came out.

LOTRO allows you to gain some of the "premium" currency if you do some special missions, which very often involve you to farm a lot of enemies or deeply explore every bit of the map. If you subscribe to them you get some of the currency monthly, but even entirely F2P characters have a possibility to play and have access to some of the premium currency. The game also seems to be working fine to me and without many problems.

EDIT:

Blacklight Retribution is another good example. It's a system extremly similar to Warframe - You can gain access to some weapons, weapon types and customisations by paying with their premiumc urrency, but you can access them by levelling and buying them with the normal currency as well.

LOL:

 

Not compareable since they have 12 million users...

 

 

LOTRO:

 

You compare a game with Warframe that has premium items.

Warframe only has slots(Which are worked on) and potatoes(Can be optained during playing)

 

 

BlACKLIGHT:

Same as LOTRO... They have premium item you can only get with premium currency.

Warframe gives you every item(expect slots right now) by playing. There is no need to give away free premium currency because of the lack of premium only content....

[Satori_Mind]

Supply and demand of credits and platinum.

credits and platinum.

 

This proposed system requires supply and demand of both.

 

Furthermore, to keep up the revenue, this has to be maintained.

 

There is currently an endless and unquenchable demand for credits.  Warframe is very good about money sinks right now.  Blueprints, foundry expenses, fusion.  Credits are always being removed from the game.  You just don't want to shell out and support DE, dude.

[Zekarus]

BlACKLIGHT:

Same as LOTRO... They have premium item you can only get with premium currency.

Warframe gives you every item(expect slots right now) by playing. There is no need to give away free premium currency because of the lack of premium only content....

 

I'm only going to comment on this because that's all I've played.

 

The "premium item" you can only get is loadout slots (analogous to Warframe or Inventory slots) and camouflages (cosmetic), whi... No, you are correct, I recall elemental magazines being Zen-only to perm.

 

I still don't get how this relates to "Zombie Studios is still in business with (probable) income despite having an F2P game that has almost no premium content, since pretty much everything is purchasable with in-game currency like Warframe" discussion. That game is a possible example of a (moderately?) successful F2P game that maintains an income source and is relatively free of P2W. Why can't Blacklight be the same?

 

 

 

There is currently an endless and unquenchable demand for credits.  Warframe is very good about money sinks right now.  Blueprints, foundry expenses, fusion.  Credits are always being removed from the game.  You just don't want to shell out and support DE, dude.

I too, have "Founders" pack, whatever it's worth. Hunter. I have a full-time job and playing games is my primary source of entertainment. The whole "going out to movies", "going out to a pub", "getting cable TV" goes to my video games budget.

 

Now you just sound petty and insecure.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[AndryB94]

LOL:

 

Not compareable since they have 12 million users...

 

 

LOTRO:

 

You compare a game with Warframe that has premium items.

Warframe only has slots(Which are worked on) and potatoes(Can be optained during playing)

 

 

BlACKLIGHT:

Same as LOTRO... They have premium item you can only get with premium currency.

Warframe gives you every item(expect slots right now) by playing. There is no need to give away free premium currency because of the lack of premium only content....

As far as I am concerned, Colour palettes and Sentinel (cosmetical) customisations are also Platinum-only. In Blacklight you have weapon tags (which you can still find and earn) and colour schemes, everything else is available by credits. Unless my memory is playing tricks on me.

LoL might have 12 million players now, but how do you think they started off, with 10 million players? They clearly started similarily to Warframe, with probably limited funds and a limited playerbase, and IIRC the premium system was just as it is right now.

LOTRO, at least, gives you the chance to earn some premium currency via hard work. And trust me, even I (a MMO player) didn't want to do some of the farmy quests to get the coins.

 

 

There is currently an endless and unquenchable demand for credits.  Warframe is very good about money sinks right now.  Blueprints, foundry expenses, fusion.  Credits are always being removed from the game.  You just don't want to shell out and support DE, dude.

I know it may sound a bit like too much, but I can also support the game without paying - in theory, you could pay 250$ and then just play, or you could not pay anything but provide useful feedback, suggestions, discussions in topics like these. Hell, maybe if you fit some of their criteria and requirements you could even be hired by them - and all of this without spending a single penny.

[AndryB94]

 No, you are correct, I recall elemental magazines being Zen-only to perm.

