[Opinion] A Quick Spheel On Shotgun Mechanics/falloff

[Arabaxus]

Preface: So I've been playing Payday 2, and trying out the shotguns in that game, which indeed have damage falloff. However, they are not nearly as underwhelming in comparison to other weapon selections as shotguns are in Warframe, and I was quite intrigued when I discovered how shotguns actually worked in Payday 2.

 

Mechanics: (http://payday.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons_(Payday_2)'>Payday Wiki Page)

 

Here's how shotguns work in Payday 2, besides from the self-explanatory and obvious things like ammunition and reload.

 

Shotgun Falloff: Shotguns deal 100% damage for the first x metres and fall off to 0% at y metres. For example, the Raven Shotgun deals 100% damage out to 8 metres and drops off (I assume with a linear fashion) until at 20 metres, where the bullets deal 0% damage, effectively ceasing to exist.

 

Special ammunition types (Flechette and Armor-Piercing Slugs in this case) can extend these ranges as the cost of other stats.

 

This is nothing special, though I do think Shotguns would benefit in variety if different ammunition types were introduced. However, using special ammunition types also reduces your rate to pick up ammunition from fallen enemies. Rate of reduction I am not sure, but regardless of what special ammunition type you select, the rate reduces compared to using default ammunition.

 

Headshot Mechanics:

 

This is less shotgun exclusive and applies to all weapons. Normal Enemies usually take 2.5x extra damage when hit in the head, Specials (e.g. Cloakers) take 4-5x extra damage when hit in the head. Some armored enemies only take normalized damage when hit in the head and take reduced damage when hit in the body.

 

Now, I feel like having bigger headshot bonuses instead of higher raw damage, though Criticals are in this game, would reward precision gameplay more while not limiting it to Critical oriented gear. Also the idea of having greater bonuses for precision headshots on heavy enemies, and even slight penalties to non-headshots can further balance out what seems to be a mass majority favoring "spray and pray" styles rather than precise, calculated shots.

 

Here is the real content I wish to discuss here. 

 

Shotgun Pellet Mechanics:

 

Shotguns fire x pellets every time you pull the trigger. The aforementioned falloff mechanics are always in place. However, as long as a single pellet hits the enemy, the enemy takes full burst damage. Hitting more than one pellet does not deal extra damage. A single pellet hitting the head deals full headshot damage.

 

In other words, if my shotgun say deals 100 damage, hitting an enemy with 1 pellet will deal 100 damage, and hitting the same enemy with 2 will still deal 100 damage (assuming I am within the full damage range). If the enemy has a headshot multiplier of 4x, one pellet hitting the head deals 400 damage, and 3 pellets hitting the head also deals 400 damage.

 

This to me seems a lot better than our current system. First, you are not penalized twice when using shotguns at range, as you suffer from reduced damage from fall-off but not from pellet count. Meanwhile, you can opt to either make a precise shotgun with a smaller cone for more consistent hits at further ranges, or reduce the accuracy to increase the cone to capitalize on the ability to potentially hit more enemies at once at the cost of consistency at range. This also increase the CC capabilities of shotguns, as under our current system, if you wish to deal damage to multiple enemies at a time, you are forced to split your damage, as damage is calculated per pellet, unless you have Punch-Through, which still limits your CC capabilities to enemies conveniently standing in a straight line. 

 

Being both PvE games, featuring things such as regular versus heavy enemies, various weapon types, etc. I notice that shotguns in Payday 2 are actually respectable and comparable in performance to Primaries and Secondaries of other types (There are primary and secondary shotguns). Ammunition is actually of concern as well, not only with shotguns, but with all weapon types as well, making it less effective to simply hold down the trigger mowing everything down. Of course ammunition packs are class specific other than world spawns and greatly limited, so that is another story.

 

 

Long story short, I would ask that the developers consider a similar model when it comes time for the shotgun rework.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Arabaxus

[JakeRobber]

I suggested in the past to add mods that reduce damage falloff for shotguns.  I think that could work better than introducing a new ammo type like you're suggesting (though, it could work well if ammo types functioned similar to auras or stances).

 

I'm with you on the headshot mechanic suggestions.

 

As for the pellets, I like the way Warframe does it better than what you're suggesting.  The way it works now just seems more intuitive to me.

[HolidayPi3]

I suggested in the past to add mods that reduce damage falloff for shotguns.  I think that could work better than introducing a new ammo type like you're suggesting (though, it could work well if ammo types functioned similar to auras or stances).

 

I'm with you on the headshot mechanic suggestions.

 

As for the pellets, I like the way Warframe does it better than what you're suggesting.  The way it works now just seems more intuitive to me.

If DE were to delve into shotguns again, I'd rather have a straight up rework rather than another band-aid mod. Shotguns are already tied up for space with mods.

 

Fixing the problem with an actual mechanical change as opposed to fixing the symptoms with another mod is more appealing to me.

Of course, you never said that you were opposed to a straight up change, but I'd rather DE strayed away from making any more band-aids like handspring.

Edited October 21, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[Arabaxus]

I suggested in the past to add mods that reduce damage falloff for shotguns.  I think that could work better than introducing a new ammo type like you're suggesting (though, it could work well if ammo types functioned similar to auras or stances).

 

I'm with you on the headshot mechanic suggestions.

 

As for the pellets, I like the way Warframe does it better than what you're suggesting.  The way it works now just seems more intuitive to me.

 

Ammunition types don't only serve to increase the falloff as a primary function. They're more side functions of the ammunition types. AP Slugs fire only one bullet but have a chance to pierce armor on armored enemies and Shields, and Flechettes have the function sort of like Punch Through where they can pierce thin obstacles.