 

You can still temporary-buy some weapons with elemental clips being in them. Also, elemental clips usually don't offer an all-out advantage, rather they tend to give you a bonus with some drawbacks.

[Satori_Mind]

I know it may sound a bit like too much, but I can also support the game without paying - in theory, you could pay 250$ and then just play, or you could not pay anything but provide useful feedback, suggestions, discussions in topics like these. Hell, maybe if you fit some of their criteria and requirements you could even be hired by them - and all of this without spending a single penny.

 

Hopes, dreams and unicorn farts won't pay the bills.

[Zekarus]

You can still temporary-buy some weapons with elemental clips being in them. Also, elemental clips usually don't offer an all-out advantage, rather they tend to give you a bonus with some drawbacks.

 

Yes, but permanent versions are still Zen-only. I was going to say "zero premium-only things apart from cosmetics, period! nothing game-changing!" but that wouldn't be the case.

 

I'm not a nice person. Least I could do is not mislead people.

 

 

Hopes, dreams and unicorn farts won't pay the bills.

 

 

And should he choose to purchase platinum and create a (small) demand for it on this theorized market, he would have indirectly contributed to DE's funds.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[AndryB94]

Hopes, dreams and unicorn farts won't pay the bills.

Nor will an unpleasant behaviour and an elitist attitude.

Edited April 20, 2013 by AndryB94

[Satori_Mind]

Nor will an unpleasant behaviour and an elitist attitude.

 

Welcome to Earth, buddy.

[Zekarus]

Nor will an unpleasant behaviour and an elitist attitude.

 

Unpleasant and elitist people can have enough money that people will suck it up in real life. This self-entitlement generally doesn't carry over very well on the Internet.

[AndryB94]

Welcome to Earth, buddy.

That's... Exactly my point.

Sigh.

 

 

Unpleasant and elitist people can have enough money that people will suck it up in real life. This self-entitlement generally doesn't carry over very well on the Internet.

Yeah, I get your point. Still, if you think of it, elitist communities are usually not really liked in almost every videogame, and almost every context. Even in roleplaying communities elitists are often frowned upon. Just saying. :P

I may be elitist-ic in some things, but I usually try and help people and be friendly... When possible.

Edited April 20, 2013 by AndryB94

[Datasaur]

In game market is cool and may boost the game. But there are huge risks with it. Prices may deflate completely and economy crash forcing a complete reboot and perhaps destroy the player base. Also with monetary possibilities comes nastiness with hackers and greed. It can be done and be a huge success but can also be very dangerous.

[Zekarus]

That's... Exactly my point.

Sigh.

 

I've come to the conclusion that his argument consists of "I GAVE MONEY TO DE! I SHOULD HAVE ALL THE STUFFS! STAY AWAY FROM MY PRECIOUS!" and not much more. I would move on to spend time making thoughtful responses to people who do deserve it.

 

 

In game market is cool and may boost the game. But there are huge risks with it. Prices may deflate completely and economy crash forcing a complete reboot and perhaps destroy the player base. Also with monetary possibilities comes nastiness with hackers and greed. It can be done and be a huge success but can also be very dangerous.

 

Of course it has the risks. A complete free market may (or may not - I'm not an economist) be a terrible idea. But the spirit of these mechanics is to provide F2P-ers with a means to get platinum by exchanging their earnt credits with platinum other people have bought. Making content more available without making them actually free.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[Venarge]

Of course it has the risks. A complete free market may (or may not - I'm not an economist) be a terrible idea. But the spirit of these mechanics is to provide F2P-ers with a means to get platinum by exchanging their earnt credits with platinum other people have bought. Making content more available without making them actually free.

 

 A trade system will most likely be added in U8.

But I dont see any Plat trade allowed.

I think the trading system itself will give most of the people enough freedom to sell/buy catalyst BPs and other stuff.

And if they add slots to the free to play stuff, everything will be covered that is actually usefull.

Since I have enough catas and reacts, I make a thread when the trade thing starts and will most likely give them away for free to people who are not that fortune.....

 

 

All in all, I dont see why they should give away the plat for free since people can already get almost everything and trading will make this even more easy.  But thats just my OP.....

Edited April 20, 2013 by Venarge

[Satori_Mind]

 

I've come to the conclusion that his argument consists of "I GAVE MONEY TO DE! I SHOULD HAVE ALL THE STUFFS! STAY AWAY FROM MY PRECIOUS!" and not much more. I would move on to spend time making thoughtful responses to people who do deserve it.

 

I can do that too.  "THAT GUY HAS AN ALL BLACK WARFRAME!  WHY CAN'T I DO THAT?  WHERE ARE MY POTATOES?"

 

I'm not at all above being completely childish.

[AndryB94]

 A trade system will most likely be added in U8.

But I dont see any Plat trade allowed.

I think the trading system itself will give most of the people enough freedom to sell/buy catalyst BPs and other stuff.

And if they add slots to the free to play stuff, everything will be covered that is actually usefull.

Since I have enough catas and reacts, I make a thread when the trade thing starts and will most likely give them away for free to people who are not that fortune.....

 

 

All in all, I dont see why they should give away the plat for free since people can already get almost everything and trading will make this even more easy.  But thats just my OP.....

In fact, I'm not too much for trading platinum in *directly*, at least not for now. But since some items are far cheaper with platinum, both time-wise and money-wise, than they are with credits (in fact, almost all of them, but especially potatoes, sentinels and some frames) somebody may have a huge profit by buying one of them and selling them for credits (for example an Excalibur frame, if somebody didn't pick Excalibur as his starter, because his blueprints drop from one of the hardest bosses in the game... I think.)

 

[Zekarus]

 A trade system will most likely be added in U8.

But I dont see any Plat trade allowed.

I think the trading system itself will give most of the people enough freedom to sell/buy catalyst BPs and other stuff.

And if they add slots to the free to play stuff, everything will be covered that is actually usefull.

Since I have enough catas and reacts, I make a thread when the trade thing starts and will most likely give them away for free to people who are not that fortune.....

 

 

All in all, I dont see why they should give away the plat for free since people can already get almost everything and trading will make this even more easy.  But thats just my OP.....

 

Perhaps there's something you are not understanding. This should be player-driven.

 

I presume, when you say "they [should not be giving out free platinum", you mean DE. No. They won't be giving free platinum.

 

Please allow me to explain this again.

 

a) This exchange will be between players.

b) This means that when someone wants to buy platinum with credits, they will have to list a buy order someone will have to meet (someone with platinum agreeing to sell it at that price), or meet an existing sell order (someone with platinum offering to sell at that price).

c) Also the other way round, when someone wants to sell platinum for credits.

 

 

I can do that too.  "THAT GUY HAS AN ALL BLACK WARFRAME!  WHY CAN'T I DO THAT?  WHERE ARE MY POTATOES?"

 

I'm not at all above being completely childish.

 

I'm going to assume you didn't manage to read one of my other replies. I also have the "Founder", whatever it's worth. Hunter package. I have no issues with money now. I've gotten past the stage of life where I'm starving and need to live on free sausages given out in university events. My entertainment budget consist of "video games" and "video game related investments", rather than the whole "night out at the movies", "night out at the pub", and so on. Don't have a car, but I have a house, and a steady income.

 

Now my life story is done, I'd like to consider my credentials established. I am a working man with disposable income, working a white-collar job with university education.

 

I propose this because I remember the time when I didn't have the luxury, and because I remember the time when everything you accuse me of was true, and think that just because I had to swim through a river of S#&$ with a carrot attached to my back, not everybody should.

 

You, on the other hand, really do seem to have the petty and insecure mentality of "I PAID FOR MY STUFFS YOU PLEBIANS STAY AWAY!"

 

I have taken your opinions into account. Please go away. Successful troll is successful. I feel like I have lost brain cells talking to you.

[Satori_Mind]

I love you too, man.

 

Perhaps there's something you are not understanding. This should be player-driven.

 

I presume, when you say "they [should not be giving out free platinum", you mean DE. No. They won't be giving free platinum.

 

Please allow me to explain this again.

 

a) This exchange will be between players.

b) This means that when someone wants to buy platinum with credits, they will have to list a buy order someone will have to meet (someone with platinum agreeing to sell it at that price), or meet an existing sell order (someone with platinum offering to sell at that price).

c) Also the other way round, when someone wants to sell platinum for credits.

 

This isn't happening because DE gains nothing from it.  Platinum enter the market when players buy them.  Platinum leave the market when players spend them.  Platinum buying between players would throw the whole thing out the window.  This isn't that kind of game.

 

e: Oops.  Credits aren't platinum.

Edited April 20, 2013 by FloofyRedTail

[AndryB94]

This isn't happening because DE gains nothing from it.  Platinum enter the market when players buy them.  Platinum leave the market when players spend them.  Platinum buying between players would throw the whole thing out the window.  This isn't that kind of game.

 

e: Oops.  Credits aren't platinum.

Which part of what Zekarus said you don't understand?

There won't be any *generated* Platinum. All the platinum that will be on the market will have to be bought from somebody. It basically means "Okay, I bought 150 platinum for whatever the price is. I don't really want to use the platinum, I want credits, so I am going to sell this platinum for, say, 200k credits.". Whether this platinum is sold for credits or used in the game, it doesn't matter. DE will still have earned the money for the purchase of that 150 platinum.

Edited April 20, 2013 by AndryB94

[Venarge]

Perhaps there's something you are not understanding. This should be player-driven.

 

I presume, when you say "they [should not be giving out free platinum", you mean DE. No. They won't be giving free platinum.

 

 

Sorry that I made this sentence so unclear ^^

With free plat, I meant that they shouldnt add plat trading since this would lead to exploits ^^

I know what you mean and how you want to implement it :D

[Satori_Mind]

Nope.  It's considered a financial loss.  Instead of buying platinum with cash, a player will grind out the credits to buy in-game.  Not all of those buyers will even have the capability to buy platinum with cash, but many will.  Whose problem is it if you buy too much in the first place?

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to the possibility of gifting things to clanmates as part of contests and raffles.  Would be pretty sweet.

[Zekarus]

I love you too, man.

 

 

This isn't happening because DE gains nothing from it.  Credits enter the market when players buy them.  Credits leave the market when players spend them.  Platinum buying between players would throw the whole thing out the window.  This isn't that kind of game.

 

Thank you. Now that you actually have made a statement that is actually worth thinking about, I'd like to ask you to elaborate further. I'd also like to apologize for that downvote, if you care about those things. That post was actually worth an upvote.

 

In the games where such system has been established - using Guild Wars 2 and Star Trek Online as an example, as I've played them for more than 6 months - the idea is that they contribute to additional platinum being purchased, probably to sell off. Perhaps players purchasing and selling off platinum for a quick boost to cash. Perhaps buying or selling off the odd platinum.

 

Platinum will have to be purchased anyway to be listed. People who choose to purchase platinum probably do so to spend it (or hoard it; capitalism, ho).

 

As long as the demand is there, and as long as the platinum is worth selling at the market price, there will be people who purchase platinum just to sell off for the quick buck. That's what the market caters to, from a business point of view.

 

It's 3.40am, but I've done my best to try explain how this works. I'd also like to ask why exactly you think it won't work.

 

 

 

Sorry that I made this sentence so unclear ^^

With free plat, I meant that they shouldnt add plat trading since this would lead to exploits ^^

I know what you mean and how you want to implement it :D

 

Simple fix, for example, again, could be:

a) start with 50 plat.

b) minimum amount to sell must be 51 plat.

 

That's one fix to the potential exploit you mentioned, albeit a half-assed one. I have a distinct feeling free 50 plat may be gone by the end of beta. Most beta do give out free premium currency to test things. But then, this is a soft-launch. Not sure if devs said anything about it.

 

 

Nope.  It's considered a financial loss.  Instead of buying platinum with cash, a player will grind out the credits to buy in-game.  Not all of those buyers will even have the capability to buy platinum with cash, but many will.  Whose problem is it if you buy too much in the first place?

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to the possibility of gifting things to clanmates as part of contests and raffles.  Would be pretty sweet.

 

Not a loss. The people who will buy plat will still be there, but this should open at least one other revenue - people who will buy plat for the purpose of selling.

 

Competition determines the price. Too many F2Pers trying to buy plat with credits should drive the prices up, and vice versa, right up until it's not worth it, and bring the price back down. There will only be so much plat (and credits) floating in the market.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Zekarus

[AndryB94]

Nope.  It's considered a financial loss.  Instead of buying platinum with cash, a player will grind out the credits to buy in-game.  Not all of those buyers will even have the capability to buy platinum with cash, but many will.  Whose problem is it if you buy too much in the first place?

I have the impression you still don't get it. So I am going to take a break because I am tired, and I suggest you do the same. Perhaps re-read this whole topic while you're at it, mate.